| roofis | 08-14-2005 05:10 PM |
Need racing suit info please.
�
�
I'll be ready to buy one in the not to distant future but I don't really know much about them from one company to another. I'm looking to spend about $500-600 and have found 3 models from Sparco, OMP and Momo that I like but haven't tried anything on yet. As always, Sparco is expensive, OMP is less and Momo is even less than OMP. Finding info on anything other than Momo shift knobs and steering wheels has proven pretty difficult. So a few questions..
I'm looking for something that's 'all-season' if that's how it's phrased, as it will be my only fire suit. Is it a better idea to go with a 2 layer suit with the option of wearing Nomex underwear over a 3 layer? What makes a $1000 race suit differ from a $500 one? Is quilted padding one of those things that's not essential but a good thing to have?
What's the deal with Sparco? 99% of everyone I've talked to own them but I've seen a few OMP suits around too. Are Sparco products really that much better than Momo, Simpson, OMP, Puma, Recaro,etc? I'm also looking for a racing seat and am really attracted to Momo's stuff because it's so inexpensive compared to Sparco's. I dunno if it's literally cheaper, quality wise, but the prices are nice.
I've searched like crazy and came up with almost nothing. What do you guys prefer to use and why?
Thanks a lot.
I'm looking for something that's 'all-season' if that's how it's phrased, as it will be my only fire suit. Is it a better idea to go with a 2 layer suit with the option of wearing Nomex underwear over a 3 layer? What makes a $1000 race suit differ from a $500 one? Is quilted padding one of those things that's not essential but a good thing to have?
What's the deal with Sparco? 99% of everyone I've talked to own them but I've seen a few OMP suits around too. Are Sparco products really that much better than Momo, Simpson, OMP, Puma, Recaro,etc? I'm also looking for a racing seat and am really attracted to Momo's stuff because it's so inexpensive compared to Sparco's. I dunno if it's literally cheaper, quality wise, but the prices are nice.
I've searched like crazy and came up with almost nothing. What do you guys prefer to use and why?
Thanks a lot.
| trhoppe | 08-14-2005 05:20 PM |
Ahhh, suit shopping. I've been doing it as well :)
As long as the have a SFI 3.2/5 rating, you can use a 2 layer suit with no underwear, thats an appeal of the 2 layer Sparcos. Also I believe the GF545 has that rating as well.
I have been told that if you want light-bling, but very light, and not as high build quality as Sparco, get the G-Force F545 suit. For $399 its a great deal.
I myself have opted for the Sparco S-Stretch. The suit came out a while ago and apparently hasn't been selling at all, so its discontinued, and UPR.com is blowing them out for $580. Before that I was going with the Sparco Fashion 5, but this suit has teh strech Nomex material, is lighter, is box quilted, and is the same price with the "closeout" deal. They are calling it the Pro-Light because they said they didn't like the S-Strech name. Whatever.
-Tom
As long as the have a SFI 3.2/5 rating, you can use a 2 layer suit with no underwear, thats an appeal of the 2 layer Sparcos. Also I believe the GF545 has that rating as well.
I have been told that if you want light-bling, but very light, and not as high build quality as Sparco, get the G-Force F545 suit. For $399 its a great deal.
I myself have opted for the Sparco S-Stretch. The suit came out a while ago and apparently hasn't been selling at all, so its discontinued, and UPR.com is blowing them out for $580. Before that I was going with the Sparco Fashion 5, but this suit has teh strech Nomex material, is lighter, is box quilted, and is the same price with the "closeout" deal. They are calling it the Pro-Light because they said they didn't like the S-Strech name. Whatever.
-Tom
| Patrick L | 08-14-2005 05:24 PM |
Racer Wholesale has a special for Nasa and SCCA members. Pro Force 1 helmet, GF505 multi-layer suit, G1 gloves and GF235 shoes from G-Force Racing for $609.
[url]http://www.racerwholesale.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=107&products_id=524[/url]
[url]http://www.racerwholesale.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=107&products_id=524[/url]
| trhoppe | 08-14-2005 05:27 PM |
They also have the 545, and I'm even though its $150 more, its 5 times the suit the 505 is :)
If you don't need a helmet, I got a great deal for the S-Strech suit, Fast-Tech gloves, Speedway shoes, nomex socks, and balaclava for $800.
-Tom
If you don't need a helmet, I got a great deal for the S-Strech suit, Fast-Tech gloves, Speedway shoes, nomex socks, and balaclava for $800.
-Tom
| roofis | 08-14-2005 10:08 PM |
Top Dog, I checked out that site and while I don't know how many other manufacturers or suits have cotton in them, don't like the thought of having it so close to me in a fire.
trhoppe, I'm not looking to get anything right now. I'm just trying to learn more about them so when I am ready to put out the $$, I'll know what it's going towards. I also don't care about bling-ness but I also wanna stay away from the sweatpants wrapped in duck tape look.
I read a thread a while back where someone asked if there was any discernable proof, as in crash test results, on why going with an $800 or $1100 helmet was better than a $200 model. Many people gave something like the phrase "what's your head worth?" in response, and the impression they left is that if you spend the most amount of money you can, you're hands down going to have a better chance of uninjury or less injury in an accident.
How much does this apply to a fire suit? Aside from the weight, it seems that as long as you've got box quilted Nomex you're good to go. Many companies speak of an "innovative new design" or "revolutionary fabrics" or "newest technology in..." but don't ever elaborate further than that. If anyone wants to do competitive racing in the U.S. they need something FIA approved and/or SFI rated anyway.
Oh, and I already have a helmet too.
Thanks for the responses guys keep them coming.
Chris
trhoppe, I'm not looking to get anything right now. I'm just trying to learn more about them so when I am ready to put out the $$, I'll know what it's going towards. I also don't care about bling-ness but I also wanna stay away from the sweatpants wrapped in duck tape look.
I read a thread a while back where someone asked if there was any discernable proof, as in crash test results, on why going with an $800 or $1100 helmet was better than a $200 model. Many people gave something like the phrase "what's your head worth?" in response, and the impression they left is that if you spend the most amount of money you can, you're hands down going to have a better chance of uninjury or less injury in an accident.
How much does this apply to a fire suit? Aside from the weight, it seems that as long as you've got box quilted Nomex you're good to go. Many companies speak of an "innovative new design" or "revolutionary fabrics" or "newest technology in..." but don't ever elaborate further than that. If anyone wants to do competitive racing in the U.S. they need something FIA approved and/or SFI rated anyway.
Oh, and I already have a helmet too.
Thanks for the responses guys keep them coming.
Chris
| trhoppe | 08-14-2005 10:12 PM |
As far as teh driving suit, I think that you are correct. An SFI rating is what protects you. I bet the $1000 Sparco with the 3.2/5 rating doesn't protect you more then the $400 Geforce suit with the same 3.2/5 rating. Its just that the pimpy Sparco will be lighter, fit better, last longer, and pick up chicks. I'm really hoping to pick up chicks with my $1000 Sparco that I payed $500 for :lol: :lol:
-Tom
-Tom
| roofis | 08-14-2005 10:16 PM |
aside from danica patrick and a handfull of others, i've yet to see any chicks in a driving suit or even drawn to driving suits. they don't say AF or HOLLISTER on the front. you loose points for that.
maybe one day though.
maybe one day though.
| trhoppe | 08-14-2005 10:17 PM |
[QUOTE=roofis]aside from danica patrick and a handfull of others, i've yet to see any chicks in a driving suit or even drawn to driving suits. they don't say AF or HOLLISTER on the front. you loose points for that.
maybe one day though.[/QUOTE]
Good call. I should get that embroidered!
-Tom
maybe one day though.[/QUOTE]
Good call. I should get that embroidered!
-Tom
| abaxter34 | 08-15-2005 12:19 AM |
ive never seen them in person but saferacer.com has a a good price on their ultra shield suits. same fire rating as you were mentioning above for even less money.
[url]http://www.saferacer.com/ulshmurasu.html[/url]
[url]http://www.saferacer.com/ulshmurasu.html[/url]
| Zephyr | 08-15-2005 09:18 AM |
Since you are in New Jersey I would suggest that you head up to [URL=http://www.ompusa.com/]Driving Impressions[/URL] in Dover and try on suites. The difference in price mostly comes down to the fit and finish of the suit. If you buy a $300 suit you are going to get a suit that was made for a larger array of drivers and you will usually have to wear Nomex undies with it. I got really lucky when I went up to DI and got a killer deal on an OMP suit that had been a custom order for Hurley Haywood that got screwed up color wise. It fit me very well so I bought it and have been happy ever since.
I would suggest going and trying on suits at minimum because different manufacturers sizes are different too. Addittionally I would keep away from light colored suits too as dirt is very prevelent in racecars.
Z
I would suggest going and trying on suits at minimum because different manufacturers sizes are different too. Addittionally I would keep away from light colored suits too as dirt is very prevelent in racecars.
Z
| Jon Bogert | 08-15-2005 10:22 AM |
Get the lightest suit with the most knit/vent sections that meets SFI 3.2/5 that you can afford.
It's 100x more likely that you'll suffer heat exhaustion in a driving suit than need the flame protection. Also, the real world fire protection offered by any 2-3 layer driving suit is minimal. If you get soaked with burning gasoline, you're going to get crispy no matter if you're wearing cheapo circle track nomex or the finest Italian shiny quilted style.
It's 100x more likely that you'll suffer heat exhaustion in a driving suit than need the flame protection. Also, the real world fire protection offered by any 2-3 layer driving suit is minimal. If you get soaked with burning gasoline, you're going to get crispy no matter if you're wearing cheapo circle track nomex or the finest Italian shiny quilted style.
| Kha0S | 08-15-2005 12:55 PM |
Don't buy any of the treated cotton suits (Proban, PBI, etc.) They're not nearly as effective in the long term as inherently fire-resistant fabrics, and the protection wears out over time and washing.
Get either Nomex or CarbonX... not too many racers have seen CarbonX perform, but if I were buying a suit now rather than two years ago, I'd be getting CarbonX. It's getting extensive use in firefighting, and I got to play with it last summer at the International Association of Fire Chiefs conference... it's [b]awesome[/b] stuff.
Two years ago, I picked up a "Sparco Sprint 5" SFI-3.2A/5 for around $450 at a local race shop. I had to go Sparco instead of OMP since OMP's largest suit wouldn't fit me appropriately in a seated position (I'm 6'4", so the suit was too short). I had to buy the largest Sparco available.
These days, you can get the Impact Racing "Team 1" SFI-5 suit (it's Bill Simpson's new company) for a little north of $700. It's a CarbonX suit, and would be the one I'd get if I were buying today, even though it's more expensive. Once you see a Nomex suit char and shrink in a fire, you'd be willing to spend the extra 50% on a CarbonX suit that won't. Impact Racing is also the first company I've seen that offers Tall sizes.
Whatever you get, try it on first, and sit in a seat as similar to your race seat as possible, make sure that there are no tight spots, pressure points, etc.
/Andrew
Get either Nomex or CarbonX... not too many racers have seen CarbonX perform, but if I were buying a suit now rather than two years ago, I'd be getting CarbonX. It's getting extensive use in firefighting, and I got to play with it last summer at the International Association of Fire Chiefs conference... it's [b]awesome[/b] stuff.
Two years ago, I picked up a "Sparco Sprint 5" SFI-3.2A/5 for around $450 at a local race shop. I had to go Sparco instead of OMP since OMP's largest suit wouldn't fit me appropriately in a seated position (I'm 6'4", so the suit was too short). I had to buy the largest Sparco available.
These days, you can get the Impact Racing "Team 1" SFI-5 suit (it's Bill Simpson's new company) for a little north of $700. It's a CarbonX suit, and would be the one I'd get if I were buying today, even though it's more expensive. Once you see a Nomex suit char and shrink in a fire, you'd be willing to spend the extra 50% on a CarbonX suit that won't. Impact Racing is also the first company I've seen that offers Tall sizes.
Whatever you get, try it on first, and sit in a seat as similar to your race seat as possible, make sure that there are no tight spots, pressure points, etc.
/Andrew
| Kari L. Goings | 08-15-2005 05:54 PM |
There is a place that makes custom made suits that are sfi rated!!! Security race products web address [url]www.racesuits.com[/url] phone # 1-877-865-7694 Give them a try! They made my son a really nice triple layer nomex suit! Tell them that we sent you there! By the way my son is 10 years old and drives the one and only SUBARU quarter midget!
Kari L. Goings
GOINGS GOING GONE RACING
Kari L. Goings
GOINGS GOING GONE RACING
| scoobiegt | 08-15-2005 06:03 PM |
Get a Alpinestars suit. They sponsor SWRT so it has to be good for you too.
GP Pro suits are the way to go. Used by F1 and Rally teams.
GP Pro suits are the way to go. Used by F1 and Rally teams.
| roofis | 08-15-2005 11:37 PM |
wow, i didn't know i had so many options. i also thought alpinestar only made motorcycle gear too. custom suits sound pricey but i'll check it out. i'll also look into carbonx as opposed to nomex. thanks for the help.
| trhoppe | 08-15-2005 11:40 PM |
[QUOTE=scoobiegt]Get a Alpinestars suit. They sponsor SWRT so it has to be good for you too.
GP Pro suits are the way to go. Used by F1 and Rally teams.[/QUOTE] :lol: Are you kidding? While you are at it, get a WRC car! :lol:
-Tom
GP Pro suits are the way to go. Used by F1 and Rally teams.[/QUOTE] :lol: Are you kidding? While you are at it, get a WRC car! :lol:
-Tom
| Chaste Automotive | 08-16-2005 04:14 AM |
Okay take it from someone that has owned four different suits in the last few years,
Suits I have owned:
Sparco Tech 5
Sparco Top 5
OMP Technica
Stand 21 ST 021
I am a person that has a longer torso and shorter limbs so suits fit me a bit strange a size 58 is a bit too tight but a 60 is way to big (5'10" 170-175 LBS. 32-30 waist and inseam for referrence). I bought the OMP and I hated it because it was heavy and fit me tight in the back and it felt like it was pulling along my shoulders.I bought the top 5 it looked great but was heavy and really hot. I bought a tech 5 which I loved because it was the lightest suit on the market and it was not a hot as the TOP 5 but it never it me right I wanted a 58 that was cut differently. So I bought a made to measure suit from Stand 21 which is what I have now and it fits me great and looks nice but was not cheap and is a little on the hot side. Now from what i have seen the Alpine Stars suits look pretty cool but they are unfinished as a whole. IF you look at stitching patterns on the sleeves of a Sparco the have this double stich seam on them that is far superior to any of the other suits I have looked at which means they are better when it comes to heat transfer. I personally to not care for the Simpson or similar model suits that I have seen. Now Having just looked at the Puma suits I would have to say that there fit and finish as well as cut is so good it will be my next suit.
Suits I have owned:
Sparco Tech 5
Sparco Top 5
OMP Technica
Stand 21 ST 021
I am a person that has a longer torso and shorter limbs so suits fit me a bit strange a size 58 is a bit too tight but a 60 is way to big (5'10" 170-175 LBS. 32-30 waist and inseam for referrence). I bought the OMP and I hated it because it was heavy and fit me tight in the back and it felt like it was pulling along my shoulders.I bought the top 5 it looked great but was heavy and really hot. I bought a tech 5 which I loved because it was the lightest suit on the market and it was not a hot as the TOP 5 but it never it me right I wanted a 58 that was cut differently. So I bought a made to measure suit from Stand 21 which is what I have now and it fits me great and looks nice but was not cheap and is a little on the hot side. Now from what i have seen the Alpine Stars suits look pretty cool but they are unfinished as a whole. IF you look at stitching patterns on the sleeves of a Sparco the have this double stich seam on them that is far superior to any of the other suits I have looked at which means they are better when it comes to heat transfer. I personally to not care for the Simpson or similar model suits that I have seen. Now Having just looked at the Puma suits I would have to say that there fit and finish as well as cut is so good it will be my next suit.
| turboICE | 08-16-2005 09:58 AM |
More people die in heat induced heart attacks while racing than fire every year - other than the time to burn rating - coolness and breathability is a large part of what you pay for. If you go with a less expensive suit that ends up being very hot (as I did) - you will still end up paying more than you thought when you buy the cool shirt to make 30 minutes in a 130* driver seat bearable in August.
| Kha0S | 08-16-2005 11:54 AM |
I agree with the comments about driver heat tolerance too... Sean and I lucked out in Maine, but with temps ranging from mid-70s to mid-80s and sunny, it was still a tough time to be wearing a multilayer nomex suit. Good underwear is a must -- either fire-resistant nomex or carbonx (both of which wick reasonably well) are the smartest idea... I didn't have the cash to spend on short notice for good underwear, so I ended up wearing a pair of Starter athletic shorts (made of a Dri-Wick type material) and a t-shirt, and was alright.
| roofis | 08-16-2005 02:57 PM |
hmm, I didn't think much about the heat tolerance idea until now. The Puma Light Cat suit is about $1400. That's out of the question. Alpinestar is about $1100 which is still a buttload more than I was looking to spend, and these are not including underwear, gloves, and shoes. That being said, I guess I fall in the shopping for a "budget suit" category.
So since I'm not able to spend $1k+ just on the one piece suit right now, maybe a better idea would be to go with a less expensive but still lightweight 2 layer suit and Carbonx underwear. I don't know what prices are like for Carbonx but I know Nomex shirts and pants run about $60-90 a piece. This may come out to about the same price as that more expensive suit though. I need to price stuff out.
Stretching myself to the $800 tag of the Sparco 5 is more doable, but keeping in mind, I've never tried on a suit before so I need to visit some showrooms.
and Zephyr, I'm not in Jersey anymore...Montana for now. I should change my info i suppose. That means anything I do with shops and showrooms has to be done in Seattle or Portland, both about an 8-10 hour drive away.
I think I need to call Demon Tweeks.
You guys rock, thanks for all the info.
So since I'm not able to spend $1k+ just on the one piece suit right now, maybe a better idea would be to go with a less expensive but still lightweight 2 layer suit and Carbonx underwear. I don't know what prices are like for Carbonx but I know Nomex shirts and pants run about $60-90 a piece. This may come out to about the same price as that more expensive suit though. I need to price stuff out.
Stretching myself to the $800 tag of the Sparco 5 is more doable, but keeping in mind, I've never tried on a suit before so I need to visit some showrooms.
and Zephyr, I'm not in Jersey anymore...Montana for now. I should change my info i suppose. That means anything I do with shops and showrooms has to be done in Seattle or Portland, both about an 8-10 hour drive away.
I think I need to call Demon Tweeks.
You guys rock, thanks for all the info.
| JnJassociates | 08-16-2005 03:20 PM |
Has anyone bothered to look at the Bell/Pyrotect suits??
They are well made and less expensive then some of the other brands...
Take a look here: [url]http://www.pyrotect.com/[/url]
Then contact us for even better pricing. ;)
Bryan
They are well made and less expensive then some of the other brands...
Take a look here: [url]http://www.pyrotect.com/[/url]
Then contact us for even better pricing. ;)
Bryan
| Subie Gal | 08-16-2005 04:38 PM |
[url]www.racerwholesale.com[/url] (correctly rated, and affordable !!)
[url]www.stansracegear.com[/url]
i run a sparco - and it's hot. bloody hot. i really need a cool suit :(
HANS first.. cool suit 2nd...
link to my suit [url=http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/news/subaru-sportsillustrated.jpg]*click here*[/url]
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
[url]www.stansracegear.com[/url]
i run a sparco - and it's hot. bloody hot. i really need a cool suit :(
HANS first.. cool suit 2nd...
link to my suit [url=http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/news/subaru-sportsillustrated.jpg]*click here*[/url]
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
| scoobiegt | 08-16-2005 07:00 PM |
Do you really need all this fire protection? I mean when i was riding in a JGTC car, all i needed was a basic 2 layer Nomex suit. Do you need all the nomex underwear too?
| roofis | 08-16-2005 07:23 PM |
you don't [I]need[/I] a full carbonx (fireproof) one piece suit with underwear, or even a 3 layer nomex (fire resistant) suit with underwear.
as long as it meets the required ratings and/or specifications that are determined by whomever is sanctioning the race, you're ok. it's like a helmet, as long as you're going with an sa2000 you're fine, but if you want carbon fiber instead of fiberglass, adjustable padding, nomex linings or anything past the minimum requirements, it's up to you.
if you were referring to me personally, nasa and rally america have their specifics on what they want drivers using and i'll be adhering to that. right now i like the thought of a 2 piece nomex suit i can wear with carbonx underwear. i'll probably be going this route, mainly because most 2 layer are less $$ and are usually lighter than 3 layers of the equivalent price. that's generalizing, but lightweight, 3 layer nomex III is <$$$ than lightweight 2 layer nomex III.
also, some people feel safer spending $1500 on fireproofing themselves while others aren't as concerned or may get the same satisfaction from spending a fraction of that price.
bottom line: as long as you're within requirement, anything extra is your choice.
as long as it meets the required ratings and/or specifications that are determined by whomever is sanctioning the race, you're ok. it's like a helmet, as long as you're going with an sa2000 you're fine, but if you want carbon fiber instead of fiberglass, adjustable padding, nomex linings or anything past the minimum requirements, it's up to you.
if you were referring to me personally, nasa and rally america have their specifics on what they want drivers using and i'll be adhering to that. right now i like the thought of a 2 piece nomex suit i can wear with carbonx underwear. i'll probably be going this route, mainly because most 2 layer are less $$ and are usually lighter than 3 layers of the equivalent price. that's generalizing, but lightweight, 3 layer nomex III is <$$$ than lightweight 2 layer nomex III.
also, some people feel safer spending $1500 on fireproofing themselves while others aren't as concerned or may get the same satisfaction from spending a fraction of that price.
bottom line: as long as you're within requirement, anything extra is your choice.
| turboICE | 08-16-2005 07:35 PM |
[QUOTE=roofis]bottom line: as long as you're within requirement, anything extra is up to you.[/QUOTE]Or up to any incident you might be involved in...
The basic requirement 10 seconds till [i]second[/i] degree burns. Not sure Jr. found that to be any comfort.
Same thing could be said for helmet and H&N restraints - don't go to minimum requirements go to beyond what you may be subjected to in an incident - that is how safety equipment becomes effective.
The only reason I am good for myself with the 5 suits is because I have a fire system, rather than a hand held bottle many club race classes including mine are permitted. If I had a handheld I would really look for a 10 suit or always wear the top and bottom fire wear which would have been miserable at SP this past weekend.
The basic requirement 10 seconds till [i]second[/i] degree burns. Not sure Jr. found that to be any comfort.
Same thing could be said for helmet and H&N restraints - don't go to minimum requirements go to beyond what you may be subjected to in an incident - that is how safety equipment becomes effective.
The only reason I am good for myself with the 5 suits is because I have a fire system, rather than a hand held bottle many club race classes including mine are permitted. If I had a handheld I would really look for a 10 suit or always wear the top and bottom fire wear which would have been miserable at SP this past weekend.
| roofis | 08-16-2005 07:36 PM |
oh, and subiegal-
what are you thinking of switching to for a cooler suit? do you get real hot in the sparco in general, or only on excessively hot days? i guess a sunny day at oregon trail compared to the ramada expressin the mojave desert would be what i'm getting at. is it 2 or 3 layer and are you using nomex underwear too?
what are you thinking of switching to for a cooler suit? do you get real hot in the sparco in general, or only on excessively hot days? i guess a sunny day at oregon trail compared to the ramada expressin the mojave desert would be what i'm getting at. is it 2 or 3 layer and are you using nomex underwear too?
| Jon Bogert | 08-17-2005 01:05 AM |
[QUOTE=JnJassociates]Has anyone bothered to look at the Bell/Pyrotect suits??[/QUOTE]Yes. I have the red white and blue Pyrotect NASA version. Lots of stretch panels for comfort sitting in the rally car for hours.
[url]http://bellmotorsports.com/suit_nasa.shtml[/url]
Not exactly cool in July, but better than some, I guess.
[url]http://bellmotorsports.com/suit_nasa.shtml[/url]
Not exactly cool in July, but better than some, I guess.
| roofis | 08-17-2005 10:57 AM |
would so many stretch panels compromise protection/fire retardancy at all? retardancy isn't a word, but i like it anyway.
i have to look more closely at the pyrotect stuff. i have a helmet from them and i like it but that's a helmet. pyrotect has all these ratings i've never seen before and they make one layer teflon lined suits. never heard of anything like that. i'd imagine teflon to be hotter than fiberglass, which is supposedly what nomex is made of, but correct me if i'm wrong.
i have to look more closely at the pyrotect stuff. i have a helmet from them and i like it but that's a helmet. pyrotect has all these ratings i've never seen before and they make one layer teflon lined suits. never heard of anything like that. i'd imagine teflon to be hotter than fiberglass, which is supposedly what nomex is made of, but correct me if i'm wrong.
| Subie Gal | 08-17-2005 03:12 PM |
[QUOTE=roofis]oh, and subiegal-
what are you thinking of switching to for a cooler suit? do you get real hot in the sparco in general, or only on excessively hot days? i guess a sunny day at oregon trail compared to the ramada expressin the mojave desert would be what i'm getting at. is it 2 or 3 layer and are you using nomex underwear too?[/QUOTE]
personally i'm sick of being hot
i'm not switching suits
i'll be adding a cool suit (google it)
it's hot at 40F and unbearable at 100F
I've already had heat stroke/exhaustion once.
i wear a 3 layer nomex sparco
no additional nomex underwear
Jamie
what are you thinking of switching to for a cooler suit? do you get real hot in the sparco in general, or only on excessively hot days? i guess a sunny day at oregon trail compared to the ramada expressin the mojave desert would be what i'm getting at. is it 2 or 3 layer and are you using nomex underwear too?[/QUOTE]
personally i'm sick of being hot
i'm not switching suits
i'll be adding a cool suit (google it)
it's hot at 40F and unbearable at 100F
I've already had heat stroke/exhaustion once.
i wear a 3 layer nomex sparco
no additional nomex underwear
Jamie
| Zephyr | 08-17-2005 03:47 PM |
An additional item to consider when buying a 2 layer suit and having to wear underware with it is that when you come off track and are hot as all hell with a 3 layer suit you can quickly unzip it and pull the top section down and start cooling right away. With a two layer with underware you have to peal off an additional stinky sweaty layer from both ones top and bottom.
With road racing quite often they will impound the top finishers of each class in a race group to weigh the cars to make sure they are not under weight. The minimum weights are "post race with driver" this means that you must remain with your car and they would like you to keep your suit on. On very hot days sitting in a hot racecar on hot blacktop of the impound area is not very fun. Being able to pull ones suit down to ones waist quickly is quite nice. Last season a driver was disqualified because he went back to his padock space and changed rather then going straight to impound.
Z
With road racing quite often they will impound the top finishers of each class in a race group to weigh the cars to make sure they are not under weight. The minimum weights are "post race with driver" this means that you must remain with your car and they would like you to keep your suit on. On very hot days sitting in a hot racecar on hot blacktop of the impound area is not very fun. Being able to pull ones suit down to ones waist quickly is quite nice. Last season a driver was disqualified because he went back to his padock space and changed rather then going straight to impound.
Z
| turboICE | 08-17-2005 04:55 PM |
Z, 3 layer is not required to go commando, there are alternatives. 3 layer [i]or[/i] various FIA [i]or[/i] SFI3-2A/5 is the only requirement. I have both a 1 layer (bell) and a 2 layer (sparco) that meet the SFI requirement.
| Zephyr | 08-18-2005 02:08 PM |
:banana: Ed, you know what I like to wear under my nomex. :banana:
| roofis | 08-22-2005 11:11 AM |
ok, way to remember i have a thread started.
turboice-
i wasn't trying to suggest that just because there are minimum requirements, one should go by them as an easy and cheap way out of investing in better protection. i agree that someone should definitely go beyond the minimums, and i will be doing that myself when i finally decide to buy. however, $$ has a strong impact on what amount of protection people go with.
i simply cannot put out the price of something like the puma or alpinestar now. in the future, maybe even with sponsors...then yeah. but i definitely agree with you.
subiegal-
i know what a cool suit is, i just thought you meant a cool suit..as in better ventilating and lighter and that sorta stuff. what were the conditions like with your first episode of heat exhaustion?
zephyr-
that's a good point about sitting in the car with the hot,sweaty suit and underwear on. i'd imagine though that if you can unzip the suit and take off the top half, it won't be much harder to take off the underwear shirt.
are there rules against sitting around in the car bare chested?..if that's what you mean. or does the impound take place far enough away from combustibles that it's not really an issue?
ok, here's a new question; CarbonX, how is it that this stuff can be held on the skin in the form of a snug fitting shirt or pair of underpants, WHILE being surrounded by flame, and not burn the skin or even "cook" it via heat transfer? I've seen a few advertisements for Nomex saying stuff like "reduces need for skin grafting". That's nasty stuff. If Nomex can burn into and fuse with the skin (because it's able to catch fire while Carbonx isn't), I'm staying as far away from it as I can. At least for underwear.
now, i'll say that i've never touched or seen up close both carbonx nor nomex,
but with the breahtability and the 'wickability' it supposedly provide, i've the mental image of it being resemblant of underarmor or something close to it.
turboice-
i wasn't trying to suggest that just because there are minimum requirements, one should go by them as an easy and cheap way out of investing in better protection. i agree that someone should definitely go beyond the minimums, and i will be doing that myself when i finally decide to buy. however, $$ has a strong impact on what amount of protection people go with.
i simply cannot put out the price of something like the puma or alpinestar now. in the future, maybe even with sponsors...then yeah. but i definitely agree with you.
subiegal-
i know what a cool suit is, i just thought you meant a cool suit..as in better ventilating and lighter and that sorta stuff. what were the conditions like with your first episode of heat exhaustion?
zephyr-
that's a good point about sitting in the car with the hot,sweaty suit and underwear on. i'd imagine though that if you can unzip the suit and take off the top half, it won't be much harder to take off the underwear shirt.
are there rules against sitting around in the car bare chested?..if that's what you mean. or does the impound take place far enough away from combustibles that it's not really an issue?
ok, here's a new question; CarbonX, how is it that this stuff can be held on the skin in the form of a snug fitting shirt or pair of underpants, WHILE being surrounded by flame, and not burn the skin or even "cook" it via heat transfer? I've seen a few advertisements for Nomex saying stuff like "reduces need for skin grafting". That's nasty stuff. If Nomex can burn into and fuse with the skin (because it's able to catch fire while Carbonx isn't), I'm staying as far away from it as I can. At least for underwear.
now, i'll say that i've never touched or seen up close both carbonx nor nomex,
but with the breahtability and the 'wickability' it supposedly provide, i've the mental image of it being resemblant of underarmor or something close to it.
| Kha0S | 08-22-2005 11:54 AM |
[QUOTE=roofis]
ok, here's a new question; CarbonX, how is it that this stuff can be held on the skin in the form of a snug fitting shirt or pair of underpants, WHILE being surrounded by flame, and not burn the skin or even "cook" it via heat transfer? I've seen a few advertisements for Nomex saying stuff like "reduces need for skin grafting". That's nasty stuff. If Nomex can burn into and fuse with the skin (because it's able to catch fire while Carbonx isn't), I'm staying as far away from it as I can. At least for underwear.
[/QUOTE]
The fiber used in CarbonX is called OPAN, or oxidized polyacrylonitrile. It's a remarkably good thermal insulator (that is, it has very low conductivity with heat). With a proper weave, there's no way for the heat to penetrate the fabric. Futhermore, when heated, the OPAN fibers will absorb the energy and expand, minimizing any air gap in the weave and eliminating any free air space in the material.
Nomex takes a different approach, which involves some thermal insulation, but under very high heat, it also absorbs energy, but chars and shrinks. This causes the material to press harder onto the underlying skin and also progressively increases the thermal conductivity of the fabric, reducing protection substantially.
The big thing to remember is that Nomex has been around for thirty years... CarbonX is brand new and is only just starting to penetrate the market. I was incredibly skeptical about the stuff until I got to see some live demonstrations and play with it at the IAFC conference in New Orleans last year (one of the biggest firefighting conferences in the world). After seeing that, I'm never buying another piece of Nomex again, if I have the choice.
I'm not in any way affiliated with the manufacturers or distributors of either fabric technology. I'm only interested in seeing my fellow motorsport enthusiasts get the most effective and modern safety technology out there.
/Andrew
ok, here's a new question; CarbonX, how is it that this stuff can be held on the skin in the form of a snug fitting shirt or pair of underpants, WHILE being surrounded by flame, and not burn the skin or even "cook" it via heat transfer? I've seen a few advertisements for Nomex saying stuff like "reduces need for skin grafting". That's nasty stuff. If Nomex can burn into and fuse with the skin (because it's able to catch fire while Carbonx isn't), I'm staying as far away from it as I can. At least for underwear.
[/QUOTE]
The fiber used in CarbonX is called OPAN, or oxidized polyacrylonitrile. It's a remarkably good thermal insulator (that is, it has very low conductivity with heat). With a proper weave, there's no way for the heat to penetrate the fabric. Futhermore, when heated, the OPAN fibers will absorb the energy and expand, minimizing any air gap in the weave and eliminating any free air space in the material.
Nomex takes a different approach, which involves some thermal insulation, but under very high heat, it also absorbs energy, but chars and shrinks. This causes the material to press harder onto the underlying skin and also progressively increases the thermal conductivity of the fabric, reducing protection substantially.
The big thing to remember is that Nomex has been around for thirty years... CarbonX is brand new and is only just starting to penetrate the market. I was incredibly skeptical about the stuff until I got to see some live demonstrations and play with it at the IAFC conference in New Orleans last year (one of the biggest firefighting conferences in the world). After seeing that, I'm never buying another piece of Nomex again, if I have the choice.
I'm not in any way affiliated with the manufacturers or distributors of either fabric technology. I'm only interested in seeing my fellow motorsport enthusiasts get the most effective and modern safety technology out there.
/Andrew
| roofis | 08-22-2005 01:21 PM |
andrew-
really good info there. i wonder how well it'd work to line as much of the interior body panels of the car as possible with carbonx to help keep some heat out from hot, sunny days. i suppose wrapping the exhaust piping and turbo housing in the stuff couldn't hurt either, all trying to keep engine bay and cabin temps down.
really good info there. i wonder how well it'd work to line as much of the interior body panels of the car as possible with carbonx to help keep some heat out from hot, sunny days. i suppose wrapping the exhaust piping and turbo housing in the stuff couldn't hurt either, all trying to keep engine bay and cabin temps down.
| Chaste Automotive | 08-23-2005 02:07 AM |
First to anyone that wants a cool suit just buy the shirt you can get the hoses and fittings on mcmaster.com just have look around a bit (Jamie now you can get your cool suit) and get a cooler with a electric 12v pump and you are done.
Roffis it is a bit confusing since so many people have so many opinions but here it is in a nutshell. Buy the best suit that you can afford, there is a reason that things cost more and other less but find something that you can live with, alpinestars is a really cool looking suit (and they can be bought for a lot less than 1k) but it is not as good as sparco, puma, or stand 21. Find a quality product at a reasonable price there are a ton of places on the web that you can purchase from (look outside the US for better deals).
Roffis it is a bit confusing since so many people have so many opinions but here it is in a nutshell. Buy the best suit that you can afford, there is a reason that things cost more and other less but find something that you can live with, alpinestars is a really cool looking suit (and they can be bought for a lot less than 1k) but it is not as good as sparco, puma, or stand 21. Find a quality product at a reasonable price there are a ton of places on the web that you can purchase from (look outside the US for better deals).
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét