| ScreaminFast | 09-03-2003 06:18 PM |
Harness Bar or Full Cage??
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Basically, I've made the decision to make my wrx race only, and take the next step. I was wondering what you all suggest for harnesses. Is it worth it to get the full cage? Or is the harness bar enough bracing to get into club racing, or even as far as the touring car events that Gary does? Any help is greatly appreciated, and I'm very new to this, but I find half of the fun in preparing the car. So don't flame me because I don't have much experience yet. Thanks!
~Mike
~Mike
| Warp3 | 09-03-2003 06:49 PM |
Even Solo I / Hill Climbs require a roll bar (kinda like the rear half of a full roll cage...hehe). I'm not sure, but I would assume that any type of wheel-to-wheel racing would require a full cage. Regardless, a "harness bar" would not suffice for much beyond autocross / track days.
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
DSP 729 -- CCar Region
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
DSP 729 -- CCar Region
| ScreaminFast | 09-03-2003 07:07 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Warp3 [/i]
[B]Even Solo I / Hill Climbs require a roll bar (kinda like the rear half of a full roll cage...hehe). I'm not sure, but I would assume that any type of wheel-to-wheel racing would require a full cage. Regardless, a "harness bar" would not suffice for much beyond autocross / track days.
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
DSP 729 -- CCar Region [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats kinda what i figured, but I wasn't sure. Any links, suggestions, etc to where to get a good cage or something like that?
[B]Even Solo I / Hill Climbs require a roll bar (kinda like the rear half of a full roll cage...hehe). I'm not sure, but I would assume that any type of wheel-to-wheel racing would require a full cage. Regardless, a "harness bar" would not suffice for much beyond autocross / track days.
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
DSP 729 -- CCar Region [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats kinda what i figured, but I wasn't sure. Any links, suggestions, etc to where to get a good cage or something like that?
| LyveWRX | 09-03-2003 07:32 PM |
For the SCCA...
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There is a rules PDF somewhere on their website... I'm not too familar with road racing rules but I know the Rally Cage is heavily (mis?)-spelt out....
[url]www.scca.org[/url]
I couldnt find it looking quickly...
You might want to just order the regs anyway...
From my research there are two ways to cage your car:
1. Pay a race prep shop to prep your car.
2. Learn how to: weld, swing a wrench really good, take a car completely apart and then completely re-assemble (after stich welding and all that other very important modification work.. (including cage).
Most opt for #1 for obvious reasons.. Day Job's, Uhhh is that the hot end?, etc.. Also you can easily find some very very good cage builders who can prep a car for a "production" class rather well.
With #2 I'm sure theres tons of satisfaction and knowledge to be gained.. though they say mainly through mistakes...
I've heard any where from 3-8k$ to prep a WRX for production.
Though someone who browses here will likely have better info as I'll be waiting till my WRX is vintage class (and paid off) to even think about turning it into a true competition vehicle... (well more than TSD rally)
nick
[url]www.scca.org[/url]
I couldnt find it looking quickly...
You might want to just order the regs anyway...
From my research there are two ways to cage your car:
1. Pay a race prep shop to prep your car.
2. Learn how to: weld, swing a wrench really good, take a car completely apart and then completely re-assemble (after stich welding and all that other very important modification work.. (including cage).
Most opt for #1 for obvious reasons.. Day Job's, Uhhh is that the hot end?, etc.. Also you can easily find some very very good cage builders who can prep a car for a "production" class rather well.
With #2 I'm sure theres tons of satisfaction and knowledge to be gained.. though they say mainly through mistakes...
I've heard any where from 3-8k$ to prep a WRX for production.
Though someone who browses here will likely have better info as I'll be waiting till my WRX is vintage class (and paid off) to even think about turning it into a true competition vehicle... (well more than TSD rally)
nick
| Jaxx | 09-04-2003 11:09 AM |
[quote]Hill Climbs require a roll bar [/quote]
no they don't
only in open top cars (i ran one last weekend)
the perplexing question is
1 to use a harness you need the harness bar to to maintain the correct angles (so you don't break your back)
2 if you are wearing a harness and the car flips upside down w/o a roll bar the roof may colapse .. if you are wearing a harness you won't be able to bend over(swuish)
3 in some circles roll bars ar considered to be too dangerous with out a helmit (head into bar=bad)
if some one figures this one out let me know as i am at about the same place (race only car)
no they don't
only in open top cars (i ran one last weekend)
the perplexing question is
1 to use a harness you need the harness bar to to maintain the correct angles (so you don't break your back)
2 if you are wearing a harness and the car flips upside down w/o a roll bar the roof may colapse .. if you are wearing a harness you won't be able to bend over(swuish)
3 in some circles roll bars ar considered to be too dangerous with out a helmit (head into bar=bad)
if some one figures this one out let me know as i am at about the same place (race only car)
| elgorey | 09-04-2003 11:20 AM |
Do not get a harness bar. This has been discussed many times here in the past, so try doing a search. Im not going to repeat anything, but just think about what would happen in a rollover/roof cavein with your head and body held straight up.
| ScreaminFast | 09-04-2003 12:01 PM |
yea thats very true. I think i've decided on a permanent cage after talking to one of my friends too....where are some good places to get a cage or to get one made?
| rallykeith | 09-04-2003 12:05 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jaxx [/i]
[B]
no they don't
only in open top cars (i ran one last weekend)
[/B][/QUOTE]
It depends on what region you are in and what type of event it is. Certian regions run things they call hillclimbs that aren't really solo 1 events.
[B]
no they don't
only in open top cars (i ran one last weekend)
[/B][/QUOTE]
It depends on what region you are in and what type of event it is. Certian regions run things they call hillclimbs that aren't really solo 1 events.
| elgorey | 09-04-2003 12:07 PM |
You may want to look at roll bars as well. It adds rollover protection to the car without the inconvenience of a full cage. If you are goign to drive the car on the street at all this is something you should consider. Hitting a bare head on a cage bar is not a good thing.
Autopower makes bolt in roll cages and roll bars for the wrx.
a good place to buy them is [url]www.ioportracing.com[/url]
Autopower makes bolt in roll cages and roll bars for the wrx.
a good place to buy them is [url]www.ioportracing.com[/url]
| ellisnc | 09-04-2003 08:24 PM |
frankly, this is just an opinion but...
I'm using a Autopower roll bar now and I have Takata harnesses... I purposely didn't get the harness bar built on because I don't trust the absolute rigidity of the roll bar in the event of a roll over.
I've heard stories of bolt in bars punching through the floor in some cars. The last thing I want is my shoulder harnesses attached to something that is shifting down and pulls very tight against me in the process.
The angle isn't too bad into the rear seat belt anchors (on the bottom - not C-pillar) so I'd rather take my chances with that angle and something I know isn't going to move around than a bolt in roll bar...
Just something to consider.
I'm using a Autopower roll bar now and I have Takata harnesses... I purposely didn't get the harness bar built on because I don't trust the absolute rigidity of the roll bar in the event of a roll over.
I've heard stories of bolt in bars punching through the floor in some cars. The last thing I want is my shoulder harnesses attached to something that is shifting down and pulls very tight against me in the process.
The angle isn't too bad into the rear seat belt anchors (on the bottom - not C-pillar) so I'd rather take my chances with that angle and something I know isn't going to move around than a bolt in roll bar...
Just something to consider.
| 2.5rsracer | 09-05-2003 11:06 AM |
Personally, my opinion on Autpower is just don't get them!
This is your safety we are talking about here. If your budget does not allow for aproper cage, then save some money or borrow.
A properly engineered and designed cage can make the world of difference.
The purpose of a cage is not only to protect the driver, but keep the suspension pickup points intact. What this does is make any suspension tuning more precise and consistant. If your suspension pickup points are moving while you drive, then your geometry cannots be calculated.
You are better off saving $3K and getting a full blow chromoly entry level cage. You can spend upwards of $10K on a fully integrated 10pt FIA spec top end cage for a touring/gt car.
BMW, as well as most other top racing manufactures, sell race ready caged chassis's to the public. VW, BMW, etc so this, and many more are starting. BMW's E46 M3 GT chassis is $25K, and they are now down to about $18.5, and these are no doubt the best cages in thr world for this class of racing.
For $3K you can get a pretty good chromoly custom cage (8pt) in a WRX. Just find a shop that properly designs it in CAD and have them built it for your car, fitted close to the chassis, with the proper tube dimensions and wall thickness's.
If you are going to do it, do it right! :D
Saying that, here are some pics of the BMW Motorsports copy cage in our new toy:
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/24481354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/25443354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/42804354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/59443354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/93543354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/81481354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
This is your safety we are talking about here. If your budget does not allow for aproper cage, then save some money or borrow.
A properly engineered and designed cage can make the world of difference.
The purpose of a cage is not only to protect the driver, but keep the suspension pickup points intact. What this does is make any suspension tuning more precise and consistant. If your suspension pickup points are moving while you drive, then your geometry cannots be calculated.
You are better off saving $3K and getting a full blow chromoly entry level cage. You can spend upwards of $10K on a fully integrated 10pt FIA spec top end cage for a touring/gt car.
BMW, as well as most other top racing manufactures, sell race ready caged chassis's to the public. VW, BMW, etc so this, and many more are starting. BMW's E46 M3 GT chassis is $25K, and they are now down to about $18.5, and these are no doubt the best cages in thr world for this class of racing.
For $3K you can get a pretty good chromoly custom cage (8pt) in a WRX. Just find a shop that properly designs it in CAD and have them built it for your car, fitted close to the chassis, with the proper tube dimensions and wall thickness's.
If you are going to do it, do it right! :D
Saying that, here are some pics of the BMW Motorsports copy cage in our new toy:
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/24481354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/25443354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/42804354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/59443354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/93543354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rpi.edu/~jaffes/WC%20M3/81481354903_0_ALB.jpg[/IMG]
| ScreaminFast | 09-05-2003 01:05 PM |
I know that car....
I was hoping not to spend too much more than $1500 on a good chromoly cage. I'm not sure if this is going to be possible. Cusco makes a 6pt cage, but it doesn't seem like anyone has any information or pictures on it.
I was hoping not to spend too much more than $1500 on a good chromoly cage. I'm not sure if this is going to be possible. Cusco makes a 6pt cage, but it doesn't seem like anyone has any information or pictures on it.
| 2.5rsracer | 09-05-2003 01:24 PM |
For $1500 you can get a pretty basica custom 6point chromoly welded in. WE'll talk later in private about it.
| Warp3 | 09-05-2003 04:53 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jaxx [/i]
[B]no they don't
only in open top cars (i ran one last weekend)[/B][/QUOTE]
When I posted that I was referring to SCCA-sanctioned hillclimbs (which are classified as Solo 1 events and SCCA Solo 1 rules require a rollbar, even for closed cockpit cars). A hillclimb that is not run by an SCCA region, however, is a whole different story.
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
DSP 729 -- CCar Region
[B]no they don't
only in open top cars (i ran one last weekend)[/B][/QUOTE]
When I posted that I was referring to SCCA-sanctioned hillclimbs (which are classified as Solo 1 events and SCCA Solo 1 rules require a rollbar, even for closed cockpit cars). A hillclimb that is not run by an SCCA region, however, is a whole different story.
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
DSP 729 -- CCar Region
| Paisan | 09-07-2003 12:38 AM |
I'm having a custom cage built not far from albany for my '96 impreza. It will be legal for NASA and SCCA. I'll keep you posted once I get it done.
-mike
-mike
| ScreaminFast | 09-07-2003 06:42 PM |
Mike,
please do, and if you need accomodations or anything, you're welcome to stay with me at my apt.... :D
please do, and if you need accomodations or anything, you're welcome to stay with me at my apt.... :D
| Need4Boost | 09-07-2003 07:47 PM |
Could you post some pics of it installed? Any idea of how much extra weight was added with the cage in? Thanks.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ellisnc [/i]
[B]frankly, this is just an opinion but...
I'm using a Autopower roll bar now and I have Takata harnesses... I purposely didn't get the harness bar built on because I don't trust the absolute rigidity of the roll bar in the event of a roll over.
I've heard stories of bolt in bars punching through the floor in some cars. The last thing I want is my shoulder harnesses attached to something that is shifting down and pulls very tight against me in the process.
The angle isn't too bad into the rear seat belt anchors (on the bottom - not C-pillar) so I'd rather take my chances with that angle and something I know isn't going to move around than a bolt in roll bar...
Just something to consider. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ellisnc [/i]
[B]frankly, this is just an opinion but...
I'm using a Autopower roll bar now and I have Takata harnesses... I purposely didn't get the harness bar built on because I don't trust the absolute rigidity of the roll bar in the event of a roll over.
I've heard stories of bolt in bars punching through the floor in some cars. The last thing I want is my shoulder harnesses attached to something that is shifting down and pulls very tight against me in the process.
The angle isn't too bad into the rear seat belt anchors (on the bottom - not C-pillar) so I'd rather take my chances with that angle and something I know isn't going to move around than a bolt in roll bar...
Just something to consider. [/B][/QUOTE]
| 2.5rsracer | 09-07-2003 07:55 PM |
If you are JUST getting a roll BAR (4pt, not entering driver area) You should just get a custom one built. If its from a good shop, it will weigh little, and provide the stability for harness's.
Getting a roll bar by itself does not supply much added structural rigidity, basically you are just putting extra weight in your car. If you are going to the trouble to get a cage put in, you might as well put one in that will do its job and provide the needed safety requirement.
I dont suggest autopower for anything other then looks. Its low quality, entry level setup that does not do much and is more of a hazard then an added safety measure.
You get what you pay for is what it comes down to, and I dont know about you, but if I am throwing in a bunch of steel tubes a couple inches away from my head, it better be designed well and do its job. :D
Getting a roll bar by itself does not supply much added structural rigidity, basically you are just putting extra weight in your car. If you are going to the trouble to get a cage put in, you might as well put one in that will do its job and provide the needed safety requirement.
I dont suggest autopower for anything other then looks. Its low quality, entry level setup that does not do much and is more of a hazard then an added safety measure.
You get what you pay for is what it comes down to, and I dont know about you, but if I am throwing in a bunch of steel tubes a couple inches away from my head, it better be designed well and do its job. :D
| Jack | 09-08-2003 09:23 AM |
I don't agree completely with this. There are plenty of miatas running around with only a rollbar. I guess the thing that comes to mind is that many cars can legally run in their class with no rollbar/cage at all. A rollbar can add some added protection. If the choice is no rollbar/cage or just a rollbar, then I would think that the rollbar is a reasonable option.
I'm in the process right now of building a track-only car out of a Neon. I've done one track event with it so far, as I gut the car and go through the conversion process. I'll do one more this year. I plan to put in either a cage or a bar....have not yet decided. But since I have not changed suspension mounting points and left the engine stock, I'm able to use stock 3 point belts, if I wanted to. (not SCCA, by the way...)
The arguement of cage or nothing sounds like saying that if you don't use a Snell SA 2000 full faced helmet, you should use nothing. I don't agree with that and I'm sure you guys don't either.
I'm quite open for more discussion on this and would greatly appreciate more info. That BMW cage system looks extremely well built. I'm sure it also costs at least 6 times what my Neon is worth.
HI!
jack
I'm in the process right now of building a track-only car out of a Neon. I've done one track event with it so far, as I gut the car and go through the conversion process. I'll do one more this year. I plan to put in either a cage or a bar....have not yet decided. But since I have not changed suspension mounting points and left the engine stock, I'm able to use stock 3 point belts, if I wanted to. (not SCCA, by the way...)
The arguement of cage or nothing sounds like saying that if you don't use a Snell SA 2000 full faced helmet, you should use nothing. I don't agree with that and I'm sure you guys don't either.
I'm quite open for more discussion on this and would greatly appreciate more info. That BMW cage system looks extremely well built. I'm sure it also costs at least 6 times what my Neon is worth.
HI!
jack
| elgorey | 09-08-2003 09:34 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jack ffr1846 [/i]
[B]I don't agree completely with this. There are plenty of miatas running around with only a rollbar. A rollbar can add some added protection. If the choice is no rollbar/cage or just a rollbar, then I would think that the rollbar is a reasonable option.
The arguement of cage or nothing sounds like saying that if you don't use a Snell SA 2000 full faced helmet, you should use nothing. I don't agree with that and I'm sure you guys don't either.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I agree with you Jack. I think what 2.5rsracer says should be taken with a grain of salt considering he builds rollcages, so would obviously rather sell a more expensive cage.
A rollbar delivers 80% of the saftey of a full cage without most of the drawbacks. For example, a fully caged car should not be driven on the street, due to obvious bare-head-hitting-steel-tubes reasons.
[B]I don't agree completely with this. There are plenty of miatas running around with only a rollbar. A rollbar can add some added protection. If the choice is no rollbar/cage or just a rollbar, then I would think that the rollbar is a reasonable option.
The arguement of cage or nothing sounds like saying that if you don't use a Snell SA 2000 full faced helmet, you should use nothing. I don't agree with that and I'm sure you guys don't either.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I agree with you Jack. I think what 2.5rsracer says should be taken with a grain of salt considering he builds rollcages, so would obviously rather sell a more expensive cage.
A rollbar delivers 80% of the saftey of a full cage without most of the drawbacks. For example, a fully caged car should not be driven on the street, due to obvious bare-head-hitting-steel-tubes reasons.
| ScreaminFast | 09-08-2003 10:46 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elgorey [/i]
[B]
I agree with you Jack. I think what 2.5rsracer says should be taken with a grain of salt considering he builds rollcages, so would obviously rather sell a more expensive cage.
A rollbar delivers 80% of the saftey of a full cage without most of the drawbacks. For example, a fully caged car should not be driven on the street, due to obvious bare-head-hitting-steel-tubes reasons. [/B][/QUOTE]
2.5rsracer doesn't have a shop that builds roll cages. He's not a vendor or anything of the sort. He's actually been racing with bmw's and ferraris for at least a few years that I know of.
You're definitely right about not driving the fully caged car on the street, but if were talking about making a trailer queen, track only car, then why not go all out within a certain budget?
[B]
I agree with you Jack. I think what 2.5rsracer says should be taken with a grain of salt considering he builds rollcages, so would obviously rather sell a more expensive cage.
A rollbar delivers 80% of the saftey of a full cage without most of the drawbacks. For example, a fully caged car should not be driven on the street, due to obvious bare-head-hitting-steel-tubes reasons. [/B][/QUOTE]
2.5rsracer doesn't have a shop that builds roll cages. He's not a vendor or anything of the sort. He's actually been racing with bmw's and ferraris for at least a few years that I know of.
You're definitely right about not driving the fully caged car on the street, but if were talking about making a trailer queen, track only car, then why not go all out within a certain budget?
| elgorey | 09-08-2003 01:00 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ScreaminFast [/i]
[B]
2.5rsracer doesn't have a shop that builds roll cages. He's not a vendor or anything of the sort. He's actually been racing with bmw's and ferraris for at least a few years that I know of.
You're definitely right about not driving the fully caged car on the street, but if were talking about making a trailer queen, track only car, then why not go all out within a certain budget? [/B][/QUOTE]
My mistake. It sounded as though he was selling cages and [i]WE'll talk later in private about it.[/i] seemed like he was a vendor.
It was hard to tell your goals from your original post. "Racecar" means a lot of different things to different people, and I didn know what you consider a racecar. While I consider a racecar to be a trailered roadrace only car, some consider their daily driver autoX cars or HPDE cars to be racecars as well, especially since you didnt mention a class to race in. What class are you planning on running in?
For roadracing of course you will need a full cage. While I agree with 2.5rsracer that a custom weld-in is usually better, (in fact a custom welded cage is going in my miata) autopower cages are by no means crap. They are engineered very well have been crash tested countless times.
You should always build the car to the class, not build your car [i]then[/i] find a class. Most classes have cage rules, and that pretty BMW would be illegal in many club racing classes.
Using cro-moly tubing is not something I would recommend, as the impact absorbtion qualities of cromo is not as good as mild steel. Similar to why aluminum is not used in cages anymore after many deaths in the 80s.
This is debatable, but most who are in-the-know recommend mild steel DOM tubing in production based club race cars.
on a sidenote: recently there has started to be a lot of interest in subaru owners to start roadracing their cars, which I think is great! Hopefully SCCA will see the demand and class our cars competitively in some classes.
[B]
2.5rsracer doesn't have a shop that builds roll cages. He's not a vendor or anything of the sort. He's actually been racing with bmw's and ferraris for at least a few years that I know of.
You're definitely right about not driving the fully caged car on the street, but if were talking about making a trailer queen, track only car, then why not go all out within a certain budget? [/B][/QUOTE]
My mistake. It sounded as though he was selling cages and [i]WE'll talk later in private about it.[/i] seemed like he was a vendor.
It was hard to tell your goals from your original post. "Racecar" means a lot of different things to different people, and I didn know what you consider a racecar. While I consider a racecar to be a trailered roadrace only car, some consider their daily driver autoX cars or HPDE cars to be racecars as well, especially since you didnt mention a class to race in. What class are you planning on running in?
For roadracing of course you will need a full cage. While I agree with 2.5rsracer that a custom weld-in is usually better, (in fact a custom welded cage is going in my miata) autopower cages are by no means crap. They are engineered very well have been crash tested countless times.
You should always build the car to the class, not build your car [i]then[/i] find a class. Most classes have cage rules, and that pretty BMW would be illegal in many club racing classes.
Using cro-moly tubing is not something I would recommend, as the impact absorbtion qualities of cromo is not as good as mild steel. Similar to why aluminum is not used in cages anymore after many deaths in the 80s.
This is debatable, but most who are in-the-know recommend mild steel DOM tubing in production based club race cars.
on a sidenote: recently there has started to be a lot of interest in subaru owners to start roadracing their cars, which I think is great! Hopefully SCCA will see the demand and class our cars competitively in some classes.
| 2.5rsracer | 09-08-2003 01:49 PM |
Haha, wow what assumption can lead to...
I said I would talk to him in private because I am friends with him and helping him sort his car out for the track.
I got him into Limerock with SCDA in July, and he's addicted :)
I already suggested he order the scca book now before he builds anything else on his car.
I think many of the statements mentioned on this post were from people who have not been on the track and have not seen what a good and/or bad cage can do.
If you have seent he Autopower crap I have you would never put one in your car, and for the money its just not worth it!
Would you use steelies on the track... I hope not! Why put your safety in risk for a couple extra bucks.
If you want to chat in private aside from the post I would be glad to. I was going to get into SM's as well, I actually found a great regional top 5 contender for $12K with tons of spares. But I decided to go to a faster class and I got an Ex-World Challenge touring car.
Later
P.S. "A rollbar delivers 80% of the saftey of a full cage without most of the drawbacks" I don't agree with that AT ALL!
I said I would talk to him in private because I am friends with him and helping him sort his car out for the track.
I got him into Limerock with SCDA in July, and he's addicted :)
I already suggested he order the scca book now before he builds anything else on his car.
I think many of the statements mentioned on this post were from people who have not been on the track and have not seen what a good and/or bad cage can do.
If you have seent he Autopower crap I have you would never put one in your car, and for the money its just not worth it!
Would you use steelies on the track... I hope not! Why put your safety in risk for a couple extra bucks.
If you want to chat in private aside from the post I would be glad to. I was going to get into SM's as well, I actually found a great regional top 5 contender for $12K with tons of spares. But I decided to go to a faster class and I got an Ex-World Challenge touring car.
Later
P.S. "A rollbar delivers 80% of the saftey of a full cage without most of the drawbacks" I don't agree with that AT ALL!
| elgorey | 09-08-2003 02:16 PM |
that BMW looks uncannily similar to the Bimmerworld world challenge car.....
[IMG]http://www.bimmerworld.com/images/wc03.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.bimmerworld.com/images/wc03.jpg[/IMG]
| ScreaminFast | 09-08-2003 02:50 PM |
It does look similar, but there is no lexan windows on the bimmerworld one.... :D
| kfoote | 09-08-2003 03:33 PM |
IF you are going to go with an autopower bolt in roll bar/cage, it is very imporyatnt to weld reinforcing plates to all the mounting points of the cage to the chassis. They can be OK, but in most cars they can punch through the floor in a rollover. Welding plates in greatly reduces the risk. A welded cage is much safer and much stronger.
PS: Trying not to go into sales mode with the E36 ex WCTC...
PS: Trying not to go into sales mode with the E36 ex WCTC...
| 2.5rsracer | 09-08-2003 04:12 PM |
I would hope it looks like the Bimmerworld cars, we bought its brother :)
We got the #35 Sofronas car :)
Clay's car is a bit more to the extreme of the rules, because they put a LOT of money into it to be competitive this season... hence the sale of Sofronas car [to us].
They both have the same engines, but Clay is a 325 4dr, Ours (sofronas) is a 95 m3 lightweight chassis, only 125 in the country.
Clay's car has a bit moe extreme cage, but thats about it!
I get the car in two weeks, wahoo!
We got the #35 Sofronas car :)
Clay's car is a bit more to the extreme of the rules, because they put a LOT of money into it to be competitive this season... hence the sale of Sofronas car [to us].
They both have the same engines, but Clay is a 325 4dr, Ours (sofronas) is a 95 m3 lightweight chassis, only 125 in the country.
Clay's car has a bit moe extreme cage, but thats about it!
I get the car in two weeks, wahoo!
| elgorey | 09-08-2003 04:17 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 2.5rsracer [/i]
[B]I would hope it looks like the Bimmerworld cars, we bought its brother :)
We got the #35 Sofronas car :)
They both have the same engines, but Clay is a 325 4dr, Ours (sofronas) is a 95 m3 lightweight chassis, only 125 in the country.
Clay's car has a bit moe extreme cage, but thats about it!
I get the car in two weeks, wahoo! [/B][/QUOTE]
hah! no kidding. I knew it! :p
My good friend Channing worked for bimmerworld up until about 2 weeks ago when he moved to Atlanta.
I always root for them, and Clay has been doing pretty well this year.
[B]I would hope it looks like the Bimmerworld cars, we bought its brother :)
We got the #35 Sofronas car :)
They both have the same engines, but Clay is a 325 4dr, Ours (sofronas) is a 95 m3 lightweight chassis, only 125 in the country.
Clay's car has a bit moe extreme cage, but thats about it!
I get the car in two weeks, wahoo! [/B][/QUOTE]
hah! no kidding. I knew it! :p
My good friend Channing worked for bimmerworld up until about 2 weeks ago when he moved to Atlanta.
I always root for them, and Clay has been doing pretty well this year.
| 2.5rsracer | 09-08-2003 04:42 PM |
Hehe glad we got that straightened out.
Yea I am going to learn the car next year, and try to get in a couple races, but I first have to learn the car, and most importantly set it up to run slicks, which should take me a full day at the track, if not more. Its setup for thos POS toyo's, So once i run out the ones currently on the car (2 sets, should be 2 events worth), I will slap some Yoko S0-1 slicks on and set the car up for the slicks per track, most likely using a nuetral spring rate, but we'll see. I got 10 sets of springs with the car ;)
Yea I am going to learn the car next year, and try to get in a couple races, but I first have to learn the car, and most importantly set it up to run slicks, which should take me a full day at the track, if not more. Its setup for thos POS toyo's, So once i run out the ones currently on the car (2 sets, should be 2 events worth), I will slap some Yoko S0-1 slicks on and set the car up for the slicks per track, most likely using a nuetral spring rate, but we'll see. I got 10 sets of springs with the car ;)
| kfoote | 09-08-2003 05:18 PM |
ok, I can't resist any longer... I work for Turner Motorsport, so I am somewhat familiar with the car. It was kind of neat to see Clay and Richmond going side by side through turn 11 in the dirt at Laguna during practice. There was someone who was in the process of losing an engine, but I had never thought of an E36 as a rally car until then. ;)
| elgorey | 09-09-2003 07:57 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kfoote [/i]
[B]ok, I can't resist any longer... I work for Turner Motorsport, so I am somewhat familiar with the car. ... but I had never thought of an E36 as a rally car until then. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
The enemy! :p :lol:
And I had never thought of an E46 as a battering ram until I saw Auberlen push cars off the track during his little comeback charge at RA..... :p
[B]ok, I can't resist any longer... I work for Turner Motorsport, so I am somewhat familiar with the car. ... but I had never thought of an E36 as a rally car until then. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
The enemy! :p :lol:
And I had never thought of an E46 as a battering ram until I saw Auberlen push cars off the track during his little comeback charge at RA..... :p
| kfoote | 09-09-2003 11:46 AM |
I still haven't seen the Road America race on TV yet because of SPEED channel's decision to air the races while we're at the next race. I have heard that they took the most exciting race of the season and took most of the excitement out of it.
Though I should have learned by now that ANYTHING can happen at a WC event. I never would have guessed that Pierre Kleinubing would have problems 3 races in a row, either.
[QUOTE]The enemy! [/QUOTE]
:lol:
I haven't heard that since one of the other crew members and I crew cheifed competing ITS cars in the 12 hours of Summit Point this year. Their E36's were faster, but we managed to eek our Miata to 2nd overall, 2 laps behind a Porsche 993 Supercup car that was slowing and trying to not run out of fuel.
Though I should have learned by now that ANYTHING can happen at a WC event. I never would have guessed that Pierre Kleinubing would have problems 3 races in a row, either.
[QUOTE]The enemy! [/QUOTE]
:lol:
I haven't heard that since one of the other crew members and I crew cheifed competing ITS cars in the 12 hours of Summit Point this year. Their E36's were faster, but we managed to eek our Miata to 2nd overall, 2 laps behind a Porsche 993 Supercup car that was slowing and trying to not run out of fuel.
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