| chimchimm5 | 10-27-2006 06:03 PM |
Is non-competitiveness frowned upon in autox?
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I used to think I wanted to do my best to stay in a class I could eventually "compete" in, as it chase the leader times as a goal (I knew it would be a very long time before I would every dream of leading a class). But after going a couple times, I found that I'm choosing to run in a class that is simply most convenient, time of day wise.
Basically, I've given up on "being competitive".
I will however, continue to go for the fun, thrill, and improvement of my skills. But I get the feeling that people like me "are frowned upon" by serious autox'ers. Like people like me are just "crowding the events".
Is it?
In the meantime, I'm loving my daily driver with both sway bars, strut bar. As soon as I get time, I'm going to get those cowl stays on, buy AP2 when it comes out, and get a WL comfort ALK. I love driving my car even more with these mods on my commute, driving the family, going to the grocery store, or running the hills. I guess if I get serious about autox, I'll get a '89 Civic Si hatch and use it just for that.
Basically, I've given up on "being competitive".
I will however, continue to go for the fun, thrill, and improvement of my skills. But I get the feeling that people like me "are frowned upon" by serious autox'ers. Like people like me are just "crowding the events".
Is it?
In the meantime, I'm loving my daily driver with both sway bars, strut bar. As soon as I get time, I'm going to get those cowl stays on, buy AP2 when it comes out, and get a WL comfort ALK. I love driving my car even more with these mods on my commute, driving the family, going to the grocery store, or running the hills. I guess if I get serious about autox, I'll get a '89 Civic Si hatch and use it just for that.
| RainMaker | 10-27-2006 06:20 PM |
No, absolutely not.
If someone actually has a problem with ANYONE coming and competing in a category that they fit in (even if its a stock car in SM), then they need to check themselves.
In our region, Ive found nothing but extremely friendly people, any of whom are willing to share any ideas or advice they have.
Im sure at Nats its a whole different ballgame... but until you GET to Nats, I sure hope you dont have issues.
The fellow that gave me the best competition this year in SM could have been in AStock. I'm glad he came and gave me a run for my (well modified :( ) money.
If someone actually has a problem with ANYONE coming and competing in a category that they fit in (even if its a stock car in SM), then they need to check themselves.
In our region, Ive found nothing but extremely friendly people, any of whom are willing to share any ideas or advice they have.
Im sure at Nats its a whole different ballgame... but until you GET to Nats, I sure hope you dont have issues.
The fellow that gave me the best competition this year in SM could have been in AStock. I'm glad he came and gave me a run for my (well modified :( ) money.
| Fred | 10-27-2006 06:29 PM |
You need to stop spazzing out about everything and relax. :lol:
Some people frown upon guys like me who no longer take autox seriously and just go out to see how sideways we can get the car without spinning it. But I don't give a ****. :)
Some people frown upon guys like me who no longer take autox seriously and just go out to see how sideways we can get the car without spinning it. But I don't give a ****. :)
| Butt Dyno | 10-27-2006 07:08 PM |
[QUOTE=RainMaker;15776838]If someone actually has a problem with ANYONE coming and competing in a category that they fit in (even if its a stock car in SM), then they need to check themselves.[/QUOTE]/thread
| shemoves | 10-27-2006 07:16 PM |
When I started autox, I pretty much planned on not being competitive. I've got some simple mods that bump me all the way up to EM (Cusco underbrace and carbon trunk), so I definitely just go for fun and skill improvement.
Nice thing about just being in EM from the start, I can basically do what ever I want to the car and never have to worry about getting bumped into a higher class :D
Nice thing about just being in EM from the start, I can basically do what ever I want to the car and never have to worry about getting bumped into a higher class :D
| Kostamojen | 10-27-2006 07:17 PM |
More people = more event money = more events.
Anyone who hates on other people at auto-x's (unless they drive so horribly they endanger peoples lives is of course the exeption) has serious issues...
Anyone who hates on other people at auto-x's (unless they drive so horribly they endanger peoples lives is of course the exeption) has serious issues...
| WRXedUSA | 10-27-2006 07:22 PM |
[QUOTE=Kostamojen;15777428]More people = more event money = more events.
Anyone who hates on other people at auto-x's (unless they drive so horribly they endanger peoples lives is of course the exeption) has serious issues...[/QUOTE]
Our region has serious issues.
:lol:
Anyone who hates on other people at auto-x's (unless they drive so horribly they endanger peoples lives is of course the exeption) has serious issues...[/QUOTE]
Our region has serious issues.
:lol:
| steverife | 10-27-2006 08:12 PM |
I think a lot of people LIKE non-competitive people in their class. That means more "trophies".
| XenoWolf | 10-27-2006 09:10 PM |
[QUOTE=steverife;15777946]That means more "kills".[/QUOTE]
Fixed.
Fixed.
| KC | 10-27-2006 09:17 PM |
Just as long as you show up for your work assignment on time (or earlier), and don't, in general hold up the event... welcome! :)
| siopao2000 | 10-27-2006 11:05 PM |
I run in SM with a pretty much stock WRX wagon. The only thing that put me in SM is my AccessPort. Everyone in SM is cool so I didn't bother flashing a stock map to go to DS.
I started autocrossing to learn how to control my car. Now it's just to improve on certain skills. Hopefully I can be competative sometime next season.
SM stands for "slightly modified" right? :p
I also think I'm faster on RE92's. :lol:
I started autocrossing to learn how to control my car. Now it's just to improve on certain skills. Hopefully I can be competative sometime next season.
SM stands for "slightly modified" right? :p
I also think I'm faster on RE92's. :lol:
| Protege Menace | 10-27-2006 11:16 PM |
our autocross group started blooming until a year ago when you HAD to register online 1-6 months beforehand to even get in. so yes, many people were a problem.
| ryan j | 10-28-2006 12:04 AM |
[QUOTE=Protege Menace;15779444]our autocross group started blooming until a year ago when you HAD to register online 1-6 months beforehand to even get in. so yes, many people were a problem.[/QUOTE]
How many of those people never even show up? Alot. Not a great system IMO. If you decide to go last minute, you have to camp out overnight to get on a waiting list, then wait another couple of hours to see who on the waiting list gets to run. Although if you do show up with an Escort Cosworth, they'll let you run regardless if it's full or not. :)
How many of those people never even show up? Alot. Not a great system IMO. If you decide to go last minute, you have to camp out overnight to get on a waiting list, then wait another couple of hours to see who on the waiting list gets to run. Although if you do show up with an Escort Cosworth, they'll let you run regardless if it's full or not. :)
| Type1 | 10-28-2006 12:11 AM |
as long as youre not street racing and doing smokey burnouts racing school buses in front of cross walks you can be as non-competitive at the track as you wanna be!!
| adhowe70 | 10-28-2006 12:36 AM |
[QUOTE=RainMaker;15776838]No, absolutely not.
If someone actually has a problem with ANYONE coming and competing in a category that they fit in (even if its a stock car in SM), then they need to check themselves.
In our region, Ive found nothing but extremely friendly people, any of whom are willing to share any ideas or advice they have.
Im sure at Nats its a whole different ballgame... but until you GET to Nats, I sure hope you dont have issues.
The fellow that gave me the best competition this year in SM could have been in AStock. I'm glad he came and gave me a run for my (well modified :( ) money.[/QUOTE]
And even Nats has the same attitude... there is no pressure to be competitive beyond what you WANT to do. The sport is as easy or as hard as YOU want to make it. That means YOU decide what the sport means to YOU. (Now, at Nats you have to respect other's routines a bit more than at home...)
Unless you're holding up the show or acting like an assclown, we'll take your money and help put a smile on your face. We don't care what your car, class, experience, etc. Just that you have fun and help make it fun for others.
If someone actually has a problem with ANYONE coming and competing in a category that they fit in (even if its a stock car in SM), then they need to check themselves.
In our region, Ive found nothing but extremely friendly people, any of whom are willing to share any ideas or advice they have.
Im sure at Nats its a whole different ballgame... but until you GET to Nats, I sure hope you dont have issues.
The fellow that gave me the best competition this year in SM could have been in AStock. I'm glad he came and gave me a run for my (well modified :( ) money.[/QUOTE]
And even Nats has the same attitude... there is no pressure to be competitive beyond what you WANT to do. The sport is as easy or as hard as YOU want to make it. That means YOU decide what the sport means to YOU. (Now, at Nats you have to respect other's routines a bit more than at home...)
Unless you're holding up the show or acting like an assclown, we'll take your money and help put a smile on your face. We don't care what your car, class, experience, etc. Just that you have fun and help make it fun for others.
| chimchimm5 | 10-28-2006 02:40 AM |
This is all good to hear.
But also just to clarify, everyone I've come across have all been really nice. I've just over heard some conversations that gave me the impression that it seemed strange to them that one wouldn't want to be "striving for the trophy"; or that (the noncompetitive people) were the noise to wade through or people necessary for their fees, but just make the run groups take longer.
No big deal. Nothing hostile. Just thinking out loud question.
But also just to clarify, everyone I've come across have all been really nice. I've just over heard some conversations that gave me the impression that it seemed strange to them that one wouldn't want to be "striving for the trophy"; or that (the noncompetitive people) were the noise to wade through or people necessary for their fees, but just make the run groups take longer.
No big deal. Nothing hostile. Just thinking out loud question.
| waktasz | 10-28-2006 11:34 AM |
[QUOTE=siopao2000;15779355]I run in SM with a pretty much stock WRX wagon. The only thing that put me in SM is my AccessPort. Everyone in SM is cool so I didn't bother flashing a stock map to go to DS.
I started autocrossing to learn how to control my car. Now it's just to improve on certain skills. Hopefully I can be competative sometime next season.
SM stands for "slightly modified" right? :p
I also think I'm faster on RE92's. :lol:[/QUOTE]
You should run in ESP then :)
I started autocrossing to learn how to control my car. Now it's just to improve on certain skills. Hopefully I can be competative sometime next season.
SM stands for "slightly modified" right? :p
I also think I'm faster on RE92's. :lol:[/QUOTE]
You should run in ESP then :)
| nKoan | 10-28-2006 12:36 PM |
[QUOTE=siopao2000;15779355]I run in SM with a pretty much stock WRX wagon. The only thing that put me in SM is my AccessPort. Everyone in SM is cool so I didn't bother flashing a stock map to go to DS.
I started autocrossing to learn how to control my car. Now it's just to improve on certain skills. Hopefully I can be competative sometime next season.
SM stands for "slightly modified" right? :p
I also think I'm faster on RE92's. :lol:[/QUOTE]
You can run in street prepared with an AP. ESP, I think.
EDIT: Beat!
I started autocrossing to learn how to control my car. Now it's just to improve on certain skills. Hopefully I can be competative sometime next season.
SM stands for "slightly modified" right? :p
I also think I'm faster on RE92's. :lol:[/QUOTE]
You can run in street prepared with an AP. ESP, I think.
EDIT: Beat!
| Protege Menace | 10-28-2006 01:03 PM |
[quote=ryan j;15779840]How many of those people never even show up? Alot. Not a great system IMO. If you decide to go last minute, you have to camp out overnight to get on a waiting list, then wait another couple of hours to see who on the waiting list gets to run. Although if you do show up with an Escort Cosworth, they'll let you run regardless if it's full or not. :)[/quote]
yeah. I gave up on atucross about this time last year. not worth the hassle anymore (both reg and events themselves)
yeah. I gave up on atucross about this time last year. not worth the hassle anymore (both reg and events themselves)
| akuhner | 10-28-2006 01:08 PM |
[QUOTE=chimchimm5;15776663]But I get the feeling that people like me "are frowned upon" by serious [I]egotistic morons[/I]. Like people like me are just [I]"paying entry fees that pay the bills"[/I].[/QUOTE]
Fixed! :D
Fixed! :D
| omaha03wrx | 10-28-2006 01:14 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA;15777485]Our region has serious issues.
:lol:[/QUOTE]
duh :lol:
:lol:[/QUOTE]
duh :lol:
| the_poser | 10-28-2006 01:14 PM |
at our local event they even tell you at the drivers meeting, "if you feel the need to humiliate one of you friends in a different class, tell us now so we can get your times in the right place"
so far everyone I have come into contact with at auto-x events is really cool, and helpfull
so far everyone I have come into contact with at auto-x events is really cool, and helpfull
| Impala SS AutoXer | 10-28-2006 01:27 PM |
As one who helps run the events from the organizational side, I'll comment here...
Running in a class you feel comfortable with, even if non-competitive? Absolutely fine. Running in a class because your friends run there? Excellent!
What screws it up is when folks decide to run in "the early morning class"....meaning they just run early EVERY time. So they'll run SM one event because that is early, STX the next event because it is early, DS the next event because it is early, etc.
Do it just once or twice because of special circumstances, not a big deal.
When you get a bunch of people doing this EVERY event, it unbalances the rungroups AND ends up screwing their fellow competitors who suddenly have a rungroup that is too small to sufficiently work their work group. Making life difficult for your fellow competitors is the definite "not cool" part of this IMHO.
Guess what I'm saying is just pick a class and stick with it :). You'll find that a lot of the fun is running with the same people event after event, being able to compare your times to their times and judge improvement that way.
(plays region solo chief in real life ;) )
Running in a class you feel comfortable with, even if non-competitive? Absolutely fine. Running in a class because your friends run there? Excellent!
What screws it up is when folks decide to run in "the early morning class"....meaning they just run early EVERY time. So they'll run SM one event because that is early, STX the next event because it is early, DS the next event because it is early, etc.
Do it just once or twice because of special circumstances, not a big deal.
When you get a bunch of people doing this EVERY event, it unbalances the rungroups AND ends up screwing their fellow competitors who suddenly have a rungroup that is too small to sufficiently work their work group. Making life difficult for your fellow competitors is the definite "not cool" part of this IMHO.
Guess what I'm saying is just pick a class and stick with it :). You'll find that a lot of the fun is running with the same people event after event, being able to compare your times to their times and judge improvement that way.
(plays region solo chief in real life ;) )
| siopao2000 | 10-28-2006 06:56 PM |
^^ I've been going to every other event so I'm always in SM running in the morning.
| Kostamojen | 10-28-2006 10:03 PM |
Sometimes when its 100+ out, afternoon runs are just too much for some people...
But personally, I dont care.
But personally, I dont care.
| jcroy66 | 10-29-2006 06:34 AM |
In our region, we figure out who runs when AFTER registration closes, to ensure balanced run groups.
| CamaroFS34 | 10-29-2006 12:29 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;15780069]Unless you're holding up the show or acting like an assclown, we'll take your money and help put a smile on your face.[/QUOTE]
+1
I know I personally don't like drifters who come out to an autocross and treat it like a drifting test-n-tune. But someone who is out to have fun, and doesn't try e-braking around every turn, and is willing to learn and do the best they can with the car and setup they have? No problem! :cool:
Karen
+1
I know I personally don't like drifters who come out to an autocross and treat it like a drifting test-n-tune. But someone who is out to have fun, and doesn't try e-braking around every turn, and is willing to learn and do the best they can with the car and setup they have? No problem! :cool:
Karen
| Mykl | 10-29-2006 01:34 PM |
My regions are pretty laid back. One of them is so laid back most people don't even bother putting numbers on their cars. It's more like a bunch of car people invading a large piece of concrete and having fun. The other one is a little more formal, but still pretty easy going.
| Kostamojen | 10-29-2006 03:23 PM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34;15790467]+1
I know I personally don't like drifters who come out to an autocross and treat it like a drifting test-n-tune. But someone who is out to have fun, and doesn't try e-braking around every turn, and is willing to learn and do the best they can with the car and setup they have? No problem! :cool:
Karen[/QUOTE]
Last time I went out, our drifter group was only drifting during funruns. They were quite serious (and fast) during the competitive runs, which was nice to see.
I know I personally don't like drifters who come out to an autocross and treat it like a drifting test-n-tune. But someone who is out to have fun, and doesn't try e-braking around every turn, and is willing to learn and do the best they can with the car and setup they have? No problem! :cool:
Karen[/QUOTE]
Last time I went out, our drifter group was only drifting during funruns. They were quite serious (and fast) during the competitive runs, which was nice to see.
| DrBiggly | 10-29-2006 09:30 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred;15776948]You need to stop spazzing out about everything and relax. :lol:
[/QUOTE]
Have to say ditto that. OP tends to overthink and overanalyze everything. :)
[QUOTE=jcroy66;15788954]In our region, we figure out who runs when AFTER registration closes, to ensure balanced run groups.[/QUOTE]
Same here.
-Biggly
[/QUOTE]
Have to say ditto that. OP tends to overthink and overanalyze everything. :)
[QUOTE=jcroy66;15788954]In our region, we figure out who runs when AFTER registration closes, to ensure balanced run groups.[/QUOTE]
Same here.
-Biggly
| chimchimm5 | 10-30-2006 02:22 AM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly;15794827]Have to say ditto that. OP tends to overthink and overanalyze everything. :)[/QUOTE]
Yes I do. I'll admit that. But anyways, makes for interesting discussions sometimes. :)
Yes I do. I'll admit that. But anyways, makes for interesting discussions sometimes. :)
| Scooby921 | 10-30-2006 12:16 PM |
[QUOTE=siopao2000;15779355]I run in SM with a pretty much stock WRX wagon. The only thing that put me in SM is my AccessPort. Everyone in SM is cool so I didn't bother flashing a stock map to go to DS.
I started autocrossing to learn how to control my car. Now it's just to improve on certain skills. Hopefully I can be competative sometime next season.
SM stands for "slightly modified" right? :p
I also think I'm faster on RE92's. :lol:[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=waktasz;15782138]You should run in ESP then :)[/QUOTE]
Actually, the AP is legal in Street Touring as well. Just flash the STX map and go have fun. For local events I don't think anyone will care. At national events, your STX map better be your base map.
As for not being competitive...who cares. You are there to have fun. So is everyone else. No one says you have to be competitive to have fun. Those who are too competitive and look down on others for not sharing the same view are the people you don't want at the event.
I started autocrossing to learn how to control my car. Now it's just to improve on certain skills. Hopefully I can be competative sometime next season.
SM stands for "slightly modified" right? :p
I also think I'm faster on RE92's. :lol:[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=waktasz;15782138]You should run in ESP then :)[/QUOTE]
Actually, the AP is legal in Street Touring as well. Just flash the STX map and go have fun. For local events I don't think anyone will care. At national events, your STX map better be your base map.
As for not being competitive...who cares. You are there to have fun. So is everyone else. No one says you have to be competitive to have fun. Those who are too competitive and look down on others for not sharing the same view are the people you don't want at the event.
| sachilles | 10-30-2006 01:42 PM |
We are pretty laid back around here as well.
Our run groups aren't based on class. They are decided on the day of the event to insure a good balance. So whatever class you run in isn't a big deal.
This ensures double driver cars and anyone else with some sort of scheduling conflict a chance.
That being said, it doesn't take a whole lot to ruin an event attitude wise. It can come from a veteran or someone new to our club. Its all about attitude. One rotten apple can make things miserable.
Bottom line, we are just a bunch of folks that like to run our cars around a bunch of cones in a parking lot. If you take yourself too seriously, then you have problems.
As far as I'm concerned, I love to see beginners at an event.....even if that means I'll have less runs as a result. Nothing beats seeing a new guy/gal go out an beat on their car for the first time.
I don't like seeing timewasters. If you are suppose to be working, get to work. Every minute wasted trying to track you down to work, means one less run someone will get. Same with all the other random little things that can slow down an event. The people that run the event are volunteers. Many hands make light work etc. It amazes me about the slacking I see from some folks (young and old). It upsets me if I lose runs do to a lack of volunteering to run the event, or that a lunch break(if there is one) isn't held to the original schedule.
Its all about having fun, so have fun. Take it seriously to a point. Compete to the best of your ability, but know you are ultimately competing against the clock.
Our run groups aren't based on class. They are decided on the day of the event to insure a good balance. So whatever class you run in isn't a big deal.
This ensures double driver cars and anyone else with some sort of scheduling conflict a chance.
That being said, it doesn't take a whole lot to ruin an event attitude wise. It can come from a veteran or someone new to our club. Its all about attitude. One rotten apple can make things miserable.
Bottom line, we are just a bunch of folks that like to run our cars around a bunch of cones in a parking lot. If you take yourself too seriously, then you have problems.
As far as I'm concerned, I love to see beginners at an event.....even if that means I'll have less runs as a result. Nothing beats seeing a new guy/gal go out an beat on their car for the first time.
I don't like seeing timewasters. If you are suppose to be working, get to work. Every minute wasted trying to track you down to work, means one less run someone will get. Same with all the other random little things that can slow down an event. The people that run the event are volunteers. Many hands make light work etc. It amazes me about the slacking I see from some folks (young and old). It upsets me if I lose runs do to a lack of volunteering to run the event, or that a lunch break(if there is one) isn't held to the original schedule.
Its all about having fun, so have fun. Take it seriously to a point. Compete to the best of your ability, but know you are ultimately competing against the clock.
| h0m3r | 10-31-2006 12:47 PM |
I haven't autocrossed in a few years (baby and selling my S2000 might have had something to do with that!) but in my region (FLR) non-competitiveness is not so much frowned upon as it is ignored. If you're not a threat to the top contenders in a particular class the "serious" autocrossers don't really care what you do, so long as you're safe and follow the rules of course. If you do show up and are competive you will get noticed pretty quick. In real tight classes (like AS), they hate it when competitive drivers show up only once in a while. Usually there is less than 1 second between the top 5-6 places in AS. The 4-5 top regulars in AS were always within a few points of each other at the end of the year. Sometimes the season championship coming down to the last event, if not the last RUN in the last event. In other words, a VERY competitve class. So if someone randomly shows up and puts one of the regulars into 5th or 6th for even one event it gets REALLY intersesting towards the end of the season. Best I ever managed to do was nab a 2nd. S2000s ruled AS around here, with a particular C4 mucking things up for us! ;)
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