| djb_rh | 07-01-2006 07:33 PM |
Lightweight stock-class autocross wheels for '05 STi?
�
�
Anyone got any recommendations for wheels for an AS '05 STi? Stock is 17x8 with a 5x114 bolt pattern and 53mm offset. To run 275 A6's I need 3mm of spacer, so anything that gets me back to that offset is fine. Stock rims weigh 19-19.5 pounds, so I want something at least a pound, preferably two or more less than that. So far I can find *nothing* that will actually clear the caliper in that size and offset (at least nothing lighter...Tire Rack has umpteen wheels that fit, but the lightest is 20.8 pounds).
Anyone know of anything lighter that for sure will fit?
--Donnie
Anyone know of anything lighter that for sure will fit?
--Donnie
| Butt Dyno | 07-02-2006 12:14 AM |
Enkei ES Tarmac? 17x8 +45 are reported to clear the Brembos. I can't find proof that the Enkei RPF1's come in the right bolt pattern/offset.
[url]http://www.rallispec.com/prod_wheel.htm[/url]
One caveat - I'm not sure how that'll work with the offset rules, because I'm not that good at math and quite lazy.
There's gotta be some Volks that'll fit if you have the $$ :)
john
[url]http://www.rallispec.com/prod_wheel.htm[/url]
One caveat - I'm not sure how that'll work with the offset rules, because I'm not that good at math and quite lazy.
There's gotta be some Volks that'll fit if you have the $$ :)
john
| waktasz | 07-02-2006 12:19 AM |
I think +47 is the lowest you can go. It's 1/4" difference right?
| alltracin | 07-02-2006 12:22 AM |
A little over 6mm is the play you have.
| djb_rh | 07-02-2006 07:58 AM |
Yeah, you can go +/- 1/4", which is a little over 6mm. Which appears to be the problem. Not to mention I really need to be at 50mm pretty much on the dot to clear the 275's anyway. I don't mind paying for Volks. I don't like *waiting* for Volks, but if that's what I have to do, that's what I have to do (seems you don't get no Volks in less than three months).
--Donnie
--Donnie
| The_Wolf | 07-02-2006 09:21 AM |
I just got a cheap set of rota torques for the same reason (06 sti). 48 offset...I didn't want to have to run spacers. The only thing is that they are not all that much lighter than stock.
check this thread too...
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1027217[/url]
check this thread too...
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1027217[/url]
| djb_rh | 07-02-2006 06:24 PM |
Interesting. What do those Rotas weigh? Also, is there a good site to find out what's available in Volks in terms of sizing?
--Donnie
--Donnie
| waktasz | 07-02-2006 06:30 PM |
[url]http://www.subydude.com/parts/wheelweight.php[/url]
The Revs are slightly lighter and will also clear Brembos.
The Revs are slightly lighter and will also clear Brembos.
| jamesohoh7 | 07-02-2006 09:30 PM |
[QUOTE=The_Wolf]I just got a cheap set of rota torques for the same reason (06 sti). 48 offset...I didn't want to have to run spacers. The only thing is that they are not all that much lighter than stock.
check this thread too...
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1027217[/url][/QUOTE]
stock STi rims are lighter than all of those Rotas, IIRC... the typically quoted figure is in the mid 16lb range (16.5'ish).
check this thread too...
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1027217[/url][/QUOTE]
stock STi rims are lighter than all of those Rotas, IIRC... the typically quoted figure is in the mid 16lb range (16.5'ish).
| djb_rh | 07-02-2006 10:06 PM |
[QUOTE=jamesohoh7]stock STi rims are lighter than all of those Rotas, IIRC... the typically quoted figure is in the mid 16lb range (16.5'ish).[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but I've weighed the stock 17x8. The only reason I said 19-19.5 pounds in my first post is because my shipping scales are accurate to a half pound and one said 19.0 and the other said 19.5. I'm pretty sure they're not off by more than a half pound since we ship a *lot* of stuff and UPS scales seem to jive.
Dunno where you're getting your numbers from, but they ain't for the stock 17x8 from an '05 or '06. If the stock wheels weighed that much I wouldn't be looking for aftermarkets (especially since stockers go for $700 a set).
--Donnie
Sorry, but I've weighed the stock 17x8. The only reason I said 19-19.5 pounds in my first post is because my shipping scales are accurate to a half pound and one said 19.0 and the other said 19.5. I'm pretty sure they're not off by more than a half pound since we ship a *lot* of stuff and UPS scales seem to jive.
Dunno where you're getting your numbers from, but they ain't for the stock 17x8 from an '05 or '06. If the stock wheels weighed that much I wouldn't be looking for aftermarkets (especially since stockers go for $700 a set).
--Donnie
| Scooby South | 07-03-2006 07:29 AM |
5 Zigen....FNO1C's FTW...:)
Stockers aren't all that light...
17x9 (17.0 lbs)...
Bill
Stockers aren't all that light...
17x9 (17.0 lbs)...
Bill
| rankink | 07-03-2006 07:59 AM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]5 Zigen....FNO1C's FTW...:)
Stockers aren't all that light...
17x9 (17.0 lbs)...
Bill[/QUOTE]
But he wants stock sized wheels (17x8) that have the correct offset for stock class rules.
Stockers aren't all that light...
17x9 (17.0 lbs)...
Bill[/QUOTE]
But he wants stock sized wheels (17x8) that have the correct offset for stock class rules.
| Scooby South | 07-03-2006 08:03 AM |
[QUOTE=rankink]But he wants stock sized wheels (17x8) that have the correct offset for stock class rules.[/QUOTE]
yeah...I know....5 Zigen still have a 17x8 48 offset....which is lighter than my 17x9...that was my point...sorry..or RPF1 Enkei...17x8 @ 15lbs ea...
Bill
yeah...I know....5 Zigen still have a 17x8 48 offset....which is lighter than my 17x9...that was my point...sorry..or RPF1 Enkei...17x8 @ 15lbs ea...
Bill
| jamesohoh7 | 07-03-2006 10:28 AM |
[QUOTE=djb_rh] ...
Dunno where you're getting your numbers from, but they ain't for the stock 17x8 from an '05 or '06. If the stock wheels weighed that much I wouldn't be looking for aftermarkets (especially since stockers go for $700 a set).
--Donnie[/QUOTE]
O.k., after further review... the numbers I remembered were in reference to the 7.5" width STi rims. There are numerous posts putting their weight in the 16.5lb range. So, :meh: .. apparently, BBS put these on 'Weightgain 4000' for the 8" width editions :/ I find it odd that they gained so much weight by .5" width since so many other rims only go up by about 1/2lb to 1lb for such a gain. Almost 3lbs difference just seems ... porky.
Dunno where you're getting your numbers from, but they ain't for the stock 17x8 from an '05 or '06. If the stock wheels weighed that much I wouldn't be looking for aftermarkets (especially since stockers go for $700 a set).
--Donnie[/QUOTE]
O.k., after further review... the numbers I remembered were in reference to the 7.5" width STi rims. There are numerous posts putting their weight in the 16.5lb range. So, :meh: .. apparently, BBS put these on 'Weightgain 4000' for the 8" width editions :/ I find it odd that they gained so much weight by .5" width since so many other rims only go up by about 1/2lb to 1lb for such a gain. Almost 3lbs difference just seems ... porky.
| PhilC | 07-03-2006 11:30 AM |
Or, the 16.5 pounds for the 17x7.5 is extremely optimistic and just re-quoted over and over by internet drones which would be my guess.
The RPF1s are only in a 35mm offset which means they are out of the picture. In 5x114.3 I think the 5Zigens are a 43 offset so also off the list.
The Enkei RP03 in a 48mm offset is quoted by Enkei at 17.9 pounds so not much savings on weight. Other than that I think you're either heavier than stock or custom.
The RPF1s are only in a 35mm offset which means they are out of the picture. In 5x114.3 I think the 5Zigens are a 43 offset so also off the list.
The Enkei RP03 in a 48mm offset is quoted by Enkei at 17.9 pounds so not much savings on weight. Other than that I think you're either heavier than stock or custom.
| djb_rh | 07-03-2006 03:17 PM |
[QUOTE=PhilC]Or, the 16.5 pounds for the 17x7.5 is extremely optimistic and just re-quoted over and over by internet drones which would be my guess. [/quote]
That is overly optimistic. I've got an '04 STi with the 17x7.5's and did weigh them at one point. I'm pretty sure they're 18 pounds, maybe 18.5 pounds. I should have some bare soon and can weigh them again.
[quote]The RPF1s are only in a 35mm offset which means they are out of the picture. In 5x114.3 I think the 5Zigens are a 43 offset so also off the list.
The Enkei RP03 in a 48mm offset is quoted by Enkei at 17.9 pounds so not much savings on weight. Other than that I think you're either heavier than stock or custom.[/QUOTE]
So, who sells decent custom wheels? I've heard horror stories about Kodiak service recently.
Also, on VividRacing.com I found one set of Volks with specs that look possible. They are the CE28NF. They're 5x114.3 17x8 with 47mm available. They are expensive and they don't list a weight, so does anyone know a good way to find out how much they weigh? I'm still also concerned the spokes may be pretty deep and thus not clear the calipers. Not sure if there's any good way to know that. *sigh*
--Donnie
That is overly optimistic. I've got an '04 STi with the 17x7.5's and did weigh them at one point. I'm pretty sure they're 18 pounds, maybe 18.5 pounds. I should have some bare soon and can weigh them again.
[quote]The RPF1s are only in a 35mm offset which means they are out of the picture. In 5x114.3 I think the 5Zigens are a 43 offset so also off the list.
The Enkei RP03 in a 48mm offset is quoted by Enkei at 17.9 pounds so not much savings on weight. Other than that I think you're either heavier than stock or custom.[/QUOTE]
So, who sells decent custom wheels? I've heard horror stories about Kodiak service recently.
Also, on VividRacing.com I found one set of Volks with specs that look possible. They are the CE28NF. They're 5x114.3 17x8 with 47mm available. They are expensive and they don't list a weight, so does anyone know a good way to find out how much they weigh? I'm still also concerned the spokes may be pretty deep and thus not clear the calipers. Not sure if there's any good way to know that. *sigh*
--Donnie
| djb_rh | 07-03-2006 03:24 PM |
Hmm, following up to my own post is annoying, but I found this:
[url]http://www.rayswheels.co.jp/cgi-bin/cgi2/english/sizeGuide.cgi?modelName=CE28NF[/url]
That seems to imply via the legend that the 47mm offset *will* fit an Impreza with Brembos. Still doesn't list a weight, though. *sigh*
--Donnie
[url]http://www.rayswheels.co.jp/cgi-bin/cgi2/english/sizeGuide.cgi?modelName=CE28NF[/url]
That seems to imply via the legend that the 47mm offset *will* fit an Impreza with Brembos. Still doesn't list a weight, though. *sigh*
--Donnie
| PhilC | 07-03-2006 04:14 PM |
If the CE28NFs are similar in spoke thickness to the CE28Ns then I think you could reasonably expect a sub 15 pound 17x8. The CE28Ns are supposed to be 14.8 in 17x9 for instance. Tough part will be finding a vendor who actually has them.
If you've got the cash look to CCW for custom wheels. Not cheap but they'll build you whatever specs you want.
If you've got the cash look to CCW for custom wheels. Not cheap but they'll build you whatever specs you want.
| silentbob343 | 07-03-2006 04:26 PM |
is the 6mm number just for AutoX class rukes or wheel bearing thing?
| makofoto | 07-03-2006 04:36 PM |
Wheel weights:
[url]http://www.wheelweights.net/[/url]
[url]http://www.wheelweights.net/[/url]
| The_Wolf | 07-03-2006 04:56 PM |
[QUOTE=silentbob343]is the 6mm number just for AutoX class rukes or wheel bearing thing?[/QUOTE]
scca stock class rules state that you have to have the same size wheel and the offset can be up to +/- 1/4"
1/4" = 6.35mm
scca stock class rules state that you have to have the same size wheel and the offset can be up to +/- 1/4"
1/4" = 6.35mm
| silentbob343 | 07-03-2006 08:04 PM |
[QUOTE=The_Wolf]scca stock class rules state that you have to have the same size wheel and the offset can be up to +/- 1/4"
1/4" = 6.35mm[/QUOTE]
ahh thank you
On the topic of Rotas:
most all of the Rotas for the Subaru in 17" come in at the 18+lb range
1/4" = 6.35mm[/QUOTE]
ahh thank you
On the topic of Rotas:
most all of the Rotas for the Subaru in 17" come in at the 18+lb range
| makofoto | 07-03-2006 08:11 PM |
Remember that if you are AX'ing a lot ... wheels become expendables. Unless you've really got the money, it's a drag replacing extra light weight expensive wheels every couple of years when they start cracking. Rota's are very popular with National level Suby racers. And I haven't seen any cracking.
Tire Rack tech article on wheel wear:
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=110[/url]
Tire Rack tech article on wheel wear:
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=110[/url]
| djb_rh | 07-03-2006 10:43 PM |
I've been autocrossing nationally now for four years. I've heard of *very* few wheel fatigue failures. Heck, for Volks to work on the front of a CS Toyota Spyder you have to actually cut out part of the back of each spoke to clear the caliper! Wheels that we did that to over three years ago are still going strong.
I'm sure it's an issue at the track where you're putting hours and hours on them, but for autocrossing I just don't see it as that big of a worry. Sure, 3000+ pound AWD 300HP monsters put a lot more load on the wheel in EVERY direction than a Toyota Spyder, but it still doesn't seem like people have a lot of issues to the point of wheels becoming "expendable."
As for the availability on Volks, I've never heard of anyone having hardly anything available in the race-specific set. You call a distributor and you order them and you wait three+ months. That's just the way it is. :(
--Donnie
I'm sure it's an issue at the track where you're putting hours and hours on them, but for autocrossing I just don't see it as that big of a worry. Sure, 3000+ pound AWD 300HP monsters put a lot more load on the wheel in EVERY direction than a Toyota Spyder, but it still doesn't seem like people have a lot of issues to the point of wheels becoming "expendable."
As for the availability on Volks, I've never heard of anyone having hardly anything available in the race-specific set. You call a distributor and you order them and you wait three+ months. That's just the way it is. :(
--Donnie
| trhoppe | 07-03-2006 10:53 PM |
Why not trim/mill those Kosei K1s 45 offset? The 35 offset fit with PLENTY of brake clearance, and I was told the 45 offset was that same wheel with 10mm taken off the hub surface. Get 3 more mm taken off, trim the spokes a touch and bam a under 15lb 28 offset 8" wheel.
Discount Tire will let you buy wheels and try them on to see if they clear brakes before you pay for them. If they clear at 45, they will for sure clear at 48 with a little trim.
-Tom
Discount Tire will let you buy wheels and try them on to see if they clear brakes before you pay for them. If they clear at 45, they will for sure clear at 48 with a little trim.
-Tom
| djb_rh | 07-03-2006 11:04 PM |
Any idea how wide I can go and have the tire still fit without hitting anything? I haven't personally even seen the car with the stockers and 3mm spacer, but I suppose I could put them on and see if I can tell much.
I ask because by my math I only *need* 46.65mm of offset total. So perhaps milling 1.75mm off the face would do it without hitting the caliper (and thus needing to mill the spokes). I just don't like that spoke milling thing. Heck, I don't know of a machine shop I'd trust to do the faces for that matter. Know of one around here?
--Donnie
I ask because by my math I only *need* 46.65mm of offset total. So perhaps milling 1.75mm off the face would do it without hitting the caliper (and thus needing to mill the spokes). I just don't like that spoke milling thing. Heck, I don't know of a machine shop I'd trust to do the faces for that matter. Know of one around here?
--Donnie
| trhoppe | 07-03-2006 11:06 PM |
I've used the carquest on germantown road in raleigh for lots of flywheel/brake rotor resurfacing and also on a couple of MR2 motor rebuilds. Not sure on anything else. I'm sure some of the raceshops around the area would know.
-Tom
-Tom
| trhoppe | 07-03-2006 11:07 PM |
I know for a fact that 48 offset fits w/o rubbing, but I cannot tell you if you can go wider then that. I think it might have to be a "test and measure" thing. Pull the springs, slap on the stocker with the 275s, and then use a jack to raise and washers to space out to see how much you can go out and still get travel.
-Tom
-Tom
| PhilC | 07-03-2006 11:08 PM |
If you hunt hard enough you can maybe find a distributer who has a set in country or on the way. Pure luck really, not careing about color will help get them quicker. Or worst case on a fast boat. Our original FN01RCs which were not available in the US at the time we got them (believe me I was pissed when the wheels I got to look good, not race, became available from Discount Tire 4 months later and I saw a Cavalier in our suburb with them) came over on a slow boat and took about 3.5 months to get here. Slow boat sucks, 3+ months to clear customs and get to you at best. Never actually experienced it but fast boat is still a 2 month trip but that's lots better. Air costs more than the wheels do but can have your wheels in a week.
We put a full season of autocross and two summers of daily driving (in Cleveland and all you people on the west coast should stop complaining about roads until you experience Cleveland or worse yet Michigan roads..your crappiest road is our smoothest highway) on our 5Zigens and still use them as our rain wheels with no signs of fatigue at all. We've now got two sets of Enkeis and I don't expect to replace them any time soon with just autocross, even pro solo, abuse on them. Do I keep an eye on them, yes, but do I worry that I'll break a wheel with a properly maintained car, no.
If you decide to go Volks I wish you luck on tracking the set you want down. I'd only suggest that Vivid is not the source you want to go through. I know what a pain it was to import a set of wheels that were, at the time, not sold in America and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Unfortunately I don't know of a single good vendor for importing wheels, every single one I've ever heard of is a ****hole scumbucket.
We put a full season of autocross and two summers of daily driving (in Cleveland and all you people on the west coast should stop complaining about roads until you experience Cleveland or worse yet Michigan roads..your crappiest road is our smoothest highway) on our 5Zigens and still use them as our rain wheels with no signs of fatigue at all. We've now got two sets of Enkeis and I don't expect to replace them any time soon with just autocross, even pro solo, abuse on them. Do I keep an eye on them, yes, but do I worry that I'll break a wheel with a properly maintained car, no.
If you decide to go Volks I wish you luck on tracking the set you want down. I'd only suggest that Vivid is not the source you want to go through. I know what a pain it was to import a set of wheels that were, at the time, not sold in America and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Unfortunately I don't know of a single good vendor for importing wheels, every single one I've ever heard of is a ****hole scumbucket.
| djb_rh | 07-03-2006 11:09 PM |
Oh, and I sent an email off to CCW requesting a quote. We'll see what they say (gave them specs and asked for price, timeframe, and weight).
--Donnie
--Donnie
| djb_rh | 07-06-2006 03:30 PM |
Got the reply from CCW:
"unfortunatley at this time we really dont have anything that will work in a stock class configuation, best place to look would be ssr of rays
john"
Unreal. Looks like the Enkei RP03 will fit at 17.9 pounds and they aren't insanely expensive. But that's only 1.3 pounds better per corner, so I'm still not sure they're worth the extra over what stock rims cost. *sigh* I've been having Marty at Big Bear Tire up in Wisconsin look for me and he's been *really* great to deal with, but we're just not finding much. He didn't like the idea of milling on the RP-F1 at all, though. :(
*grumble*
--Donnie
"unfortunatley at this time we really dont have anything that will work in a stock class configuation, best place to look would be ssr of rays
john"
Unreal. Looks like the Enkei RP03 will fit at 17.9 pounds and they aren't insanely expensive. But that's only 1.3 pounds better per corner, so I'm still not sure they're worth the extra over what stock rims cost. *sigh* I've been having Marty at Big Bear Tire up in Wisconsin look for me and he's been *really* great to deal with, but we're just not finding much. He didn't like the idea of milling on the RP-F1 at all, though. :(
*grumble*
--Donnie
| djb_rh | 07-06-2006 04:27 PM |
The RP03 is $1100 to my door. 17x8, 48mm offset, 5x114.3, 17.9 pounds. That makes them about $350 more than a set of stock rims that weigh 19.2 pounds. I'm going to think on it but may pull the trigger tomorrow since I need a third set anyway and they *are* lighter. Just not by as much as I'd really like.
--Donnie
--Donnie
| makofoto | 07-07-2006 12:15 AM |
If weight is really important to you ... make sure you look at tire weight.
| silentbob343 | 07-07-2006 02:03 AM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]If weight is really important to you ... make sure you look at tire weight.[/QUOTE]
true.
true.
| makofoto | 07-07-2006 02:12 AM |
When I first started AX'ing I was using 7.5 X 17 SSR's with 225 Toyo T1S.
Wheels, 13 to 14 lbs according to TireRack (not sure why they can't pinpoint the weight?) and the T1S were only 20lbs each ... considering my lack of experience, had some very decent times with that set-up. With cheaper wheels and bigger (and better) tires, you can easily be 10 lbs heavier at each corner. That is noticeable.
Wheels, 13 to 14 lbs according to TireRack (not sure why they can't pinpoint the weight?) and the T1S were only 20lbs each ... considering my lack of experience, had some very decent times with that set-up. With cheaper wheels and bigger (and better) tires, you can easily be 10 lbs heavier at each corner. That is noticeable.
| silver arrow | 07-07-2006 02:32 AM |
Loosing 2lbs of tire weight > 2lbs of wheel weight. Spend your cash on WL FSB, alignment and sticky tires. Then shocks and CB. Get a reasonably price set of street wheels and use the BBS for track.
| djb_rh | 07-07-2006 05:58 PM |
I had the biggest WL front bar on my car for a long time. I didn't think it did very much for the car. I then put the Strano bar on. Say what you want, but that thing transformed the car. I'm betting you could get by with the WL bar on the track, but for autocross in stock trim you're going to be far better off with the Strano bar. FWIW, my car also has alignment, 275 A6's, CB, and will soon have DA shocks. I ran the same setup except 245 stickies and Koni singles on my '04 and it rocked. But you couldn't get 275's on it in stock trim....
--Donnie
--Donnie
| silver arrow | 07-07-2006 06:21 PM |
I'm on 10k/8k springs so I don't notice the difference between Strano and WL. WL is the better bar for a street driven car.
| djb_rh | 07-07-2006 08:39 PM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]I'm on 10k/8k springs so I don't notice the difference between Strano and WL. WL is the better bar for a street driven car.[/QUOTE]
If you're going to stock class autocross, the Strano bar is the best bar you can put on your car. I prefer it on the street, too. But as always, YMMV. If you're doing a higher level of prep, then I'm sure there are better package solutions out there.
--Donnie
If you're going to stock class autocross, the Strano bar is the best bar you can put on your car. I prefer it on the street, too. But as always, YMMV. If you're doing a higher level of prep, then I'm sure there are better package solutions out there.
--Donnie
| Sideshowbob | 07-07-2006 09:18 PM |
[QUOTE=djb_rh]If you're going to stock class autocross, the Strano bar is the best bar you can put on your car. I prefer it on the street, too. But as always, YMMV. If you're doing a higher level of prep, then I'm sure there are better package solutions out there.
--Donnie[/QUOTE]
Which whiteline bar did you come from?
--Donnie[/QUOTE]
Which whiteline bar did you come from?
| djb_rh | 07-07-2006 09:29 PM |
27mm "race only" bar, which at the time was the biggest bar they had. Haven't checked lately to see if they ever did a bigger one. *shrug*
--Donnie
--Donnie
| silentbob343 | 07-07-2006 09:38 PM |
Isn't there a 29mm bar available now?
| Sideshowbob | 07-07-2006 09:52 PM |
yep.5
| djb_rh | 07-07-2006 10:03 PM |
Might be better, then. I still doubt it's "enough" for stock class autocross, though.
--Donnie
--Donnie
| silver arrow | 07-08-2006 02:02 AM |
[QUOTE=silentbob343]Isn't there a 29mm bar available now?[/QUOTE]
No, it's the 27mm bar that is "adjustable" to feel like 29mm. They refer to it as 27/29mm
No, it's the 27mm bar that is "adjustable" to feel like 29mm. They refer to it as 27/29mm
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét