| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 01:10 AM |
DS class?
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i have a 03 wrx and i all i have done for now is a cold air intake, would i still be in DS or would that put me in another class?
| ms3p | 02-13-2005 01:14 AM |
Take the CAI off so you won't be slower than the rest of the people in your class.
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 01:17 AM |
id like to but i bought the car with the CAI already on and i didnt get the stocl box with it.
| ms3p | 02-13-2005 01:20 AM |
Especially in the winter there are the mandatory "I wrecked my WRX because the devil put RE92s on my car" threads at least once a day. Someone must have a stock airbox for sale.
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 02:04 AM |
but will it put me in another class out of DS?
| NegativeC | 02-13-2005 02:32 AM |
Yes it will move you to STX.
List of Legal Mods:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174189[/url]
Rule Book:
[url]http://scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2005SoloRules.pdf[/url]
List of Legal Mods:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174189[/url]
Rule Book:
[url]http://scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2005SoloRules.pdf[/url]
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 02:47 AM |
anyone wanna trade a stock air box for my CAI?
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 12:32 PM |
i see that if i get an aftermarket front sway bar that will still keep me in DS but do i need to keep the stock endlinks or can i get aftermarket endlinks and still stay in DS?
| neuspeed | 02-13-2005 01:00 PM |
You need stock endlinks for DS :)
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 01:09 PM |
are lowering springs legal in DS?
| rautox | 02-13-2005 01:23 PM |
The pax values for D stock and STX are very, very close. So far as overall classing's concerned, it just won't matter too much.
If you aren't running R compound tires [i]and[/i] you don't wanna swap anything out, don't. Just run STX.
If you aren't running R compound tires [i]and[/i] you don't wanna swap anything out, don't. Just run STX.
| ms3p | 02-13-2005 01:24 PM |
[QUOTE=bdicustoms]are lowering springs legal in DS?[/QUOTE]
DS=stock class
No, they are not legal in DS. It will bump you into STX.
DS=stock class
No, they are not legal in DS. It will bump you into STX.
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 02:18 PM |
what size and brand sway bar should i look into getting? i want to stay in DS so i cant get endlinks i guess but i want a good bar for auto x
| ExitVisa | 02-13-2005 03:25 PM |
Perrin and Cusco are the two most popular choices.
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 03:33 PM |
what size front sway bar should i get though?
| KC | 02-13-2005 03:57 PM |
Endlinks are part of the swaybar assembly AFAIK.
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 04:09 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Endlinks are part of the swaybar assembly AFAIK.[/QUOTE]
what do you mean?
what do you mean?
| KC | 02-13-2005 04:11 PM |
Endlinks for the front swaybar can be replaced I believe since they are considered part of the swaybar. It's been a while since I was in stock, but I am this year. :)
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 04:14 PM |
how much of a difference would replacing the endlinks make?
| rautox | 02-13-2005 04:33 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Endlinks for the front swaybar can be replaced I believe since they are considered part of the swaybar. It's been a while since I was in stock, but I am this year. :)[/QUOTE]
Replacing them's pretty common in stock (check any given MR2). But, now I can't find the justification for it in the rule book :confused:
So far as difference is concerned. About $100 ;)
Jokes aside, on some cars, a large front bar will uncover weaknesses in mounting points, end links, etc. Ask an experienced MR2 or S2000 driver about it. It's not pretty when things start tearing loose.
Replacing them's pretty common in stock (check any given MR2). But, now I can't find the justification for it in the rule book :confused:
So far as difference is concerned. About $100 ;)
Jokes aside, on some cars, a large front bar will uncover weaknesses in mounting points, end links, etc. Ask an experienced MR2 or S2000 driver about it. It's not pretty when things start tearing loose.
| leecea | 02-13-2005 09:09 PM |
If you have a sedan, don't worry about endlinks. The stock ones are already metal and have been OK for me.
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 09:24 PM |
yeah i have a sedan.
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 09:27 PM |
what size sway bar should i look at gettin, 21, 22, 24?
| arubus | 02-13-2005 09:37 PM |
get a monster FSB and heavy duty endlinks...and race tires.
"performance alignment"
Drop in a Green Airfilter/K&N
cat-back exhaust (so you can at least hear your motor and free it up a bit.)
Koni Sport strut inserts when your budget allows.
After that, drive, drive, drive....brake pads if your are frisky.
Godspeed.
--Wayne
"performance alignment"
Drop in a Green Airfilter/K&N
cat-back exhaust (so you can at least hear your motor and free it up a bit.)
Koni Sport strut inserts when your budget allows.
After that, drive, drive, drive....brake pads if your are frisky.
Godspeed.
--Wayne
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 10:00 PM |
do the tires have to be the same size as stock? because i was thinkin about getting the new azenis RT-615 - 205/40/16 for my stock wheels, would this be legal for DS?
| arubus | 02-13-2005 10:31 PM |
Yes, they have to fit on stock rim size without modifications to the fender within .25inches of the stock offset. 16x6.5 55mm offset is stock. You can go as far as a 49mm offset, but the stock wheels are plenty light and you can fit any tire on their pretty much.
Get as much tire on there as you can 225-50-16. It depends on how competetive you want to be. If anyone else in your class is running R-compounds then they will probably be faster, probably.
I ran 225-50-16 Kumho MXs on the stock rims for my daily driver for a while until I got some Rota Torques.
Get as much tire on there as you can 225-50-16. It depends on how competetive you want to be. If anyone else in your class is running R-compounds then they will probably be faster, probably.
I ran 225-50-16 Kumho MXs on the stock rims for my daily driver for a while until I got some Rota Torques.
| KC | 02-13-2005 10:34 PM |
[QUOTE=bdicustoms]do the tires have to be the same size as stock? because i was thinkin about getting the new azenis RT-615 - 205/40/16 for my stock wheels, would this be legal for DS?[/QUOTE]
Yes. Any size tire that fits on the stock sized rim.
Yes. Any size tire that fits on the stock sized rim.
| bdicustoms | 02-13-2005 10:37 PM |
would this be legal for DS? What would the overall diameter be?
| arubus | 02-13-2005 10:42 PM |
ANY size tire that will fit on the stock sized rim is DS legal. So yes.
| KoneKiller | 02-13-2005 11:50 PM |
If you are going to run Azenis, why not keep your car as is and run in STX?
To be competitive in DS, depending on the local competition, you will probably need R-compound tires.
To be competitive in DS, depending on the local competition, you will probably need R-compound tires.
| Scoobie Doogie | 02-14-2005 12:32 AM |
Evo Phase 1
Evo Phase 2
seat time, seat time, seat time, seat time, seat time........
BMF-FSB (24mm)
3" catback straight pipe or equivalent with muffler
1/8 toe out front
1/8-1/4 toe out rear
max neg camber with bolts up front
215/40/16 Kumho V710's
Koni struts (DA's, degassed 20% rebound increase if you can afford them)
or OTS Koni's
Do that and you'll win some events locally. Don't...you wont.
Dave
Evo Phase 2
seat time, seat time, seat time, seat time, seat time........
BMF-FSB (24mm)
3" catback straight pipe or equivalent with muffler
1/8 toe out front
1/8-1/4 toe out rear
max neg camber with bolts up front
215/40/16 Kumho V710's
Koni struts (DA's, degassed 20% rebound increase if you can afford them)
or OTS Koni's
Do that and you'll win some events locally. Don't...you wont.
Dave
| bdicustoms | 02-14-2005 01:13 AM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie]
215/40/16 Kumho V710's
[/QUOTE]
id love these but there a little out of my price range and my car is a daily driver so i need tires that are good auto x and daily driven tires.
215/40/16 Kumho V710's
[/QUOTE]
id love these but there a little out of my price range and my car is a daily driver so i need tires that are good auto x and daily driven tires.
| KoneKiller | 02-14-2005 02:16 AM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie]max neg camber with bolts up front
[/QUOTE]
As in camber bolts? When did they become legal in stock classes in the WRX?
[/QUOTE]
As in camber bolts? When did they become legal in stock classes in the WRX?
| afpdl | 02-14-2005 03:19 AM |
[QUOTE=KoneKiller]As in camber bolts? When did they become legal in stock classes in the WRX?[/QUOTE]
He means the stock camber bolts.
He means the stock camber bolts.
| arubus | 02-14-2005 08:50 AM |
Yeah, you should be able to get about 1degree neg. camber.
Thanks Subaru! I have the same problem in my Protege, except there is no camber adjustment from the bolts, but you can rotate the strut top mount to gain a little negative camber and better castor.
Thanks Subaru! I have the same problem in my Protege, except there is no camber adjustment from the bolts, but you can rotate the strut top mount to gain a little negative camber and better castor.
| DrBiggly | 02-14-2005 10:24 AM |
Unless one has a wagon, there is 0 need to replace the front endlinks. The stock front endlinks on a WRX are nice metal pillowballs. The wagon apparently has soft and cheap plastic endlinks (much like the rear on either car.)
bdicustoms,
If you have never run an event before then you're missing nothing. Just go to at least a couple of them before throwing money into the car and preparing for something that you have never done before. The driver is an overwhelmingly huge portion of what makes a car fast. Worry about the parts and toys later. :)
bdicustoms,
If you have never run an event before then you're missing nothing. Just go to at least a couple of them before throwing money into the car and preparing for something that you have never done before. The driver is an overwhelmingly huge portion of what makes a car fast. Worry about the parts and toys later. :)
| bdicustoms | 02-14-2005 12:30 PM |
I've been autocrossing for about 2 years with a honda but i just bought my wrx a few months ago, so no i havent autocrossed my wrx yet. i kinda know from the honda kinda what to expect but im tryin to get the best out of my car for the class i am in. im hoping to attend a evo phase 1 driving school in may and i hear that are worth every penny so we'll see.
| KoneKiller | 02-14-2005 01:49 PM |
BDI... that'd cool and whatever your reasons might be for wanting to be in DS, the WRX is not the most competitive car in the class (in my former experience) and it would seem to be a lot of work to return the car to DS spec and then run the wrong tires. Are there a lot more DS entrants than STX in your area?
| bdicustoms | 02-14-2005 02:26 PM |
i just assume that DS is a more entry less expensive class to run that STX (correct me if im wrong) it just seems like there are alot more things you can do in STX which = more money. Is this correct?
| DrBiggly | 02-14-2005 02:34 PM |
STX cars can be prepped for about $6000-8000 dollars (well-prepped on a Subaru anyway.)
For DS: Notably less. Besides, a good set of tires puts the times nearly on top of each other between the two classes (hence the very similar PAX.) :)
For DS: Notably less. Besides, a good set of tires puts the times nearly on top of each other between the two classes (hence the very similar PAX.) :)
| KC | 02-14-2005 02:47 PM |
[QUOTE=bdicustoms]i just assume that DS is a more entry less expensive class to run that STX (correct me if im wrong) it just seems like there are alot more things you can do in STX which = more money. Is this correct?[/QUOTE]
Are you running nationally or for the fun of it all? If you want to be competitive on the national level, EITHER class is going to be expensive.
To be compeitive nationally in DS, you're going to go through multiple sets of r-compounds, and going to need another set of wheels and better struts.
The big thing here in stock is the R-Compounds. Good for 1-2 seconds over good street tires (and this holds true for local events too). If someone shows up with a well prepped DS car on R's, and you don't have them... there's going to be nothing you can do being on street tires.
In STX, you can run street tires, and locally, you DON'T need to load your car up with mods. No R-Compounds allowed. It's a better class, IMHO, than stock on a local level becuase one or two things that get you kicked out of stock (springs, rear sway bar) are legal here.. .and you can be sort of competitive on street tires. :) But again, if a well prepped car shows up with a decent driver, you're not going to keep up.
Why won't you keep up in DS or STX? 1) Prep, 2) Driving experience. In both cases, a mildly prepped car, unless driven by someone who's doing well on the national level, may not be the fastest.
If you're in it just for the fun of spending a day with other car freaks... do what you want to the car... and run in the class the sum of the parts put you in. When you have some more seat time in the WRX, then start adding or deleting things. It's not the same as a Civic. ;)
Cost of entry in stock is the R-Compounds and suspension. Sure you can run your street tires, but you may not be competitive in your region when someone shows up on Rs.
Cost of entry in STX is the suspension. You can run your street tires with a couple mods and be competitive with the bulk of the people. Sure, there might be cars that are more prepped, but they're not going to walk you like in stock vs. r-compounds.
What I'm getting at is unless you're fully prepped to what the rules allowed, and someone that is showed up, you're behind the 8-ball. Many of us do this for fun and over time build the car and skills to make the car/driver a class winner. It sounds like you're putting too much into making the car fast, and not the driver.
If I were you... I'd run STX with what you have and save for the evo schools. Driver improvement is what makes cars fast... mods are a small part of the equasion. Give a good driver a medocre car, and he'd be fast. Give a good driver a prepped car, and he'll be just a little bit faster. ;)
--kC
Are you running nationally or for the fun of it all? If you want to be competitive on the national level, EITHER class is going to be expensive.
To be compeitive nationally in DS, you're going to go through multiple sets of r-compounds, and going to need another set of wheels and better struts.
The big thing here in stock is the R-Compounds. Good for 1-2 seconds over good street tires (and this holds true for local events too). If someone shows up with a well prepped DS car on R's, and you don't have them... there's going to be nothing you can do being on street tires.
In STX, you can run street tires, and locally, you DON'T need to load your car up with mods. No R-Compounds allowed. It's a better class, IMHO, than stock on a local level becuase one or two things that get you kicked out of stock (springs, rear sway bar) are legal here.. .and you can be sort of competitive on street tires. :) But again, if a well prepped car shows up with a decent driver, you're not going to keep up.
Why won't you keep up in DS or STX? 1) Prep, 2) Driving experience. In both cases, a mildly prepped car, unless driven by someone who's doing well on the national level, may not be the fastest.
If you're in it just for the fun of spending a day with other car freaks... do what you want to the car... and run in the class the sum of the parts put you in. When you have some more seat time in the WRX, then start adding or deleting things. It's not the same as a Civic. ;)
Cost of entry in stock is the R-Compounds and suspension. Sure you can run your street tires, but you may not be competitive in your region when someone shows up on Rs.
Cost of entry in STX is the suspension. You can run your street tires with a couple mods and be competitive with the bulk of the people. Sure, there might be cars that are more prepped, but they're not going to walk you like in stock vs. r-compounds.
What I'm getting at is unless you're fully prepped to what the rules allowed, and someone that is showed up, you're behind the 8-ball. Many of us do this for fun and over time build the car and skills to make the car/driver a class winner. It sounds like you're putting too much into making the car fast, and not the driver.
If I were you... I'd run STX with what you have and save for the evo schools. Driver improvement is what makes cars fast... mods are a small part of the equasion. Give a good driver a medocre car, and he'd be fast. Give a good driver a prepped car, and he'll be just a little bit faster. ;)
--kC
| KoneKiller | 02-14-2005 04:08 PM |
Hey BSI... I misread the thread.... I thought you already had springs. If all you have is the hot air intake, then the conversion to DS won't be that hard. Look into what your local area looks like competitively. You might find you do better in STX with no mods and street tires than you will in DS on street tires. They really do equal 2 seconds. Give some serious thought to playing a couple of events in STX to scope out the scene.
If you do go DS and have national aspirations, save your pennies for wheels and tires.
If you do go DS and have national aspirations, save your pennies for wheels and tires.
| bdicustoms | 02-14-2005 04:38 PM |
what is the difference in indexed times from DS to STX? and no i auto x locally not nationally but it bugs me when a stock sti beats everyone every auto x. he has been to a phase 1 evo school thats it. i just want to be more compeditive locally.
| KC | 02-14-2005 05:29 PM |
Concentrate on your class. The STi is in a different class all together. It's in a different class because it IS faster than many other cars out there. You want to beat an STi with a WRX? You can't unless the STi cones all his runs or is a bad driver.
Don't concentrate on what other people are doing... concentrate on what you need to do. Most of that IS driving better.
--kC
Don't concentrate on what other people are doing... concentrate on what you need to do. Most of that IS driving better.
--kC
| bdicustoms | 02-14-2005 07:03 PM |
yeah he will always beat me in raw times but indexed times is where i can make up the time. I know i need to worry about myself and how I run. What im sayin is what are the indexed times because if STX is indexed higher i have a crapier overall indexed time there for putting me at even more of a disatvantage to win. correct?
| leecea | 02-14-2005 09:34 PM |
DS = .796
STX = .802
So, DS gives you a 0.25 secs advantage in PAX on a 40 sec course.
STX = .802
So, DS gives you a 0.25 secs advantage in PAX on a 40 sec course.
| KC | 02-15-2005 08:44 AM |
[QUOTE=bdicustoms]yeah he will always beat me in raw times but indexed times is where i can make up the time. I know i need to worry about myself and how I run. What im sayin is what are the indexed times because if STX is indexed higher i have a crapier overall indexed time there for putting me at even more of a disatvantage to win. correct?[/QUOTE]
Yes. The higher the index, the tougher the class. But why are you concentrating on Index times right now? You said you autoexed the past couple years in your old car.. and you're saying you want to beat an STi... evidently by PAX. It's still not going to happen if the STi shows up on r-compounds. PAX factors in cars that are at their limit of preparation!
You're talking about fractions of a second here on a 60 second course.
If you had a 60 second run in any class, here's the results you'd have for each run:
STX: 48.12
DS: 47.76
Difference: .36 seconds. The guy in DS would have a .36 advantage. So in one respect, you're right, running in DS vs STX on Azenis will be better in DS if you're concerned with PAX.
However, if you throw a decent suspension on the car, you'd more than make up for the less than 1/2 second advantage on Azenis. But throw R compounds on a DS car and you'll leave everyone but the fully prepped DS cars and fully prepped STX cars in the dust. :)
Yes. The higher the index, the tougher the class. But why are you concentrating on Index times right now? You said you autoexed the past couple years in your old car.. and you're saying you want to beat an STi... evidently by PAX. It's still not going to happen if the STi shows up on r-compounds. PAX factors in cars that are at their limit of preparation!
You're talking about fractions of a second here on a 60 second course.
If you had a 60 second run in any class, here's the results you'd have for each run:
STX: 48.12
DS: 47.76
Difference: .36 seconds. The guy in DS would have a .36 advantage. So in one respect, you're right, running in DS vs STX on Azenis will be better in DS if you're concerned with PAX.
However, if you throw a decent suspension on the car, you'd more than make up for the less than 1/2 second advantage on Azenis. But throw R compounds on a DS car and you'll leave everyone but the fully prepped DS cars and fully prepped STX cars in the dust. :)
| KoneKiller | 02-15-2005 09:14 AM |
[QUOTE=bdicustoms]he has been to a phase 1 evo school thats it.[/QUOTE]
Huge upgrade!
Huge upgrade!
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