| E-Wrex | 09-10-2006 08:43 PM |
Lack of downforce without my wing.
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I really had no idea how much downforce you could actually feel from the STi wing. I got the sti wing and splitters when I first got my car because I liked the look of the STi, just not the price tag. Now that I'm making decent power, I want my car to not be noticed as an STi, but as a WRX for the simple reason that it's still only about as fast as a stg 2 STi. I was told that the STi wing actually produces about 600lbs of downforce at 85mph, which might be hearsay, but with seemingly low drag. I just went to a CF Seibon trunk and have yet to pick a wing. It's amazing how much of a difference I can feel in the handling. Not to say that it's extremely abrubt, but I can certainly feel my rear end squirreling around a bit more, especially in higher speed corners where I used to just feel it firmly planted. Where my car used to have a slight bit of understeer, but was fairly close to neutral, now the rear end kicks out just slightly, and it feels awesome. It's just crazy how much bouncier it feels at hgiher speeds. Time to buy a CF s203 wing ;)
| sizzflair | 09-10-2006 08:46 PM |
600lbs? WTF where are you getting these numbers? 60lbs might sound about right.
Maybe you should think about suspension mods before adding a spoiler on to increase handling?
Maybe you should think about suspension mods before adding a spoiler on to increase handling?
| E-Wrex | 09-10-2006 09:01 PM |
I've already got springs and 18x8s wrapped in 235s and I'm steeping up to coil-overs soon enough so it handles well. I was just making an observation on the handling difference. and if you look at the slope and size of the bottom half of the STi spoiler it's not out of the question at all. Think if you stuck a flat object out the window at 85mph and feel how much force is being exerted when you angle it slightly. Now imagine trying to hold something the size of that blasted STi spoiler, it would feel a ****-ton heavier than 60lbs...
| E-Wrex | 09-10-2006 09:03 PM |
Oh, and notice I put ",which might be hearsay," I was told that by my cousin who owns an STi and thouroughly researched them before he bought one.
| Dforce | 09-10-2006 09:03 PM |
how about sway bars?
| Stoupazz | 09-10-2006 09:07 PM |
kinda off topic but i have to ask.. anyone know if theres anywhere/anyone who sells s204 wings? or can u not jus buy one? i guess since its the limited ed. they might not sell it buy itself?
been wonderin this for a while and after a while of searching i jus cant seem to find anywhere thats sellin one, so out of curiousity if anyone knows feel free to share the info :p
been wonderin this for a while and after a while of searching i jus cant seem to find anywhere thats sellin one, so out of curiousity if anyone knows feel free to share the info :p
| rkramer | 09-10-2006 09:21 PM |
i drove my wrx today with 500 pounds of weight in the trunk. (i needed to haul 10 50# bags of pea gravel...) trust me, you do NOT want 600 (or even 500) pounds of downforce! it handled like a pig, rode like it was a '70's cadillac, and in general was just something you should really avoid. 500 pounds was easily enough to put the noise up in the air and drastically reduce the rear suspension travel.
not to mention, 600 pounds would squish the trunk relatively fast... someone mentioned 60, that is appropriate, but it is probably more like almost no downforce.
not to mention, 600 pounds would squish the trunk relatively fast... someone mentioned 60, that is appropriate, but it is probably more like almost no downforce.
| E-Wrex | 09-10-2006 09:24 PM |
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996696[/url]
s203 wing, I think it's the same as the s204. I'm getting one of these eventually, because I like the look, and the small amount of downforce I'd be getting. No, I don't have sway bars yet, but do have front and rear strut bars. I originally started with items to make my car look better, but then I decided to upgrade almost the whole induction system with a perrin FMIC anda vf39 pushing 20lbs of boost and an upgraded fuel system(sti pinks and a walbro), and almost completely stand-alone EM, just need to install my boost selenoid and i'm there. It handles "well enough" until I get money for coil-overs, sways and links. I kept up to my cousins squeeling STi in the twisties, and my tires were planted and quiet, but without the downforce, I feel my rear end kicking out. I don't see where this went to suspension, I was just saying i noticed it.
s203 wing, I think it's the same as the s204. I'm getting one of these eventually, because I like the look, and the small amount of downforce I'd be getting. No, I don't have sway bars yet, but do have front and rear strut bars. I originally started with items to make my car look better, but then I decided to upgrade almost the whole induction system with a perrin FMIC anda vf39 pushing 20lbs of boost and an upgraded fuel system(sti pinks and a walbro), and almost completely stand-alone EM, just need to install my boost selenoid and i'm there. It handles "well enough" until I get money for coil-overs, sways and links. I kept up to my cousins squeeling STi in the twisties, and my tires were planted and quiet, but without the downforce, I feel my rear end kicking out. I don't see where this went to suspension, I was just saying i noticed it.
| E-Wrex | 09-10-2006 09:26 PM |
[QUOTE=rkramer;15196299]i drove my wrx today with 500 pounds of weight in the trunk. (i needed to haul 10 50# bags of pea gravel...) trust me, you do NOT want 600 (or even 500) pounds of downforce! it handled like a pig, rode like it was a '70's cadillac, and in general was just something you should really avoid. 500 pounds was easily enough to put the noise up in the air and drastically reduce the rear suspension travel.
not to mention, 600 pounds would squish the trunk relatively fast... someone mentioned 60, that is appropriate, but it is probably more like almost no downforce.[/QUOTE]
Downforce = downward pushing weight minus centirfugal force(not the same thing as having dead wight in the trunk) = better handling because your tires are smashed into the ground but not being pulled outwards. I suppose 600lbs is a bit of a big number, but with many spoilers you need to reinforce the trunk because it will indeed get crushed. They had to do it with turbo project miata in sport compact car i think it was, they had to reinforce it with honeycombed CF because the original metal trunk get destroyed by the enormous wing.
not to mention, 600 pounds would squish the trunk relatively fast... someone mentioned 60, that is appropriate, but it is probably more like almost no downforce.[/QUOTE]
Downforce = downward pushing weight minus centirfugal force(not the same thing as having dead wight in the trunk) = better handling because your tires are smashed into the ground but not being pulled outwards. I suppose 600lbs is a bit of a big number, but with many spoilers you need to reinforce the trunk because it will indeed get crushed. They had to do it with turbo project miata in sport compact car i think it was, they had to reinforce it with honeycombed CF because the original metal trunk get destroyed by the enormous wing.
| ANashTy | 09-10-2006 09:33 PM |
Im no expert, but I would have to disagree. If the STi wing was SO amazing, then wouldnt more Time Attack cars have STi wings or wings similar?? Im thinking its more like a mental thing rather than an actual feel.
But what kind of driving are you doing that is giving you a functional/accurate feel for decrease in downforce?
But what kind of driving are you doing that is giving you a functional/accurate feel for decrease in downforce?
| Stoupazz | 09-10-2006 09:55 PM |
[IMG]http://www.japanvehicles.com/newcars/subaru/WRXS203/S203/016-001.JPG[/IMG]
this is the s203
[IMG]http://news.hspn.com/content_images/s204-exterior-4.jpg[/IMG]
and thats the s204.. they look similar.. but the mounting brackets r different, the s203 wing looks a lil bit too ricey to me, i prefer the s204 wing, assuming they r different of course :devil:
this is the s203
[IMG]http://news.hspn.com/content_images/s204-exterior-4.jpg[/IMG]
and thats the s204.. they look similar.. but the mounting brackets r different, the s203 wing looks a lil bit too ricey to me, i prefer the s204 wing, assuming they r different of course :devil:
| E-Wrex | 09-10-2006 10:03 PM |
I just felt the rear end coming out around more corners, at like 75 around long sweepers.
| ExpO | 09-10-2006 10:07 PM |
[QUOTE=rkramer;15196299]i drove my wrx today with 500 pounds of weight in the trunk. (i needed to haul 10 50# bags of pea gravel...) trust me, you do NOT want 600 (or even 500) pounds of downforce! it handled like a pig, rode like it was a '70's cadillac, and in general was just something you should really avoid. 500 pounds was easily enough to put the noise up in the air and drastically reduce the rear suspension travel.
not to mention, 600 pounds would squish the trunk relatively fast... someone mentioned 60, that is appropriate, but it is probably more like almost no downforce.[/QUOTE]
are you serial?
not to mention, 600 pounds would squish the trunk relatively fast... someone mentioned 60, that is appropriate, but it is probably more like almost no downforce.[/QUOTE]
are you serial?
| fullerton | 09-10-2006 10:22 PM |
i'd have to say:
stop ricing it out and get real mods that make real differences. strut tower bars do very little. they do look good, though.
this is what i'd do (and have done)
sways. endlinks. alk. ball joint extenders. tires. bushings alll over. cut your bumps stops. performance alignment. camber plates (or bolts if you're cheap, I was). h-brace.
a lot of people overlook the simple things beacuse they don't sound as cool.
stop ricing it out and get real mods that make real differences. strut tower bars do very little. they do look good, though.
this is what i'd do (and have done)
sways. endlinks. alk. ball joint extenders. tires. bushings alll over. cut your bumps stops. performance alignment. camber plates (or bolts if you're cheap, I was). h-brace.
a lot of people overlook the simple things beacuse they don't sound as cool.
| veightkiller | 09-10-2006 10:24 PM |
+1 on the suspension mods.
| nicmowrx | 09-10-2006 10:52 PM |
sti wing= overrated. i really dont think it provides too much downforce. i think it needs more of an angle to provide any real force. if you really want downforce buy a WRC wing.
| sti-liger | 09-10-2006 11:01 PM |
i read on iwsti that the wing provides a 100lbs of downforce at 100mph and up so in other words you will more than likely never feel the difference and would more than likely be getting a placebo effect:D and from experience the sway bars make a huge difference if you havent got them yet go for it!
| E-Wrex | 09-10-2006 11:04 PM |
[QUOTE=fullerton;15196967]i'd have to say:
stop ricing it out and get real mods that make real differences. strut tower bars do very little. they do look good, though.
this is what i'd do (and have done)
sways. endlinks. alk. ball joint extenders. tires. bushings alll over. cut your bumps stops. performance alignment. camber plates (or bolts if you're cheap, I was). h-brace.
a lot of people overlook the simple things beacuse they don't sound as cool.[/QUOTE]
Why do people say that strut tower bars do very little? I thought they tightened up my steering quite a bit. My car isn't really riced, I have 235 series rubber, stand alone EM (missing the boost selenoid, just needs to be installed), FMIC, VF39, sti pinks, TBE, Up-pipe.... my car is far from slow, keeps up with stage 2 sti's with ease. I'm getting coilovers that come with camber plates and the rest will come soon. My car still corners like a dream, so I can't complain. This thread wasn't asking how I should set-up my suspension, it was just that my car feels less planted without my wing... jesus.
stop ricing it out and get real mods that make real differences. strut tower bars do very little. they do look good, though.
this is what i'd do (and have done)
sways. endlinks. alk. ball joint extenders. tires. bushings alll over. cut your bumps stops. performance alignment. camber plates (or bolts if you're cheap, I was). h-brace.
a lot of people overlook the simple things beacuse they don't sound as cool.[/QUOTE]
Why do people say that strut tower bars do very little? I thought they tightened up my steering quite a bit. My car isn't really riced, I have 235 series rubber, stand alone EM (missing the boost selenoid, just needs to be installed), FMIC, VF39, sti pinks, TBE, Up-pipe.... my car is far from slow, keeps up with stage 2 sti's with ease. I'm getting coilovers that come with camber plates and the rest will come soon. My car still corners like a dream, so I can't complain. This thread wasn't asking how I should set-up my suspension, it was just that my car feels less planted without my wing... jesus.
| E-Wrex | 09-10-2006 11:13 PM |
[QUOTE=sti-liger;15197389]i read on iwsti that the wing provides a 100lbs of downforce at 100mph and up so in other words you will more than likely never feel the difference and would more than likely be getting a placebo effect:D and from experience the sway bars make a huge difference if you havent got them yet go for it![/QUOTE]
I'll probably be getting sways in the next couple months. It makes sense that I would be getting a placebo, but I drive my car a whole lot, and I know it very well, and I can tell when it begins to oversteer a bit. I guess 100lbs wouldn't be much, but I saw on a thread on wrxhackers or something that the wrx wing creates 300lbs at 100mph... but again, it might be purely stipulation.
I'll probably be getting sways in the next couple months. It makes sense that I would be getting a placebo, but I drive my car a whole lot, and I know it very well, and I can tell when it begins to oversteer a bit. I guess 100lbs wouldn't be much, but I saw on a thread on wrxhackers or something that the wrx wing creates 300lbs at 100mph... but again, it might be purely stipulation.
| EarlQHan | 09-10-2006 11:20 PM |
I've read 100 lbs @ 75 MPH or so.
| ANashTy | 09-10-2006 11:23 PM |
And were just saying that its a placebo effect that youre feeling. If you didnt want feedback on what you had said, then you shouldnt have posted it. When you post something, like what you posted, most people would assume you ARE complaining about it. If YOU feel a difference in your PERSONAL opinion, then easy solution is put the STi wing back on, or mount it to the CF trunk.
| shikataganai | 09-10-2006 11:28 PM |
[QUOTE=E-Wrex;15197494]I'll probably be getting sways in the next couple months. It makes sense that I would be getting a placebo, but I drive my car a whole lot, and I know it very well, and I can tell when it begins to oversteer a bit. I guess 100lbs wouldn't be much, but I saw on a thread on wrxhackers or something that the wrx wing creates 300lbs at 100mph... but again, it might be purely [B]stipulation[/B].[/QUOTE]
your grasp of english parallels your grasp of physics
your grasp of english parallels your grasp of physics
| fullerton | 09-10-2006 11:34 PM |
what can i say- i ditched my sti's wing. i feel little, if any difference. i thoght i felt it on the first drive, but then i realized i was wanting to feel that it was gone. the bars i felt a bit, but others mods provide a better bang for the buck.
it sounds like you have all the power upgrades you need. now on to suspension and braking.
the biggest differences i feel are from the items i mentioned. besides, how often are you at 90mph+ through s's compared to turning 90� at 40mph? i know which one i think is more fun. (and which is safer and more legal) and- if you think your car turns well now, do a couple things on my list and you will be in heavan!
if you want a wing, go for it. be ready to get a big, obnoxious one, because if you want to feel a difference, its got to be BIG. enjoy carrying all the extra weight and dragging it through the air for the few times you actually can make use of it.
[quote=E-Wrex;15197416]Why do people say that strut tower bars do very little? I thought they tightened up my steering quite a bit. My car isn't really riced, I have 235 series rubber, stand alone EM (missing the boost selenoid, just needs to be installed), FMIC, VF39, sti pinks, TBE, Up-pipe.... my car is far from slow, keeps up with stage 2 sti's with ease. I'm getting coilovers that come with camber plates and the rest will come soon. My car still corners like a dream, so I can't complain. This thread wasn't asking how I should set-up my suspension, it was just that my car feels less planted without my wing... jesus.[/quote]
it sounds like you have all the power upgrades you need. now on to suspension and braking.
the biggest differences i feel are from the items i mentioned. besides, how often are you at 90mph+ through s's compared to turning 90� at 40mph? i know which one i think is more fun. (and which is safer and more legal) and- if you think your car turns well now, do a couple things on my list and you will be in heavan!
if you want a wing, go for it. be ready to get a big, obnoxious one, because if you want to feel a difference, its got to be BIG. enjoy carrying all the extra weight and dragging it through the air for the few times you actually can make use of it.
[quote=E-Wrex;15197416]Why do people say that strut tower bars do very little? I thought they tightened up my steering quite a bit. My car isn't really riced, I have 235 series rubber, stand alone EM (missing the boost selenoid, just needs to be installed), FMIC, VF39, sti pinks, TBE, Up-pipe.... my car is far from slow, keeps up with stage 2 sti's with ease. I'm getting coilovers that come with camber plates and the rest will come soon. My car still corners like a dream, so I can't complain. This thread wasn't asking how I should set-up my suspension, it was just that my car feels less planted without my wing... jesus.[/quote]
| MeanEditor | 09-11-2006 12:42 AM |
downforce
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�
Here is the thing about downforce. You need speed to make it happen. And not like 50mph or 60mph, more like 100mph. Most aerodynamic aids do not come into play until about 100mph or so, so if you are cornering around 40-50mph, your wing does not really do anything at all. In fact, as you decelerate for a corner, you get less and less downforce as the air moving over the wing loses velocity, or rather, as your car loses velocity.
Most wings on production cars are not for downforce. They exist purely to reduce drag by eliminating vorticies that come off the rear of the car and therefore make the car a little more slippery for better top-end and fuel economy etc. I am not sure why Subaru put a wing on the STi but I doubt it was for downforce, but then again... maybe it was, however, I doubt the absence of a wing would change your handling characteristics through the twisties. Maybe at the track through high-speed corners at 100mph+, but not on the street.
Most wings on production cars are not for downforce. They exist purely to reduce drag by eliminating vorticies that come off the rear of the car and therefore make the car a little more slippery for better top-end and fuel economy etc. I am not sure why Subaru put a wing on the STi but I doubt it was for downforce, but then again... maybe it was, however, I doubt the absence of a wing would change your handling characteristics through the twisties. Maybe at the track through high-speed corners at 100mph+, but not on the street.
| robinlox | 09-11-2006 02:47 AM |
Thank For You1!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| NewSTI | 09-11-2006 05:45 AM |
i'm not too sure about the downforce part, but personally with spare tire off or on makes different in turns...
the only time i feel different is going 100 mph in wide turns, and i had CF trunk , and i could tell it wasn't as stable as with STI wings on ...btw, it was all stock suspesion
the only time i feel different is going 100 mph in wide turns, and i had CF trunk , and i could tell it wasn't as stable as with STI wings on ...btw, it was all stock suspesion
| DashboardCon | 09-11-2006 09:06 AM |
I believe the number I read on here was only about 50 lbs at 100mph and 100 lbs at 150mph. It really isnt that great until you get into the triple digits. Its not like that happens very often anyway.
| StealthfishWRX | 09-11-2006 09:13 PM |
I love my wing! JDM STi comes with the WRX wing too no ricer wing for Japan STi...lol!
| Uncle Scotty | 09-11-2006 10:09 PM |
The reduced weight of removing the steel deck lid and the wing is likely a good bit of it.
| pioneer_sti | 09-12-2006 12:24 AM |
[QUOTE=StealthfishWRX;15209463]I love my wing! JDM STi comes with the WRX wing too no ricer wing for Japan STi...lol![/QUOTE]
Not true. The JDM STi bugeye model came with the WRX wing, but the JDM STi bugeye Prodrive edition came with the STi wing. I believe that was the first car to use the revised WRC wing design. Similar design, but the wing was moved foward. All other JDM STi's since the bugeye, except for a few models, come with the STi wing. Gotta love all these aerodynamic experts and their hard data about the STi wing. There is info available on the net showing 1/4 mile time differences with and without the wing, and a few articles here and there on it, but then again why ruin good stories with the facts? Right? :D
Anyone who thinks the STi wing is 'rice' wouldn't have a clue what that stuff is in a bag with the label "Uncle Ben's". :lol:
Not true. The JDM STi bugeye model came with the WRX wing, but the JDM STi bugeye Prodrive edition came with the STi wing. I believe that was the first car to use the revised WRC wing design. Similar design, but the wing was moved foward. All other JDM STi's since the bugeye, except for a few models, come with the STi wing. Gotta love all these aerodynamic experts and their hard data about the STi wing. There is info available on the net showing 1/4 mile time differences with and without the wing, and a few articles here and there on it, but then again why ruin good stories with the facts? Right? :D
Anyone who thinks the STi wing is 'rice' wouldn't have a clue what that stuff is in a bag with the label "Uncle Ben's". :lol:
| ramrod | 09-12-2006 03:18 AM |
[QUOTE=Stoupazz;15196165]kinda off topic but i have to ask.. anyone know if theres anywhere/anyone who sells s204 wings? or can u not jus buy one? i guess since its the limited ed. they might not sell it buy itself?
been wonderin this for a while and after a while of searching i jus cant seem to find anywhere thats sellin one, so out of curiousity if anyone knows feel free to share the info :p[/QUOTE]
Renickmotorsports.com carries the s204 wing for $1,035.00. Man......just for a freakin wing:huh:
been wonderin this for a while and after a while of searching i jus cant seem to find anywhere thats sellin one, so out of curiousity if anyone knows feel free to share the info :p[/QUOTE]
Renickmotorsports.com carries the s204 wing for $1,035.00. Man......just for a freakin wing:huh:
| hyp36rmax | 09-12-2006 02:38 PM |
[QUOTE=pioneer_sti;15211912]Not true. The JDM STi bugeye model came with the WRX wing, but the JDM STi bugeye Prodrive edition came with the STi wing. I believe that was the first car to use the revised WRC wing design. Similar design, but the wing was moved foward. All other JDM STi's since the bugeye, except for a few models, come with the STi wing. Gotta love all these aerodynamic experts and their hard data about the STi wing. There is info available on the net showing 1/4 mile time differences with and without the wing, and a few articles here and there on it, but then again why ruin good stories with the facts? Right? :D
Anyone who thinks the STi wing is 'rice' wouldn't have a clue what that stuff is in a bag with the label "Uncle Ben's". :lol:[/QUOTE]
this is the best thing i heard by far, cheers! a lot of the components on our cars have a sense of function. the subaru engineers i'm sure didn't know crap when attaching the large spoiler on the car :rolleyes:
personally my placebo effect senses taht my car is much more stable with the spoiler rather then without, of course it felt much more so with a proper front spoiler such as the cusco spoiler or even v-limited attached.
this is one debate that will go on for years and our own kids will be arguing if it even works... haha if you like it keep it on, if not toss it and use it as a bookshelf. i agree with this post however only way we'll all know is proper wind tunnel testing, and too be honest i dont care for it right now, i let the subaru engineers do it for me, so if it works then it works, if not then whatever...
the wrc spirit lives with my car and style!
Anyone who thinks the STi wing is 'rice' wouldn't have a clue what that stuff is in a bag with the label "Uncle Ben's". :lol:[/QUOTE]
this is the best thing i heard by far, cheers! a lot of the components on our cars have a sense of function. the subaru engineers i'm sure didn't know crap when attaching the large spoiler on the car :rolleyes:
personally my placebo effect senses taht my car is much more stable with the spoiler rather then without, of course it felt much more so with a proper front spoiler such as the cusco spoiler or even v-limited attached.
this is one debate that will go on for years and our own kids will be arguing if it even works... haha if you like it keep it on, if not toss it and use it as a bookshelf. i agree with this post however only way we'll all know is proper wind tunnel testing, and too be honest i dont care for it right now, i let the subaru engineers do it for me, so if it works then it works, if not then whatever...
the wrc spirit lives with my car and style!
| MF-DIF | 09-12-2006 02:43 PM |
[QUOTE=E-Wrex;15196776]I just felt the rear end coming out around more corners, at like 75 around long sweepers.[/QUOTE]
You corner at 75mph on public roads? :huh:
You corner at 75mph on public roads? :huh:
| betnic | 09-12-2006 06:37 PM |
^^^ Yes he does but only in School zones ^^^:banana:
| vtecTHIS | 09-12-2006 06:53 PM |
i never really felt a diff when i took the wing off. i did feel a diff when i put the jdm optional front lip,wrx sides with rear strakes,jdm rear spats,and 06 diffuser on though
| WillisW555 | 09-12-2006 07:09 PM |
One of the guys at the track told me that he felt a good bit of difference when he swapped his STi trunklid to a wingless. He took off the upper part of the wing as a compromise.
He's a pretty good driver and I trust his opinion. I've never tried my car without it, but I'm pretty sure the Subaru engineers didn't just attach a GIGANTIC wing for looks only.
He's a pretty good driver and I trust his opinion. I've never tried my car without it, but I'm pretty sure the Subaru engineers didn't just attach a GIGANTIC wing for looks only.
| Jack | 09-12-2006 07:10 PM |
Steve Fitzgerald's BMW Club racecar. Note the angle, size and very rearward location of the wing. This wing does actual good. Anything less is not doing much.
[img]http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/eimg/2/6/10305233-S.jpg[/img]
jack
[img]http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/eimg/2/6/10305233-S.jpg[/img]
jack
| ANashTy | 09-12-2006 11:51 PM |
[QUOTE=WillisW555;15222855]One of the guys at the track told me that he felt a good bit of difference when he swapped his STi trunklid to a wingless. He took off the upper part of the wing as a compromise.
He's a pretty good driver and I trust his opinion. I've never tried my car without it, but I'm pretty sure the Subaru engineers didn't just attach a GIGANTIC wing for looks only.[/QUOTE]
Yes, AT THE TRACK. The real difference with this wing wont do anything until ya hit triple digits. I mean yes, itll change a LITTLE, but nothing amazing til over 100.
He's a pretty good driver and I trust his opinion. I've never tried my car without it, but I'm pretty sure the Subaru engineers didn't just attach a GIGANTIC wing for looks only.[/QUOTE]
Yes, AT THE TRACK. The real difference with this wing wont do anything until ya hit triple digits. I mean yes, itll change a LITTLE, but nothing amazing til over 100.
| vtecTHIS | 09-13-2006 12:25 AM |
even over 100 my car feels very stable.. i'm sure a wing has to make some kind of difference though
| ST0ICH | 09-16-2006 10:45 AM |
[quote=rkramer;15196299]it handled like a pig, rode like it was a '70's cadillac.[/quote]
:lol:
Nice...
:lol:
Nice...
| LOLSTi | 09-16-2006 10:55 AM |
I love this thread.
| disque71 | 09-16-2006 04:13 PM |
s204 wing > s203 wing
| wrx-boy | 09-17-2006 11:26 AM |
[QUOTE=Uncle Scotty;15210182]The reduced weight of removing the steel deck lid and the wing is likely a good bit of it.[/QUOTE]
I know you are the Guru, but aren't the deck lids aluminum??:confused:
I know you are the Guru, but aren't the deck lids aluminum??:confused:
| kenlee | 09-17-2006 12:36 PM |
I have the zerosports rear spoiler. It's quite different than that of the stock bench that comes with the sti. It has a raised center lip to allow abit more air to flow through the front, as well as a gradient lip on the top tier of the wing. If you would like pics I can send them out, but I don't have a pic hosting service.
The only thing I regret is that it is very expensive fiberglass and even with lining between the spoiler and trunk it still has some rattles.:mad:
Ken
The only thing I regret is that it is very expensive fiberglass and even with lining between the spoiler and trunk it still has some rattles.:mad:
Ken
| fullerton | 09-17-2006 05:53 PM |
Aluminum is only in the JDM Spec C trunk.
All USDM trunks are steel.
[quote=wrx-boy;15274518]I know you are the Guru, but aren't the deck lids aluminum??:confused:[/quote]
All USDM trunks are steel.
[quote=wrx-boy;15274518]I know you are the Guru, but aren't the deck lids aluminum??:confused:[/quote]
| WRXSIG | 09-17-2006 06:01 PM |
wow....people are bragging whos more lame in this thread.
OP is in the dark/.
OP is in the dark/.
| hanzo918 | 09-17-2006 07:03 PM |
1. 80% of the ppl here don't believe in downforce unless it's "TRIPLE DIGITS"
2. 20% of the ppl here believe in downforce and aerodynamics even when it's 60-80mph.
U're preaching to the wrong crowd.
A 400 TON Boeing 747 can be lifted off the ground at 180mph with those wings looking like they're not angled much.
Enuff said.
2. 20% of the ppl here believe in downforce and aerodynamics even when it's 60-80mph.
U're preaching to the wrong crowd.
A 400 TON Boeing 747 can be lifted off the ground at 180mph with those wings looking like they're not angled much.
Enuff said.
| craigito burrito | 09-17-2006 08:00 PM |
[QUOTE=Jack ffr1846;15222868]Steve Fitzgerald's BMW Club racecar. Note the angle, size and very rearward location of the wing. This wing does actual good. Anything less is not doing much.
[img]http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/eimg/2/6/10305233-S.jpg[/img]
jack[/QUOTE]
Saw him in a club race during lunch of my first track day this year. HOLY CRAP that guy/car is fast! :devil:
[img]http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/eimg/2/6/10305233-S.jpg[/img]
jack[/QUOTE]
Saw him in a club race during lunch of my first track day this year. HOLY CRAP that guy/car is fast! :devil:
| B96v6 | 09-17-2006 10:27 PM |
[QUOTE=hanzo918;15277565]
A 400 TON Boeing 747 can be lifted off the ground at 180mph with those wings looking like they're not angled much.
[/QUOTE]
At the taking/landing velocity of air liners, pilots have to use the flaps to increase the surface area of the wings to maintain lift. Increasing the static angle of the wings, as you may be suggesting, without using the flaps is not efficient because it would increase drag at cruising speeds. This would limit the range of the aircraft. Overall size and static angle of the wing has less to do with downforce than how efficient the wing controls the air. The most efficient aerodynamic aids (ie. wings, splitters, diffusers) will increase the velocity of the air WITHOUT detaching it from car's surface. If the air detaches, all aero effects are minimized.
As for when aero benefits actually occur, our formula cars have shown better grip even at low speeds (45-60 mph). It all comes back to surface area. Throw a huge wing on the car, and you will feel the benefits at lower speeds. But, you will pay with increased drag at higher speeds. This doesn't mean you will loose grip, but you will gain less than you could if the active aero surface were smaller. It's all about compromise. The best idea would be to evaluate when you need the increased grip - if you're on a track with alot of slow turns and short straights, throw a ton of wing in the car. On a track with long straights, minimize wing angle. For fast turns, a mid-point between the two is best.
So, throwing a wing on the back of your will not significantly increase downforce unless you control the movement of the air all around the car. Take this info with a grain of salt and make up your own mind, but hopefully this will shed some light on the subject.
Brandon
A 400 TON Boeing 747 can be lifted off the ground at 180mph with those wings looking like they're not angled much.
[/QUOTE]
At the taking/landing velocity of air liners, pilots have to use the flaps to increase the surface area of the wings to maintain lift. Increasing the static angle of the wings, as you may be suggesting, without using the flaps is not efficient because it would increase drag at cruising speeds. This would limit the range of the aircraft. Overall size and static angle of the wing has less to do with downforce than how efficient the wing controls the air. The most efficient aerodynamic aids (ie. wings, splitters, diffusers) will increase the velocity of the air WITHOUT detaching it from car's surface. If the air detaches, all aero effects are minimized.
As for when aero benefits actually occur, our formula cars have shown better grip even at low speeds (45-60 mph). It all comes back to surface area. Throw a huge wing on the car, and you will feel the benefits at lower speeds. But, you will pay with increased drag at higher speeds. This doesn't mean you will loose grip, but you will gain less than you could if the active aero surface were smaller. It's all about compromise. The best idea would be to evaluate when you need the increased grip - if you're on a track with alot of slow turns and short straights, throw a ton of wing in the car. On a track with long straights, minimize wing angle. For fast turns, a mid-point between the two is best.
So, throwing a wing on the back of your will not significantly increase downforce unless you control the movement of the air all around the car. Take this info with a grain of salt and make up your own mind, but hopefully this will shed some light on the subject.
Brandon
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