| cgroppi | 01-04-2005 07:34 PM |
Opinions on basic STU starter setup
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Now that AS has been totally shaken up, I've decided to put my 04 STi into STU for this next year. It is not my intent to be nationally competitive, but to do a few things to make the car faster while still keeping it civil on the street. I also don't want to spend a ton of cash. Because of this, I don't want coilovers. I can't afford it, and even if I could, I would be unwilling to live with the 10,000 kg/m or higher spring rates that Tom Hoppe and others are using. So far, I'm considering doing the following, probably in 3 steps:
1: PDE Camber plates and STi pink springs (the JDM ones).
2. Whiteline adjustable front and rear swaybars (22mm) with heavy duty rear mount and front and rear heavy duty endlinks.
3. APS turboback exhaust and dyno tuned EkuTek (Dynocomp's stage 1 kit, my "local" AWD dyno shop/tuner). I *think* everything Dynocomp does as part of this kit is STU legal, but I would of course make sure before I did it.
I plan on doing 1 and 2 as soon as I can. 3 would be nice, but the basic suspension work should be first.
Any opinions? Some people seem to not like adjustable front swaybars. any reasons? How about swaybar bias? I was thinking of running the front bar set to soft and the rear bar set to hard (i.e. 21mm in front, 24mm rear). I currently use Kumho MX 235-45s on the stock wheels. Given my cheapness, I can't see buying a new set of wheels just for autocross anytime soon, unless people think that going to 245-45s on 8.5" or 9" wheels would yield a greater benefit than the above mods.
Oh, and I already did the Stage 1 Evolution school in October, and plan to do stage 2 this next fall, so I am working on the part that goes inside the helmet too :)
1: PDE Camber plates and STi pink springs (the JDM ones).
2. Whiteline adjustable front and rear swaybars (22mm) with heavy duty rear mount and front and rear heavy duty endlinks.
3. APS turboback exhaust and dyno tuned EkuTek (Dynocomp's stage 1 kit, my "local" AWD dyno shop/tuner). I *think* everything Dynocomp does as part of this kit is STU legal, but I would of course make sure before I did it.
I plan on doing 1 and 2 as soon as I can. 3 would be nice, but the basic suspension work should be first.
Any opinions? Some people seem to not like adjustable front swaybars. any reasons? How about swaybar bias? I was thinking of running the front bar set to soft and the rear bar set to hard (i.e. 21mm in front, 24mm rear). I currently use Kumho MX 235-45s on the stock wheels. Given my cheapness, I can't see buying a new set of wheels just for autocross anytime soon, unless people think that going to 245-45s on 8.5" or 9" wheels would yield a greater benefit than the above mods.
Oh, and I already did the Stage 1 Evolution school in October, and plan to do stage 2 this next fall, so I am working on the part that goes inside the helmet too :)
| FSelekler | 01-04-2005 09:51 PM |
If no coilovers, I'd pick the H&R springs over piks and Cobb bars over Whiteline.
| Fred | 01-04-2005 10:16 PM |
because... ?
| gregr01 | 01-04-2005 10:31 PM |
Are you going to run any of the Phoenix events? If so, I'll play in STU, too (I don't want to be the only one running in it, though!).
I think you're going to rub with springs and 235/45s, I do with 225/45s on my 17x8.5 +48 wheels with Eibach springs, though only during track days and not autox, and then only on the front inner-fender liner--I've rolled my rear fenders. With 245/45s it'd be worse. I didn't rub at Pinal since I was trashing my OEM tires on the stock wheels.
I don't see many people running in STU in the Border Region, and with the more favorable PAX you'll probably be on top regardless of what you do to your car. Save your dollars for travel expenses to Phoenix!
If you've got to spend $ on something, get the rear sway bar plus links & mounts, then camber plates (PDE seem the way to go), then front bar. A few extra HP isn't going to make a tremendous difference, though it's always nice. ;)
I have Whiteline F 22mm sway bar w/ stock end links, Whiteline R 20-24mm adjustable sway bar w/ Perrin end links (set to "24mm") and Whiteline HD rear sway bar brackets/bushings.
I think you're going to rub with springs and 235/45s, I do with 225/45s on my 17x8.5 +48 wheels with Eibach springs, though only during track days and not autox, and then only on the front inner-fender liner--I've rolled my rear fenders. With 245/45s it'd be worse. I didn't rub at Pinal since I was trashing my OEM tires on the stock wheels.
I don't see many people running in STU in the Border Region, and with the more favorable PAX you'll probably be on top regardless of what you do to your car. Save your dollars for travel expenses to Phoenix!
If you've got to spend $ on something, get the rear sway bar plus links & mounts, then camber plates (PDE seem the way to go), then front bar. A few extra HP isn't going to make a tremendous difference, though it's always nice. ;)
I have Whiteline F 22mm sway bar w/ stock end links, Whiteline R 20-24mm adjustable sway bar w/ Perrin end links (set to "24mm") and Whiteline HD rear sway bar brackets/bushings.
| FSelekler | 01-04-2005 10:49 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred]because... ?[/QUOTE]
The H&R springs lower the STi nearly to the ideal ride height and are stiffer in rate, but still within shocks' limits. The Cobb/Hotchkis bars: they save couple of pounds of weight :)
The H&R springs lower the STi nearly to the ideal ride height and are stiffer in rate, but still within shocks' limits. The Cobb/Hotchkis bars: they save couple of pounds of weight :)
| ChrisL2 | 01-04-2005 11:01 PM |
Maybe I'll continue to run in STU then, even though my STi is still stock.
| cgroppi | 01-04-2005 11:46 PM |
I've thought about coming up for some Phoenix events, but it's a long haul from central Tucson up to PIR (like almost 3 hours). I'll be at the Pinal events for sure. No need to do anything to the car for them. Really there's no need to do anything ever. I just want to. ;)
The camber plates and bars seem like a no-brainer to me. More camber, and keeping what you get will not only improve handling but increase tire life. The springs are another question. Those who have put lowering springs that are well matched to the STI struts seem to like them. The JDM pinks especially seem to have quite a following. How about the rubbing issue for those who have tried 235-45s on the stock wheels with pink (or H&R) springs? The power mods are pie-in-the sky right now, and I might never do them. I think I'm fairly set on doing camber plates and bars, though.
The camber plates and bars seem like a no-brainer to me. More camber, and keeping what you get will not only improve handling but increase tire life. The springs are another question. Those who have put lowering springs that are well matched to the STI struts seem to like them. The JDM pinks especially seem to have quite a following. How about the rubbing issue for those who have tried 235-45s on the stock wheels with pink (or H&R) springs? The power mods are pie-in-the sky right now, and I might never do them. I think I'm fairly set on doing camber plates and bars, though.
| makofoto | 01-05-2005 12:07 AM |
One of our TeamBlew members is going to be running STU ... with JDM Pinks, Cusco sway bars, Tein camber plates, APS Turbo back and 245/45/17 Azenis. Mild rubbing of the fender liner in front. He's terrifically fast with this set-up.
We were doing an Evo2 school in December. After school we joined the rest of the CSCC drivers in fun runs ... in pouring rain, on a copy of last years North National Course. He set fast time over a number of top National drivers. Beat the 2 Evo instructors, who drove his car ... byalmost 2 seconds! He likes to run with his spare tire and a full tank of fuel.
At the JGTC AX, he was 2nd fastest on both days, against a number of cars that had R compounds. His girl rode with him on every lap. And his car rides nicer then stock! 1st place was an ESP EVO with 275 Kuhmo 710's.
[IMG]http://images7.fotki.com/v133/photos/4/43793/1630552/MarkSlalom-vi.jpg[/IMG]
We were doing an Evo2 school in December. After school we joined the rest of the CSCC drivers in fun runs ... in pouring rain, on a copy of last years North National Course. He set fast time over a number of top National drivers. Beat the 2 Evo instructors, who drove his car ... byalmost 2 seconds! He likes to run with his spare tire and a full tank of fuel.
At the JGTC AX, he was 2nd fastest on both days, against a number of cars that had R compounds. His girl rode with him on every lap. And his car rides nicer then stock! 1st place was an ESP EVO with 275 Kuhmo 710's.
[IMG]http://images7.fotki.com/v133/photos/4/43793/1630552/MarkSlalom-vi.jpg[/IMG]
| makofoto | 01-05-2005 06:00 AM |
[IMG]http://images8.fotki.com/v139/photos/4/43793/1638371/Rocky2-vi.jpg[/IMG]
Another TeamBlew member is running 245/40/17 KD's without problems .. using Zeal coilovers ... not sure about the rest of his STU mods.
I think Rocky was 10th out of 83 in Sundays JGTC AX - first time out with his Zeals.
Another TeamBlew member is running 245/40/17 KD's without problems .. using Zeal coilovers ... not sure about the rest of his STU mods.
I think Rocky was 10th out of 83 in Sundays JGTC AX - first time out with his Zeals.
| KC | 01-05-2005 07:32 AM |
Are there larger bars for the STi? (F/R) I would look on going to larger front/rear bars if you're going to stay with 'stockish' springs/struts.
| Corey | 01-05-2005 07:56 AM |
Somebody *cough* [silver STi] *cough* got behind in the slolom... ;)
Corey #89 STS
Corey #89 STS
| Fred | 01-05-2005 08:22 AM |
[QUOTE]The H&R springs lower the STi nearly to the ideal ride height and are stiffer in rate, but still within shocks' limits. The Cobb/Hotchkis bars: they save couple of pounds of weight [/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
| omahasubaru | 01-05-2005 09:10 AM |
You can get coilovers with softer rates that would be comfortable yet still have the adjustability and tire clearance that come with them.
Why even going to STU and half-arse it? What's wrong with AS if you've been there now? Especially if you don't care about being nationally competitive.
Are your local events on concrete or asphalt?
Why even going to STU and half-arse it? What's wrong with AS if you've been there now? Especially if you don't care about being nationally competitive.
Are your local events on concrete or asphalt?
| makofoto | 01-05-2005 01:37 PM |
Do you guys have a SK1 class? I guess that is just a regional class?
Basically our SK classes are for Stock Class cars ... but run with street tires:
>>>1) SK1 consists of SS, AS, BS and FS. 2) SK2 consists of CS, DS, ES, GS and HS.<<<
Basically our SK classes are for Stock Class cars ... but run with street tires:
>>>1) SK1 consists of SS, AS, BS and FS. 2) SK2 consists of CS, DS, ES, GS and HS.<<<
| dave bruener | 01-05-2005 06:05 PM |
Isn't STU limited to 8" wide wheels and 245 tires for AWD? I thought STU was the same as STX in regard to wheel and tire sizes...
| afpdl | 01-05-2005 06:39 PM |
There are no wheel limits for STU only tire limits.
| ChrisL2 | 01-05-2005 07:44 PM |
Local events on sand and gravel covered asphalt :)
| makofoto | 01-05-2005 08:14 PM |
STU is going to be interesting ... I hope. M3's with 275 tires, 2,700 lbs, 50/50 weight distribution ... :-(
What can one do to lighten a STI?
lite weight sport seats could save 80 lbs ... light weight battery saves 20 lbs ... what other practical weight savings ?
What can one do to lighten a STI?
lite weight sport seats could save 80 lbs ... light weight battery saves 20 lbs ... what other practical weight savings ?
| afpdl | 01-05-2005 08:22 PM |
suspension, wheels, good bit in the exhaust and pull the ac couple of other little things. It just depends if awd and more power gives enough of an advantage on street tires, if the evos and stis end up getting consistantly whooped by cars with 275s Im sure they will raise the limit for awd cars. What are the m3s going to be doing in ST trim to drop 400lbs? They weigh almost as much as STis stock.
| makofoto | 01-05-2005 08:40 PM |
Even Bob Tunnell says the LAST thing you want to do is pull the AC! A cool head is worth a lot .... :-)
Lightweight hollow Hotchkis sway bars ... SSR's or Rota Slipstreams ... I believe the new Falken 615's are suppose to be lighter then the Azenis's ..
I thought the M3's were lighter ... sorry ...
Lightweight hollow Hotchkis sway bars ... SSR's or Rota Slipstreams ... I believe the new Falken 615's are suppose to be lighter then the Azenis's ..
I thought the M3's were lighter ... sorry ...
| afpdl | 01-05-2005 08:45 PM |
They are 3175lbs as far as I can tell, they can get down in the 2700lbs but I dont see how they could within the ST rule set. There advertized 50:50 weight distribution also has a little to do with throwing alot of heavy stuff in the trunk ;) they certainly have a better distribution then 60:40 though.
And from what subydude has said the slipstreams arent any lighter then the torques which are around 19lbs. I think the only wheels that will drop significant weight are ssr comps, ssr type cs, and one of the enkies are a couple of lbs lighter then stock.
And from what subydude has said the slipstreams arent any lighter then the torques which are around 19lbs. I think the only wheels that will drop significant weight are ssr comps, ssr type cs, and one of the enkies are a couple of lbs lighter then stock.
| dwx | 01-05-2005 08:48 PM |
Bob pulled his AC two years ago...
The most well prepped SM M3s are around 2700 lbs and that's with the ability to update/backdate to all the M3 lightweight crap like doors and whatnot, which you can't do in STU. That's how they get down to that kind of weight... Stock '95 M3 is around 3100 lbs, but they have very heavy seats, so you can probably get one down to 2850 lbs or so.
The most well prepped SM M3s are around 2700 lbs and that's with the ability to update/backdate to all the M3 lightweight crap like doors and whatnot, which you can't do in STU. That's how they get down to that kind of weight... Stock '95 M3 is around 3100 lbs, but they have very heavy seats, so you can probably get one down to 2850 lbs or so.
| thefly | 01-06-2005 09:33 AM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]There are no wheel limits for STU only tire limits.[/QUOTE]
i thought it is limited to 8" of wheel like STX. i know the rules on nasioc say anyone have scca info saying otherwise?
i thought it is limited to 8" of wheel like STX. i know the rules on nasioc say anyone have scca info saying otherwise?
| KC | 01-06-2005 09:46 AM |
[QUOTE=thefly]i thought it is limited to 8" of wheel like STX. i know the rules on nasioc say anyone have scca info saying otherwise?[/QUOTE]
There is no wheel width limit in STU. The STU/STS2 rules were erroneously omitted from the On-Line rule book.
The rule 1st appeared in the April '04 Fastrack which can be D/L from the SCCA website and is still the legal classing definition.
[QUOTE]To accomodate the greater power of these vehicles, restrictions on wheel width are lifted and the maximum tire width will be...[/QUOTE]
There is no wheel width limit in STU. The STU/STS2 rules were erroneously omitted from the On-Line rule book.
The rule 1st appeared in the April '04 Fastrack which can be D/L from the SCCA website and is still the legal classing definition.
[QUOTE]To accomodate the greater power of these vehicles, restrictions on wheel width are lifted and the maximum tire width will be...[/QUOTE]
| DrBiggly | 01-06-2005 11:12 AM |
Unless you're serious about National-level style stuff, then something simple would be all you need. Here is what I'd recommend based on a low-budget setup, but is still wonderfully comfortable:
1) The JDM Pink springs. They make the car ride smoother than stock as they're a better match for the strut than the stock springs. Lowers it by the tiniest of margins and ups the springrate a little so it doesn't exascerbate the inherent camber curve issues of the car.
2) Front and rear swaybars. The bigger the better for the front; go with a 24mm or larger (Whiteline are the only folks that make really big front bars) and maybe a 22-24mm in the rear.
3) Camber: Here is where I'd say things get optional based on your budget and preference. Either buy some bolts, or some camber plates to achieve this. I'd go with at least -1.5 camber (all the time, yes, and no it won't kill your tires, that's what incorrect toe does) and 0 toe in the front and rear both. The back you can just leave it alone and not worry about it.
Do the rest of your tuning with tire pressures and voila! You have a simpler, better riding system than a lot of the coilover fanboys who throw on coilovers to justify going to an autox a couple of times per year. This will still be quite fast and will offer both the most bang for the buck, along with a ton of fun.
That's the recommendations for suspension, for power it's pretty limited so the typical turbo-back of your choice that fits the rules, etc will round you out. :)
edit: I see above that someone else uses this setup and is really fast on it. I skipped over most of this thread when I posted...made these recommendations based on experience. Looks like I'm right again. :banana: :D
1) The JDM Pink springs. They make the car ride smoother than stock as they're a better match for the strut than the stock springs. Lowers it by the tiniest of margins and ups the springrate a little so it doesn't exascerbate the inherent camber curve issues of the car.
2) Front and rear swaybars. The bigger the better for the front; go with a 24mm or larger (Whiteline are the only folks that make really big front bars) and maybe a 22-24mm in the rear.
3) Camber: Here is where I'd say things get optional based on your budget and preference. Either buy some bolts, or some camber plates to achieve this. I'd go with at least -1.5 camber (all the time, yes, and no it won't kill your tires, that's what incorrect toe does) and 0 toe in the front and rear both. The back you can just leave it alone and not worry about it.
Do the rest of your tuning with tire pressures and voila! You have a simpler, better riding system than a lot of the coilover fanboys who throw on coilovers to justify going to an autox a couple of times per year. This will still be quite fast and will offer both the most bang for the buck, along with a ton of fun.
That's the recommendations for suspension, for power it's pretty limited so the typical turbo-back of your choice that fits the rules, etc will round you out. :)
edit: I see above that someone else uses this setup and is really fast on it. I skipped over most of this thread when I posted...made these recommendations based on experience. Looks like I'm right again. :banana: :D
| WRXIN | 01-06-2005 11:51 AM |
[QUOTE=Corey]Somebody *cough* [silver STi] *cough* got behind in the slolom... ;)
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
Yea, yea, that's me getting behind in the slalom. :D Probably not my best lap time.
To be a little more specific to Mako's description of my suspension setup:
Cusco 22mm front swaybar with Poltec endlinks
Cusco adjustable rear swaybar (set to the middle setting) with Perrin endlinks
JDM STi Pink Springs (spring rates of 252F 217R)
Tein camber plates up front
Front alignment while autocrossing: -3.7 camber and 3/16ths total toe out.
Front alignment on the street: -2.5 camber and toe changes to 1/16th total toe in.
The Tein camber plates were about $200(?) and came with specially machined strut top bolts for the stock struts. Well worth the money for the resulting adjustability.
Overall, I�m very happy with the setup. Best ~$1000 I ever spent.
I run with 245/45-17 Azenis (because they don�t offer a better profile size with 245s�). With my stock suspension, I rubbed in the plastic inner fender lining. But now with the new suspension, no more rubbing. I never rubbed the outer fender lip, so no fender rolling is necessary, with the stock rims at least.
-Mark
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
Yea, yea, that's me getting behind in the slalom. :D Probably not my best lap time.
To be a little more specific to Mako's description of my suspension setup:
Cusco 22mm front swaybar with Poltec endlinks
Cusco adjustable rear swaybar (set to the middle setting) with Perrin endlinks
JDM STi Pink Springs (spring rates of 252F 217R)
Tein camber plates up front
Front alignment while autocrossing: -3.7 camber and 3/16ths total toe out.
Front alignment on the street: -2.5 camber and toe changes to 1/16th total toe in.
The Tein camber plates were about $200(?) and came with specially machined strut top bolts for the stock struts. Well worth the money for the resulting adjustability.
Overall, I�m very happy with the setup. Best ~$1000 I ever spent.
I run with 245/45-17 Azenis (because they don�t offer a better profile size with 245s�). With my stock suspension, I rubbed in the plastic inner fender lining. But now with the new suspension, no more rubbing. I never rubbed the outer fender lip, so no fender rolling is necessary, with the stock rims at least.
-Mark
| KC | 01-06-2005 11:59 AM |
[QUOTE=WRXIN]I run with 245/45-17 Azenis (because they don�t offer a better profile size with 245s�). [/QUOTE]
That's not a bad thing for an STi. An STi has the power to get out of the hole with the little additional weight/diameter... and you gain a few more MPH/PRMs in the top of 2nd (for tighter areas).
--kC
That's not a bad thing for an STi. An STi has the power to get out of the hole with the little additional weight/diameter... and you gain a few more MPH/PRMs in the top of 2nd (for tighter areas).
--kC
| subieworx | 01-06-2005 01:29 PM |
Why not run a set of Ground Controls on the V8 struts? You could do somewhere around 300lb/in springs which would work better than the pinks, don't cost much more, give adjustability, and still be a nice street setup.
| Grintch | 01-06-2005 04:02 PM |
I would be highly suspicious of the engine reflash/tune being legal. The easiest way to make more power with a turbo car is to turn up the boost, which is illegal for ST (and SP). And I wouldn't pay for someone to do a "no boost" tune, the Cobb AP might work if anyone ever comes out with a STU legal (no boost increase) map. Then you can load the "good" map for normal use, and switch to the STU legal map when needed.
I would recommend going to 245/40 Kumbo MX's or 245/45 Azenis. Tires are probably the biggest performance change you can make in AutoX (where power isn't a big factor). The Azenis run a little cheaper (at least for the 1st Gen design) and the taller tire will help reduce the shifting, the shorter MX's have slightly better torque multiplication (shorter tires = shorter gearing); which is better will be course dependant.
I would recommend going to 245/40 Kumbo MX's or 245/45 Azenis. Tires are probably the biggest performance change you can make in AutoX (where power isn't a big factor). The Azenis run a little cheaper (at least for the 1st Gen design) and the taller tire will help reduce the shifting, the shorter MX's have slightly better torque multiplication (shorter tires = shorter gearing); which is better will be course dependant.
| subieworx | 01-06-2005 04:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Grintch]I would be highly suspicious of the engine reflash/tune being legal. The easiest way to make more power with a turbo car is to turn up the boost, which is illegal for ST (and SP). And I wouldn't pay for someone to do a "no boost" tune, the Cobb AP might work if anyone ever comes out with a STU legal (no boost increase) map. Then you can load the "good" map for normal use, and switch to the STU legal map when needed.
I would recommend going to 245/40 Kumbo MX's or 245/45 Azenis. Tires are probably the biggest performance change you can make in AutoX (where power isn't a big factor). The Azenis run a little cheaper (at least for the 1st Gen design) and the taller tire will help reduce the shifting, the shorter MX's have slightly better torque multiplication (shorter tires = shorter gearing); which is better will be course dependant.[/QUOTE]
There are also new size offering for the ST615 which may be advantageous. Plus in my experinece with the STI taller tires would only help course times as one would be off the rev limiter and out of third gear more.
I would recommend going to 245/40 Kumbo MX's or 245/45 Azenis. Tires are probably the biggest performance change you can make in AutoX (where power isn't a big factor). The Azenis run a little cheaper (at least for the 1st Gen design) and the taller tire will help reduce the shifting, the shorter MX's have slightly better torque multiplication (shorter tires = shorter gearing); which is better will be course dependant.[/QUOTE]
There are also new size offering for the ST615 which may be advantageous. Plus in my experinece with the STI taller tires would only help course times as one would be off the rev limiter and out of third gear more.
| afpdl | 01-06-2005 04:14 PM |
[QUOTE=Grintch] And I wouldn't pay for someone to do a "no boost" tune, [/QUOTE]
Thats fine but there are pleanty of other people that would and have paid someone to do a no boost reflash.
Thats fine but there are pleanty of other people that would and have paid someone to do a no boost reflash.
| DrBiggly | 01-06-2005 04:14 PM |
[QUOTE=subieworx]Why not run a set of Ground Controls on the V8 struts? You could do somewhere around 300lb/in springs which would work better than the pinks, don't cost much more, give adjustability, and still be a nice street setup.[/QUOTE]
Depends on what you mean by better. Sure, one has more adjustability but it comes at a cost. The fitment isn't so fantastic and you have to zip tie the spring to the top perch so that it won't come down wrong as under full droop, the spring isn't anywhere near covering the distance. They are more work and more maintenance for what I would consider to be a marginal improvement in time on an autox course; easily made up for by a better driver.
GCs: $399
Pinks: $399
I still vote for the Pinks. Good idea on the ground controls, but unless someone really likes to tinker with the car and thinks that the extra hassle is worth it, I'd recommend against it. :)
Depends on what you mean by better. Sure, one has more adjustability but it comes at a cost. The fitment isn't so fantastic and you have to zip tie the spring to the top perch so that it won't come down wrong as under full droop, the spring isn't anywhere near covering the distance. They are more work and more maintenance for what I would consider to be a marginal improvement in time on an autox course; easily made up for by a better driver.
GCs: $399
Pinks: $399
I still vote for the Pinks. Good idea on the ground controls, but unless someone really likes to tinker with the car and thinks that the extra hassle is worth it, I'd recommend against it. :)
| subieworx | 01-06-2005 04:22 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Depends on what you mean by better. Sure, one has more adjustability but it comes at a cost. The fitment isn't so fantastic and you have to zip tie the spring to the top perch so that it won't come down wrong as under full droop, the spring isn't anywhere near covering the distance. They are more work and more maintenance for what I would consider to be a marginal improvement in time on an autox course; easily made up for by a better driver.
GCs: $399
Pinks: $399
I still vote for the Pinks. Good idea on the ground controls, but unless someone really likes to tinker with the car and thinks that the extra hassle is worth it, I'd recommend against it. :)[/QUOTE]
What's this with zip ties? I have GC/Konis and have not zip tied them. Am I missing something? Is that what those holes in the top spring perch are for?
GCs: $399
Pinks: $399
I still vote for the Pinks. Good idea on the ground controls, but unless someone really likes to tinker with the car and thinks that the extra hassle is worth it, I'd recommend against it. :)[/QUOTE]
What's this with zip ties? I have GC/Konis and have not zip tied them. Am I missing something? Is that what those holes in the top spring perch are for?
| DrBiggly | 01-06-2005 04:42 PM |
The zip ties were Hoppe's fix; I'm not sure if that's exactly what they are there for, but apparently it worked pretty well.
Apparently the perches on the STi for those GCs are quite finicky and don't line up right if you just lower the car down onto it without some sort of guide. So he ziptied it to the top and let the bottom just slide down on the collar.
I had another friend who got them for his STi, but saw how it worked and said "I'm not putting such a ****ty design on my car" and promptly sent them back.
Apparently the perches on the STi for those GCs are quite finicky and don't line up right if you just lower the car down onto it without some sort of guide. So he ziptied it to the top and let the bottom just slide down on the collar.
I had another friend who got them for his STi, but saw how it worked and said "I'm not putting such a ****ty design on my car" and promptly sent them back.
| subieworx | 01-06-2005 04:51 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]The zip ties were Hoppe's fix; I'm not sure if that's exactly what they are there for, but apparently it worked pretty well.
Apparently the perches on the STi for those GCs are quite finicky and don't line up right if you just lower the car down onto it without some sort of guide. So he ziptied it to the top and let the bottom just slide down on the collar.
I had another friend who got them for his STi, but saw how it worked and said "I'm not putting such a ****ty design on my car" and promptly sent them back.[/QUOTE]
I guess if one did not cut the lower perch off the strut it would cause some problems like that. Mine are cut off on my struts and sit correctly.
Apparently the perches on the STi for those GCs are quite finicky and don't line up right if you just lower the car down onto it without some sort of guide. So he ziptied it to the top and let the bottom just slide down on the collar.
I had another friend who got them for his STi, but saw how it worked and said "I'm not putting such a ****ty design on my car" and promptly sent them back.[/QUOTE]
I guess if one did not cut the lower perch off the strut it would cause some problems like that. Mine are cut off on my struts and sit correctly.
| dwx | 01-06-2005 04:52 PM |
The upper spring perches that GC gives you for their plates have holes in them to ziptie them to the top of the spring.
| DrBiggly | 01-06-2005 05:02 PM |
[QUOTE=subieworx]I guess if one did not cut the lower perch off the strut it would cause some problems like that. Mine are cut off on my struts and sit correctly.[/QUOTE]
Nothing wrong with the lower perch. It's lining up the upper perch that doesn't quite work right when one lowers the car down from jackstands, or what have you. Once the springs get fully unloaded, they don't seat correctly on the top perch and the weight distribution isn't correct; so instead of it being plumb (by reference of the strut) it is leaning. (i.e. improperly seated.)
P.S. Thanks for chiming in Phil. :)
Nothing wrong with the lower perch. It's lining up the upper perch that doesn't quite work right when one lowers the car down from jackstands, or what have you. Once the springs get fully unloaded, they don't seat correctly on the top perch and the weight distribution isn't correct; so instead of it being plumb (by reference of the strut) it is leaning. (i.e. improperly seated.)
P.S. Thanks for chiming in Phil. :)
| subieworx | 01-07-2005 08:55 AM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Nothing wrong with the lower perch. It's lining up the upper perch that doesn't quite work right when one lowers the car down from jackstands, or what have you. Once the springs get fully unloaded, they don't seat correctly on the top perch and the weight distribution isn't correct; so instead of it being plumb (by reference of the strut) it is leaning. (i.e. improperly seated.)
P.S. Thanks for chiming in Phil. :)[/QUOTE]
But it would seem to me that the lower perch and its design for the stock spring (not level all around strut) would cause this. The top should mount up the same way it does to other strut tops useing GC's.
P.S. Thanks for chiming in Phil. :)[/QUOTE]
But it would seem to me that the lower perch and its design for the stock spring (not level all around strut) would cause this. The top should mount up the same way it does to other strut tops useing GC's.
| dwx | 01-07-2005 11:13 AM |
I think what Biggly is talking about are the GC camber plates more than the GC coilover kit. Those come with a new upper spring perch that uses a tor-something bearing in it that is not flat and does not sit inside some other part of the upper mount when under load. It seats via a curved shape like this \______/ onto a matching part on the mount. When you raise the car there is no pre-load on the spring, so that bearing seperates itself. You ziptie the top perch to the spring to keep it relatively centered so when the car is lowered back down that bearing seats itself again. However the spring can move around since there is no preload and the bearing can become misaligned. I never really had too many problems with it, and I changed tires every event. Just clean off all those surfaces any time you can because stuff will start making noise if you don't.
| subieworx | 01-07-2005 12:14 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx]I think what Biggly is talking about are the GC camber plates more than the GC coilover kit. Those come with a new upper spring perch that uses a tor-something bearing in it that is not flat and does not sit inside some other part of the upper mount when under load. It seats via a curved shape like this \______/ onto a matching part on the mount. When you raise the car there is no pre-load on the spring, so that bearing seperates itself. You ziptie the top perch to the spring to keep it relatively centered so when the car is lowered back down that bearing seats itself again. However the spring can move around since there is no preload and the bearing can become misaligned. I never really had too many problems with it, and I changed tires every event. Just clean off all those surfaces any time you can because stuff will start making noise if you don't.[/QUOTE]
I see now. Thanks for the explanation.
I see now. Thanks for the explanation.
| DougM | 01-07-2005 03:31 PM |
my list (based on you saying you don't want coilovers); springs, front camber plates, adjustable rear a/r bar, wider tires, 3 point harness and a good alignment
extras might include, front a/r bar and front/rear strut tower bars.
you'd be better off saving the power upgrade monies for better/more suspension mods (coilovers). then down the road after you've recovered from your initial spending spree you can look into power upgrades. just a thought, that's what i'm doing anyways.
extras might include, front a/r bar and front/rear strut tower bars.
you'd be better off saving the power upgrade monies for better/more suspension mods (coilovers). then down the road after you've recovered from your initial spending spree you can look into power upgrades. just a thought, that's what i'm doing anyways.
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