| DrBiggly | 03-31-2004 12:05 PM |
Prepping for STX; custom Koni/GC or JIC FLT-A2s?
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In thinking of preparation for STX I want whatever would be ultimately more competitive.
I have a line on a set of JIC FLT-A2s, 8k/8k (would probably move that around a bit) or a set of used Konis to have custom rebuilt to higher specs, and then matched up with Ground Controls running 350f/450r spring rates. (Possibly higher later.)
The question in my mind is which would be most competitive? Streetability is a concern but really it would have to be absolutely inhuman for me not to be able to tolerate it on the street.
Please advise. :)
I have a line on a set of JIC FLT-A2s, 8k/8k (would probably move that around a bit) or a set of used Konis to have custom rebuilt to higher specs, and then matched up with Ground Controls running 350f/450r spring rates. (Possibly higher later.)
The question in my mind is which would be most competitive? Streetability is a concern but really it would have to be absolutely inhuman for me not to be able to tolerate it on the street.
Please advise. :)
| Orion | 03-31-2004 12:10 PM |
as far as street tolerance goes, the Koni?GC combo will benefit in comfort by using the OEM or STI tophats. that little bit of rubber will make it seem far more comfortable than the metal pillowballs on the JIC's.
i won't push one over the other for obvious reasons... ;)
i won't push one over the other for obvious reasons... ;)
| MNbiker | 03-31-2004 12:20 PM |
I'd rate the JIC's a step above a Koni Sport/GC combo, in terms of adjustability & performance. Threaded Koni DA's would be a step up from the JIC's, but you're talking significantly more $.
DISCLAIMER: My car is currently running JIC FLT-A2's with 8K/10K springs. The setup seems to be working pretty well. Hey Mike, you care to comment, as you obliterated the STX field in Topeka with my car last weekend?:D
-Steve
p.s. I'm using Cusco rear camber plates, as the JIC's don't have any camber adjustment. If I were buying now, I'd probably use the stock JIC plates and add Whiteline rear control arms for camber adjustment.
DISCLAIMER: My car is currently running JIC FLT-A2's with 8K/10K springs. The setup seems to be working pretty well. Hey Mike, you care to comment, as you obliterated the STX field in Topeka with my car last weekend?:D
-Steve
p.s. I'm using Cusco rear camber plates, as the JIC's don't have any camber adjustment. If I were buying now, I'd probably use the stock JIC plates and add Whiteline rear control arms for camber adjustment.
| DrBiggly | 03-31-2004 02:07 PM |
As far as plates for the front go, I already have Noltec race spec camber/caster plates for the front. For the rear, haven't decided yet. Any of you opinionated folks care to comment? :D
Yes Orion, I know. ;)
Thanks for the good responses guys. :)
Yes Orion, I know. ;)
Thanks for the good responses guys. :)
| MNbiker | 03-31-2004 02:11 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DrBiggly [/i]
[B]As far as plates for the front go, I already have Noltec race spec camber/caster plates for the front. For the rear, haven't decided yet. Any of you opinionated folks care to comment?[/B][/QUOTE]
The Noltec plates will work with most anything you decide to buy. Most any decent coilover setup (JIC included) come with front camber plates, but you don't have to use 'em.
-Steve
[B]As far as plates for the front go, I already have Noltec race spec camber/caster plates for the front. For the rear, haven't decided yet. Any of you opinionated folks care to comment?[/B][/QUOTE]
The Noltec plates will work with most anything you decide to buy. Most any decent coilover setup (JIC included) come with front camber plates, but you don't have to use 'em.
-Steve
| KC | 03-31-2004 02:11 PM |
Never had either of those units, so no comments here.
| DrBiggly | 03-31-2004 02:45 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MNbiker[/i]
[B] The Noltec plates will work with most anything you decide to buy. Most any decent coilover setup (JIC included) come with front camber plates, but you don't have to use 'em.
-Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
I'd already picked those up before the main part of the suspension; was going to go with Konis but now I have the chance on the JICs. Hence, my questions. :)
Tom, you not have an opinion? :lol:
[B] The Noltec plates will work with most anything you decide to buy. Most any decent coilover setup (JIC included) come with front camber plates, but you don't have to use 'em.
-Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
I'd already picked those up before the main part of the suspension; was going to go with Konis but now I have the chance on the JICs. Hence, my questions. :)
Tom, you not have an opinion? :lol:
| Fastech | 03-31-2004 02:50 PM |
My experience-
KYB AGX's w/GC 350f/450R rates + Cusco camber plates + aluminum adapter required to make it all work together= High ride height OR very limited travel in front.
Ride was pretty good UNTIL you hit a large bump, pothole, or expansion joint on the road- then all the metal would slam together and knock your fillings loose.
Looking at the KYB's, it LOOKED as though you could use the rears on the front and get a shorter strut body out of the deal, which might have helped. I traded them off before I ever got to try the theory, though.
Koni's, I expect, will probably be similar.
The JIC's were much better travel-wise but not so good with small bumps and undulations on the street.
If you could work past the travel issues on the Koni/GC combo, I don't think you would be giving up much, if anything.
Brian Flanagan
Fastech Motorsports, LLC
KYB AGX's w/GC 350f/450R rates + Cusco camber plates + aluminum adapter required to make it all work together= High ride height OR very limited travel in front.
Ride was pretty good UNTIL you hit a large bump, pothole, or expansion joint on the road- then all the metal would slam together and knock your fillings loose.
Looking at the KYB's, it LOOKED as though you could use the rears on the front and get a shorter strut body out of the deal, which might have helped. I traded them off before I ever got to try the theory, though.
Koni's, I expect, will probably be similar.
The JIC's were much better travel-wise but not so good with small bumps and undulations on the street.
If you could work past the travel issues on the Koni/GC combo, I don't think you would be giving up much, if anything.
Brian Flanagan
Fastech Motorsports, LLC
| Fastech | 03-31-2004 02:55 PM |
BTW, I tried the JIC's with 7k/10k springs too... AWESOME on course, OK over big bumps on the street, but small undulations made it feel like you were riding on a 50mph skateboard!
Brian Flanagan
Fastech Motorsports, LLC:banana:
Brian Flanagan
Fastech Motorsports, LLC:banana:
| Soontobe | 03-31-2004 02:57 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Fastech [/i]
[B]BTW, I tried the JIC's with 7k/10k springs too... AWESOME on course, OK over big bumps on the street, but small undulations made it feel like you were riding on a 50mph skateboard!
Brian Flanagan
Fastech Motorsports, LLC:banana: [/B][/QUOTE]
Was that with the older non USDM rear damper, or the newer longer length USDM rear damper?
[B]BTW, I tried the JIC's with 7k/10k springs too... AWESOME on course, OK over big bumps on the street, but small undulations made it feel like you were riding on a 50mph skateboard!
Brian Flanagan
Fastech Motorsports, LLC:banana: [/B][/QUOTE]
Was that with the older non USDM rear damper, or the newer longer length USDM rear damper?
| Fastech | 03-31-2004 02:58 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Soontobe [/i]
[B]Was that with the older non USDM rear damper, or the newer longer length USDM rear damper? [/B][/QUOTE]
Got 'em used, but I was told they were the longer ones.:confused:
[B]Was that with the older non USDM rear damper, or the newer longer length USDM rear damper? [/B][/QUOTE]
Got 'em used, but I was told they were the longer ones.:confused:
| Soontobe | 03-31-2004 03:01 PM |
They probably weren't.
Anyways, I went with Koni/GC setup after ALMOST buying a set of JIC's. I simply wanted camber and caster plates upfront, and the cost for the Koni's/GC's/Gc camber caster plates plus rear group N mounts was still ~300 cheaper then JIC's. Not to mention the extra 300 for caster plates upfront since I wanted it.
I lvoe my Koni/GC setup. BUT, I do wish I went with the overtop mount GC camber caster plates, cause right now I am only .75" lower then stock and I have very limited travel infront. I am going to order the extra hardware to make my underbody mount plates to overtop to give me the extra .5" of travel/drop.
Anyways, I went with Koni/GC setup after ALMOST buying a set of JIC's. I simply wanted camber and caster plates upfront, and the cost for the Koni's/GC's/Gc camber caster plates plus rear group N mounts was still ~300 cheaper then JIC's. Not to mention the extra 300 for caster plates upfront since I wanted it.
I lvoe my Koni/GC setup. BUT, I do wish I went with the overtop mount GC camber caster plates, cause right now I am only .75" lower then stock and I have very limited travel infront. I am going to order the extra hardware to make my underbody mount plates to overtop to give me the extra .5" of travel/drop.
| stxwrxracer | 03-31-2004 03:18 PM |
Yeah, MNBiker's setup works really good. You won't be disappointed. The car rotated as it should, handled all of what Topeka concrete had to throw at them, and are an all around great coilover setup. I have JIC's on mine right now, but knowing the Koni guys fairly well and having an '04 WRX, I was able to work a deal with Koni to build a new set of Koni's. They needed a good set of '04s to work from. Normally I'd rethink the price, but things are just working out, lets just say. After all is said and done, for Konis with a coilover setup, DA, shortened, and revalved, you're talking well over $3K. For a third of the price....the JICs might be a good alternative, but personally I don't think will be as fast. But we are talking tenths, and hundredths, and thousandths now aren't we. Get the JIC's and invest what you save in an Evolution School. It'll probably be the most worthwhile setup right now.
-Mike
-Mike
| DrBiggly | 03-31-2004 04:02 PM |
So the consensus seems to be:
Koni SA/GC: Fast, cheapest
JICs: FastAr
Koni DA/GC: Fastest, but $3,000
That about sum it up? :)
Koni SA/GC: Fast, cheapest
JICs: FastAr
Koni DA/GC: Fastest, but $3,000
That about sum it up? :)
| BriDrive | 03-31-2004 05:00 PM |
Mike,
What does one get out of the Koni DA setup that they don't out of a JIC FLT RS?
Is it the ability to adjust Bump and Rebound?
Is it that the customized spring rates specified are more optimized to the valving in the Koni?
Just curious why you think that...Last time you ran against us you were bone stock and beat the fastest STX by 2.3 seconds in January.
These suspension options are truly hair splitting differences that regular non-national level competitors can't even feel.
No offense to Dr.Biggly who may be very fast in his own right but I've already learned that is as important or even MORE so to properly setup ANY coilover and understand (testing things like ride height, corner weight, alignment and then tune rebound and tire pressure to circuit) before most folks ever get anywhere near the tenths and hundreths of difference you talk about. With that said: in 99% of the cases I'd say the JIC is the best overall adjustable bang for the buck you can buy and I think you give GREAT advice on school with the savings....
Just think, If I were Mike King or Hoppe or Casey...I would be thinking right now about whether I should spend an additional $1000 to get that last 5 hundreths of a second.....Hmmmmm
BriDrive
What does one get out of the Koni DA setup that they don't out of a JIC FLT RS?
Is it the ability to adjust Bump and Rebound?
Is it that the customized spring rates specified are more optimized to the valving in the Koni?
Just curious why you think that...Last time you ran against us you were bone stock and beat the fastest STX by 2.3 seconds in January.
These suspension options are truly hair splitting differences that regular non-national level competitors can't even feel.
No offense to Dr.Biggly who may be very fast in his own right but I've already learned that is as important or even MORE so to properly setup ANY coilover and understand (testing things like ride height, corner weight, alignment and then tune rebound and tire pressure to circuit) before most folks ever get anywhere near the tenths and hundreths of difference you talk about. With that said: in 99% of the cases I'd say the JIC is the best overall adjustable bang for the buck you can buy and I think you give GREAT advice on school with the savings....
Just think, If I were Mike King or Hoppe or Casey...I would be thinking right now about whether I should spend an additional $1000 to get that last 5 hundreths of a second.....Hmmmmm
BriDrive
| DrBiggly | 03-31-2004 06:17 PM |
I'm not very fast in my own right; in fact quite slow. However preparing is something that I take quite seriously and I intend to prep for STX. It will be a while before any of the bigger folks even see me show up to events. :)
Although last year I did work on a personal lightweight mod...went from 210lbs to 170. :banana: Gotta keep down to race weight. ;)
Although last year I did work on a personal lightweight mod...went from 210lbs to 170. :banana: Gotta keep down to race weight. ;)
| zzyzx | 03-31-2004 06:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DrBiggly [/i]
[B]So the consensus seems to be:
Koni SA/GC: Fast, cheapest
JICs: FastAr
Koni DA/GC: Fastest, but $3,000
That about sum it up? :) [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure where the Koni numbers are coming from. I purchased a custom coilover setup from GC using the Koni 8611 DA inserts inside GC custom strut bodies for less than $1700. The 8611s are a hydraulic unit orig made for Touring Car series in Europe. I haven't had a single issue with them since I purchased them over a year ago.
That, and Konis are so well understood and supported in the racing community, there is IMO nothing that compares to them for a Subaru.
- Steve
[B]So the consensus seems to be:
Koni SA/GC: Fast, cheapest
JICs: FastAr
Koni DA/GC: Fastest, but $3,000
That about sum it up? :) [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure where the Koni numbers are coming from. I purchased a custom coilover setup from GC using the Koni 8611 DA inserts inside GC custom strut bodies for less than $1700. The 8611s are a hydraulic unit orig made for Touring Car series in Europe. I haven't had a single issue with them since I purchased them over a year ago.
That, and Konis are so well understood and supported in the racing community, there is IMO nothing that compares to them for a Subaru.
- Steve
| kwh29 | 03-31-2004 07:58 PM |
zzyzx is saying the exact thing I've been telling DrBiggly on IM for a while -- here it is rephrased and clarified:
The JIC stuff is nice, it's pretty cool that they include camber/caster plates with the strut, they look cool, but good luck getting them worked on without looong delays and AFAIK the mfg is the _only_ source for revalves.
The Koni/GC SA combo is cheaper off the shelf but needs separate camber plates, setting them up to not compromise travel can be a pain, and they look sort of like a hack. However, and this is a biggie, they are well known by many companies with at least 5 choices for maintenance/revalves. Also it's relatively easy to start with a SA and upgrade later to DA without having to start from scratch.
--Kevin H.
DS boy with (still...) factory struts
The JIC stuff is nice, it's pretty cool that they include camber/caster plates with the strut, they look cool, but good luck getting them worked on without looong delays and AFAIK the mfg is the _only_ source for revalves.
The Koni/GC SA combo is cheaper off the shelf but needs separate camber plates, setting them up to not compromise travel can be a pain, and they look sort of like a hack. However, and this is a biggie, they are well known by many companies with at least 5 choices for maintenance/revalves. Also it's relatively easy to start with a SA and upgrade later to DA without having to start from scratch.
--Kevin H.
DS boy with (still...) factory struts
| Eric1855 | 03-31-2004 08:52 PM |
I have the Koni/GC set-up for over a year now. I haven't had any troubles.
The ride is VERY rough, but i have very stiff spring rates, 600/550. But i have the 600 in the rear, and the 550 up front, which goes against popular opinion, but i found the car rotates easier and doesnt push as much through the turns this way.
Also, after a year of daily driving and a ton of AutoX's i have yet to blow a strut, also depsite popular opinion.
I have ridden in WRXs with Cusco Zero2R's, JIC's, and Tein's. I like my set up just as well as those, and it was 1/2 the price of those.
but thats just my opinion :banana:
The ride is VERY rough, but i have very stiff spring rates, 600/550. But i have the 600 in the rear, and the 550 up front, which goes against popular opinion, but i found the car rotates easier and doesnt push as much through the turns this way.
Also, after a year of daily driving and a ton of AutoX's i have yet to blow a strut, also depsite popular opinion.
I have ridden in WRXs with Cusco Zero2R's, JIC's, and Tein's. I like my set up just as well as those, and it was 1/2 the price of those.
but thats just my opinion :banana:
| D_REX | 03-31-2004 08:57 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Eric1855 [/i]
[B]I have the Koni/GC set-up for over a year now. I haven't had any troubles.
The ride is VERY rough, but i have very stiff spring rates, 600/550. But i have the 600 in the rear, and the 550 up front, which goes against popular opinion, but i found the car rotates easier and doesnt push as much through the turns this way.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Are you running revalved Konis or just plain jane off the shelf units?
Thanks,
Dustin
[B]I have the Koni/GC set-up for over a year now. I haven't had any troubles.
The ride is VERY rough, but i have very stiff spring rates, 600/550. But i have the 600 in the rear, and the 550 up front, which goes against popular opinion, but i found the car rotates easier and doesnt push as much through the turns this way.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Are you running revalved Konis or just plain jane off the shelf units?
Thanks,
Dustin
| Eric1855 | 03-31-2004 09:16 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by D_REX [/i]
[B]Are you running revalved Konis or just plain jane off the shelf units?
Thanks,
Dustin [/B][/QUOTE]
right off the shelf from Tire Rack. None have blown, none have had any trouble at all. Well one threw the bolt that held it in the sleeve in the bottom once, but then i just retapped the hole and put a new bolt in. Still no problems.
[B]Are you running revalved Konis or just plain jane off the shelf units?
Thanks,
Dustin [/B][/QUOTE]
right off the shelf from Tire Rack. None have blown, none have had any trouble at all. Well one threw the bolt that held it in the sleeve in the bottom once, but then i just retapped the hole and put a new bolt in. Still no problems.
| Burnout | 03-31-2004 11:49 PM |
Wait a second did i miss something? Mike did you get a subaru?????
| DrBiggly | 04-05-2004 09:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stxwrxracer [/i]
[B]Yeah, MNBiker's setup works really good. You won't be disappointed. The car rotated as it should, handled all of what Topeka concrete had to throw at them, and are an all around great coilover setup. I have JIC's on mine right now, but knowing the Koni guys fairly well and having an '04 WRX, I was able to work a deal with Koni to build a new set of Koni's. They needed a good set of '04s to work from. Normally I'd rethink the price, but things are just working out, lets just say. After all is said and done, for Konis with a coilover setup, DA, shortened, and revalved, you're talking well over $3K. For a third of the price....the JICs might be a good alternative, but personally I don't think will be as fast. But we are talking tenths, and hundredths, and thousandths now aren't we. Get the JIC's and invest what you save in an Evolution School. It'll probably be the most worthwhile setup right now.
-Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks to Mike for the advice; I even questioned him about spring rates on his WRX at the Grassroots Motorsports Challenge. (I had watched the WRX run the course earlier in the day before official runs had started.)
Thanks for the help!
Set of Koni SAs and GCs: About $1200
Set of JICs with 8k/10k: About $1600
Set of Koni DAs, custom: About $3000
Getting asked about your spring rates by Biggly in a 1987 RX: Priceless. :D
[IMG]http://photos.drbiggly.com/grm-2004/IMG_8050-small.jpg[/IMG]
[B]Yeah, MNBiker's setup works really good. You won't be disappointed. The car rotated as it should, handled all of what Topeka concrete had to throw at them, and are an all around great coilover setup. I have JIC's on mine right now, but knowing the Koni guys fairly well and having an '04 WRX, I was able to work a deal with Koni to build a new set of Koni's. They needed a good set of '04s to work from. Normally I'd rethink the price, but things are just working out, lets just say. After all is said and done, for Konis with a coilover setup, DA, shortened, and revalved, you're talking well over $3K. For a third of the price....the JICs might be a good alternative, but personally I don't think will be as fast. But we are talking tenths, and hundredths, and thousandths now aren't we. Get the JIC's and invest what you save in an Evolution School. It'll probably be the most worthwhile setup right now.
-Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks to Mike for the advice; I even questioned him about spring rates on his WRX at the Grassroots Motorsports Challenge. (I had watched the WRX run the course earlier in the day before official runs had started.)
Thanks for the help!
Set of Koni SAs and GCs: About $1200
Set of JICs with 8k/10k: About $1600
Set of Koni DAs, custom: About $3000
Getting asked about your spring rates by Biggly in a 1987 RX: Priceless. :D
[IMG]http://photos.drbiggly.com/grm-2004/IMG_8050-small.jpg[/IMG]
| pleiades | 04-05-2004 09:52 PM |
ROFL.. When I snapped that shot, I never imagined it would be used in this way. :lol:
| DrBiggly | 04-05-2004 09:54 PM |
Hey it's not like he was working the corner and soliciting or anything... :lol:
| Jsortor | 04-05-2004 11:37 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BriDrive [/i]
[B] Just think, If I were Mike King or Hoppe or Casey...I would be thinking right now about whether I should spend an additional $1000 to get that last 5 hundreths of a second.....Hmmmmm
BriDrive [/B][/QUOTE]
It is ...almost.. cool being the dark horse you know... King/Hoppe/Casey........
J Sortor
[B] Just think, If I were Mike King or Hoppe or Casey...I would be thinking right now about whether I should spend an additional $1000 to get that last 5 hundreths of a second.....Hmmmmm
BriDrive [/B][/QUOTE]
It is ...almost.. cool being the dark horse you know... King/Hoppe/Casey........
J Sortor
| stxwrxracer | 04-06-2004 08:55 AM |
:lol: Sorry guys, I'm back. I've been off the board for a few days. The $2004 Challenge was fun though. What an awesome group of cars. The bar has been raised, lets just say. I wish I could have had more time on my hands to talk more about the spring rates and all, but things were moving pretty fast. Especially the part about having to jump from one car to another and then run, then jump in another car and run...that was tough:banana: ;) And btw...I'm still not looking for a date for the banquet...:huh:
Well, I raised the rear of my WRX about 3/4 inch for Sunday's autocross, feels much better as far as its bounciness (pogoness). Still, with the 5kg springs I have on the rear right now for street driving, it makes autocrossing the WRX a somewhat chore...lots of push, and no rotation.
Well, I raised the rear of my WRX about 3/4 inch for Sunday's autocross, feels much better as far as its bounciness (pogoness). Still, with the 5kg springs I have on the rear right now for street driving, it makes autocrossing the WRX a somewhat chore...lots of push, and no rotation.
| stxwrxracer | 04-06-2004 09:00 AM |
:lol: Sorry guys, I'm back. I've been off the board for a few days. The $2004 Challenge was fun though. What an awesome group of cars. The bar has been raised, lets just say. I wish I could have had more time on my hands to talk more about the spring rates and all, but things were moving pretty fast. Especially the part about having to jump from one car to another and then run, then jump in another car and run...that was tough:banana: ;) And btw...I'm still not looking for a date for the banquet...:huh:
Well, I raised the rear of my WRX about 3/4 inch for Sunday's autocross, feels much better as far as its bounciness (pogoness), especially for the street. Now its 13.5" front and rear from the center of the hub. Still, with the 5kg springs I have on the rear right now for street driving, it makes autocrossing the WRX somewhat of a chore...lots of push, and no rotation. So, going back to the 8kgs I have sitting in the garage for the Divisional. It'll at least help get the back end to come around. May even get an alignment this time...
-Mike
Well, I raised the rear of my WRX about 3/4 inch for Sunday's autocross, feels much better as far as its bounciness (pogoness), especially for the street. Now its 13.5" front and rear from the center of the hub. Still, with the 5kg springs I have on the rear right now for street driving, it makes autocrossing the WRX somewhat of a chore...lots of push, and no rotation. So, going back to the 8kgs I have sitting in the garage for the Divisional. It'll at least help get the back end to come around. May even get an alignment this time...
-Mike
| DrBiggly | 04-06-2004 09:36 AM |
I knew you were busy; that's why I appreciated you taking the time to answer a seemingly out-of-left-field question like that. Too bad you couldn't get any exhibition runs in the RX...it was quite interesting with race tires on the front and crappy tires in the rear, plus the 250#f/300#r spring rates. Steven loved it and I was skeered; just hoping I wouldn't loop the thing. :lol:
-Biggly
-Biggly
| stxwrxracer | 04-06-2004 01:10 PM |
Yeah, I was looking forward to driving the RX. I didn't even get a shot at the SVX. So, no "Pro" ended up driving either of the cars, right? For what its worth, we ended up running the same course on Sunday and the best I could run in my STX WRX with the 5kg rears was a 54.200. I ran Shaun Parks STU STi on Azenis for my last run and ran a 53.7, but taking about half the run to keep the back end behind me. Gawd, that car is fun...So, when is someone gonna build a $2005 WRX drivetrained Locost for next year's Challenge?...hmm...
-Mike
P.S. Actually looking at building a Hayabusa-ish powered Berkeley for next year....
-Mike
P.S. Actually looking at building a Hayabusa-ish powered Berkeley for next year....
| DrBiggly | 04-06-2004 01:29 PM |
Mike: Actually the SVX got pro time: Alan (forget his last name) got 2 runs in it and got it down to a 56.6. He really liked it and commented on how well it handled the slalom. So that's the reason you didn't get a shot at the quite lightened SVX. ;)
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