| HoRo1 | 05-06-2004 01:41 PM |
No Spanish GP thread yet?
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What is going on? Nobody cares anymore?
| gtguy | 05-06-2004 02:13 PM |
There is now...
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1. MS (the cloudy and cool forecast looks like Bridgestone weather)
2. JB (he's due, and BAR are fast at Barcelona)
3. RB (he still won't be fast enough, but will podium)
4. TS (yep, Sato will just miss out)
5. FA (always fast at home)
6. JPM (he'll either crash M. Schumacher, or wallow around in the top ten)
7. RS (another hoseoff will cost him places)
8. KR (Raikkonen should snag another point)
Kevin
2. JB (he's due, and BAR are fast at Barcelona)
3. RB (he still won't be fast enough, but will podium)
4. TS (yep, Sato will just miss out)
5. FA (always fast at home)
6. JPM (he'll either crash M. Schumacher, or wallow around in the top ten)
7. RS (another hoseoff will cost him places)
8. KR (Raikkonen should snag another point)
Kevin
| BillT | 05-06-2004 02:57 PM |
1. MS - Its very difficult not to pick him until someone shows that they are capable of at least making in close, the cool weather will also help
2. FA - He'll finally do well in qualifying and put on a good race for the home crowd
3. RB - he's in a red car
4. JB - the podium streak ends, but he still puts in a great drive
5. Whine Pablo Moan-toya - will blame everyone and everything but hims own driving skill for his subpar outing
6. JT - Another solid outing for Jarno
7. RS - Will continue to devalue himself for next year with a poor showing in Spain
8. MW - his engine gremlins will be gone for this race and he'll put in a good race
2. FA - He'll finally do well in qualifying and put on a good race for the home crowd
3. RB - he's in a red car
4. JB - the podium streak ends, but he still puts in a great drive
5. Whine Pablo Moan-toya - will blame everyone and everything but hims own driving skill for his subpar outing
6. JT - Another solid outing for Jarno
7. RS - Will continue to devalue himself for next year with a poor showing in Spain
8. MW - his engine gremlins will be gone for this race and he'll put in a good race
| ellisnc | 05-06-2004 07:11 PM |
sorry, lame post but...
BANZAI HONDA!!!! :D
I work for Honda R&D so I had to :)
BANZAI HONDA!!!! :D
I work for Honda R&D so I had to :)
| wistful | 05-06-2004 08:53 PM |
Gooooo Button!!!
Don
Don
| ArtGecko | 05-06-2004 11:32 PM |
M.Schumacher
R.Barrichello
F.Alonso
J.Button
J.Montoya
T.Sato
R.Schumacher
K.Raikkonen
:confused:
Smorris
R.Barrichello
F.Alonso
J.Button
J.Montoya
T.Sato
R.Schumacher
K.Raikkonen
:confused:
Smorris
| OnTheGas | 05-06-2004 11:58 PM |
Showtime @ Barthuhlona
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[list=1][*][b]Michael[/b] - Nobody can touch his race pace[*][b]Rubinho[/b] - Ferrari will carry the day[*][b]Jenson[/b] - Another podium[*][b]Juan Pablo[/b] - Might see a good "Michelin class" dogfight here![*][b]Fernando[/b] - Consistantly in the points... Home track, too![*][b]Jarno[/b] - Consistantly in the points near his team-mate[*][b]Ralf[/b] - He's got bad karma, or something...[*][b]Takuma[/b] - Another team-mate suffering from bad karma[/list=1]
| artkevin | 05-07-2004 12:29 AM |
No clue. I would like a change though but if I had to put money on it it would be on the german of course.
| grandpa rex | 05-07-2004 06:45 AM |
1. MS
2. Button
3. Barichello
4. Alonso
5. Montoya
6. Sato
7. Ralfie
8. Trulli
2. Button
3. Barichello
4. Alonso
5. Montoya
6. Sato
7. Ralfie
8. Trulli
| BillT | 05-07-2004 10:54 AM |
Looks like last week...
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Ferrari had the best times for the first practice session with a 1:15.6 for MS and a 1:16.0 for RB. Like last week, BAR came back in the second practice session to take the top times with a 1:15.9 for JB and a 1:16.1 for Davidson. Also like last week, the JB's fastest lap wasn't quicker than MS's fastest lap.
To put this in a bit of perspective, pole for last years Spanish Grand Prix was a 1:17.7 by MS and fastest lap during the race was a 1:20.1 by RB. If the practice session is indicative of times set during qualifying, the 2004 cars are about 2 seconds faster than the 2003 cars...pretty amazing!
To put this in a bit of perspective, pole for last years Spanish Grand Prix was a 1:17.7 by MS and fastest lap during the race was a 1:20.1 by RB. If the practice session is indicative of times set during qualifying, the 2004 cars are about 2 seconds faster than the 2003 cars...pretty amazing!
| ThinkGlobal | 05-07-2004 07:49 PM |
I don't know, but the first two sessions leave an interesting top three
P. No Driver Team - Engine Tyres Times Ave/Gaps Laps
1. 9 BUTTON BAR Honda M 1'15"935 219.361 Km/h 19
2. 35 DAVIDSON BAR Honda M 1'16"188 + 0'00"253 34
3. 38 ZONTA Toyota M 1'16"360 + 0'00"425 37
P. No Driver Team - Engine Tyres Times Ave/Gaps Laps
1. 9 BUTTON BAR Honda M 1'15"935 219.361 Km/h 19
2. 35 DAVIDSON BAR Honda M 1'16"188 + 0'00"253 34
3. 38 ZONTA Toyota M 1'16"360 + 0'00"425 37
| AndyRoo | 05-07-2004 08:20 PM |
I forget who i submitted for the pick 8...but it was something like this:
1. MS
2. Alonso
3. Button
4. Rubins
5. Trulli
then i forget.
i put Alonso over Button for some reason
1. MS
2. Alonso
3. Button
4. Rubins
5. Trulli
then i forget.
i put Alonso over Button for some reason
| johnfelstead | 05-07-2004 09:44 PM |
1. Button
2. Alonso
3. Barichello
4. R.Schumacher
5. Sato
6. Trulli
7. Raikkonen
8. Webber
Shuey and Montoya to crash on the first lap. :disco:
2. Alonso
3. Barichello
4. R.Schumacher
5. Sato
6. Trulli
7. Raikkonen
8. Webber
Shuey and Montoya to crash on the first lap. :disco:
| rupertberr | 05-08-2004 11:15 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]1. Button
2. Alonso
3. Barichello
4. R.Schumacher
5. Sato
6. Trulli
7. Raikkonen
8. Webber
Shuey and Montoya to crash on the first lap. :disco: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep! Sounds good to me.:D
[B]1. Button
2. Alonso
3. Barichello
4. R.Schumacher
5. Sato
6. Trulli
7. Raikkonen
8. Webber
Shuey and Montoya to crash on the first lap. :disco: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep! Sounds good to me.:D
| gtguy | 05-08-2004 12:22 PM |
John might get his wish. Schumacher is P1, Montoya P2 for qualifying. :lol: Both were playing it pretty close to the vest in the press conference, but I think that Montoya is figuring that Schumacher has a lot more to lose than he does, in the result of a first-corner shlemozzle. Given Montoya's pace on cold tires, I would expect him to pass Schumacher, which will make the race very interesting, as Montoya will then make his car VERY wide. :lol:
Sato was fast, and so was Button, who was undone by a deflating left rear tire, to his chagrin. I think that Barrichello is on harder tires, and more fuel than Schumacher, whose lap was pretty astonishing, particularly when he said that he just cruised the final sector.
Should be an interesting race tomorrow.
Kevin
Sato was fast, and so was Button, who was undone by a deflating left rear tire, to his chagrin. I think that Barrichello is on harder tires, and more fuel than Schumacher, whose lap was pretty astonishing, particularly when he said that he just cruised the final sector.
Should be an interesting race tomorrow.
Kevin
| OnTheGas | 05-08-2004 02:47 PM |
1st Lap... Does it really matter?
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The Ferrari race pace should be faster again than the Michelin runners. But the difference is that Ferrari's Bridgestones maintain a faster pace over the length of the run, while the Michelin runners are quicker on their 1st / 2nd lap, and then their performance degrades quickly to a slower pace than the Bridgestones.
That is how Juan was able to challenge Michael at Imola, and that is how he will challenge Michael during the 1st lap at Barcelona. But it wouldn't really matter if Juan or another Michelin is able to get by Michael, as after 2 stops, he (with the help of Ross Brawn on the pit wall), will be past all Michelin runners in Michael's worst case 1st lap scenario (barring crashing out, of course)...
So if a Michelin runner leads the 1st lap, it doesn't really matter!
What will be more interesting is to see if Rubens, starting down on the 3rd row, will pass all the Michelin runners for a Ferrari 1, 2! If I had money to bet... I'd bet yes.
The Michelin class is perhaps the most interesting, with Renault and Williams vs. BAR... I'm most interested in that...
I believe I understand why BAR is the upstart team this year, able to mix it up with the Williams and Renault chassis, and why McLaren is so disappointing. An interesting article on AtlasF1 explained that the McLaren, Renault, and Williams chassis were designed to Michelin front tires prior to the "tire-gate" controversy of the Hungarian GP last season. If you recall, Michael's Ferrari was lapped at that race, Ferrari looked hopeless for winning another drivers or constructors championship. Then it was announced that the Michelin front tires were not following the letter of the regulations, by being designed to wear in such as way as to become effectively wider. Michelin quickly changed the design of the front tires for the following race. Meanwhile, Williams, McLaren, and Renault had their 2004 seasons designed to the wider Michelin front tire. BAR began their design of this 2004 car later, and were able to design it to new, different front tire that Michelin rolled out to for the Italian GP at Monza (following Hungary).
Kevin - What was your source that Jenson had a deflated tire?
Ken
That is how Juan was able to challenge Michael at Imola, and that is how he will challenge Michael during the 1st lap at Barcelona. But it wouldn't really matter if Juan or another Michelin is able to get by Michael, as after 2 stops, he (with the help of Ross Brawn on the pit wall), will be past all Michelin runners in Michael's worst case 1st lap scenario (barring crashing out, of course)...
So if a Michelin runner leads the 1st lap, it doesn't really matter!
What will be more interesting is to see if Rubens, starting down on the 3rd row, will pass all the Michelin runners for a Ferrari 1, 2! If I had money to bet... I'd bet yes.
The Michelin class is perhaps the most interesting, with Renault and Williams vs. BAR... I'm most interested in that...
I believe I understand why BAR is the upstart team this year, able to mix it up with the Williams and Renault chassis, and why McLaren is so disappointing. An interesting article on AtlasF1 explained that the McLaren, Renault, and Williams chassis were designed to Michelin front tires prior to the "tire-gate" controversy of the Hungarian GP last season. If you recall, Michael's Ferrari was lapped at that race, Ferrari looked hopeless for winning another drivers or constructors championship. Then it was announced that the Michelin front tires were not following the letter of the regulations, by being designed to wear in such as way as to become effectively wider. Michelin quickly changed the design of the front tires for the following race. Meanwhile, Williams, McLaren, and Renault had their 2004 seasons designed to the wider Michelin front tire. BAR began their design of this 2004 car later, and were able to design it to new, different front tire that Michelin rolled out to for the Italian GP at Monza (following Hungary).
Kevin - What was your source that Jenson had a deflated tire?
Ken
| StuBeck | 05-08-2004 02:52 PM |
Are you sure that BAR designed their car later? Or did they possibly just design it for bridgestone tires?
And on Speed channel they went over the entire coverage of his car deflating through that turn, didn't have enough airpressure built up.
And on Speed channel they went over the entire coverage of his car deflating through that turn, didn't have enough airpressure built up.
| rupertberr | 05-08-2004 02:56 PM |
They mentioned it on the Speed coverage and replays seemed to show the tire almost coming of it's bead. Jensen also mentioned a sudden gust of wind at the point where he went off.
| BillT | 05-08-2004 03:44 PM |
It looks like we should have a pretty exiciting race. The start and first several corners should be interesting with MS and JPM battling it out for early supremecy - if JPM can pass MS early on, I only expect that lead to last until the first pit stop or maybe the second (similar to JB and MS at Imola). We also have some very fast runners that qualified back in the pack - FA in 8th, MW in 9th, KR in 13th, and JB in 14th - which should make for some exciting passing back in the field.
To me, it looks pretty good for MS. While I think JPM can keep up or surpass MS for a couple of laps, I doubt his ability to keep it up for an entire race.
To me, it looks pretty good for MS. While I think JPM can keep up or surpass MS for a couple of laps, I doubt his ability to keep it up for an entire race.
| OnTheGas | 05-08-2004 06:24 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by StuBeck [/i]
[B]And on Speed channel they went over the entire coverage of his car deflating through that turn, didn't have enough airpressure built up.[/B][/QUOTE]Stu - Thanks for replying!
Looks like SpeedTV has the exclusive scoop on this story, since neither BAR, nor Michelin, nor anyone in the paddocks has said or reported anything about the tire pressures being too low.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by StuBeck [/i]
[B]Are you sure that BAR designed their car later? Or did they possibly just design it for bridgestone tires?[/B][/QUOTE]Good questions... and you're right! BAR did not design the 006 chassis later. It was designed for the narrower, non-tapering B'stone front tires. Whereas the other Michelin teams designed to the tapering, wider front tire.
Let me paraphrase the article, written by Deiter Rencken
Here is his time-line:
[list][b]Aug 24th - Hungarian GP[/b][*]Featured the 1st win for young Fernando[*]This race was also [b]the 7th victory in a row for Michelin runners[/b]![/list][list][b]Last week of August, first weeks of Sept.[/b][*]Michelin told by FIA that their prior victories stand, but the front tires will be subject to inspection after the race to see if they are still compliant.[*]Michelin scrambles and quickly puts together new front tires for the Italian GP on Sept 14th.[*]A week prior to Italian GP, the Michelin teams test the new tires. The teams learn that the new narrow, non-tapering tires require significant changes to the front suspension settings.[*]Meanwhile, [b]McLaren[/b] had already begun building the MP4-19. The design had been frozen earlier, as a straightforward evolution of the MP4-18.[*][b]Williams[/b] was the 1st team to launch their 2004 car (Jan 5th), so they must have already started the manufacturing process in September, which means the design was frozen before September as well.[*][b]Renault[/b] has dual design team philosophy (which originated from Mike Gascoyne), to design a car in alternate seasons. Which means the design foundations of the R24 were laid in 2002 immediately after Michelin introduced the tapered front tire.[*][b]BAR[/b] only received clearance to run Michelins in November, so the 006 was designed to run on the narrower (non-tapering) front tires of Bridgestones, which apparently are more compatible to the present non-tapering Michelins.[/list][list][b]Sept 14th - Italian GP @ Monza[/b][*]Michael wins![*]This is the first of [b]7 straight victories for Bridgestone runners[/b]![/list]
Thanks again, Stu!
Ken
[B]And on Speed channel they went over the entire coverage of his car deflating through that turn, didn't have enough airpressure built up.[/B][/QUOTE]Stu - Thanks for replying!
Looks like SpeedTV has the exclusive scoop on this story, since neither BAR, nor Michelin, nor anyone in the paddocks has said or reported anything about the tire pressures being too low.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by StuBeck [/i]
[B]Are you sure that BAR designed their car later? Or did they possibly just design it for bridgestone tires?[/B][/QUOTE]Good questions... and you're right! BAR did not design the 006 chassis later. It was designed for the narrower, non-tapering B'stone front tires. Whereas the other Michelin teams designed to the tapering, wider front tire.
Let me paraphrase the article, written by Deiter Rencken
Here is his time-line:
[list][b]Aug 24th - Hungarian GP[/b][*]Featured the 1st win for young Fernando[*]This race was also [b]the 7th victory in a row for Michelin runners[/b]![/list][list][b]Last week of August, first weeks of Sept.[/b][*]Michelin told by FIA that their prior victories stand, but the front tires will be subject to inspection after the race to see if they are still compliant.[*]Michelin scrambles and quickly puts together new front tires for the Italian GP on Sept 14th.[*]A week prior to Italian GP, the Michelin teams test the new tires. The teams learn that the new narrow, non-tapering tires require significant changes to the front suspension settings.[*]Meanwhile, [b]McLaren[/b] had already begun building the MP4-19. The design had been frozen earlier, as a straightforward evolution of the MP4-18.[*][b]Williams[/b] was the 1st team to launch their 2004 car (Jan 5th), so they must have already started the manufacturing process in September, which means the design was frozen before September as well.[*][b]Renault[/b] has dual design team philosophy (which originated from Mike Gascoyne), to design a car in alternate seasons. Which means the design foundations of the R24 were laid in 2002 immediately after Michelin introduced the tapered front tire.[*][b]BAR[/b] only received clearance to run Michelins in November, so the 006 was designed to run on the narrower (non-tapering) front tires of Bridgestones, which apparently are more compatible to the present non-tapering Michelins.[/list][list][b]Sept 14th - Italian GP @ Monza[/b][*]Michael wins![*]This is the first of [b]7 straight victories for Bridgestone runners[/b]![/list]
Thanks again, Stu!
Ken
| AndyRoo | 05-08-2004 09:27 PM |
interesting stuff OTG...thanks
edit: and stu
edit: and stu
| gtguy | 05-08-2004 09:59 PM |
Yep, the Speed Channel broadcast was interesting. The tire actually moved on the wheel! :eek: Pretty freaky, and certainly upsetting to young Mr. Button's pace. If that tire wasn't deflating, they are running scary low amounts of air pressure in the Michelin rubber.
How about Eddie Irvine telling Montoya to just ram Schumacher off the track? What an ass. He didn't have the stuff to close the deal when he had an opportunity to win the world championship, and now he, like so many other ex-drivers, is full of sour grapes. If Irvine had the talent of Schumacher, he'd be more than a never-was.
Montoya might well run Schumacher off the track, which will be about the only way he'll be able to keep up. :lol:
Kevin
How about Eddie Irvine telling Montoya to just ram Schumacher off the track? What an ass. He didn't have the stuff to close the deal when he had an opportunity to win the world championship, and now he, like so many other ex-drivers, is full of sour grapes. If Irvine had the talent of Schumacher, he'd be more than a never-was.
Montoya might well run Schumacher off the track, which will be about the only way he'll be able to keep up. :lol:
Kevin
| HoRo1 | 05-09-2004 11:51 AM |
YAWN. Season's over.
Will Schumacher set the record of 10 or more wins in a single season?
Will Schumacher set the record of 10 or more wins in a single season?
| cdvma | 05-09-2004 12:24 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by HoRo1[/i]
[B]Will Schumacher set the record of 10 or more wins in a single season? [/B][/QUOTE]
I dont know about 10, but I think he will definitely win in Monaco to set the new record; he is fast there.
[B]Will Schumacher set the record of 10 or more wins in a single season? [/B][/QUOTE]
I dont know about 10, but I think he will definitely win in Monaco to set the new record; he is fast there.
| Snowphun | 05-09-2004 01:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by HoRo1[/i]
[B] YAWN. Season's over.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Turning into a bit of a boring season...
[B] YAWN. Season's over.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Turning into a bit of a boring season...
| NC2.5RS | 05-09-2004 04:25 PM |
Well, it's boring if you're not a diehard Schumy or Ferrari fan. I am though, and am kinda loving seeing him race as well as he has. It's not his fault that McLaren and Williams have ****ty ****ty ****ty cars.
| Lafora | 05-09-2004 05:53 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by NC2.5RS [/i]
[B]Well, it's boring if you're not a diehard Schumy or Ferrari fan. I am though, and am kinda loving seeing him race as well as he has. It's not his fault that McLaren and Williams have ****ty ****ty ****ty cars. [/B][/QUOTE]
puzzles me too why ppl can't figure out it's williams and mclaren that are going backwards.
instead, they bash ferrari ad ms :rolleyes:
[B]Well, it's boring if you're not a diehard Schumy or Ferrari fan. I am though, and am kinda loving seeing him race as well as he has. It's not his fault that McLaren and Williams have ****ty ****ty ****ty cars. [/B][/QUOTE]
puzzles me too why ppl can't figure out it's williams and mclaren that are going backwards.
instead, they bash ferrari ad ms :rolleyes:
| FatChanceTi | 05-09-2004 05:58 PM |
Overheard in the Ferrari room pre-qualifying:
"Ok, we'll sand away part of a weld on Michael's exhaust, that should slow him down a little when it breaks free. And - let's run tons of fuel in Ruben's car as well, then maybe not have the front-left tire ready on his 2nd pitstop. That outta bring us down to the levels of the other teams"
"Ok, we'll sand away part of a weld on Michael's exhaust, that should slow him down a little when it breaks free. And - let's run tons of fuel in Ruben's car as well, then maybe not have the front-left tire ready on his 2nd pitstop. That outta bring us down to the levels of the other teams"
| cdvma | 05-09-2004 06:16 PM |
^^^ and the sad part is they still womped the field. Everyone also talks about Williams/Mclaren not having the car up to par, ever seen the Minardi? :eek: I'd be looking for a new job for next season if I were on that team.
| gtguy | 05-09-2004 07:22 PM |
Wow. And Trulli's start was amazing! But the press conference was funny, when Schumacher admitted that Trulli was holding them up a bit, yes. :lol: Briatore's rueful headshaking after the race told all, I think, which is that when it comes to race pace, nobody has what it takes to keep up with the Ferrari. Any team can go fast for a lap or two. But for lap after lap after lap? Only one team on the grid has that mojo right now.
What's worse is that the other teams are either going backward, or trading off the runner-up positions, so it just makes things even more lopsided. If there were still the 10-6... instead of 10-8 points system, the season would be all but over. But Barrichello, for example, is only two Schumacher DNFs and Barrichello race wins away from leading the drivers standings.
As I've said before, I love watching excellence, so this isn't boring at all for me. And to think how fast Barrichello was, qualifying fourth, with hard tires and a two-stop load of fuel.
We might never see the likes of this again. It's pretty awesome, IMHO.
Kevin
What's worse is that the other teams are either going backward, or trading off the runner-up positions, so it just makes things even more lopsided. If there were still the 10-6... instead of 10-8 points system, the season would be all but over. But Barrichello, for example, is only two Schumacher DNFs and Barrichello race wins away from leading the drivers standings.
As I've said before, I love watching excellence, so this isn't boring at all for me. And to think how fast Barrichello was, qualifying fourth, with hard tires and a two-stop load of fuel.
We might never see the likes of this again. It's pretty awesome, IMHO.
Kevin
| bemani | 05-10-2004 01:14 AM |
Now I want to see MS win every single race this year just for the heck of it :banana:
| FatChanceTi | 05-10-2004 07:12 AM |
A few random thoughts:
-Does anybody else think that the Ferrari dominance has had a secondary effect of reducing passing in the rest of the pack during recent races?
I kind of get the feeling that the rest of the field has given up a bit, and are just kind of going through the motions lap after lap (as much as this can be done when driving a medern F1 car). Look at the pace that both Sato and Button had during qualifying. I really expected them (well, Button mostly), given his pace before the qualifying mishap on Saturday, to charge up the field pretty boldy yesteday.
Yeah, the Jordans and Mindardis are still getting passed, but where is the competition among everybody else? Maybe the local directors are just not showing us any of this?
-Perhaps they should split the cars into two groups now, the Minardi, Jordan and McLaren teams can run a half-distance race to warm up the crowd.
How many more races will Zolt the Bolt run?
FCTi
-Does anybody else think that the Ferrari dominance has had a secondary effect of reducing passing in the rest of the pack during recent races?
I kind of get the feeling that the rest of the field has given up a bit, and are just kind of going through the motions lap after lap (as much as this can be done when driving a medern F1 car). Look at the pace that both Sato and Button had during qualifying. I really expected them (well, Button mostly), given his pace before the qualifying mishap on Saturday, to charge up the field pretty boldy yesteday.
Yeah, the Jordans and Mindardis are still getting passed, but where is the competition among everybody else? Maybe the local directors are just not showing us any of this?
-Perhaps they should split the cars into two groups now, the Minardi, Jordan and McLaren teams can run a half-distance race to warm up the crowd.
How many more races will Zolt the Bolt run?
FCTi
| gtguy | 05-10-2004 08:41 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by FatChanceTi [/i]
[B]A few random thoughts:
-Does anybody else think that the Ferrari dominance has had a secondary effect of reducing passing in the rest of the pack during recent races?
I kind of get the feeling that the rest of the field has given up a bit, and are just kind of going through the motions lap after lap (as much as this can be done when driving a medern F1 car). Look at the pace that both Sato and Button had during qualifying. I really expected them (well, Button mostly), given his pace before the qualifying mishap on Saturday, to charge up the field pretty boldy yesteday.
Yeah, the Jordans and Mindardis are still getting passed, but where is the competition among everybody else? Maybe the local directors are just not showing us any of this?
-Perhaps they should split the cars into two groups now, the Minardi, Jordan and McLaren teams can run a half-distance race to warm up the crowd.
How many more races will Zolt the Bolt run?
FCTi [/B][/QUOTE]
No, I think that places count for points, which count for travel money and other goodies. Nobody is going through the motions, it's just that for the most part, the teams are pretty closely matched, except for Ferrari.
BAR is very familiar with Barcelona, as are the rest of the teams, again except for Ferrari. They were setting all kinds of records there, and Sato set the track record in the final practice. But one lap (where the Michelins excel) is one thing, and race pace is another. Race pace is where the Ferraris are untouchable. Look at Trulli. He was flying, for Renault. Once Trulli pitted, Schumacher proceeded to go quite a bit faster.
The Spanish GP feed wasn't that good, either. We either saw a Renault or a Ferrari. The rest of the pack was pretty much ignored.
Kevin
[B]A few random thoughts:
-Does anybody else think that the Ferrari dominance has had a secondary effect of reducing passing in the rest of the pack during recent races?
I kind of get the feeling that the rest of the field has given up a bit, and are just kind of going through the motions lap after lap (as much as this can be done when driving a medern F1 car). Look at the pace that both Sato and Button had during qualifying. I really expected them (well, Button mostly), given his pace before the qualifying mishap on Saturday, to charge up the field pretty boldy yesteday.
Yeah, the Jordans and Mindardis are still getting passed, but where is the competition among everybody else? Maybe the local directors are just not showing us any of this?
-Perhaps they should split the cars into two groups now, the Minardi, Jordan and McLaren teams can run a half-distance race to warm up the crowd.
How many more races will Zolt the Bolt run?
FCTi [/B][/QUOTE]
No, I think that places count for points, which count for travel money and other goodies. Nobody is going through the motions, it's just that for the most part, the teams are pretty closely matched, except for Ferrari.
BAR is very familiar with Barcelona, as are the rest of the teams, again except for Ferrari. They were setting all kinds of records there, and Sato set the track record in the final practice. But one lap (where the Michelins excel) is one thing, and race pace is another. Race pace is where the Ferraris are untouchable. Look at Trulli. He was flying, for Renault. Once Trulli pitted, Schumacher proceeded to go quite a bit faster.
The Spanish GP feed wasn't that good, either. We either saw a Renault or a Ferrari. The rest of the pack was pretty much ignored.
Kevin
| ShockWave | 05-10-2004 11:07 AM |
[QUOTE]The Spanish GP feed wasn't that good, either. We either saw a Renault or a Ferrari.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes we didn't even see that. How many times did they cut to empty track for two seconds before cutting back to a car? Seemed a lot to me.
As for the competition. I was watching for overtaking and it was interesting to see some of the drivers trying. I was left thinking that there may be significant differences between the cars, but going into the turns, where they need to pull up on each other, they are identical in performance. I couldn't see anyway that someone could pull along side with enough control to follow it through and stay on the track.
I am looking forward to the changes.
Sometimes we didn't even see that. How many times did they cut to empty track for two seconds before cutting back to a car? Seemed a lot to me.
As for the competition. I was watching for overtaking and it was interesting to see some of the drivers trying. I was left thinking that there may be significant differences between the cars, but going into the turns, where they need to pull up on each other, they are identical in performance. I couldn't see anyway that someone could pull along side with enough control to follow it through and stay on the track.
I am looking forward to the changes.
| Dr. WOT | 05-10-2004 11:40 AM |
Ferrari/Schumacher/Bridgestone seem pretty unstoppable. I think the rules are contributing to this, particularly qualifying and starting on the same fuel load. The pattern emerging is even if someone can sneak out in front MS, he inevitably stops first, MS lays down a fast lap or two, and then gets ahead on the first pits stop, game over.
Without that stupid rule, teams would have a chance to use different strategies and perhaps manage to outfox Mr. Brawn. As it stands now, they have no chance because you need to qualify well to have a shot at it, and obviously nobody is beating MS on a similar fuel strategy.
Without that stupid rule, teams would have a chance to use different strategies and perhaps manage to outfox Mr. Brawn. As it stands now, they have no chance because you need to qualify well to have a shot at it, and obviously nobody is beating MS on a similar fuel strategy.
| gtguy | 05-10-2004 02:16 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dr. WOT [/i]
[B]Ferrari/Schumacher/Bridgestone seem pretty unstoppable. I think the rules are contributing to this, particularly qualifying and starting on the same fuel load. The pattern emerging is even if someone can sneak out in front MS, he inevitably stops first, MS lays down a fast lap or two, and then gets ahead on the first pits stop, game over.
Without that stupid rule, teams would have a chance to use different strategies and perhaps manage to outfox Mr. Brawn. As it stands now, they have no chance because you need to qualify well to have a shot at it, and obviously nobody is beating MS on a similar fuel strategy. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, strategy is changing because of the rules. Don't forget that the qualifying rules were changed in an effort to keep Schumacher in check, as with qualifying of the past, he would just keep going out, and going faster. What's funniest is that few people are better at going fast right out of the box than Schumacher. If the FIA had actually thought about it, they would have realized that single-lap qualifying plays right into his hands.
Michelin and Bridgestone, because of the 100 kph pit lane speed limit, are working with the teams to design tires that work for a three-stop strategy, a series of short sprints. Ferrari is doing it, but these days, everybody is pitting earlier than Ferrari, and I think that yesterday's race would have been even worse for the anti-Ferrari camp had there not been pit stops.
Ross Brawn is the best pit strategist in the paddock, and has been since the Benetton days. But the real reason MS/Ferrari are winning is because nobody has a car that is as good on race day, with a full load of fuel. That's a testimony to the excellence of the car and driver.
Certainly in the case of Button and Trulli, Schumacher was content to stay behind them until they pitted, because the team knew that they would, that those teams just aren't that fast on race pace unless they're running a little light. So yes, they go in to pit, Schumacher does one or two rapid laps, and it's game over. As Button said, "I pitted, then he pitted, and suddenly I was six seconds back. I don't know how that happened." It's the race pace of the Ferrari that makes it all possible.
I think that whatever rules there are, Ferrrari can design a car to take full advantage of them. The other thing to keep in mind is that Schumacher is an anomaly, and making rules to control an anomaly is silly, IMHO. Barrichello is more like Ferrari reality, as in how fast the car would be with a very talented driver behind the wheel, vs. a freak who is driving better than he ever has.
Kevin
[B]Ferrari/Schumacher/Bridgestone seem pretty unstoppable. I think the rules are contributing to this, particularly qualifying and starting on the same fuel load. The pattern emerging is even if someone can sneak out in front MS, he inevitably stops first, MS lays down a fast lap or two, and then gets ahead on the first pits stop, game over.
Without that stupid rule, teams would have a chance to use different strategies and perhaps manage to outfox Mr. Brawn. As it stands now, they have no chance because you need to qualify well to have a shot at it, and obviously nobody is beating MS on a similar fuel strategy. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, strategy is changing because of the rules. Don't forget that the qualifying rules were changed in an effort to keep Schumacher in check, as with qualifying of the past, he would just keep going out, and going faster. What's funniest is that few people are better at going fast right out of the box than Schumacher. If the FIA had actually thought about it, they would have realized that single-lap qualifying plays right into his hands.
Michelin and Bridgestone, because of the 100 kph pit lane speed limit, are working with the teams to design tires that work for a three-stop strategy, a series of short sprints. Ferrari is doing it, but these days, everybody is pitting earlier than Ferrari, and I think that yesterday's race would have been even worse for the anti-Ferrari camp had there not been pit stops.
Ross Brawn is the best pit strategist in the paddock, and has been since the Benetton days. But the real reason MS/Ferrari are winning is because nobody has a car that is as good on race day, with a full load of fuel. That's a testimony to the excellence of the car and driver.
Certainly in the case of Button and Trulli, Schumacher was content to stay behind them until they pitted, because the team knew that they would, that those teams just aren't that fast on race pace unless they're running a little light. So yes, they go in to pit, Schumacher does one or two rapid laps, and it's game over. As Button said, "I pitted, then he pitted, and suddenly I was six seconds back. I don't know how that happened." It's the race pace of the Ferrari that makes it all possible.
I think that whatever rules there are, Ferrrari can design a car to take full advantage of them. The other thing to keep in mind is that Schumacher is an anomaly, and making rules to control an anomaly is silly, IMHO. Barrichello is more like Ferrari reality, as in how fast the car would be with a very talented driver behind the wheel, vs. a freak who is driving better than he ever has.
Kevin
| cdvma | 05-10-2004 04:44 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gtguy [/i]
[B]The other thing to keep in mind is that Schumacher is an anomaly, and making rules to control an anomaly is silly, IMHO. Barrichello is more like Ferrari reality, as in how fast the car would be with a very talented driver behind the wheel, vs. a freak who is driving better than he ever has.[/B][/QUOTE]
I agree completely. People tell me its the car thats winning, but then I mention Barrichello and say forget MS. That picture is completely different and people wouldn't be up in arms at Ferrari's dominance. Well said.
[B]The other thing to keep in mind is that Schumacher is an anomaly, and making rules to control an anomaly is silly, IMHO. Barrichello is more like Ferrari reality, as in how fast the car would be with a very talented driver behind the wheel, vs. a freak who is driving better than he ever has.[/B][/QUOTE]
I agree completely. People tell me its the car thats winning, but then I mention Barrichello and say forget MS. That picture is completely different and people wouldn't be up in arms at Ferrari's dominance. Well said.
| wistful | 05-10-2004 04:53 PM |
anomaly? Kinda lik NEO. hmmmm.... :D
Don
p.s. more power to Schumacher. I hope he wins EVERY race this season. That'd be frickin bad-arse to see.
Don
p.s. more power to Schumacher. I hope he wins EVERY race this season. That'd be frickin bad-arse to see.
| Leonardo | 05-10-2004 11:37 PM |
Since last season and the one before I have prayed for his engine blowing, or the trany locking up, or the collant leak, SOMETHING
THAT is when you know the car is good!
And yes, MS is an anomaly!
If season were more competitive, I would fly to Indy this year, but for what? To see a team dominate that much?
THAT is when you know the car is good!
And yes, MS is an anomaly!
If season were more competitive, I would fly to Indy this year, but for what? To see a team dominate that much?
| Snowphun | 05-10-2004 11:52 PM |
I agree. MS is amazing, and I give him and Ferrari full credit, but it's still a buzz kill to watch. I much more enjoy finding out who will be second, and waiting for Kimi to get a car that works. :lol:
| Dr. WOT | 05-11-2004 09:52 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Leonardo [/i]
[B]Since last season and the one before I have prayed for his engine blowing, or the trany locking up, or the collant leak, SOMETHING
THAT is when you know the car is good!
And yes, MS is an anomaly!
If season were more competitive, I would fly to Indy this year, but for what? To see a team dominate that much? [/B][/QUOTE]
Apparently your prayers have fallen on deaf ears.... :D
Go to Indy and see history in the making. Kevin has been making this point all along... you will be able to tell your grandkids you saw Schumacher in his prime.
[B]Since last season and the one before I have prayed for his engine blowing, or the trany locking up, or the collant leak, SOMETHING
THAT is when you know the car is good!
And yes, MS is an anomaly!
If season were more competitive, I would fly to Indy this year, but for what? To see a team dominate that much? [/B][/QUOTE]
Apparently your prayers have fallen on deaf ears.... :D
Go to Indy and see history in the making. Kevin has been making this point all along... you will be able to tell your grandkids you saw Schumacher in his prime.
| grandpa rex | 05-11-2004 11:16 AM |
This about sums it up:
[QUOTE]a freak who is driving better than he ever has.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]a freak who is driving better than he ever has.[/QUOTE]
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