| RS_Racer | 07-17-2006 10:09 AM |
Is the WRX (non STi) in E Street Prepared?
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Is the WRX in E Street Prepared? I never seem to see any in the National results. Is that where its classed? And could it compete against the pony cars?
| crystalhelix | 07-17-2006 10:28 AM |
Yes - many threads on this, lots of diff work, power work, fender massaging, would be needed. IMHO it would be a lot to drop into to be nationally compeitive but at local events you may be able to lay the smack down...I drove an ESP STi and unless you are highly prepped you will be at a loss at most national events...just my 0.02
| 05GrayWRX | 07-17-2006 05:00 PM |
I'm ESP with Whiteline FSB & RSB, Prodrive springs, Kartboy shortshifter, and an AP Stage 1. The AP Stage 1 helped to bump me to ESP. I could flash back to STX or stock map and run those classes. Not competitive at the local or regional level with these mods. I've been spanked by a '77 Z28, a '99 Mustang, and a '89 Taurus SHO. Pick another class if you're running the WRX.
It would take some serious mods and R compounds to catch the guys in front of me (cars come to the event on a trailer). Its my first year so I'm not really concerned about it. At this point the WRX is still a daily driver and I'm not willing to make the changes, maybe next year.
It would take some serious mods and R compounds to catch the guys in front of me (cars come to the event on a trailer). Its my first year so I'm not really concerned about it. At this point the WRX is still a daily driver and I'm not willing to make the changes, maybe next year.
| thrdeye | 07-17-2006 05:29 PM |
If any of you have ever seen "Stompy" - that's the amount of $$$ and work that it takes to win in *SP.
| CamaroFS34 | 07-17-2006 05:58 PM |
[QUOTE=thrdeye]If any of you have ever seen "Stompy" - that's the amount of $$$ and work that it takes to win in *SP.[/QUOTE]
....to win in *SP at the National level. And even Joel's car isn't [i]fully[/i] prepped, and having also driven Lee Piccione's BSP car (he won the BSP ProSolo Class Championship last year and was second to Rita at the National Championships), let me just say that he and Tommy will have to pedal the STi perfectly in order to get the win. The BMW handles superbly, while the STi is all about horsepower and torque. I think it's a good matchup, as both cars have their strengths in different areas, but which one has the edge will end up being somewhat course dependent.
Karen
....to win in *SP at the National level. And even Joel's car isn't [i]fully[/i] prepped, and having also driven Lee Piccione's BSP car (he won the BSP ProSolo Class Championship last year and was second to Rita at the National Championships), let me just say that he and Tommy will have to pedal the STi perfectly in order to get the win. The BMW handles superbly, while the STi is all about horsepower and torque. I think it's a good matchup, as both cars have their strengths in different areas, but which one has the edge will end up being somewhat course dependent.
Karen
| 05GrayWRX | 07-17-2006 07:17 PM |
^ Karen saw me on course this weekend and will probably say the car just needs new driver to be competitive... Great job in FS at Danville. :)
-Eddie
-Eddie
| CamaroFS34 | 07-17-2006 09:14 PM |
[QUOTE=05GrayWRX]^ Karen saw me on course this weekend and will probably say the car just needs new driver to be competitive... Great job in FS at Danville. :) [/QUOTE]
Thanks for the praise. :) You also have to remember that you were up against Dale Blankenship, who's been autocrossing for longer than I've had a drivers license. Experience certainly can overcome a lot of car weaknesses! You never looked bad on course (at least not on Sunday, when I was announcing for your group), so maybe you just weren't pushing hard enough.
Are you Blue Ridge Region, or....? I'm not sure who, if anyone, is running ESP in Blue Ridge any more.
Thanks for the praise. :) You also have to remember that you were up against Dale Blankenship, who's been autocrossing for longer than I've had a drivers license. Experience certainly can overcome a lot of car weaknesses! You never looked bad on course (at least not on Sunday, when I was announcing for your group), so maybe you just weren't pushing hard enough.
Are you Blue Ridge Region, or....? I'm not sure who, if anyone, is running ESP in Blue Ridge any more.
| ChrisDP | 07-17-2006 09:31 PM |
Matt Ingraham was running ESP last year in very, very underprepared trim but he's been playing with 2-wheeled things more often these days.
| CamaroFS34 | 07-17-2006 10:23 PM |
[QUOTE=ChrisDP]Matt Ingraham was running ESP last year in very, very underprepared trim but he's been playing with 2-wheeled things more often these days.[/QUOTE]
He'd also be in BSP this year, since he was in an STi. ;)
He'd also be in BSP this year, since he was in an STi. ;)
| makofoto | 07-18-2006 12:46 AM |
Another Suby ESP car. Pete has even won a local event already, (luckily Henry Bokin didn't show up that weekend!), even though he's been doing this for less then a year. He's been using used, too short, 235/40/17 RA1's so far ... but his new wider Kuhmos are on their way.
His Forester handles very well ... and it's massaged STI power is ferocious.
[IMG]http://images18.fotki.com/v331/photos/4/43793/3765832/PeteDeb-vi.jpg[/IMG]
His Forester handles very well ... and it's massaged STI power is ferocious.
[IMG]http://images18.fotki.com/v331/photos/4/43793/3765832/PeteDeb-vi.jpg[/IMG]
| AUTOwrXER | 07-18-2006 11:31 AM |
IMO a 2006 WRX TR could be a winner in ESP, but just be prepared for the time and money that goes into a SP build.
| KC | 07-18-2006 11:34 AM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]IMO a 2006 WRX TR could be a winner in ESP, but just be prepared for the time and money that goes into a SP build.[/QUOTE]
An '06 2.5L WRX engine/tranny in an '02/'03 body would be the best starting point IMHO. ;)
--kC
An '06 2.5L WRX engine/tranny in an '02/'03 body would be the best starting point IMHO. ;)
--kC
| ratt_finkel | 07-18-2006 12:02 PM |
I would think even an a normal 02-05 wrx would be a great match for the pony cars.
| crystalhelix | 07-18-2006 12:50 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]An '06 2.5L WRX engine/tranny in an '02/'03 body would be the best starting point IMHO. ;)
--kC[/QUOTE]
someone give KC $35k to go and do eeet
--kC[/QUOTE]
someone give KC $35k to go and do eeet
| jcroy66 | 07-18-2006 12:56 PM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix][b]someone[/b] give KC $35k to go and do eeet[/QUOTE]Oo, oo, I nominate crystalhelix!! :D
| PhilC | 07-18-2006 12:59 PM |
Someone should give us or Jason or McCance $15K to turn our already STX prepped bugeyes into an ESP contender. Hey it's cheaper than starting from scratch. :lol: I've even already got a spare rear diff and transmission (that will need a few new gears) that we can put those shiny new diffs we'll need into.
| angryfist | 07-18-2006 01:08 PM |
[QUOTE=PhilC]Someone should give us or Jason or McCance $15K to turn our already STX prepped bugeyes into an ESP contender. Hey it's cheaper than starting from scratch. :lol: I've even already got a spare rear diff and transmission (that will need a few new gears) that we can put those shiny new diffs we'll need into.[/QUOTE]
someone donate me a full 06 engine swap and i'll take care of the rest :devil:
someone donate me a full 06 engine swap and i'll take care of the rest :devil:
| Butt Dyno | 07-18-2006 01:14 PM |
[QUOTE=PhilC]Someone should give us or Jason or McCance $15K to turn our already STX prepped bugeyes into an ESP contender. Hey it's cheaper than starting from scratch. :lol: I've even already got a spare rear diff and transmission (that will need a few new gears) that we can put those shiny new diffs we'll need into.[/QUOTE]Or me! I have most of the STX stuff taken care of, plus all the downforce that will be necessary with all that extra horsepower. Not to mention all the bling ;)
| crystalhelix | 07-18-2006 01:16 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]Oo, oo, I nominate crystalhelix!! :D[/QUOTE]
Ok, I bite, KC my bank account combination is 1-2-3-4 ;)
Ok, I bite, KC my bank account combination is 1-2-3-4 ;)
| AUTOwrXER | 07-18-2006 04:34 PM |
[QUOTE=angryfist]someone donate me a full 06 engine swap and i'll take care of the rest :devil:[/QUOTE]
IMO you want the brakes and the stronger tranny as well, hence the reason I say to start with an 06. I doubt there is much weight savings starting with an 02 after you swap over everything you'd want...
IMO you want the brakes and the stronger tranny as well, hence the reason I say to start with an 06. I doubt there is much weight savings starting with an 02 after you swap over everything you'd want...
| AUTOwrXER | 07-18-2006 04:35 PM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]Not to mention all the bling ;)[/QUOTE]
No bling in SP!
No bling in SP!
| Mhyrr | 07-18-2006 06:10 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]IMO you want the brakes and the stronger tranny as well, hence the reason I say to start with an 06. I doubt there is much weight savings starting with an 02 after you swap over everything you'd want...[/QUOTE]
And you could just backdate anyway if there were anything.
I'd like to give it a try too.. maybe in a few years :)
And you could just backdate anyway if there were anything.
I'd like to give it a try too.. maybe in a few years :)
| angryfist | 07-18-2006 06:29 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]IMO you want the brakes and the stronger tranny as well, hence the reason I say to start with an 06. I doubt there is much weight savings starting with an 02 after you swap over everything you'd want...[/QUOTE]
well i already have my 03 so i rather do the swap. i would also take the brakes. i didnt know there was a change in the tranny though :confused: if i had to trade in my 03 for an 06 just to do esp i would just buy something else...
well i already have my 03 so i rather do the swap. i would also take the brakes. i didnt know there was a change in the tranny though :confused: if i had to trade in my 03 for an 06 just to do esp i would just buy something else...
| alltracin | 07-18-2006 06:48 PM |
Tranny did change, and since you can't mix/match tranny and engine you'd have to go with an '06 one anyway. Why start with a bugeye? They aren't any lighter when you get as far as SP anyway...
| wrxfactor | 07-18-2006 07:01 PM |
[QUOTE=alltracin]Tranny did change, and since you can't mix/match tranny and engine you'd have to go with an '06 one anyway. Why start with a bugeye? They aren't any lighter when you get as far as SP anyway...[/QUOTE]
Um, any EJ tranny should bolt up to any EJ motor...
Um, any EJ tranny should bolt up to any EJ motor...
| CamaroFS34 | 07-18-2006 07:54 PM |
[QUOTE=alltracin]Tranny did change, and since you can't mix/match tranny and engine you'd have to go with an '06 one anyway. Why start with a bugeye? They aren't any lighter when you get as far as SP anyway...[/QUOTE]
Why couldn't you mix/match tranny and engine? As long as there is no machining involved, it's good to go (according to the rules).
Why couldn't you mix/match tranny and engine? As long as there is no machining involved, it's good to go (according to the rules).
| 05GrayWRX | 07-18-2006 08:44 PM |
Karen,
Only three other drivers running ESP in BRR autoX; two '89 Taurus SHO (two drivers sharing one), with suspension mods and Hoosiers, trailered in with experianced drivers.
As for the '05 2.0 and the '06 2.5, there is a decent increase in torque in the 06 that I would love to have coming out of the corners. (Real WRX are 2.0 :p )
With the same prep, yes I think the WRX would be very competitive with any other car in ESP. It just comes back to how much do you want to spend.
Only three other drivers running ESP in BRR autoX; two '89 Taurus SHO (two drivers sharing one), with suspension mods and Hoosiers, trailered in with experianced drivers.
As for the '05 2.0 and the '06 2.5, there is a decent increase in torque in the 06 that I would love to have coming out of the corners. (Real WRX are 2.0 :p )
With the same prep, yes I think the WRX would be very competitive with any other car in ESP. It just comes back to how much do you want to spend.
| AUTOwrXER | 07-18-2006 09:27 PM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34]Why couldn't you mix/match tranny and engine? As long as there is no machining involved, it's good to go (according to the rules).[/QUOTE]
You could. Maybe the poster was confused about the allowance, as both engines and trannys need to be up/backdated as a unit, but the allowance is individual to each of those components.
You could. Maybe the poster was confused about the allowance, as both engines and trannys need to be up/backdated as a unit, but the allowance is individual to each of those components.
| PhilC | 07-19-2006 08:59 AM |
02/03 curb weight is listed as 3085, the 06 at 3192. That's over 100 pounds difference and I doubt that all of that is removable weight due to things like improved pedestrian safety bumpers and such.
I think the biggest reason we're all saying go with a bugeye is because that's what we've already got. :lol: That and if I were to win the lottery and start this build I'd rather swap an engine than do some of those bushings over again with a new car. :)
I think the biggest reason we're all saying go with a bugeye is because that's what we've already got. :lol: That and if I were to win the lottery and start this build I'd rather swap an engine than do some of those bushings over again with a new car. :)
| RS_Racer | 07-19-2006 10:09 AM |
[QUOTE=PhilC]02/03 curb weight is listed as 3085, the 06 at 3192. That's over 100 pounds difference and I doubt that all of that is removable weight due to things like improved pedestrian safety bumpers and such.
I think the biggest reason we're all saying go with a bugeye is because that's what we've already got. :lol: That and if I were to win the lottery and start this build I'd rather swap an engine than do some of those bushings over again with a new car. :)[/QUOTE]
Would it be really that much more expensive than a fully prepped STX car? I mean, with the STX mods aren't you most of the way there already? WOuldn't be much more would it?
I think the biggest reason we're all saying go with a bugeye is because that's what we've already got. :lol: That and if I were to win the lottery and start this build I'd rather swap an engine than do some of those bushings over again with a new car. :)[/QUOTE]
Would it be really that much more expensive than a fully prepped STX car? I mean, with the STX mods aren't you most of the way there already? WOuldn't be much more would it?
| Butt Dyno | 07-19-2006 10:15 AM |
[QUOTE=RS_Racer]Would it be really that much more expensive than a fully prepped STX car? I mean, with the STX mods aren't you most of the way there already? WOuldn't be much more would it?[/QUOTE]
-Really wide wheels
-Hoosiers/V710's
-3 new diffs
-intercooler (+custom intake manifold?)
-clutch/flywheel/install
-new tune
-engine swap if you're going that route
-for some of us, finding stock brake calipers
I'm sure I'm missing something, but I gotta think it'd be in the ~7-8K range without a swap, maybe more depending on how much of the labor you can do yourself.
You can always just chuck wheels/tires on an STX car if you want to experiment.
john
-Really wide wheels
-Hoosiers/V710's
-3 new diffs
-intercooler (+custom intake manifold?)
-clutch/flywheel/install
-new tune
-engine swap if you're going that route
-for some of us, finding stock brake calipers
I'm sure I'm missing something, but I gotta think it'd be in the ~7-8K range without a swap, maybe more depending on how much of the labor you can do yourself.
You can always just chuck wheels/tires on an STX car if you want to experiment.
john
| angryfist | 07-19-2006 10:35 AM |
I see a $12k-$14k investment for the first year in ESP from my STX car and that is without an engine swap.
| RS_Racer | 07-19-2006 10:38 AM |
[QUOTE=angryfist]I see a $12k-$14k investment for the first year in ESP from my STX car and that is without an engine swap.[/QUOTE]
Whoa! Can you break that down for us? I've seen some pretty high dollar STX Subaru's, and cannot imagine what they'd have to do to go to ESP that would cost $12k-$14k more than they've already spent.
Whoa! Can you break that down for us? I've seen some pretty high dollar STX Subaru's, and cannot imagine what they'd have to do to go to ESP that would cost $12k-$14k more than they've already spent.
| PhilC | 07-19-2006 10:57 AM |
Cusco tarmac center diff: $1400
Quaife front diff: $1495 (Save $500 if you use a Cusco instead)
Cusco rear diff (save some money compared to the Quaife): $1000
CCW Wheels: $2000
Intercooler: $350? if top mount, I'd want to do more research on which way to go.
Flywheel: $270 plus maching and balancing to take off more weight, call it $350.
Clutch: custom built for weight, call it $800 give or take.
Intake manifold: $800+
Catless exhaust: net zero after selling my catted downpipe.
Water injection: $300
New custom tune: $300 plus the cost of getting Doug to my car or my car to Doug.
Brakes: net zero after selling my StopTechs
That's up above $8K before the body work to fit the big wheels and tires and before buying the tires. Figure one set of tires for each Pro in a dual driver car, 3 pros before the finale, $1000 per set. You're up to above $11K before the finale and nationals if you don't use any other tires during the year. All that assumes that I do all the work myself. I'm probably going to want to pay someone to put the diffs into the tranny and the rear differential so that all the tolerances are right.
Also note that this assumes that my current suspension could be used intact which it almost certainly couldn't. Add in revalve\rebuild on our Konis and say 6 pairs of springs to do testing with for another $1200 or so. New sway bars if the calculations and car behavior warrant them.
Quaife front diff: $1495 (Save $500 if you use a Cusco instead)
Cusco rear diff (save some money compared to the Quaife): $1000
CCW Wheels: $2000
Intercooler: $350? if top mount, I'd want to do more research on which way to go.
Flywheel: $270 plus maching and balancing to take off more weight, call it $350.
Clutch: custom built for weight, call it $800 give or take.
Intake manifold: $800+
Catless exhaust: net zero after selling my catted downpipe.
Water injection: $300
New custom tune: $300 plus the cost of getting Doug to my car or my car to Doug.
Brakes: net zero after selling my StopTechs
That's up above $8K before the body work to fit the big wheels and tires and before buying the tires. Figure one set of tires for each Pro in a dual driver car, 3 pros before the finale, $1000 per set. You're up to above $11K before the finale and nationals if you don't use any other tires during the year. All that assumes that I do all the work myself. I'm probably going to want to pay someone to put the diffs into the tranny and the rear differential so that all the tolerances are right.
Also note that this assumes that my current suspension could be used intact which it almost certainly couldn't. Add in revalve\rebuild on our Konis and say 6 pairs of springs to do testing with for another $1200 or so. New sway bars if the calculations and car behavior warrant them.
| angryfist | 07-19-2006 11:05 AM |
[QUOTE=RS_Racer]Whoa! Can you break that down for us? I've seen some pretty high dollar STX Subaru's, and cannot imagine what they'd have to do to go to ESP that would cost $12k-$14k more than they've already spent.[/QUOTE]
Sure... but these are rough estimates...
Custom Complete Wheels - $2500
Front Diff - $1000
Rear Diff - $1000
Center Diff - $1200
Intercooler - $900
Intake Manifold - $1100
Clutch/Flywheel - $1000-2000 (depends on which one I would decide on)
Water Injection - $1000
Tune - $700
4pot/2pot Brakes - $0 (after selling stoptechs)
More springs to add to my collection - $300
-----------------------------------------------------
=$11k-$12k before tires
4 sets of tires for the season - $4000
-----------------------------------------------------
=$15k-$16k for the first season
Sure... but these are rough estimates...
Custom Complete Wheels - $2500
Front Diff - $1000
Rear Diff - $1000
Center Diff - $1200
Intercooler - $900
Intake Manifold - $1100
Clutch/Flywheel - $1000-2000 (depends on which one I would decide on)
Water Injection - $1000
Tune - $700
4pot/2pot Brakes - $0 (after selling stoptechs)
More springs to add to my collection - $300
-----------------------------------------------------
=$11k-$12k before tires
4 sets of tires for the season - $4000
-----------------------------------------------------
=$15k-$16k for the first season
| crystalhelix | 07-19-2006 11:10 AM |
My BSP car is definately a hole in my bank account all the money falls into..
I still have stock diffs, lol, and under-par suspension..still need bushings, steering wheel, get the seats in etc....and I have spent a butt load. You will likely want 2 sets of wheels as well so plan that in. I have 4k in tires and wheels alone this year.
all for a little competition and fun...I am going to try to find a competitive stock car next time, lol
I still have stock diffs, lol, and under-par suspension..still need bushings, steering wheel, get the seats in etc....and I have spent a butt load. You will likely want 2 sets of wheels as well so plan that in. I have 4k in tires and wheels alone this year.
all for a little competition and fun...I am going to try to find a competitive stock car next time, lol
| Butt Dyno | 07-19-2006 11:13 AM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix]My BSP car is definately a hole in my bank account all the money falls into..
I still have stock diffs, lol, and under-par suspension..still need bushings, steering wheel, get the seats in etc....and I have spent a butt load. You will likely want 2 sets of wheels as well so plan that in. I have 4k in tires and wheels alone this year.
all for a little competition and fun...I am going to try to find a competitive stock car next time, lol[/QUOTE]
Can't you demod yourself into STU?
I still have stock diffs, lol, and under-par suspension..still need bushings, steering wheel, get the seats in etc....and I have spent a butt load. You will likely want 2 sets of wheels as well so plan that in. I have 4k in tires and wheels alone this year.
all for a little competition and fun...I am going to try to find a competitive stock car next time, lol[/QUOTE]
Can't you demod yourself into STU?
| angryfist | 07-19-2006 11:15 AM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix]all for a little competition and fun...I am going to try to find a competitive stock car next time, lol[/QUOTE]
stock suspension is no fun :D
stock suspension is no fun :D
| crystalhelix | 07-19-2006 11:49 AM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]Can't you demod yourself into STU?[/QUOTE]
yeah - but I like the BSP PoWarZ
yeah - but I like the BSP PoWarZ
| CamaroFS34 | 07-19-2006 12:44 PM |
And people wonder why we jokingly say that Stompy is the half-million dollar machine... :lol:
| AUTOwrXER | 07-19-2006 02:34 PM |
675k, but I'll sell for a $teal at 500k
| RS_Racer | 07-19-2006 05:34 PM |
Maybe I'll stick with stock class LOL
Wheels: $800
Tires: $660
Front swaybar: $150
Shox: $1000
Wheels: $800
Tires: $660
Front swaybar: $150
Shox: $1000
| angryfist | 07-19-2006 07:54 PM |
[QUOTE=RS_Racer]Maybe I'll stick with stock class LOL
Wheels: $800
Tires: $660
Front swaybar: $150
Shox: $1000[/QUOTE]
I dont know... my stock class budget would still be pretty expensive... ;)
Wheels - $4000 (2 sets)
Tires - $4000 (4 sets minimum, +2 more if i did extensive A6 vs. V710 testing)
Swaybar - $150
Shocks - $2000
looks like thats still pretty pricey :eek:
Wheels: $800
Tires: $660
Front swaybar: $150
Shox: $1000[/QUOTE]
I dont know... my stock class budget would still be pretty expensive... ;)
Wheels - $4000 (2 sets)
Tires - $4000 (4 sets minimum, +2 more if i did extensive A6 vs. V710 testing)
Swaybar - $150
Shocks - $2000
looks like thats still pretty pricey :eek:
| alltracin | 07-19-2006 08:43 PM |
As far as engine/tranny. Yes, I was confused. I thought you had to update/backdate the whole powertrain together.
| mccanixx | 07-19-2006 09:12 PM |
[QUOTE=PhilC]Someone should give us or Jason or McCance $15K to turn our already STX prepped bugeyes into an ESP contender. Hey it's cheaper than starting from scratch. :lol: I've even already got a spare rear diff and transmission (that will need a few new gears) that we can put those shiny new diffs we'll need into.[/QUOTE]
Or we could each pitch in $5K, and fight over the keys. :lol:
Or we could each pitch in $5K, and fight over the keys. :lol:
| jcroy66 | 07-20-2006 07:32 AM |
Or one of the three of you could wear the Bud Dress and we could ALL drive (2 in ESP, 2 in ESPL). :D
| angryfist | 07-20-2006 08:30 AM |
Not It :lol:
| Rasmusson14 | 07-20-2006 10:52 AM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]Or one of the three of you could wear the Bud Dress and we could ALL drive (2 in ESP, 2 in ESPL). :D[/QUOTE]
Mccanixx would fit best in the dress :lol: ;)
......gets the camera :huh:
Mccanixx would fit best in the dress :lol: ;)
......gets the camera :huh:
| CamaroFS34 | 07-20-2006 12:25 PM |
Hey now! Don't go whoring out the Bud dress to just any ol' guy! :lol: Only [i]fast[/i] guys get to wear it.... well, fast guys and Tom Hoppe. ;)
| jcroy66 | 07-20-2006 12:31 PM |
D'oh! Looks like we're back to fighting over the keys. :lol:
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