| alltracin | 06-29-2006 09:42 PM |
R- compound ramblings
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Hey all,
Some background...
I'm coming from a 100% STS background until this year. When I got my '06 WRX it had the horrible stock tires that I used to start to get to know the car. I upgraded to great street tires, RE070s and the difference was tremendous, street or autocross. I then got a set of 235/40/17 A032R soft compounds used. They were street driven for a summer by an EVO. (I don't know how he did it, they're like jeep tires!)
Now, after my first few events on R-comps, my reaction is less than stellar. Everyone talks about how once you drive on Rs you'll never want to go back to street tires. The only time that's held true for me this far is in the rain. At Danville in a torrential rainstorm I loved every minute of driving the car Very Happy Anyways, do you think it's the little difference there is between nice street tires and the A032s? Maybe the fact that they aren't V710s? The fact that they were street driven and probably heat cycled out? I just feel like the overall grip isn't that much better, and the grip isn't worth the overall lack of communication they give me.
...I feel like driving on my street tires the next few events to see if I pax better
Thanks for reading all of that, if you did
Some background...
I'm coming from a 100% STS background until this year. When I got my '06 WRX it had the horrible stock tires that I used to start to get to know the car. I upgraded to great street tires, RE070s and the difference was tremendous, street or autocross. I then got a set of 235/40/17 A032R soft compounds used. They were street driven for a summer by an EVO. (I don't know how he did it, they're like jeep tires!)
Now, after my first few events on R-comps, my reaction is less than stellar. Everyone talks about how once you drive on Rs you'll never want to go back to street tires. The only time that's held true for me this far is in the rain. At Danville in a torrential rainstorm I loved every minute of driving the car Very Happy Anyways, do you think it's the little difference there is between nice street tires and the A032s? Maybe the fact that they aren't V710s? The fact that they were street driven and probably heat cycled out? I just feel like the overall grip isn't that much better, and the grip isn't worth the overall lack of communication they give me.
...I feel like driving on my street tires the next few events to see if I pax better
Thanks for reading all of that, if you did
| BIGSKYWRX | 06-29-2006 11:39 PM |
I think you hit the most likely reasons for the less than stellar performance- first the RE070 is a very, very good street tire. If he daily drove the 032's they could easily be heat cycled out.
I think the 032 in soft are a pretty good R compound, but definitely not in the league of 710's or Hoosiers. Probably a better choice for the track (even though they tout the soft compound for autox and they're M/H for the track). Speaking of soft vs M/H do they state the compound on the tire or are you relying on what he purchased? Thinking possible mixup as another scenario????
I think the 032 in soft are a pretty good R compound, but definitely not in the league of 710's or Hoosiers. Probably a better choice for the track (even though they tout the soft compound for autox and they're M/H for the track). Speaking of soft vs M/H do they state the compound on the tire or are you relying on what he purchased? Thinking possible mixup as another scenario????
| djb_rh | 06-29-2006 11:44 PM |
It's probably that they are somewhat heat cycled out *and* that A032's just aren't in the league of what people are talking about when they are raving about "r-compounds." They mean Hoosiers or V710s.
Put some 275 Hoosier A6's on that bad boy, and you'll be raving.
--Donnie
Put some 275 Hoosier A6's on that bad boy, and you'll be raving.
--Donnie
| GotWRX03 | 06-29-2006 11:47 PM |
right on mike.
in addition, 235s (though it's an r-compound) on a WRX, is barely wide to notice a substantial difference. BUT if you go to something like 245s or 255s on A032s, you'll definitely know the difference.
again, just like bigsky said, they're definitely not in the league of the 710s or hoosiers.
in addition, 235s (though it's an r-compound) on a WRX, is barely wide to notice a substantial difference. BUT if you go to something like 245s or 255s on A032s, you'll definitely know the difference.
again, just like bigsky said, they're definitely not in the league of the 710s or hoosiers.
| REX8 | 06-29-2006 11:49 PM |
A cycled A032 isn't much different than the RE070...
Try a "real" R-Comp, the 032's are really a driving school/rain/track day tire...
Try a "real" R-Comp, the 032's are really a driving school/rain/track day tire...
| Paisan | 06-29-2006 11:49 PM |
If he drove on em last summer and stored them over the winter, they are done. Get some fresh ones and use em only for the track and you'll like em. My personal favorites unless you are racing (wheel to wheel) the Advan A048Rs or the Toyo RA1s are great Rs that will last a whole season of HPDEs.
-mike
-mike
| ratt_finkel | 06-30-2006 08:25 AM |
[QUOTE=djb_rh]It's probably that they are somewhat heat cycled out *and* that A032's just aren't in the league of what people are talking about when they are raving about "r-compounds." They mean Hoosiers or V710s.
Put some 275 Hoosier A6's on that bad boy, and you'll be raving.
--Donnie[/QUOTE]
Bingo, even a set of 245 V710's will have you wondering why you wasted your time on the yoks. The A032R is probably the most "streetable" R-comp out there. But I wouldn't even consider them for track days. Just about every other r-comp out there is better.
And like you mentioned, you felt the RE-070's were just as fast. They probably are!
Make the switch and you'll see what we are all taking about.
FYI, I made a similar switch to you. I started out on RS-92's. Then went to Falken 215's (what a joy those tires). Then to V710's. The difference was night and day. Street tires suck nutz!
Put some 275 Hoosier A6's on that bad boy, and you'll be raving.
--Donnie[/QUOTE]
Bingo, even a set of 245 V710's will have you wondering why you wasted your time on the yoks. The A032R is probably the most "streetable" R-comp out there. But I wouldn't even consider them for track days. Just about every other r-comp out there is better.
And like you mentioned, you felt the RE-070's were just as fast. They probably are!
Make the switch and you'll see what we are all taking about.
FYI, I made a similar switch to you. I started out on RS-92's. Then went to Falken 215's (what a joy those tires). Then to V710's. The difference was night and day. Street tires suck nutz!
| mav1c | 06-30-2006 08:30 AM |
Yeah, I've never heard good things about the A032R's. I think you'd see an improvement just going to something like an RA-1. You'd see a HUGE improvement going to something like a V710 or Hoosier.
A little OT...Does anyone have any experience with the Yoko A048 and/or the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup for a track day tire? I REALLY want to run 245/40-17 and these are the only two I've found that really fit my reqiorements (I know Hoosier has this size, but I'm not racing, just track days).
A little OT...Does anyone have any experience with the Yoko A048 and/or the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup for a track day tire? I REALLY want to run 245/40-17 and these are the only two I've found that really fit my reqiorements (I know Hoosier has this size, but I'm not racing, just track days).
| sachilles | 06-30-2006 08:55 AM |
I have a set of A032r's that have seen better days....and honestly I'd rather run old azenis(rt 215).
I don't think an autocross gets them warmed up enough to be any good.
Still better than many street tires, but not all of them.
I don't think an autocross gets them warmed up enough to be any good.
Still better than many street tires, but not all of them.
| javid | 06-30-2006 09:09 AM |
[QUOTE=mav1c] I think you'd see an improvement just going to something like an RA-1. You'd see a HUGE improvement going to something like a V710 or Hoosier.
[/QUOTE]
I went through 2 sets of the 070s for street and track days before upgrading to 255 RA-1s and was VERY impressed, both wet and dry performance was improved. Then I got a set of cycled 275 710 take-offs and they were notably faster and certainly alot of fun but not as fast as they should be.
[/QUOTE]
I went through 2 sets of the 070s for street and track days before upgrading to 255 RA-1s and was VERY impressed, both wet and dry performance was improved. Then I got a set of cycled 275 710 take-offs and they were notably faster and certainly alot of fun but not as fast as they should be.
| djb_rh | 06-30-2006 09:49 AM |
[QUOTE=mav1c]
A little OT...Does anyone have any experience with the Yoko A048 and/or the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup for a track day tire? I REALLY want to run 245/40-17 and these are the only two I've found that really fit my reqiorements (I know Hoosier has this size, but I'm not racing, just track days).[/QUOTE]
Only PSC time I have is on the street, though they're good tires. One thing I noticed while visiting the One Lap of America stop this year at VIR was that there were pretty much two different tires for the entire field...the Michelin PSC and the Yokohoma Advan Neova. Seemed to be a fairly even split. That says something to me...
--Donnie
A little OT...Does anyone have any experience with the Yoko A048 and/or the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup for a track day tire? I REALLY want to run 245/40-17 and these are the only two I've found that really fit my reqiorements (I know Hoosier has this size, but I'm not racing, just track days).[/QUOTE]
Only PSC time I have is on the street, though they're good tires. One thing I noticed while visiting the One Lap of America stop this year at VIR was that there were pretty much two different tires for the entire field...the Michelin PSC and the Yokohoma Advan Neova. Seemed to be a fairly even split. That says something to me...
--Donnie
| Butt Dyno | 06-30-2006 10:19 AM |
[QUOTE=djb_rh]Only PSC time I have is on the street, though they're good tires. One thing I noticed while visiting the One Lap of America stop this year at VIR was that there were pretty much two different tires for the entire field...the Michelin PSC and the Yokohoma Advan Neova. Seemed to be a fairly even split. That says something to me...[/QUOTE]Were the One Lap tires Pilot Sport Cups or Pilot Sport PS2's? I thought the PSC's were R-tires, and PS2's were street tires.
| Paisan | 06-30-2006 10:46 AM |
[QUOTE=mav1c]Yeah, I've never heard good things about the A032R's. I think you'd see an improvement just going to something like an RA-1. You'd see a HUGE improvement going to something like a V710 or Hoosier.
A little OT...Does anyone have any experience with the Yoko A048 and/or the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup for a track day tire? I REALLY want to run 245/40-17 and these are the only two I've found that really fit my reqiorements (I know Hoosier has this size, but I'm not racing, just track days).[/QUOTE]
Just put a set of A048Rs on my 94 Legacy Turbo for HPDEs. So far great tire, and great wearing. Not as much grip as the V710s but a little more grip than RA1s and the MH compound is wearing like a rock.
-mike
A little OT...Does anyone have any experience with the Yoko A048 and/or the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup for a track day tire? I REALLY want to run 245/40-17 and these are the only two I've found that really fit my reqiorements (I know Hoosier has this size, but I'm not racing, just track days).[/QUOTE]
Just put a set of A048Rs on my 94 Legacy Turbo for HPDEs. So far great tire, and great wearing. Not as much grip as the V710s but a little more grip than RA1s and the MH compound is wearing like a rock.
-mike
| djb_rh | 06-30-2006 10:49 AM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]Were the One Lap tires Pilot Sport Cups or Pilot Sport PS2's? I thought the PSC's were R-tires, and PS2's were street tires.[/QUOTE]
*grumble* Forgot both existed and now I don't remember.
--Donnie
*grumble* Forgot both existed and now I don't remember.
--Donnie
| mav1c | 06-30-2006 01:15 PM |
Yeah, they couldn't have been PSC's as one lap doesn't allow R-Comp tires. Must have been the PS2's.
| ratt_finkel | 06-30-2006 01:23 PM |
[QUOTE=mav1c]Yeah, they couldn't have been PSC's as one lap doesn't allow R-Comp tires. Must have been the PS2's.[/QUOTE]
Didn't they used to allow R-comps? Because realillistcally, the PS2's don't hold a candle to the Advan's, except for maybe wear.
Didn't they used to allow R-comps? Because realillistcally, the PS2's don't hold a candle to the Advan's, except for maybe wear.
| ToddStratton | 06-30-2006 01:31 PM |
Personally, I don't think the Advan 032 soft compund tires are all that good. I moved up to 255/40 from 225/45 Dunlop SS Race and I preferred the Dunlops. Granted this is for track duty and I can feel the improvement of the wider tires...mine were shaved from Tire rack and although they do good for a lap or two, they seem to go off pretty quickly. Then there is the incredible 4x4 style noise they make...
I'll be looking for RA1s once these are toast.
Todd
I'll be looking for RA1s once these are toast.
Todd
| alltracin | 06-30-2006 09:39 PM |
Well, that sums it up. Thanks guys. I got them for $200, and I meant them to be "learner" R-comps. Once I decide if I'm going to stick around in DS next season I'll invest in some 245 710s as I don't think 275s will clear a non-sti. I knew they wouldn't be as fast, but didn't think I'd practically get flamed lol :lol:
| PhilC | 06-30-2006 10:09 PM |
[QUOTE=djb_rh]One thing I noticed while visiting the One Lap of America stop this year at VIR was that there were pretty much two different tires for the entire field...the Michelin PSC and the Yokohoma Advan Neova. Seemed to be a fairly even split. That says something to me...
--Donnie[/QUOTE]
It says...TireRack doesn't sell Falkens or Hankooks. :lol: Three tires worth driving on from the street tire perspective and only one is sold by TireRack. If the Neovas weren't available in a size for your car then you were stuck with something else TireRack sells.
--Donnie[/QUOTE]
It says...TireRack doesn't sell Falkens or Hankooks. :lol: Three tires worth driving on from the street tire perspective and only one is sold by TireRack. If the Neovas weren't available in a size for your car then you were stuck with something else TireRack sells.
| djb_rh | 06-30-2006 10:25 PM |
Obviously I haven't bought a lot of uber-high-performance street tires. I had no idea they didn't sell Falkens or Hankooks. Interesting.
--Donnie
--Donnie
| silver arrow | 06-30-2006 11:28 PM |
Wish they sold Falkens, I am planning a very budget oriented One Lap campaign next year and at half the price of the Advans they would be my first choice.
| Paisan | 07-01-2006 01:02 AM |
[QUOTE=ToddStratton]Personally, I don't think the Advan 032 soft compund tires are all that good. I moved up to 255/40 from 225/45 Dunlop SS Race and I preferred the Dunlops. Granted this is for track duty and I can feel the improvement of the wider tires...mine were shaved from Tire rack and although they do good for a lap or two, they seem to go off pretty quickly. Then there is the incredible 4x4 style noise they make...
I'll be looking for RA1s once these are toast.
Todd[/QUOTE]
Hmm why on EARTH would you think that the Advan 032 SOFT compound would be good for track use? The soft compound is for wet and/or Auto-x use only! That would be like saying that a rally car setup for DIRT handles real bad on a road course!
-mike
I'll be looking for RA1s once these are toast.
Todd[/QUOTE]
Hmm why on EARTH would you think that the Advan 032 SOFT compound would be good for track use? The soft compound is for wet and/or Auto-x use only! That would be like saying that a rally car setup for DIRT handles real bad on a road course!
-mike
| Pete Holt | 07-01-2006 05:45 PM |
[QUOTE=mav1c]Yeah, I've never heard good things about the A032R's. I think you'd see an improvement just going to something like an RA-1. You'd see a HUGE improvement going to something like a V710 or Hoosier.
A little OT...Does anyone have any experience with the Yoko A048 and/or the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup for a track day tire? I REALLY want to run 245/40-17 and these are the only two I've found that really fit my reqiorements (I know Hoosier has this size, but I'm not racing, just track days).[/QUOTE]
I picked up a set of the Advan A048's late last year for a track day in the same soft compound that comes on the Lotus Elise with the track pckg. I just use them for HPDE's and they work great. Very sticky and they wear pretty well. I am about half way through track days this year and I would say they probably have a little more than half life at this point. Kind of pricey, but I hear they wear better than Hoosiers.
A little OT...Does anyone have any experience with the Yoko A048 and/or the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup for a track day tire? I REALLY want to run 245/40-17 and these are the only two I've found that really fit my reqiorements (I know Hoosier has this size, but I'm not racing, just track days).[/QUOTE]
I picked up a set of the Advan A048's late last year for a track day in the same soft compound that comes on the Lotus Elise with the track pckg. I just use them for HPDE's and they work great. Very sticky and they wear pretty well. I am about half way through track days this year and I would say they probably have a little more than half life at this point. Kind of pricey, but I hear they wear better than Hoosiers.
| ToddStratton | 07-03-2006 08:53 PM |
[QUOTE=Paisan]Hmm why on EARTH would you think that the Advan 032 SOFT compound would be good for track use? The soft compound is for wet and/or Auto-x use only! That would be like saying that a rally car setup for DIRT handles real bad on a road course!
-mike[/QUOTE]
So, is that based on driving experience with the H and S compounds, or just what you read somewhere on the internet? Please tell me you've run both in a track environment and have something useful to add...
And I didn't say they handled bad...you think there is some magic compound that works for autox but not the track? Bzzz...wrong. These are not "autox" or "rain" tires (in either compound). In fact I can't imagine them being competetive at all in autox compared to even the old victoracers. STis are a little heavy for the S compound, but as long as you have a proper alginement (I do) and manage temps on the track they are fine. I am getting nice even wear, good grip and many smiles from the tires.
I talked to folks who ran them on the track with Imprezas and they were happy with them...and I see them on cars frequently at the track here, mostly becuase the H compounds seem to be very hard to come by. The fact that I prefer the feedback characteristics of the Dunlops remains.
And I should clarify that when I mean they go off after 2 laps, I mean after 26 miles of track driving...and on the next 13 miles or so they feel a little greasy.
Todd
-mike[/QUOTE]
So, is that based on driving experience with the H and S compounds, or just what you read somewhere on the internet? Please tell me you've run both in a track environment and have something useful to add...
And I didn't say they handled bad...you think there is some magic compound that works for autox but not the track? Bzzz...wrong. These are not "autox" or "rain" tires (in either compound). In fact I can't imagine them being competetive at all in autox compared to even the old victoracers. STis are a little heavy for the S compound, but as long as you have a proper alginement (I do) and manage temps on the track they are fine. I am getting nice even wear, good grip and many smiles from the tires.
I talked to folks who ran them on the track with Imprezas and they were happy with them...and I see them on cars frequently at the track here, mostly becuase the H compounds seem to be very hard to come by. The fact that I prefer the feedback characteristics of the Dunlops remains.
And I should clarify that when I mean they go off after 2 laps, I mean after 26 miles of track driving...and on the next 13 miles or so they feel a little greasy.
Todd
| Chiketkd | 07-03-2006 11:20 PM |
I just picked up some low mileage RE070's Sunday and got them mounted today! I can now see why people rave about this being an extremely good street tire! :banana: :banana:
| Paisan | 07-04-2006 12:42 AM |
[QUOTE=ToddStratton]So, is that based on driving experience with the H and S compounds, or just what you read somewhere on the internet? Please tell me you've run both in a track environment and have something useful to add...
And I didn't say they handled bad...you think there is some magic compound that works for autox but not the track? Bzzz...wrong. These are not "autox" or "rain" tires (in either compound). In fact I can't imagine them being competetive at all in autox compared to even the old victoracers. STis are a little heavy for the S compound, but as long as you have a proper alginement (I do) and manage temps on the track they are fine. I am getting nice even wear, good grip and many smiles from the tires.
I talked to folks who ran them on the track with Imprezas and they were happy with them...and I see them on cars frequently at the track here, mostly becuase the H compounds seem to be very hard to come by. The fact that I prefer the feedback characteristics of the Dunlops remains.
And I should clarify that when I mean they go off after 2 laps, I mean after 26 miles of track driving...and on the next 13 miles or so they feel a little greasy.
Todd[/QUOTE]
1) What track is 13 miles long? I thought VIR and Watkins Glen were long at about 3.5 miles!
2) I am a certified track instructor so yes I have plenty of experience with soft compound tires etc.
Most folks who track their cars or race use at least the MH compound as the softer compound such as Rs with Soft compound or tires like the original Azenis (haven't run the new ones yet) or most street tires will get too greasy after 10-12 minutes of a session.
Like I said if you run the harder compounds you'll have a set of tires that last most of the season of HPDE, unless you are competing for big money it's not worth it to get the softer compound IMHO.
-mike
And I didn't say they handled bad...you think there is some magic compound that works for autox but not the track? Bzzz...wrong. These are not "autox" or "rain" tires (in either compound). In fact I can't imagine them being competetive at all in autox compared to even the old victoracers. STis are a little heavy for the S compound, but as long as you have a proper alginement (I do) and manage temps on the track they are fine. I am getting nice even wear, good grip and many smiles from the tires.
I talked to folks who ran them on the track with Imprezas and they were happy with them...and I see them on cars frequently at the track here, mostly becuase the H compounds seem to be very hard to come by. The fact that I prefer the feedback characteristics of the Dunlops remains.
And I should clarify that when I mean they go off after 2 laps, I mean after 26 miles of track driving...and on the next 13 miles or so they feel a little greasy.
Todd[/QUOTE]
1) What track is 13 miles long? I thought VIR and Watkins Glen were long at about 3.5 miles!
2) I am a certified track instructor so yes I have plenty of experience with soft compound tires etc.
Most folks who track their cars or race use at least the MH compound as the softer compound such as Rs with Soft compound or tires like the original Azenis (haven't run the new ones yet) or most street tires will get too greasy after 10-12 minutes of a session.
Like I said if you run the harder compounds you'll have a set of tires that last most of the season of HPDE, unless you are competing for big money it's not worth it to get the softer compound IMHO.
-mike
| Paisan | 07-04-2006 12:43 AM |
I see you are in Germany! Bastard now I understand! haaaaaaa
-mike
-mike
| Butt Dyno | 07-04-2006 12:48 AM |
[QUOTE=Paisan]I see you are in Germany! Bastard now I understand! haaaaaaa
-mike[/QUOTE]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=802406&highlight=ring[/url]
:D
-mike[/QUOTE]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=802406&highlight=ring[/url]
:D
| BIGSKYWRX | 07-04-2006 12:04 PM |
[QUOTE=Pete Holt]I picked up a set of the Advan A048's late last year for a track day in the same soft compound that comes on the Lotus Elise with the track pckg. I just use them for HPDE's and they work great. Very sticky and they wear pretty well. I am about half way through track days this year and I would say they probably have a little more than half life at this point. Kind of pricey, but I hear they wear better than Hoosiers.[/QUOTE]
Glad to hear this :) Mine are of yet still unmounted- I went w/ "soft" as a compromise autox/track tire- I figured the MH would never serve me well as a autox tire- just didn't know how the soft would serve me on the the track- sounds pretty good :banana:
Glad to hear this :) Mine are of yet still unmounted- I went w/ "soft" as a compromise autox/track tire- I figured the MH would never serve me well as a autox tire- just didn't know how the soft would serve me on the the track- sounds pretty good :banana:
| Paisan | 07-04-2006 05:24 PM |
[QUOTE=BIGSKYWRX]Glad to hear this :) Mine are of yet still unmounted- I went w/ "soft" as a compromise autox/track tire- I figured the MH would never serve me well as a autox tire- just didn't know how the soft would serve me on the the track- sounds pretty good :banana:[/QUOTE]
Post up your results with the S tire. So far I'm liking the MH but we'll see with 4 track days in the next 2 weekends coming up.
-mike
Post up your results with the S tire. So far I'm liking the MH but we'll see with 4 track days in the next 2 weekends coming up.
-mike
| alltracin | 07-08-2006 08:29 PM |
Is there anywhere cheaper than tirerack to pick up a set of 245/45/17 V710s or 245/40/17 A6s? Or maybe somewhere that still has some leftover AS305s? :devil:
| solo-x | 07-08-2006 10:35 PM |
[url=http://roadrace-autox.com/bbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1015&posts=1&start=1]here are some 245 hoosiers[/url]
| Paisan | 07-09-2006 12:00 AM |
Just did a full day on the A048Rs at Summit. Liking them a lot, not as grippy as the 710s, etc, however good feedback and the MH compound is wearing like a rock!
-mike
-mike
| mesa50w | 07-09-2006 01:05 AM |
[QUOTE=alltracin]Is there anywhere cheaper than tirerack to pick up a set of 245/45/17 V710s or 245/40/17 A6s? Or maybe somewhere that still has some leftover AS305s? :devil:[/QUOTE]
try the used parts section over @ soloforums.com. I picked up a set of unmounted 245/45/ v710's for 500 shipped :D
try the used parts section over @ soloforums.com. I picked up a set of unmounted 245/45/ v710's for 500 shipped :D
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