| wes | 12-27-2002 03:16 PM |
Explain to me the popularity of Auto-X
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I did some auto-x ing for a couple of years and was bored out of my mind! I would sit out at the track for 7-8 hrs just so I could run 4, maybe 6 1 minute laps. I dont get it. I switched to kart racing. Talk about track time!!!! You get 2 or 3 practice sessions of about 6 laps and then two 6-8 lap qualifyers and then a 6-8 lap final. This wasnt meant as a rip on auto-x, I just dont get it.
I could see it as a social event where you want to hang out with other car people, show off your cars and then run a few laps but for me the length of time sitting around wasnt worth the track time.
P.S. I did my share of cone counting and corner work
I could see it as a social event where you want to hang out with other car people, show off your cars and then run a few laps but for me the length of time sitting around wasnt worth the track time.
P.S. I did my share of cone counting and corner work
| KC | 12-27-2002 03:46 PM |
Then it wasn't for you. Oh well. :) Glad you found something that worked better for you.
Auto-xing isn't for everyone. That is for certain. One of the greatest challenges is beng able to walk the course, visualize it then go out and do what you visualize, making minor corrections at speed. You have only a few runs to get it right, and no course is the same week after week, so there's no 'learning the apexes'. :)
Especially for national events, it IS more about the friendship and commraderie that develops over the YEARS. Auto-x is a social event so to speak. :)
I mean, yeah, it is kinda nuts when you think about driving 4 days to Nationals, towing a car to a race with total seat time of about 6-8 minutes. But that's part of the allure. :D
--KC
Auto-xing isn't for everyone. That is for certain. One of the greatest challenges is beng able to walk the course, visualize it then go out and do what you visualize, making minor corrections at speed. You have only a few runs to get it right, and no course is the same week after week, so there's no 'learning the apexes'. :)
Especially for national events, it IS more about the friendship and commraderie that develops over the YEARS. Auto-x is a social event so to speak. :)
I mean, yeah, it is kinda nuts when you think about driving 4 days to Nationals, towing a car to a race with total seat time of about 6-8 minutes. But that's part of the allure. :D
--KC
| trhoppe | 12-27-2002 03:51 PM |
Keith is just crazy, I dunno what these fools are doing to drive 18 hours (each way) for 20 minutes of seat time (nationals)
:lol:
-Tom
:lol:
-Tom
| Big C | 12-27-2002 04:09 PM |
I have been battling the boredom aspect of autocross for awhile now......Spending an entire day for 4 60 second runs has become a bit hard to justify. Even worse are the events that cost $20-25 and give 3 40 second runs :rolleyes:
I have to admit that in the past 3 seasons I have learned alot from autocrossing. I really do believe it is a good way to learn car control, even if it is at relatively "low" speeds.
One thing that has concerned me lately though is that it can teach some bad habits as well, mainly driving for that one smoking run at the expense of consistency. The rallycross championship I help organize does 6 cumulative runs and I notice that autocrossers (including myself) generally have the hardest time putting in 6 consistently quick runs.
At this point I'm planning on sitting out the 2003 season, have to wait and see if the bug bites again as the season approaches.....
C
I have to admit that in the past 3 seasons I have learned alot from autocrossing. I really do believe it is a good way to learn car control, even if it is at relatively "low" speeds.
One thing that has concerned me lately though is that it can teach some bad habits as well, mainly driving for that one smoking run at the expense of consistency. The rallycross championship I help organize does 6 cumulative runs and I notice that autocrossers (including myself) generally have the hardest time putting in 6 consistently quick runs.
At this point I'm planning on sitting out the 2003 season, have to wait and see if the bug bites again as the season approaches.....
C
| Subie Gal | 12-27-2002 04:15 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Big C [/i]
[B]I have been battling the boredom aspect of autocross for awhile now......Spending an entire day for 4 60 second runs has become a bit hard to justify. [/B][/QUOTE]
exactly why i stopped going...
just glad i found something else to occupy my need 4 speed :D
Jamie
[url]www.subiegalracing.com[/url]
[B]I have been battling the boredom aspect of autocross for awhile now......Spending an entire day for 4 60 second runs has become a bit hard to justify. [/B][/QUOTE]
exactly why i stopped going...
just glad i found something else to occupy my need 4 speed :D
Jamie
[url]www.subiegalracing.com[/url]
| WagonMonster | 12-27-2002 04:20 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Big C [/i]
[B]Even worse are the events that cost $20-25 and give 3 40 second runs :rolleyes:
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's why I decided to quit auto-x as well.
Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring
[B]Even worse are the events that cost $20-25 and give 3 40 second runs :rolleyes:
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's why I decided to quit auto-x as well.
Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring
| trhoppe | 12-27-2002 04:22 PM |
[QUOTE]Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring[/QUOTE]
You guys have definetly never attended a ProSolo :)
You guys have definetly never attended a ProSolo :)
| DILLIGAF Racing | 12-27-2002 04:38 PM |
I stopped autocrossing when I had my VW. Combination of the cost/seat time, and ignorant people. It is a way to test your skills out, and have fun, I just wasnt having any fun. I am thinking of trying it again in my WRX, not sure yet. You are right about the Kart Racing. You get alot of seat time. I looked into getting one, and competing, but I am over 6 foot, and an all around big guy, and a guy that runs told me, that there isn't a class to put me into (cause they go by weight), but you could get one for like $1000, pay $20 on a saturday afternoon, and play all day long. Sounded fun, just don't have a $1000 to drop into a toy, I will only use once in awhile. I now want to Rally Cross. If you have your own Kart, go autocross that, and kick some butt :D
| Brett555 | 12-27-2002 05:45 PM |
I actually started out doing high speed events (HPDE's, etc) and then later started autocrossing. Now, I actually prefer autocrossing over HPDE's pretty much because its not as hard on the car, and it isn't nearly as dangerous. If I had a dedicated race car with full cage and other safety equipment, I'd probably split my time 50/50 between track events and autocrosses (I currently only do 1-2 track events a year). Even with a dedicated track car though, I'd still autocross a lot...its just too much fun.
The cool thing about autocrossing is that you get to meet so many other car nuts. If you attend events once a month, for example, you see many of the same people and get to know some of them, which only adds to the fun. At HPDE's you meet different people everytime, so its hard to get to know anyone.
If you only autocross for the 3-4 minutes of seat time, you are definitely doing it for the wrong reasons.
The cool thing about autocrossing is that you get to meet so many other car nuts. If you attend events once a month, for example, you see many of the same people and get to know some of them, which only adds to the fun. At HPDE's you meet different people everytime, so its hard to get to know anyone.
If you only autocross for the 3-4 minutes of seat time, you are definitely doing it for the wrong reasons.
| TR | 12-27-2002 05:48 PM |
NASA X
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thats why I do NASA autoX instead of SCCA...
for 30$ I get 8 runs (they limit the field to 80 cars in NASAnortheast), 2 half speed practice runs, and about 4 fun runs for 1$/each.
for 30$ I get 8 runs (they limit the field to 80 cars in NASAnortheast), 2 half speed practice runs, and about 4 fun runs for 1$/each.
| wes | 12-27-2002 05:51 PM |
kart classes for older and larger people
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You should look into 2 cycle kart racing, specifically the yamaha sportsman class. The senior class has a weight minmum of 360-365 combined for kart and driver. that means you can weigh 200-205 and still be at the minimum. Its not as cheap as they say, but you can start out with used equipment and get the hang of it and then upgrade down the road. If your local karting scene is big enough you can get 12-18 guys in the class and you can have a blast racing for 8th or 9th place even when you are just getting started. Also weight isnt always the difference its mostly about experience and skill.
| DILLIGAF Racing | 12-27-2002 05:55 PM |
I think the point the guy was trying to get across to me was I was too fat. Just kidding, he said the height is a major factor, because I couldn't get low enough in the Kart to be aerodynamic. I dunno. Still want to look into Rally, just don't want to use the WRX. Still anal about it.
| Brett555 | 12-27-2002 07:30 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DILLIGAF Racing [/i]
Still want to look into Rally, just don't want to use the WRX. Still anal about it. [/QUOTE]
I have yet to do a rallycross, but have seen a few of my autocrossing friends cars after they did a rallycross....dirt and mud everywhere! And I mean everywhere. After seeing that, I don't think I will do one with my street car.
Still want to look into Rally, just don't want to use the WRX. Still anal about it. [/QUOTE]
I have yet to do a rallycross, but have seen a few of my autocrossing friends cars after they did a rallycross....dirt and mud everywhere! And I mean everywhere. After seeing that, I don't think I will do one with my street car.
| Scoobie Doogie | 12-27-2002 08:17 PM |
Simple explanation. It is a venue for people who would like to race but cannot afford a full on race car or who do not want to risk being mangled in a higher speed form of racing. Also it translates well into daily driving and knowing what you can and cannot do with your car to avoid accidents. It is also a very competitive sport to drive in. You have to be exceptionally skilled at placing your car in the right spot at the right angle at the right speed to win at higher levels. Run against guys like Tom Hoppe or KC in the same car as them and scratch your head as to why you can't get close to them in time. Not boring.
Dave
Dave
| CivicSiRacer | 12-27-2002 08:54 PM |
Maybe it's the club you ran with. THe regions I've been with you are out on course for maybe 30-60 minutes ONCE during the day, and you get 4-8 runs depending on how many people show up.
It's nice with some other clubs if you arrive early and help out with the morning setup you don't have to work at all the rest of the day :)
But yeah different clubs will have ignorant people and helpful people, you just have to weed them out or look for the novice instructor - because he's supposed to be newbie friendly.
It's nice with some other clubs if you arrive early and help out with the morning setup you don't have to work at all the rest of the day :)
But yeah different clubs will have ignorant people and helpful people, you just have to weed them out or look for the novice instructor - because he's supposed to be newbie friendly.
| interiot | 12-28-2002 12:19 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DILLIGAF Racing [/i]
[B]I think the point the guy was trying to get across to me was I was too fat. Just kidding, he said the height is a major factor, because I couldn't get low enough in the Kart to be aerodynamic. I dunno. Still want to look into Rally, just don't want to use the WRX. Still anal about it. [/B][/QUOTE]
Something like 40 - 60% of the cars at rallycrosses are WRX's or RS's. Worried about damage or what?
[B]I think the point the guy was trying to get across to me was I was too fat. Just kidding, he said the height is a major factor, because I couldn't get low enough in the Kart to be aerodynamic. I dunno. Still want to look into Rally, just don't want to use the WRX. Still anal about it. [/B][/QUOTE]
Something like 40 - 60% of the cars at rallycrosses are WRX's or RS's. Worried about damage or what?
| interiot | 12-28-2002 12:26 AM |
Re: Explain to me the popularity of Auto-X
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wes [/i]
[B]I did some auto-x ing for a couple of years and was bored out of my mind! I would sit out at the track for 7-8 hrs just so I could run 4, maybe 6 1 minute laps. I dont get it. I switched to kart racing. Talk about track time!!!![/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, I have the same issues with rallycross... I really want to learn left-foot braking, countersteering, scandanavian flicks, etc... but I end up learning the most from the time I spend on back roads (not really optimal either, already had an accident trying that). Are there any similar alternatives to rallycross, especially for newbies?
[B]I did some auto-x ing for a couple of years and was bored out of my mind! I would sit out at the track for 7-8 hrs just so I could run 4, maybe 6 1 minute laps. I dont get it. I switched to kart racing. Talk about track time!!!![/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, I have the same issues with rallycross... I really want to learn left-foot braking, countersteering, scandanavian flicks, etc... but I end up learning the most from the time I spend on back roads (not really optimal either, already had an accident trying that). Are there any similar alternatives to rallycross, especially for newbies?
| MGXsport | 12-28-2002 03:29 AM |
I don't really like it either. I will go to only the practice sessions where you get about 10-15 runs at it. There are a lot less people there and it was a great time to get to have a instructor ride with you. Hopefully they will have on again soon!
| Kostamojen | 12-28-2002 04:01 AM |
Re: Explain to me the popularity of Auto-X
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I think you guys are upset cause your racing in crowded regions.
I get 5 minute long runs for $25. And there are several formats that are being experimented with, like a "practice" format where you pay like $30 and race all day all you want but you just wait in a line thats made like parking spots (it was really fun and you didnt have to wait long at all, I got ~8 runs in). The "enduro" format where they have like 3 2 lap runs on saturday and 1 5 lap run on sunday for trophies... and we have 3 different venues here too.
And I tried carting, and I hated it... I autocross mostly cause track days are damn expensive! And rallycrossing/rallying is fun, but I only have this one car for me to use :p I'd like it to last ;)
I get 5 minute long runs for $25. And there are several formats that are being experimented with, like a "practice" format where you pay like $30 and race all day all you want but you just wait in a line thats made like parking spots (it was really fun and you didnt have to wait long at all, I got ~8 runs in). The "enduro" format where they have like 3 2 lap runs on saturday and 1 5 lap run on sunday for trophies... and we have 3 different venues here too.
And I tried carting, and I hated it... I autocross mostly cause track days are damn expensive! And rallycrossing/rallying is fun, but I only have this one car for me to use :p I'd like it to last ;)
| briank | 12-29-2002 09:46 PM |
Sure, Auto-X is not perfect...
But where else do you get to toss YOUR car around on a tight course and learn how it handles when making quick manuvers?
Don't say track days or rally-x's because its not the same type of manuvering. Both of those are different and are also must-attend events for the driver who wants to know how to control their car on all types of surfaces and at all speeds.
I also find that the adrenaline rush from one go at an auto-x course is stronger than lapping at a track, but that's because your packing a lot of action into a 60 second course. That doesn't appeal to all people, but it does appeal to quite a few based on the numbers we see at events.
-BrianK
But where else do you get to toss YOUR car around on a tight course and learn how it handles when making quick manuvers?
Don't say track days or rally-x's because its not the same type of manuvering. Both of those are different and are also must-attend events for the driver who wants to know how to control their car on all types of surfaces and at all speeds.
I also find that the adrenaline rush from one go at an auto-x course is stronger than lapping at a track, but that's because your packing a lot of action into a 60 second course. That doesn't appeal to all people, but it does appeal to quite a few based on the numbers we see at events.
-BrianK
| ellisnc | 12-29-2002 11:42 PM |
It's been stated before by others, but for me at this point is it's just basically a social event. I mean I like to do well and will spend some money to do so but it's pretty tough to get THAT into it at least for me that I would think about going to nationals. I'm basically just biding my time increasing the level of equipment on my car before I take it to the track. I have an AE86 for auto-x later if I want which I think is a better (read more fun) car for those type of events anyway.
I will however be close to the last to say that auto-x is worthless as far as teaching car control and correct reactions to what the car is doing not instinctive ones. Also �t's something fairly cheap and fun to do on the weekends and it gets the speed bug out of me for a little while anyway. I can also see where auto-x can help someone wanting to do high speed track driving later due to the car placement skills and car attitude control that are very critical in auto-x. It really cracks me up when guys that have done a lot of track driving come out to auto-x and start downshifting all over the place and don't know how to toss the car around enough.
Anyway, I'd say for most people here it's just something fun to do on the weekends and a social event. As long as you stay in with the right people at the events and not the "rice"element that always seems to come out then it's pretty fun...
I will however be close to the last to say that auto-x is worthless as far as teaching car control and correct reactions to what the car is doing not instinctive ones. Also �t's something fairly cheap and fun to do on the weekends and it gets the speed bug out of me for a little while anyway. I can also see where auto-x can help someone wanting to do high speed track driving later due to the car placement skills and car attitude control that are very critical in auto-x. It really cracks me up when guys that have done a lot of track driving come out to auto-x and start downshifting all over the place and don't know how to toss the car around enough.
Anyway, I'd say for most people here it's just something fun to do on the weekends and a social event. As long as you stay in with the right people at the events and not the "rice"element that always seems to come out then it's pretty fun...
| dwx | 12-30-2002 12:28 AM |
Auto-X is a great stepping stone for other racing endeavors. Generally guys that auto-x pick up track stuff fairly well while track drivers are kind of lost doing autox. You basically see just about every type of corner you can imagine at all kinds of speeds. Peter Cunningham started out by autox'ing in this region many moons ago and look at him now. Another guy is Paul Eklund (rally), who is a multi-time national autox champ.
For me autox is as much a social event as a driving competition. It's good to compete with your friends, especially fellow Subaru guys. I've met alot of good people through autox. We have a group of about 10 Subaru guys in this area that all autox regularly and during the season there are events every weekend. I'm making the jump to SM this year and there should be at least two other SM Imprezas in the mix.
Events in this area are usually capped at 150 drivers and we still get 6 1+ minute runs in pretty easily. I've been to an event with 180 entries where we still got 6 runs. Even at our first event last year we had 270 entries and still got 4 in.
For me autox is as much a social event as a driving competition. It's good to compete with your friends, especially fellow Subaru guys. I've met alot of good people through autox. We have a group of about 10 Subaru guys in this area that all autox regularly and during the season there are events every weekend. I'm making the jump to SM this year and there should be at least two other SM Imprezas in the mix.
Events in this area are usually capped at 150 drivers and we still get 6 1+ minute runs in pretty easily. I've been to an event with 180 entries where we still got 6 runs. Even at our first event last year we had 270 entries and still got 4 in.
| deimos | 12-30-2002 01:23 AM |
I've actually spent a decent amount of time thinking about this very subject. I'm used to motorcycle racing and trackdays, where you get a good 4h of track time, and 4h of non-riding time. You're exhausted by the end of the day. However, my most enjoyable autocrosses have been the smaller ones, not more than 30 cars. You end up getting off the course, resting for 2 minutes and are right back out there. The other side is long courses with few cars. A 2 minute course seems like an eternity whilst navigating it. And with a small run group, it's at least a solid hour or so of runs.
The NorthEast seems crowded, a lot of people show up to Autocrosses (80-90 cars is average). It takes 10 hours to get 4 run groups done; each run is under 60 seconds. Those are the days I found myself asking why I was standing in the blistering sun/driving rain for 10h for a total of 4 minutes driving time.
In my first year of autocrossing, I find I'm a far better driver overall. However, I also find myself dreading the "big autocrosses" and 10 hours of standing around waiting. I've had friends come with me for autocrosses, and they've all enjoyed the car time, the social aspects, but not the waiting to run again.
The NorthEast seems crowded, a lot of people show up to Autocrosses (80-90 cars is average). It takes 10 hours to get 4 run groups done; each run is under 60 seconds. Those are the days I found myself asking why I was standing in the blistering sun/driving rain for 10h for a total of 4 minutes driving time.
In my first year of autocrossing, I find I'm a far better driver overall. However, I also find myself dreading the "big autocrosses" and 10 hours of standing around waiting. I've had friends come with me for autocrosses, and they've all enjoyed the car time, the social aspects, but not the waiting to run again.
| Kostamojen | 12-30-2002 01:52 AM |
Ive noticed most folks complaining about auto-x's are folks who have congested events and bad coordinators (10 hours? Local events here are designed where you race/work in either the morning or afternoon, not both) and also WRX drivers. Perhaps because someone like me in a cheap 1.8L impreza can compete with them and their cars and actually win? :lol:
Ok, ok... Enough ranting guys, we know that some folks dont like autocross and some dont like kart racing, and even others dont even like WRC. Everyone enjoys different things :p
Ok, ok... Enough ranting guys, we know that some folks dont like autocross and some dont like kart racing, and even others dont even like WRC. Everyone enjoys different things :p
| trhoppe | 12-30-2002 08:35 AM |
If you have a 10 hour autox, you have some bad organization.
In our club we have first car off at 10:30. With 130 drivers, we are done with 4 runs at 3:00pm, and usually have fun runs. By the time results/trophies/cleanup are done, we are outa there at 5:00pm.
I myself take my autoxing pretty seriously. I run the national events, and am very adimate in getting a national championship this year. I am trying to use autox as a stepping stone into a racing career and to get myself noticed. Apparently it has worked ok so far :)
-Tom
In our club we have first car off at 10:30. With 130 drivers, we are done with 4 runs at 3:00pm, and usually have fun runs. By the time results/trophies/cleanup are done, we are outa there at 5:00pm.
I myself take my autoxing pretty seriously. I run the national events, and am very adimate in getting a national championship this year. I am trying to use autox as a stepping stone into a racing career and to get myself noticed. Apparently it has worked ok so far :)
-Tom
| KC | 12-30-2002 09:11 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]If you have a 10 hour autox, you have some bad organization.
In our club we have first car off at 10:30. With 130 drivers, we are done with 4 runs at 3:00pm, and usually have fun runs. By the time results/trophies/cleanup are done, we are outa there at 5:00pm.
I myself take my autoxing pretty seriously. I run the national events, and am very adimate in getting a national championship this year. I am trying to use autox as a stepping stone into a racing career and to get myself noticed. Apparently it has worked ok so far :)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]I know where Demios is coming from as that's my region. :)
Our 1st SCCA event in NER is usually 170-190 drivers. Yes... 170+ ([url]http://www.ner.org/soloII/solo2002/event1pax.html[/url]). It makes for a long day, working out the bugs, helping the new people, etc... 1st run usually starts around 9:30 and finishes at 4:30 to 5 (once or twice 6.. but we should be off the premisis by 6pm). 10 hrs is a bit of exaggeration but 8 to 9 is standard (however, 10+ if you're there at 7:30), including trophies at the end. We run in a 4 heat format, (Run/off/work/off, etc...) so there's a good amt of time of socializing, or watching others run. But it also is a long time when timing malfunctions or somone nails the end lights.
They're working on finding a better way of doing things, but our available course can really only allow 2 cars at a time... so that really slows things down on a 1 minute course. (it's a skinny runway.)
It does make a long day. I agree. But if you volunteer to help with registration, or set up the course... that's your work assignment for the day... spend 1/2 hr helping in the beginning, or 1.5-2 hrs standing in the heat of the day on the course. :)
We could always use more help getting things going. :)
--kC
[B]If you have a 10 hour autox, you have some bad organization.
In our club we have first car off at 10:30. With 130 drivers, we are done with 4 runs at 3:00pm, and usually have fun runs. By the time results/trophies/cleanup are done, we are outa there at 5:00pm.
I myself take my autoxing pretty seriously. I run the national events, and am very adimate in getting a national championship this year. I am trying to use autox as a stepping stone into a racing career and to get myself noticed. Apparently it has worked ok so far :)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]I know where Demios is coming from as that's my region. :)
Our 1st SCCA event in NER is usually 170-190 drivers. Yes... 170+ ([url]http://www.ner.org/soloII/solo2002/event1pax.html[/url]). It makes for a long day, working out the bugs, helping the new people, etc... 1st run usually starts around 9:30 and finishes at 4:30 to 5 (once or twice 6.. but we should be off the premisis by 6pm). 10 hrs is a bit of exaggeration but 8 to 9 is standard (however, 10+ if you're there at 7:30), including trophies at the end. We run in a 4 heat format, (Run/off/work/off, etc...) so there's a good amt of time of socializing, or watching others run. But it also is a long time when timing malfunctions or somone nails the end lights.
They're working on finding a better way of doing things, but our available course can really only allow 2 cars at a time... so that really slows things down on a 1 minute course. (it's a skinny runway.)
It does make a long day. I agree. But if you volunteer to help with registration, or set up the course... that's your work assignment for the day... spend 1/2 hr helping in the beginning, or 1.5-2 hrs standing in the heat of the day on the course. :)
We could always use more help getting things going. :)
--kC
| dwx | 12-30-2002 09:25 AM |
Our average events out here are usually 150-170 drivers. Our first event last year had 270. I guess out west it's the same way. 270 we could only get in 4 runs. But we had a joint event near the end of the year where we had 210 drivers and did 6 runs in 8 hours. I think 47 seconds was the average run time. I can see how doing 2 cars on a course at one time is gonna slow you down alot. We had a course late in the year with an average run time of like 75 seconds and with 150 drivers it made for a loooong day. We generally only have to work 1 heat then which is nice, as long as you don't get stuck working the 4th heat. :)
| CivicSiRacer | 12-30-2002 10:09 AM |
I would have to agree to. A 10 hour autocross? No wonder you would hate it. I would hate it too :) What is your club doing everything by hand?
Our autocrosses about 90 people show up, first car off at 10am, and we're done at 3/4pm with 4-5 runs. Afterwards we do fun-runs until we drop dead or no more sunlight :) But then again when another club does the autocross (we have like 4-5 sister clubs that run the series) they do everything by hand and it takes make an hour or two more.
I've been to the Philly Region (1.5 hour drive) and they got about 180 people. First car off at 10am done by 4pm and we got 7 runs that day.
Autocrossing does teach good driving technique. As someone else said where else can you try something you would do on the road? Autocrossing is basically emergency manuevers - with the right amount of brakes, steering input and acceleration. I know if it were not for autocrossing I would have crashed my car several times, but I knew what to do in those situations.
Our autocrosses about 90 people show up, first car off at 10am, and we're done at 3/4pm with 4-5 runs. Afterwards we do fun-runs until we drop dead or no more sunlight :) But then again when another club does the autocross (we have like 4-5 sister clubs that run the series) they do everything by hand and it takes make an hour or two more.
I've been to the Philly Region (1.5 hour drive) and they got about 180 people. First car off at 10am done by 4pm and we got 7 runs that day.
Autocrossing does teach good driving technique. As someone else said where else can you try something you would do on the road? Autocrossing is basically emergency manuevers - with the right amount of brakes, steering input and acceleration. I know if it were not for autocrossing I would have crashed my car several times, but I knew what to do in those situations.
| ChrisW | 12-30-2002 11:32 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]I know where Demios is coming from as that's my region. :)
Our 1st SCCA event in NER is usually 170-190 drivers. Yes... 170+ ([url]http://www.ner.org/soloII/solo2002/event1pax.html[/url]). It makes for a long day, working out the bugs, helping the new people, etc... 1st run usually starts around 9:30 and finishes at 4:30 to 5 (once or twice 6.. but we should be off the premisis by 6pm).
....
They're working on finding a better way of doing things, but our available course can really only allow 2 cars at a time... so that really slows things down on a 1 minute course. (it's a skinny runway.)
....
We could always use more help getting things going. :)
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
170? that's nothing....
In the san francisco region we have [i]on average[/i] 200+ with a peak of 340 entries for our third event this past season :eek: [url]http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results/2002/Championship/round3.html[/url]
Why do I like autocross? [i]you have to like it when 300 people show[/i] I like the precision driving. It's a challenge to show up, walk the course and have 3 tries to do your best run. With each course being unique, you don't have the boring repitition of a closed track.
Also, autocrossing is generally not very abusive on your car. My first trackday I know of other people that in a single track day event will go through a set brake pad, tires and then require a full flush of the brake fluid before they leave because they have boiled their brake fluid.
When my car is properly setup, 1 set of kumos will last a season in regional competition.
Autocrossing is a great way to drive it like you stole it, legally. We even offer free fun run for the highway patrol. Some of them do pretty well, most do not..:lol:
[B]I know where Demios is coming from as that's my region. :)
Our 1st SCCA event in NER is usually 170-190 drivers. Yes... 170+ ([url]http://www.ner.org/soloII/solo2002/event1pax.html[/url]). It makes for a long day, working out the bugs, helping the new people, etc... 1st run usually starts around 9:30 and finishes at 4:30 to 5 (once or twice 6.. but we should be off the premisis by 6pm).
....
They're working on finding a better way of doing things, but our available course can really only allow 2 cars at a time... so that really slows things down on a 1 minute course. (it's a skinny runway.)
....
We could always use more help getting things going. :)
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
170? that's nothing....
In the san francisco region we have [i]on average[/i] 200+ with a peak of 340 entries for our third event this past season :eek: [url]http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results/2002/Championship/round3.html[/url]
Why do I like autocross? [i]you have to like it when 300 people show[/i] I like the precision driving. It's a challenge to show up, walk the course and have 3 tries to do your best run. With each course being unique, you don't have the boring repitition of a closed track.
Also, autocrossing is generally not very abusive on your car. My first trackday I know of other people that in a single track day event will go through a set brake pad, tires and then require a full flush of the brake fluid before they leave because they have boiled their brake fluid.
When my car is properly setup, 1 set of kumos will last a season in regional competition.
Autocrossing is a great way to drive it like you stole it, legally. We even offer free fun run for the highway patrol. Some of them do pretty well, most do not..:lol:
| TyrannoSullyRex | 12-30-2002 11:49 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]I know where Demios is coming from as that's my region. :)
Our 1st SCCA event in NER is usually 170-190 drivers. Yes... 170+ ([url]http://www.ner.org/soloII/solo2002/event1pax.html[/url]). It makes for a long day, working out the bugs, helping the new people, etc... 1st run usually starts around 9:30 and finishes at 4:30 to 5 (once or twice 6.. but we should be off the premisis by 6pm). 10 hrs is a bit of exaggeration but 8 to 9 is standard (however, 10+ if you're there at 7:30), including trophies at the end. We run in a 4 heat format, (Run/off/work/off, etc...) so there's a good amt of time of socializing, or watching others run. But it also is a long time when timing malfunctions or somone nails the end lights.
They're working on finding a better way of doing things, but our available course can really only allow 2 cars at a time... so that really slows things down on a 1 minute course. (it's a skinny runway.)
It does make a long day. I agree. But if you volunteer to help with registration, or set up the course... that's your work assignment for the day... spend 1/2 hr helping in the beginning, or 1.5-2 hrs standing in the heat of the day on the course. :)
We could always use more help getting things going. :)
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
We have a ton of people in Houston Region that autox, typically 170 to 200+ every event. We've split the day in two with registration for the afternoon run group concurrent with heat2 of the morning run group. This makes it a 4-5 hour event for newbies plus if you have something that can't be missed (like a birthday party or something) then run in the morning and have the afternoon off to attend whatever. It works pretty good in my opinion.
As far as the allure of autox, I'd put it down to intensity. Alot happens in 60 seconds. Plus, you learn low-speed maneuvers and car control that help in day to day driving. It's not that often (well, it shouldn't be at all) that you'll have to take a slight left hand sweeper at 100+mph on the street.
[B]I know where Demios is coming from as that's my region. :)
Our 1st SCCA event in NER is usually 170-190 drivers. Yes... 170+ ([url]http://www.ner.org/soloII/solo2002/event1pax.html[/url]). It makes for a long day, working out the bugs, helping the new people, etc... 1st run usually starts around 9:30 and finishes at 4:30 to 5 (once or twice 6.. but we should be off the premisis by 6pm). 10 hrs is a bit of exaggeration but 8 to 9 is standard (however, 10+ if you're there at 7:30), including trophies at the end. We run in a 4 heat format, (Run/off/work/off, etc...) so there's a good amt of time of socializing, or watching others run. But it also is a long time when timing malfunctions or somone nails the end lights.
They're working on finding a better way of doing things, but our available course can really only allow 2 cars at a time... so that really slows things down on a 1 minute course. (it's a skinny runway.)
It does make a long day. I agree. But if you volunteer to help with registration, or set up the course... that's your work assignment for the day... spend 1/2 hr helping in the beginning, or 1.5-2 hrs standing in the heat of the day on the course. :)
We could always use more help getting things going. :)
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
We have a ton of people in Houston Region that autox, typically 170 to 200+ every event. We've split the day in two with registration for the afternoon run group concurrent with heat2 of the morning run group. This makes it a 4-5 hour event for newbies plus if you have something that can't be missed (like a birthday party or something) then run in the morning and have the afternoon off to attend whatever. It works pretty good in my opinion.
As far as the allure of autox, I'd put it down to intensity. Alot happens in 60 seconds. Plus, you learn low-speed maneuvers and car control that help in day to day driving. It's not that often (well, it shouldn't be at all) that you'll have to take a slight left hand sweeper at 100+mph on the street.
| dwx | 12-30-2002 12:01 PM |
Honestly I don't know if I'd be so quick to come out if I only got 3 runs. I like the fact that I get 3 runs in the morning and then another 3 in the afternoon after everyone else has run. If you are running 200 people and a 60 second course it's difficult. We often have rolling worker changeovers and zero downtime the whole day. Organization needs to be spot on but we have some good people in this area.
| ellisnc | 12-30-2002 01:05 PM |
I think also a lot of it boils down to how the event is being run. The Central Division in Columbus we always have 120 or so cars which I don't think is too many, but the people that run it are soooo unorganized that it takes all day to get 4 runs in. To give you an idea, in the Governor's cup which is a 2 day event and uses PAX and a elimination tree the 2nd day they were doing the PAX time calulations by hand on a calculator. :rolleyes:
I mean ideally you'd have a set order of cars in a laptop and just record them or punch the number of the car in a macro and then have it record the next time automatically.
Also another thing I hate is cars that have like 2 or 3 drivers. The first problem is because it screws up the order of everything and you can't just run one after another and you have all these cars taking many turns on track. If it were up to me I wouldn't allow that unless we were getting 5-7 runs in already.
Another thing that affects the event is what kind of drivers you have there. If you've got a ton of people making mistakes and taking out the timing equipment or 5 cones at a time every run because they're just driving like asses then that'll make the event suck too.
So anyway, I guess if I were getting 7 runs like a lot of you guys I'd probably take it more seriously, but since we normally only get 4 runs sometimes 5 it's more of a social event for me.
I mean ideally you'd have a set order of cars in a laptop and just record them or punch the number of the car in a macro and then have it record the next time automatically.
Also another thing I hate is cars that have like 2 or 3 drivers. The first problem is because it screws up the order of everything and you can't just run one after another and you have all these cars taking many turns on track. If it were up to me I wouldn't allow that unless we were getting 5-7 runs in already.
Another thing that affects the event is what kind of drivers you have there. If you've got a ton of people making mistakes and taking out the timing equipment or 5 cones at a time every run because they're just driving like asses then that'll make the event suck too.
So anyway, I guess if I were getting 7 runs like a lot of you guys I'd probably take it more seriously, but since we normally only get 4 runs sometimes 5 it's more of a social event for me.
| NotFast | 12-30-2002 01:59 PM |
Autocross is boring.
For more info, please see:
[URL=http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm]Pyramid of Speed[/URL]
For more info, please see:
[URL=http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm]Pyramid of Speed[/URL]
| deimos | 12-30-2002 04:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by NotFast [/i]
[B]Autocross is boring.
For more info, please see:
[URL=http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm]Pyramid of Speed[/URL] [/B][/QUOTE]
Now we're going to start the flamefest eh?
Oh yeah, I used to race motorcycles, let's see some wussy wheel-to-wheel racer hang his body millimeters from the tarmac, out of the car, at 120+mph and elbow another car to mess up their apex? :P
I'm kidding, of course.
/me dons flame retardant suit
[B]Autocross is boring.
For more info, please see:
[URL=http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm]Pyramid of Speed[/URL] [/B][/QUOTE]
Now we're going to start the flamefest eh?
Oh yeah, I used to race motorcycles, let's see some wussy wheel-to-wheel racer hang his body millimeters from the tarmac, out of the car, at 120+mph and elbow another car to mess up their apex? :P
I'm kidding, of course.
/me dons flame retardant suit
| Brett555 | 12-30-2002 05:37 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by NotFast [/i]
[B]Autocross is boring.
For more info, please see:
[URL=http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm]Pyramid of Speed[/URL] [/B][/QUOTE]
While I find Dougs NSXFiles website very informative and humorous, you gotta remember that Doug is wealthier than most of us. If I was rich, I'd probably be doing more high speed and wheel-to-wheel racing just like he does, but unfortunately I don't have the cash to risk wadding up my daily driver. I'll do a high speed event every now and then, but for now autocross will have to satisfy my go-fast addiction.
[B]Autocross is boring.
For more info, please see:
[URL=http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm]Pyramid of Speed[/URL] [/B][/QUOTE]
While I find Dougs NSXFiles website very informative and humorous, you gotta remember that Doug is wealthier than most of us. If I was rich, I'd probably be doing more high speed and wheel-to-wheel racing just like he does, but unfortunately I don't have the cash to risk wadding up my daily driver. I'll do a high speed event every now and then, but for now autocross will have to satisfy my go-fast addiction.
| Kostamojen | 12-30-2002 06:55 PM |
Thats the other thing about autocrossing, you dont have to worry about other cars on the track and making room for them :p Some people like that, but I dont know... I worry about people going faster than me who are behind me...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ChrisW [/i]
[B]
170? that's nothing....
In the san francisco region we have [i]on average[/i] 200+ with a peak of 340 entries for our third event this past season :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]
Ya, I went down to golden gate fields once... 3 runs? Bah, no way. You guys need to drive up here to Sac and stop wasting time in that region :p
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ChrisW [/i]
[B]
170? that's nothing....
In the san francisco region we have [i]on average[/i] 200+ with a peak of 340 entries for our third event this past season :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]
Ya, I went down to golden gate fields once... 3 runs? Bah, no way. You guys need to drive up here to Sac and stop wasting time in that region :p
| deimos | 12-30-2002 07:31 PM |
[QUOTE][i]10 hrs is a bit of exaggeration but 8 to 9 is standard (however, 10+ if you're there at 7:30), including trophies at the end. [/B][/QUOTE]
I gotta get that schedule. I tend to arrive at 6:30-6:45 am, and am there till 5:30ish normally helping clean up. That seems like 10h+ to me. I wish I could stroll in at 7:30 and be out by 5. :P
And no, they're not all 10 hours, but they all seem to drag on at times when waiting for a run.
I usually spend my time critiquing everyone else on course while I'm corner working. Of course, I end up making the same mistakes, but at least now I'm catching them and can see when someone else does it. I mean, besides KC, his are flawless. :P
I gotta get that schedule. I tend to arrive at 6:30-6:45 am, and am there till 5:30ish normally helping clean up. That seems like 10h+ to me. I wish I could stroll in at 7:30 and be out by 5. :P
And no, they're not all 10 hours, but they all seem to drag on at times when waiting for a run.
I usually spend my time critiquing everyone else on course while I'm corner working. Of course, I end up making the same mistakes, but at least now I'm catching them and can see when someone else does it. I mean, besides KC, his are flawless. :P
| ChrisW | 12-31-2002 01:21 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kostamojen [/i]
[B]Thats the other thing about autocrossing, you dont have to worry about other cars on the track and making room for them :p Some people like that, but I dont know... I worry about people going faster than me who are behind me...
Ya, I went down to golden gate fields once... 3 runs? Bah, no way. You guys need to drive up here to Sac and stop wasting time in that region :p [/B][/QUOTE]
I would believe me, but Saco is too damm far from the ocean!:p
[B]Thats the other thing about autocrossing, you dont have to worry about other cars on the track and making room for them :p Some people like that, but I dont know... I worry about people going faster than me who are behind me...
Ya, I went down to golden gate fields once... 3 runs? Bah, no way. You guys need to drive up here to Sac and stop wasting time in that region :p [/B][/QUOTE]
I would believe me, but Saco is too damm far from the ocean!:p
| WRX03 | 12-31-2002 11:09 AM |
I'm undecided about autocrossing the WRX. Still have a few karts to race and a ton of places to race them for my racing pleasure. A friend has a spec racer ford and loves it. Kind of like a briggs at a long street race; low power, many cars, very competitive. Also he says it's a lot easier to drive than a 2-cycle kart and much easier on the body. There is many ex kart racers in the class and many middle age guys in the class. Bad part you'll need around $20k to get started. But once you have it, it doesn't cost too much to race it. But if you want cheap fun, buy a kart.
| NotFast | 12-31-2002 11:23 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by deimos [/i]
[B]
I'm kidding, of course. [/B][/QUOTE]
Me too :D. I should put more :D in my posts to denote it....
[B]
I'm kidding, of course. [/B][/QUOTE]
Me too :D. I should put more :D in my posts to denote it....
| Gary (gg) | 01-02-2003 11:52 PM |
I think its time I chime in on this. Autocrossing is a great testing ground for mods. I assume that all of us do not own or personally rent race tracks except for Gary Sheenan Racing. Yes, you only get 3-8 runs of 30-90 secs. Some of you might be out there for 10 hours. But if you have been to Nationals its like that but for a week. Its a great place to hang out with car guys, rationalize why you spend a lot of money and time on your car. I learn a lot about car prep and mods that work and mods that don't. Its a real good proving grounds for not just mods but also how well everything works and how knowledgable you are about car setup. Notice how any question about power and handling have its answers from a lot of people that have autocrossed here. If it works in this environment then it works great for the street too. The most basic of car prep is tire pressure and alignment. How many people here can figure out tire pressures and alignment to tweak a car's handling after putting on coilovers, swaybars, and tires and rims? Not many can without testing That is the black art of car setup. How does anyone know what's a great street tire or coilovers? The classes in autocrossing like street touring and STX have direct correlation with mods for the street. How many people have bought something because it has a good reputation in the autocrossing community.
This bears repeating. If works in the autocrossing environment then it will work well for the street.
This bears repeating. If works in the autocrossing environment then it will work well for the street.
| boxerT | 01-03-2003 01:38 AM |
Wes,
Auto-x is boring to people like you that are never satisfied about anything and try to pick a fight with people that love the sport. It is like saying that baseball is boring to a baseball fan. Get a life!
The point of auto-x is that at a top level it requires more skill than most road racing. There are many famous names that started in auto-x: Randy Pobst, Parker Johnstone, Neal Sapp just to name a few.
Auto-x is boring to people like you that are never satisfied about anything and try to pick a fight with people that love the sport. It is like saying that baseball is boring to a baseball fan. Get a life!
The point of auto-x is that at a top level it requires more skill than most road racing. There are many famous names that started in auto-x: Randy Pobst, Parker Johnstone, Neal Sapp just to name a few.
| Red-Impreza | 01-03-2003 01:40 AM |
It's a bit like golf...
�
�
...the harder you try the worse you get. The best day is when you spend the least time doing what you actually love about it. And, it's most fun when you beat someone who's been spanking you regularly in the past. You either enjoy it, or you think it's way more trouble then it's worth.
It's kind of a drag if you're always getting beat badly and I've heard it's not as much fun if you're always winning (not that I'd know :rolleyes: ). But, it is an absolute blast if you've got close competition with good people. There's nothing better then putting together a good season and beating the guys who've been handing you your head for a year. It's also pretty cool when somebody who's been a good sport and a hard worker suddenly starts beating you. You kinda' go "huh, howd that happen?" Then you have to start thinking about how to move your own skills to the next level.
It's also the only safe way to drive your street car at the limits.
Oh, and you should all come out to Phoenix where we stand all day in 110 to 115 degree heat for 3 runs. We normally have 170-200 people and we've had to cap it several times at 240.
Of course, I'd skip an autocross for a rallycross any day of the week. Scooby just loves to play in the dirt.
:devil:
It's kind of a drag if you're always getting beat badly and I've heard it's not as much fun if you're always winning (not that I'd know :rolleyes: ). But, it is an absolute blast if you've got close competition with good people. There's nothing better then putting together a good season and beating the guys who've been handing you your head for a year. It's also pretty cool when somebody who's been a good sport and a hard worker suddenly starts beating you. You kinda' go "huh, howd that happen?" Then you have to start thinking about how to move your own skills to the next level.
It's also the only safe way to drive your street car at the limits.
Oh, and you should all come out to Phoenix where we stand all day in 110 to 115 degree heat for 3 runs. We normally have 170-200 people and we've had to cap it several times at 240.
Of course, I'd skip an autocross for a rallycross any day of the week. Scooby just loves to play in the dirt.
:devil:
| Kostamojen | 01-03-2003 05:12 AM |
Ive consistantly gotten better, but ive only been out to like 6 events where I actually raced... And my car was consantly improved too :p
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