| blue blurr | 02-28-2006 09:22 PM |
Harness: Sparco 6pt worth the $100+ over G-FORCE 6pt?
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Since I recently installed my roll bar, it's time to look for a harness to order soon. I was originally going to get the Sparco 4pt, but you guys talked me into a 5point, so then I said the hell with it, I'll get a 6pt. So... the Sparco 6pt is around 250 while the G-force is about 150. Is the Sparco ( made by Schroth) worth the 100 dollars more then the G-force?
G-force
[url]http://www.racerwholesale.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_70&products_id=333[/url]
Sparco
[url]http://subydude.com/osc/product_info.php/cPath/220_91_217/products_id/392?osCsid=4c579ca29f7e02b213845326e478a09c[/url]
G-force
[url]http://www.racerwholesale.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_70&products_id=333[/url]
Sparco
[url]http://subydude.com/osc/product_info.php/cPath/220_91_217/products_id/392?osCsid=4c579ca29f7e02b213845326e478a09c[/url]
| RedTRex | 02-28-2006 10:37 PM |
IMO 5 point is enough for AUTO-X.....I got the G-sport (the better model) to my door for $102 from Jegs, in 3 days even.....
[url="http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=28835&parentCategoryId=10495&langId=-1"]http://www.jegs.com[/url]
the 5 point for 79.99, plus floor hardware etc....raced with it this past Sun, and it was perfect.....:)
6 point only 5 bucks more if you really want it.....
[url="http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=28835&parentCategoryId=10495&langId=-1"]http://www.jegs.com[/url]
the 5 point for 79.99, plus floor hardware etc....raced with it this past Sun, and it was perfect.....:)
6 point only 5 bucks more if you really want it.....
| blue blurr | 02-28-2006 10:39 PM |
I dont do auto-x, it's for the track.
| trhoppe | 02-28-2006 10:42 PM |
I bet you could get chicks with the Sparco.
If thats your priority get it. Otherwise spend your $$ on stuff like brake pads, tires and entry fees.
Also, get the pull up. Its betterer. Especially once you get a real seat.
-Tom
If thats your priority get it. Otherwise spend your $$ on stuff like brake pads, tires and entry fees.
Also, get the pull up. Its betterer. Especially once you get a real seat.
-Tom
| blue blurr | 02-28-2006 11:12 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]I bet you could get chicks with the Sparco.
If thats your priority get it. Otherwise spend your $$ on stuff like brake pads, tires and entry fees.
Also, get the pull up. Its betterer. Especially once you get a real seat.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
I have a Sparco Evo, I was planning on getting the pull up, but reading somewhere it says it's only SFI rated, the pull down is SFI and FIA. Although I dont think that really matters since I'm not club racing.
If thats your priority get it. Otherwise spend your $$ on stuff like brake pads, tires and entry fees.
Also, get the pull up. Its betterer. Especially once you get a real seat.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
I have a Sparco Evo, I was planning on getting the pull up, but reading somewhere it says it's only SFI rated, the pull down is SFI and FIA. Although I dont think that really matters since I'm not club racing.
| trhoppe | 02-28-2006 11:19 PM |
Even if you are club racing you need the SFI ratings :) SCCA or NASA doesn't care if belts/suits are FIA as long as they are SFI.
-Tom
-Tom
| blue blurr | 02-28-2006 11:28 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Even if you are club racing you need the SFI ratings :) SCCA or NASA doesn't care if belts/suits are FIA as long as they are SFI.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Well I know that, haha. I ment since I am not racing, I dont think it matters that they are not FIA rated.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Well I know that, haha. I ment since I am not racing, I dont think it matters that they are not FIA rated.
| trhoppe | 02-28-2006 11:47 PM |
What I'm saying is that even if you WERE to start racing, the SFI only rated belts would be OK. In the US, it doesn't matter if belts or suits are FIA rated, organizations only care about SFI ratings.
-Tom
-Tom
| Craigs | 03-01-2006 12:16 AM |
Not the most helpful post. But polyester vs nylon belts makes a difference. I can't remember which is better, but a quick search will find you an answer.
EDIT:
Stolen from [url]http://www.justracing.com/seminar_archives/viewtopic.php?t=5[/url]
"justracing: leggwork asks: what is the difference between a $95 six-point harness like Crow vs. the several hundred dollar ones?
joemarko: First is the material. The Crow is made from Nylon webbing. I would guess that in the next 5 years you won't find a Nylon belt any more. Simpson no longer makes Nylon belts. G-Force has started offering Polyester and Safecraft is only polyester.
joemarko: Nylon webbing is significantly weakend by UV exposure, moisture, oil, etc. Polyester is much less effected by these
joemarko: Also the difference is in the hardware. A Schroth belt is probably 1lb less in weight than the Crow belt. The hardware is custom to the application - not off the shelf.
joemarko: Weight of the adjuster is important as these often contact the body. THe larger the hardware the more likely it is to cause bruising or injury"
EDIT:
Stolen from [url]http://www.justracing.com/seminar_archives/viewtopic.php?t=5[/url]
"justracing: leggwork asks: what is the difference between a $95 six-point harness like Crow vs. the several hundred dollar ones?
joemarko: First is the material. The Crow is made from Nylon webbing. I would guess that in the next 5 years you won't find a Nylon belt any more. Simpson no longer makes Nylon belts. G-Force has started offering Polyester and Safecraft is only polyester.
joemarko: Nylon webbing is significantly weakend by UV exposure, moisture, oil, etc. Polyester is much less effected by these
joemarko: Also the difference is in the hardware. A Schroth belt is probably 1lb less in weight than the Crow belt. The hardware is custom to the application - not off the shelf.
joemarko: Weight of the adjuster is important as these often contact the body. THe larger the hardware the more likely it is to cause bruising or injury"
| turboICE | 03-01-2006 01:03 AM |
I don't know that organizations only care about SFI ratings... When applicable for instance on driver suites while the SCCA accepts SFI - they recommend FIA.
That said there is nothing wrong with SFI harnesses - only with the SFI standard. In order to better serve their manufacturers they are only good for 2 years rather than FIA's 5 years. Most think a harness made to SFI would last 5 years just as well. And looking at the standards I think you are just as safe using either standard (of the most importance to me). If cost is your factor divide SFI harness by 2 years and FIA by 5 and get your per year cost. I am not aware of any harness with an FIA rating that is not SFI rated, there are SFI only harnesses though.
BTW another good alternative is Sabelt (made sparco before scrhoth).
6 point is really not necessary or of added benefit (unless more comfortable) in an upright production body it was developed for layback seating. 5 point is just as safe go with it unless less comfortable.
That said there is nothing wrong with SFI harnesses - only with the SFI standard. In order to better serve their manufacturers they are only good for 2 years rather than FIA's 5 years. Most think a harness made to SFI would last 5 years just as well. And looking at the standards I think you are just as safe using either standard (of the most importance to me). If cost is your factor divide SFI harness by 2 years and FIA by 5 and get your per year cost. I am not aware of any harness with an FIA rating that is not SFI rated, there are SFI only harnesses though.
BTW another good alternative is Sabelt (made sparco before scrhoth).
6 point is really not necessary or of added benefit (unless more comfortable) in an upright production body it was developed for layback seating. 5 point is just as safe go with it unless less comfortable.
| Craigs | 03-01-2006 01:09 AM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]
6 point is really not necessary or of added benefit (unless more comfortable) in an upright production body it was developed for layback seating. 5 point is just as safe go with it unless less comfortable.[/QUOTE]
5 vs. 6
From the instructions included with Schroth sub belts:
"5-point racing harnesses are less safe, proven by computer simulation, sled testing and in real world accidents. Therefore SCHROTH strongly recommends the use of 6-point racing harnesses only."
6 point is really not necessary or of added benefit (unless more comfortable) in an upright production body it was developed for layback seating. 5 point is just as safe go with it unless less comfortable.[/QUOTE]
5 vs. 6
From the instructions included with Schroth sub belts:
"5-point racing harnesses are less safe, proven by computer simulation, sled testing and in real world accidents. Therefore SCHROTH strongly recommends the use of 6-point racing harnesses only."
| turboICE | 03-01-2006 01:12 AM |
Good additional information that is different than what I had seen before and I stand corrected.
I wonder why they still make a 5 point then.
I would like to see the sled tests that determined that - because computer simulation doesn't matter in safety matters...
I wonder if FIA and SFI are going to update for these sled test results - because they all care about safety of the driver above any commercial interests. ;)
I wonder why they still make a 5 point then.
I would like to see the sled tests that determined that - because computer simulation doesn't matter in safety matters...
I wonder if FIA and SFI are going to update for these sled test results - because they all care about safety of the driver above any commercial interests. ;)
| trhoppe | 03-01-2006 05:47 AM |
Holey moley! I didn't know that 5 vs 2.
"Restraint systems complying with FIA specification 8853/1985 including amendment 1/92 shall be no more than five (5) years old."
-Tom
"Restraint systems complying with FIA specification 8853/1985 including amendment 1/92 shall be no more than five (5) years old."
-Tom
| turboICE | 03-01-2006 07:27 AM |
I don't know if the G-Force belt linked to at the start is 8853/1985 or not, it mentions FIA but not 8853.
For arguments sake lets say for now G-Force is only SFI.
Sparco $250/5 = $50/year
G-Force $150/2 = $75/year
I have never used G-Force but I have installed them for others and one thing I really like is the strips on the adjusters they make it a lot easier to loosen.
Either one you linked would be good and for a difference of $3 - $10 between 5 vs 6 point and assuming Schroth's claim is true (why not assume so for the small price diff), I think the big question is will the G-Force be permitted for 2 years or 5 years.
Oh as a final consideration keep in mind I believe the G-Force comes with bolt in ends for the lap belt, Sparco are sold seperately and cost and additional $10-$15 I think.
For arguments sake lets say for now G-Force is only SFI.
Sparco $250/5 = $50/year
G-Force $150/2 = $75/year
I have never used G-Force but I have installed them for others and one thing I really like is the strips on the adjusters they make it a lot easier to loosen.
Either one you linked would be good and for a difference of $3 - $10 between 5 vs 6 point and assuming Schroth's claim is true (why not assume so for the small price diff), I think the big question is will the G-Force be permitted for 2 years or 5 years.
Oh as a final consideration keep in mind I believe the G-Force comes with bolt in ends for the lap belt, Sparco are sold seperately and cost and additional $10-$15 I think.
| Pghrally | 03-01-2006 08:27 AM |
There are FIA rated G-Force harnesses.... just an FYI.
So their yearly cost would drop dramatically....
So their yearly cost would drop dramatically....
| blue blurr | 03-01-2006 09:58 AM |
The pull down G-force is FIA rated, but not the pull up. That was my original statement about them not being FIA rated. I�ve been told that Pull up is much easier then pull down, the only downside is that it's not FIA rated. I will probably just go with a 6pt, even though it is probably overkill then a 4 point for HPDE, i have heard that they are much safer, and you can actually tighten down the shoulder belts and not have the lap belts come up on you. I'll do a little more research, but I may just go with the sparco belt.
PS, Anyone know of online sites that have Sabelts?
PS, Anyone know of online sites that have Sabelts?
| turboICE | 03-01-2006 10:01 AM |
[QUOTE=Pghrally]There are FIA rated G-Force harnesses.... just an FYI.
So their yearly cost would drop dramatically....[/QUOTE]
That they would.
If I was buying now based on an FIA rating and what I have seen installing others, I would go with the G-Force. As someone with Sparco (sabelt, not schroth) currently - I like the speed tabs and grip rolls on the G-Force and wish I had them in currently.
So their yearly cost would drop dramatically....[/QUOTE]
That they would.
If I was buying now based on an FIA rating and what I have seen installing others, I would go with the G-Force. As someone with Sparco (sabelt, not schroth) currently - I like the speed tabs and grip rolls on the G-Force and wish I had them in currently.
| turboICE | 03-01-2006 10:05 AM |
[QUOTE=blue blurr]I will probably just go with a 6pt, even though it is probably overkill then a 4 point for HPDE, i have heard that they are much safer, and you can actually tighten down the shoulder belts and not have the lap belts come up on you.[/quote]I think the instructor and his passenger out in CA last year that submarined under their 4 points, impacting a wall would disagree. I would link the many page discussion but it was removed (not just closed) at the request of the victims.
[quote]I'll do a little more research[/QUOTE]More research can only be a good thing in the area of safety.
[QUOTE=blue blurr]PS, Anyone know of online sites that have Sabelts?[/QUOTE]Google is your friend - Driving Impressions is the only US dealer listed on their site.
[url]http://www.sabelt.com/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=229[/url]
$280 and up.
[quote]I'll do a little more research[/QUOTE]More research can only be a good thing in the area of safety.
[QUOTE=blue blurr]PS, Anyone know of online sites that have Sabelts?[/QUOTE]Google is your friend - Driving Impressions is the only US dealer listed on their site.
[url]http://www.sabelt.com/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=229[/url]
$280 and up.
| Pghrally | 03-01-2006 02:57 PM |
[QUOTE=blue blurr]The pull down G-force is FIA rated, but not the pull up. That was my original statement about them not being FIA rated. I�ve been told that Pull up is much easier then pull down, the only downside is that it's not FIA rated. I will probably just go with a 6pt, even though it is probably overkill then a 4 point for HPDE, i have heard that they are much safer, and you can actually tighten down the shoulder belts and not have the lap belts come up on you. I'll do a little more research, but I may just go with the sparco belt.
PS, Anyone know of online sites that have Sabelts?[/QUOTE]
Pull up belts are easier in tight seating situations, like a formula car. Pull down are fine when you have room on either side of your seat, like with stock seats.
For a nice overview of belts and brands, you could check out [url]www.demon-tweeks.com[/url] probably not cost effective, but at least they are all in one place to see.
PS, Anyone know of online sites that have Sabelts?[/QUOTE]
Pull up belts are easier in tight seating situations, like a formula car. Pull down are fine when you have room on either side of your seat, like with stock seats.
For a nice overview of belts and brands, you could check out [url]www.demon-tweeks.com[/url] probably not cost effective, but at least they are all in one place to see.
| trhoppe | 03-01-2006 03:51 PM |
Pull down is fine with stock seats, but not with a race seat such as an EVO
-Tom
-Tom
| blue blurr | 03-01-2006 06:18 PM |
Alright, Thanks alot for the info. Ill check out some more sites, but probably will end up with G-force.
| Do_It_Sidewayz | 03-01-2006 08:12 PM |
i picked up the G-forces for my Rally car when the old belts were out dated.
For the price....they are great, and i think they are WAY better than the sparcos they replaced.
The grip rolls are awesome, along with the pull tabs on the adjusters.
Really nice harnesses, at a great price
For the price....they are great, and i think they are WAY better than the sparcos they replaced.
The grip rolls are awesome, along with the pull tabs on the adjusters.
Really nice harnesses, at a great price
| grippgoat | 03-01-2006 08:14 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Pull down is fine with stock seats, but not with a race seat such as an EVO
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Could you clarify? I'm not really familiar with the issue. I've got a Recaro speed, and stock STI seats have harness holes.... Would they also be an issue with pull-down?
-Mike
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Could you clarify? I'm not really familiar with the issue. I've got a Recaro speed, and stock STI seats have harness holes.... Would they also be an issue with pull-down?
-Mike
| Butt Dyno | 03-01-2006 08:35 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Pull down is fine with stock seats, but not with a race seat such as an EVO
-Tom[/QUOTE]Are you saying pull down is awkward, or unsafe?
-Tom[/QUOTE]Are you saying pull down is awkward, or unsafe?
| trhoppe | 03-01-2006 09:11 PM |
No no, its not unsafe. It is a bit akward with a bucket seat. With a pull down you have to pull down and back on the harness to tighten. When you are stuffed into a bucket seat its hard to get tight, and sometimes if you are thinner, its impossible as the buckles on the harness go all the way to the side seat holes. Also, if you ever want to adjust yourself tighter with a pull down, and you have your window net up, your helmet/hans on, your gloves on, your shoulder belts tight, its pretty much impossible.
-Tom
-Tom
| trhoppe | 03-01-2006 09:12 PM |
Also to clarify, you want the pull down shoulder belt, but you want the pull UP lap belt.
-Tom
-Tom
| Butt Dyno | 03-01-2006 09:25 PM |
Gotcha. I was gonna say.. I have Sparco Evos in the Miata w/ 6-point pull downs, but there's no problem at all with the shoulder belts. The lap belts are a little pesky, but not that bad.
| blue blurr | 03-01-2006 11:21 PM |
So this is the G-FORCE I am probably going to order, is this the right one? I'm assuming its 3", but I just want to make sure.
[url]http://www.racerwholesale.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_70&products_id=334[/url]
[url]http://www.racerwholesale.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_70&products_id=334[/url]
| chrisallen76 | 03-02-2006 05:28 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Pull down is fine with stock seats, but not with a race seat such as an EVO
-Tom[/QUOTE]
I have the G-Force FIA approved Pull-Down & a Sparco EVO and it is not a problem with the pull-down lap belt (or any of the belts for that matter). It's all about how much adjustment you put in the belts when you bolt them into the car. (You have adjustment on both ends of the belts) If I had too much extra belt to pull down on my lap, it would be a pain with the bucket seat; but you can avoid that by having the extra stick out of the adjuster on the clamped in end.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
I have the G-Force FIA approved Pull-Down & a Sparco EVO and it is not a problem with the pull-down lap belt (or any of the belts for that matter). It's all about how much adjustment you put in the belts when you bolt them into the car. (You have adjustment on both ends of the belts) If I had too much extra belt to pull down on my lap, it would be a pain with the bucket seat; but you can avoid that by having the extra stick out of the adjuster on the clamped in end.
| trhoppe | 03-02-2006 06:48 PM |
orly?
The impact racing belts i have are only adjustable on one end. ie. the camlock to the adjustment point distance is fixed.
-Tom
The impact racing belts i have are only adjustable on one end. ie. the camlock to the adjustment point distance is fixed.
-Tom
| blue blurr | 03-02-2006 09:44 PM |
Ordered the above belt :) (pull up)
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