| javid | 07-19-2005 04:04 PM |
Pile Up at Road America
�
�
A friend forwarded these and I thought I would share the carnage of some beautiful historic race cars. This was at the Brian Redman Challenge at Road America, last Sunday, July 17th, 2005.
[URL=http://www.pbase.com/atrltd/image/46317471]Ouch[/URL]
Javid
[URL=http://www.pbase.com/atrltd/image/46317471]Ouch[/URL]
Javid
| WRXedUSA | 07-19-2005 04:14 PM |
*sound of change dropping on a concrete floor*
| MBDarkwinter | 07-19-2005 04:26 PM |
...wow ouch
| bigcale | 07-19-2005 04:36 PM |
damn (tear) that just sucks
| dwx | 07-19-2005 05:00 PM |
Yep, I guess there were 17 cars involved. No serious injuries although some went to the hospital. Apparently that particular group of racers is very aggressive and there were a couple of things that caused the initial crash and subsequent accordian of cars.
| RB5 Clone | 07-19-2005 05:05 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx] Apparently that particular group of racers is very aggressive
[/QUOTE]
guess ya can't accuse these guys of driving "babied trailer queens"
sad to see sweet old cars get bent, but i bet it was NOT boring to watch!
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
[/QUOTE]
guess ya can't accuse these guys of driving "babied trailer queens"
sad to see sweet old cars get bent, but i bet it was NOT boring to watch!
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
| MK1ofMnM | 07-19-2005 05:26 PM |
That is so sad. :(
| ExitVisa | 07-19-2005 06:17 PM |
The executive on my floor knows several of the people that were involved and relayed a few tidbits:
1) The silver car ( number 03 ) was towards the front of the group as they came to the start & lost his engine, which started it all.
2) The cobra ( and I hope I have this part right ) is/was an original factory team car, with a value in the area of seven figures.
"Ouch" is right.
1) The silver car ( number 03 ) was towards the front of the group as they came to the start & lost his engine, which started it all.
2) The cobra ( and I hope I have this part right ) is/was an original factory team car, with a value in the area of seven figures.
"Ouch" is right.
| V6TurboTA | 07-19-2005 06:28 PM |
reason #1245237457 I dont track my car until its paid off.
that seriously sucks. especially seeing they unreplacable for the most part.
At least there were no serious injuries.
~v6
that seriously sucks. especially seeing they unreplacable for the most part.
At least there were no serious injuries.
~v6
| Davenow | 07-19-2005 06:32 PM |
[QUOTE=V6TurboTA]reason #1245237457 I dont track my car until its paid off.
~v6[/QUOTE]
Yeah because that is exactly the type of cars and drivers guys like you and I are out there with.:rolleyes:
You are put in run groups with drivers of similar abilities and experience. You dont ever come close enough for a pileup like that to happen. Unless its club racing, which it totally different than track days.
~v6[/QUOTE]
Yeah because that is exactly the type of cars and drivers guys like you and I are out there with.:rolleyes:
You are put in run groups with drivers of similar abilities and experience. You dont ever come close enough for a pileup like that to happen. Unless its club racing, which it totally different than track days.
| V6TurboTA | 07-19-2005 06:38 PM |
I am pretty sure you or I would be equally sad if we had x years left of payments on a totalled pile of metal. My point is anything can happen at any time. If you arent prepared for the worst... you are not prepared imho :)
I did not take the drivers into consideration as I do not know them, or their skill levels.
bissh :D
~v6
I did not take the drivers into consideration as I do not know them, or their skill levels.
bissh :D
~v6
| leecea | 07-20-2005 08:05 AM |
[QUOTE]You dont ever come close enough for a pileup like that to happen.[/QUOTE] That may be true, but there have been many threads about cars wrecked at track days and HPDEs.
| hotrod | 07-20-2005 08:22 AM |
Ouch is right! Most of them are fairly replaceable/repairable --- there are still lots of parts for the Mustangs, and Corvettes, but that #25 Cobra that just makes me cry. Such a sweet car, and so very rare, not counting the history of that particular chassis.
He can get it built back to factory new condition but it will cost a pretty penny to do it as the body parts and such will all have to be hand built.
There is one guy here in Colorado that can do that but his work backlog is measured in years. If you provide him an authentic OEM number plate for an AC Cobra he can hand fab a complete car to attach it to. Needless to say it takes a while!!
Larry
He can get it built back to factory new condition but it will cost a pretty penny to do it as the body parts and such will all have to be hand built.
There is one guy here in Colorado that can do that but his work backlog is measured in years. If you provide him an authentic OEM number plate for an AC Cobra he can hand fab a complete car to attach it to. Needless to say it takes a while!!
Larry
| Davenow | 07-20-2005 08:51 AM |
[QUOTE=V6TurboTA]I am pretty sure you or I would be equally sad if we had x years left of payments on a totalled pile of metal. My point is anything can happen at any time. If you arent prepared for the worst... you are not prepared imho :)
I did not take the drivers into consideration as I do not know them, or their skill levels.
bissh :D
~v6[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=leecea]That may be true, but there have been many threads about cars wrecked at track days and HPDEs.[/QUOTE]
Both very true. But at a well organized and well run track event, such as (at least my region) BMWCCA HPDE's there is VERY little chance of car to car contact. Now, car to solid object (read: wall) is a different story, but that part is 98% up to the driver. Only YOU can make yourself do something that will cause you to lose it.
I did not take the drivers into consideration as I do not know them, or their skill levels.
bissh :D
~v6[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=leecea]That may be true, but there have been many threads about cars wrecked at track days and HPDEs.[/QUOTE]
Both very true. But at a well organized and well run track event, such as (at least my region) BMWCCA HPDE's there is VERY little chance of car to car contact. Now, car to solid object (read: wall) is a different story, but that part is 98% up to the driver. Only YOU can make yourself do something that will cause you to lose it.
| C Stoyer | 07-20-2005 08:59 AM |
Good to see there were no serious injuries that came out of the incident.
I respect the owners of such historic and sometimes priceless cars that get them out of the garage and into the public so others can see and enjoy them as they were meant to be seen. To have that kind of money into a car and put it onto the track takes allot of trust in your skills and the people that you are sharing the track with. I hope this will not deter too many from vintage racing as it is really impressive to see some of the cars up close and to hear them run on the track.
I respect the owners of such historic and sometimes priceless cars that get them out of the garage and into the public so others can see and enjoy them as they were meant to be seen. To have that kind of money into a car and put it onto the track takes allot of trust in your skills and the people that you are sharing the track with. I hope this will not deter too many from vintage racing as it is really impressive to see some of the cars up close and to hear them run on the track.
| trhoppe | 07-20-2005 11:39 AM |
[QUOTE=V6TurboTA]reason #1245237457 I dont track my car until its paid off.
that seriously sucks. especially seeing they unreplacable for the most part.
At least there were no serious injuries.
~v6[/QUOTE]
Whats the real difference in balling your car now while you have 2 years worth of payments or waiting those 2 years of making payments before you ball it up ;)
-Tom
who will be one of those dumbasses in 06 in T2
that seriously sucks. especially seeing they unreplacable for the most part.
At least there were no serious injuries.
~v6[/QUOTE]
Whats the real difference in balling your car now while you have 2 years worth of payments or waiting those 2 years of making payments before you ball it up ;)
-Tom
who will be one of those dumbasses in 06 in T2
| Chin | 07-20-2005 02:41 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Whats the real difference in balling your car now while you have 2 years worth of payments or waiting those 2 years of making payments before you ball it up ;)
-Tom
who will be one of those dumbasses in 06 in T2[/QUOTE]
I'll tell you the difference.... 2 car payments! :mad:
-Tom
who will be one of those dumbasses in 06 in T2[/QUOTE]
I'll tell you the difference.... 2 car payments! :mad:
| trhoppe | 07-20-2005 02:49 PM |
:lol:
I guess what I meant is that I would have to wait 2 years to race and then race.
I don't have a payment on the daily driver which I will continue to not have payments on. I can either do
a) let the STi sit in a garage or be driven on weekends for 2 years but no racing until its payed off.
or
b) race it now, then if I ball it, spend the next 2 years not racing while I pay it off.
Either way, I am racing it, but racing it now, I take the chance of NOT wrecking it and racing it the whole time.
-Tom
I guess what I meant is that I would have to wait 2 years to race and then race.
I don't have a payment on the daily driver which I will continue to not have payments on. I can either do
a) let the STi sit in a garage or be driven on weekends for 2 years but no racing until its payed off.
or
b) race it now, then if I ball it, spend the next 2 years not racing while I pay it off.
Either way, I am racing it, but racing it now, I take the chance of NOT wrecking it and racing it the whole time.
-Tom
| Chin | 07-20-2005 02:52 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]:lol:
I guess what I meant is that I would have to wait 2 years to race and then race.
I don't have a payment on the daily driver which I will continue to not have payments on. I can either do
a) let the STi sit in a garage or be driven on weekends for 2 years but no racing until its payed off.
or
b) race it now, then if I ball it, spend the next 2 years not racing while I pay it off.
Either way, I am racing it, but racing it now, I take the chance of NOT wrecking it and racing it the whole time.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Agreed. My decision was to do not more than AutoX until the RS was paid off. At that point, I bought the STi for daily purposes and felt free to do what I want with the RS (and I have definitely done that!). ...and once the STi is paid off, the cycle repeats... :disco:
Christian
I guess what I meant is that I would have to wait 2 years to race and then race.
I don't have a payment on the daily driver which I will continue to not have payments on. I can either do
a) let the STi sit in a garage or be driven on weekends for 2 years but no racing until its payed off.
or
b) race it now, then if I ball it, spend the next 2 years not racing while I pay it off.
Either way, I am racing it, but racing it now, I take the chance of NOT wrecking it and racing it the whole time.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Agreed. My decision was to do not more than AutoX until the RS was paid off. At that point, I bought the STi for daily purposes and felt free to do what I want with the RS (and I have definitely done that!). ...and once the STi is paid off, the cycle repeats... :disco:
Christian
| Subaruski | 07-20-2005 02:56 PM |
wow thats crazy
| javid | 07-20-2005 03:06 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]:lol:
I guess what I meant is that I would have to wait 2 years to race and then race.
I don't have a payment on the daily driver which I will continue to not have payments on. I can either do
a) let the STi sit in a garage or be driven on weekends for 2 years but no racing until its payed off.
or
b) race it now, then if I ball it, spend the next 2 years not racing while I pay it off.
Either way, I am racing it, but racing it now, I take the chance of NOT wrecking it and racing it the whole time.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
:lol: You all crack me up.
How bout race your car when ever you can. If wrecked, fixe it a keep racing.
:rolleyes: Take two years off racing :rolleyes:
I guess what I meant is that I would have to wait 2 years to race and then race.
I don't have a payment on the daily driver which I will continue to not have payments on. I can either do
a) let the STi sit in a garage or be driven on weekends for 2 years but no racing until its payed off.
or
b) race it now, then if I ball it, spend the next 2 years not racing while I pay it off.
Either way, I am racing it, but racing it now, I take the chance of NOT wrecking it and racing it the whole time.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
:lol: You all crack me up.
How bout race your car when ever you can. If wrecked, fixe it a keep racing.
:rolleyes: Take two years off racing :rolleyes:
| trhoppe | 07-20-2005 03:23 PM |
By wrecked I mean flipped 18 times at 100mph and its in a ball of steel.
If wrecked == fixable, then hell yes it will be fixed.
-Tom
If wrecked == fixable, then hell yes it will be fixed.
-Tom
| SpaceGhost | 07-20-2005 03:41 PM |
I was there, That was a very bad moment.
Me on the track Fri at lunch.
[url]http://www.partypics.com/ver2/ViewImage.aspx?OrderNo=26095843&Roll=00001&Frame=0010[/url]
Me on the track Fri at lunch.
[url]http://www.partypics.com/ver2/ViewImage.aspx?OrderNo=26095843&Roll=00001&Frame=0010[/url]
| V6TurboTA | 07-20-2005 04:42 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]:lol:
I guess what I meant is that I would have to wait 2 years to race and then race.
I don't have a payment on the daily driver which I will continue to not have payments on. I can either do
a) let the STi sit in a garage or be driven on weekends for 2 years but no racing until its payed off.
or
b) race it now, then if I ball it, spend the next 2 years not racing while I pay it off.
Either way, I am racing it, but racing it now, I take the chance of NOT wrecking it and racing it the whole time.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Thats funny and kinda true. The problem with it is I will be walking for 2 years as my STi is my daily driver.
:D
~v6
I guess what I meant is that I would have to wait 2 years to race and then race.
I don't have a payment on the daily driver which I will continue to not have payments on. I can either do
a) let the STi sit in a garage or be driven on weekends for 2 years but no racing until its payed off.
or
b) race it now, then if I ball it, spend the next 2 years not racing while I pay it off.
Either way, I am racing it, but racing it now, I take the chance of NOT wrecking it and racing it the whole time.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Thats funny and kinda true. The problem with it is I will be walking for 2 years as my STi is my daily driver.
:D
~v6
| trhoppe | 07-20-2005 04:57 PM |
[QUOTE=V6TurboTA]Thats funny and kinda true. The problem with it is I will be walking for 2 years as my STi is my daily driver.
:D
~v6[/QUOTE]
Well I wouldn't club race my daily driver either :)
-Tom
who notes that beaters are very cheap.
:D
~v6[/QUOTE]
Well I wouldn't club race my daily driver either :)
-Tom
who notes that beaters are very cheap.
| cooleyjb | 07-20-2005 05:28 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx]Yep, I guess there were 17 cars involved. No serious injuries although some went to the hospital. Apparently that particular group of racers is very aggressive and there were a couple of things that caused the initial crash and subsequent accordian of cars.[/QUOTE]
racing before the green was dropped is what I have heard from a couple of different places and then not paying attention to the red flags that came out 3 seconds after the green flag.
I feel bad for those guys that now have a long rebuild ahead of them.
racing before the green was dropped is what I have heard from a couple of different places and then not paying attention to the red flags that came out 3 seconds after the green flag.
I feel bad for those guys that now have a long rebuild ahead of them.
| GravelRash | 07-20-2005 07:01 PM |
Fwiw, this didn't happen due to a blown engine.
The forum below the pics (oldest post at the bottom) makes pretty interesting reading...
The forum below the pics (oldest post at the bottom) makes pretty interesting reading...
| kwak | 07-21-2005 01:32 AM |
Sad.
A friend was not at this race but was at the same track a few weeks ago at the June Sprints pitted along the middle of the front straight. Now at most tracks you just hear cars going down the front straight, but at Road America they kept hearing crashes in different race groups along that section of track. His driver said that after coming out of the last turn you cannot see the starter's tower when you are coming up the hill let alone that section of track. Take a look at this [URL=http://www.pbase.com/atrltd/image/46317463]picture[/URL]. The top of the hill is at the very right edge of the picture. So the section of track you are looking at has a blind approach.
At a local historic race I heard the comment about a seven figure car, the plaque with the serial number is worth that much, the rest is replaceable.
A friend was not at this race but was at the same track a few weeks ago at the June Sprints pitted along the middle of the front straight. Now at most tracks you just hear cars going down the front straight, but at Road America they kept hearing crashes in different race groups along that section of track. His driver said that after coming out of the last turn you cannot see the starter's tower when you are coming up the hill let alone that section of track. Take a look at this [URL=http://www.pbase.com/atrltd/image/46317463]picture[/URL]. The top of the hill is at the very right edge of the picture. So the section of track you are looking at has a blind approach.
At a local historic race I heard the comment about a seven figure car, the plaque with the serial number is worth that much, the rest is replaceable.
| scoobyRx | 07-21-2005 05:43 AM |
Wow, I had no idea it was that many cars. We were in turn 5 or 6 for that group and heard there was a wreck and there was about an hour delay til the next group. Too bad they tore up so many nice cars.
Thanks for posting the pics
Thanks for posting the pics
| mav1c | 07-21-2005 06:53 AM |
[quote]Now, car to solid object (read: wall) is a different story, but that part is 98% up to the driver.[/quote]
That other 2% is when some fool in a POS Camaro blows his engine in a high speed corner right in front of you, lays down a nice oil slick, which sends you into a spin, off the track, and into a tire wall. :mad:
Even after that, I still track all the time.
There's more chance of getting hit on the street by some fool on their cell phone, drinking coffee, and reading the newspaper, than there is "balling" your car at a track day. :p
All that being said, really sad to see all those VERY nice cars wrecked. Glad to hear everyone was OK.
That other 2% is when some fool in a POS Camaro blows his engine in a high speed corner right in front of you, lays down a nice oil slick, which sends you into a spin, off the track, and into a tire wall. :mad:
Even after that, I still track all the time.
There's more chance of getting hit on the street by some fool on their cell phone, drinking coffee, and reading the newspaper, than there is "balling" your car at a track day. :p
All that being said, really sad to see all those VERY nice cars wrecked. Glad to hear everyone was OK.
| turboICE | 07-21-2005 08:57 AM |
[QUOTE=dcargile]1) The silver car ( number 03 ) was towards the front of the group as they came to the start & lost his engine, which started it all.[/QUOTE]
Not according to workers that were there - [QUOTE]Word I got was that somebody tried to block and squeezed somebody into the wall near the front of the field which set off the chain reaction. [/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.coloradoscca.org/prodcar/viewtopic.php?t=4702[/url]
If you got forced off fine protest at the end of the race - but don't destroy the race for everyone because of your bad luck. It is only one race and if it is a club race it is for a piece of wood. It is unlikely anyone out there made a living racing and depended on this race to feed the family - however for many people their hobby just became ALOT more expensive.
Not according to workers that were there - [QUOTE]Word I got was that somebody tried to block and squeezed somebody into the wall near the front of the field which set off the chain reaction. [/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.coloradoscca.org/prodcar/viewtopic.php?t=4702[/url]
If you got forced off fine protest at the end of the race - but don't destroy the race for everyone because of your bad luck. It is only one race and if it is a club race it is for a piece of wood. It is unlikely anyone out there made a living racing and depended on this race to feed the family - however for many people their hobby just became ALOT more expensive.
| SpaceGhost | 07-21-2005 09:24 AM |
Yes it got more expensive, but almost everyone there has disposable income. I can't believe the amount of money that is present at those races. Those cars are a big hobby for most people there. Hell the guy I met 3 years ago named Tom who used to own an original Ferrari 250 GTO and raced it, among 7 yea that's right 7 other Ferraris is a cardiologist in Chicago. He had nothing but disposable income!
| CaptainMorgan | 07-21-2005 09:39 AM |
Just some more information for you guys. I wasn't there, but a guy I work with was. I think god shed a tear or two.
[url]http://www.pbase.com/atrltd/image/46317472[/url]
[quote]
I was the operating steward for this race. The pace car did what was the right thing to do. We gave them instructions for each group. The two pole guys admitted to running up the hill at 5000 rpm in 3rd gear. The fifth place guy was racing well before the green flag and tryed to force his way between the wall and the car in front of him. He started scraping the wall and the guy behind him checked up and the car that hit him started to spin and then it was one after another into them. I am amazed that no one was killed. All the drivers except two had hans devices.
The green flag was in deed thrown. I red flagged the race with in 3 seconds of the green. Even with the red flag the drivers in the back just keep driving into the rear. The red was shown at corner 15(the walk over bridge). The drivers just did not pay attention. All drivers were forced to attend a meeting right after the incident. They were all yelled at. Interesting that in a few classes they are not allowed to pass until after turn 1 (Historic Gran Prix) and turn 3 for Can Am. One historic Gran Prix driver was banned from their series for life due to an incident in the kink.
I have to agree that the drivers in this group are some of the most agressive drivers I have ever seen. More distrubing to me were how many fist fights started after drivers started getting out of there cars. I feel that if they were able to get out they should have been happy they could even move after a incident like this.
I was very happy with how all of our crews came together to work in the heat. We had a steady flow of water for all the rescue crews, ambulance crews and wrecker crews while they were working in over 90 degree heat. What a great team.
Mike Engelke
[/quote]
[url]http://www.pbase.com/atrltd/image/46317472[/url]
[quote]
I was the operating steward for this race. The pace car did what was the right thing to do. We gave them instructions for each group. The two pole guys admitted to running up the hill at 5000 rpm in 3rd gear. The fifth place guy was racing well before the green flag and tryed to force his way between the wall and the car in front of him. He started scraping the wall and the guy behind him checked up and the car that hit him started to spin and then it was one after another into them. I am amazed that no one was killed. All the drivers except two had hans devices.
The green flag was in deed thrown. I red flagged the race with in 3 seconds of the green. Even with the red flag the drivers in the back just keep driving into the rear. The red was shown at corner 15(the walk over bridge). The drivers just did not pay attention. All drivers were forced to attend a meeting right after the incident. They were all yelled at. Interesting that in a few classes they are not allowed to pass until after turn 1 (Historic Gran Prix) and turn 3 for Can Am. One historic Gran Prix driver was banned from their series for life due to an incident in the kink.
I have to agree that the drivers in this group are some of the most agressive drivers I have ever seen. More distrubing to me were how many fist fights started after drivers started getting out of there cars. I feel that if they were able to get out they should have been happy they could even move after a incident like this.
I was very happy with how all of our crews came together to work in the heat. We had a steady flow of water for all the rescue crews, ambulance crews and wrecker crews while they were working in over 90 degree heat. What a great team.
Mike Engelke
[/quote]
| ANZAC_1915 | 07-21-2005 10:12 AM |
It'll buff out.
| javid | 07-21-2005 10:24 AM |
[QUOTE=Glenn Wallace]It'll buff out.[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
lol so hard i'm in tears
:lol: :lol: :lol:
lol so hard i'm in tears
| pyork03 | 07-21-2005 11:39 AM |
:( Rubbin is racing. Atleast they all had big enough balls to take those cars out and actually race them.
| CirrusWRX | 07-21-2005 12:08 PM |
[QUOTE=pyork03]:( Rubbin is racing. Atleast they all had big enough balls to take those cars out and actually race them.[/QUOTE]
Yeah and the good sense to start a fist fight before the smoke cleared :rolleyes:
These sound like real winnArs in my book.
Yeah and the good sense to start a fist fight before the smoke cleared :rolleyes:
These sound like real winnArs in my book.
| Bonzo | 07-21-2005 01:32 PM |
this sucks. I normally go to this wonderfull event but I was out-O-town.
Amazing know one was hurt considering the section of track this happened on. Cars can be fixed relatively cheaply compared to humans.
Amazing know one was hurt considering the section of track this happened on. Cars can be fixed relatively cheaply compared to humans.
| cooleyjb | 07-21-2005 02:13 PM |
[QUOTE=pyork03]:( Rubbin is [B]not vintage[/B] racing. [/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
| italy wrx | 07-21-2005 03:27 PM |
More money than brains I guess... glad nobody was killed.
| turboICE | 07-21-2005 07:34 PM |
I have to disagree with the rubbin' is racing - that is for the NASCAR buffs. Road racing would rather illustrate the ability to skillfully outdrive someone than push them out of the way. Not that those ovals and tri-ovals don't take condition and skill to drive at those speeds - I know all too well that they do - but NASCAR views the rubbing as a spectator provided component of the sport. Club road racing gets relatively little spectator attendance. Of the ones that are there I don't believe that they want to see wrecks, they want to see skillful tight battles.
While there are plenty of deep pockets in club racing, the majority are giving something else up to pursue their hobby - I can gaurantee you that over half those people couldn't "afford" that carnage and it will be a setback for them to come back if they even decide to. Yeah they might come up with a way but it will coming at the expense of something else, including possibly a marraige.
While there are plenty of deep pockets in club racing, the majority are giving something else up to pursue their hobby - I can gaurantee you that over half those people couldn't "afford" that carnage and it will be a setback for them to come back if they even decide to. Yeah they might come up with a way but it will coming at the expense of something else, including possibly a marraige.
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