| cleanerPA | 03-08-2006 05:11 PM |
RE-070, RT-615 or RS2-Z212?
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I thought it would be best to post this in Motorsport because of the likelihood of people having experience with all 3 tires.
What are your opinions on how the OEM Bridgestone RE-070 compares to the Falken Azenis RT-615 and the Hankook RS2-Z212?
I've read the GRM reviews on the Falken and the Hankook, but considering that the RE-070 is an OEM tire, only Subaru owners would have significant experience with the tire.
This would be going on an '04 STi, currently stock. Because I don't use the car as a daily driver, I don't really care too much about noise levels and ride quality- IMHO, the RE-070 is pretty uncivilized as it is. If the Falken and the Hankook are similar in terms of tire noise and ride stiffness, that's liveable for me- if they're significantly worse, that's something to consider.
How does the wet/dry grip compare?
Thanks!
What are your opinions on how the OEM Bridgestone RE-070 compares to the Falken Azenis RT-615 and the Hankook RS2-Z212?
I've read the GRM reviews on the Falken and the Hankook, but considering that the RE-070 is an OEM tire, only Subaru owners would have significant experience with the tire.
This would be going on an '04 STi, currently stock. Because I don't use the car as a daily driver, I don't really care too much about noise levels and ride quality- IMHO, the RE-070 is pretty uncivilized as it is. If the Falken and the Hankook are similar in terms of tire noise and ride stiffness, that's liveable for me- if they're significantly worse, that's something to consider.
How does the wet/dry grip compare?
Thanks!
| WRXedUSA | 03-08-2006 05:36 PM |
A few local guys prefer the RE70's over the RT-615's. That's all I got.
| BlkWRXWag | 03-08-2006 05:37 PM |
What are you going to use the tire for?
| PKer | 03-08-2006 06:53 PM |
What size?
| REVNU | 03-08-2006 07:07 PM |
I have the Hankooks on my WRX and they are much quieter than my old Kumho MX. Dry grip is awesome (for the price), and wet traction is good from my experience. I live in SoCal so we don't get much rain, so I have limited driving time with them in the rain to give you an honest opinion of wet traction.
~REVNU
~REVNU
| PKer | 03-08-2006 07:12 PM |
I had no trouble in the rain on the freeway with shaved hankooks mounted backwards (directional).:lol:
| Skibum4444 | 03-08-2006 07:18 PM |
The 070 arnt worth your time. They are a nice tire but dont buy them new. If you want the best bargin get the Kooks. If you want the "Best" grip get the Falkens.
| mccanixx | 03-08-2006 07:21 PM |
[QUOTE=PKer]I had no trouble in the rain on the freeway with shaved hankooks mounted backwards (directional).:lol:[/QUOTE]
I've done the same damn thing. :eek:
Kooks, forward or backward for me.
I've done the same damn thing. :eek:
Kooks, forward or backward for me.
| cleanerPA | 03-08-2006 07:40 PM |
[QUOTE=BlkWRXWag]What are you going to use the tire for?[/QUOTE]
The tires will be used for mostly street, but some autox. Don't figure on any track time any time soon. :(
As for size, well the RE-070 is going to be 225/45R17, the Falken the same and the Hankook is taller, I think- 235/45?
The tires will be used for mostly street, but some autox. Don't figure on any track time any time soon. :(
As for size, well the RE-070 is going to be 225/45R17, the Falken the same and the Hankook is taller, I think- 235/45?
| cleanerPA | 03-08-2006 07:43 PM |
[QUOTE=Skibum4444]The 070 arnt worth your time. They are a nice tire but dont buy them new. If you want the best bargin get the Kooks. If you want the "Best" grip get the Falkens.[/QUOTE]
Both the Falken and the Hankook are cheaper than the RE-070 so I'm more concerned with which is the best tire. Why do you say the 070 is not worth my time?
So I guess the followup question would be do I need to look at the AD-07 and the RE-01R, the latter of which no one in the US has much experience with at all (April shipment according to Tire Rack)?
Both the Falken and the Hankook are cheaper than the RE-070 so I'm more concerned with which is the best tire. Why do you say the 070 is not worth my time?
So I guess the followup question would be do I need to look at the AD-07 and the RE-01R, the latter of which no one in the US has much experience with at all (April shipment according to Tire Rack)?
| WRXedUSA | 03-08-2006 08:41 PM |
If money is not an issue, my STi ESP/AS freinds say the RE-70's outperform the Falkens in the dry. Are RE70's worth 185/tire? No. Do I like them? Yes.
Sounds like you need a good street occasional autoX tire, might want to stick with the Kooks or the Falkens for the issue of price for performance.
Sounds like you need a good street occasional autoX tire, might want to stick with the Kooks or the Falkens for the issue of price for performance.
| grippgoat | 03-08-2006 09:24 PM |
I like RE070s. They have tons of dry grip, and I got 20k miles out of my first set, and the friend that took them has put probably another 10K+ on them. They do overheat a little too easily at the track, though. But I'd say that their grip + life makes them worth the price.
I have Z212s on my miata, and can vouch for them being a bit soft on the sidewall. Also, a lot of people seem to say the Z212 is sweet in the wet, but there's no doubt that STI+RE070 > Miata+Z212 in the wet.
I haven't tried RT-615s yet.
-Mike
I have Z212s on my miata, and can vouch for them being a bit soft on the sidewall. Also, a lot of people seem to say the Z212 is sweet in the wet, but there's no doubt that STI+RE070 > Miata+Z212 in the wet.
I haven't tried RT-615s yet.
-Mike
| lobelsteve | 03-08-2006 09:26 PM |
I've run all three for street and Auto-X. THe Hankooks give the best ride by far. I like the RE-070 for best grip, but both the Falken's and the Kooks do better with repeated laps than the RE-070's.
| kessler89 | 03-08-2006 09:32 PM |
i'm runnin re070's right now and so far i like them, but i'd never pay $189ea for them, i got mine off a fellow member barely used w/ 2k miles on em for $350shipped :banana: :p
| AndrewSS | 03-08-2006 10:49 PM |
yeah, if you want to continue with re070's get takeoffs its so CHEAP that way ! I got evo oem tires (yoko advan A046) for $340 for all 4 without much wear on them at all! I am getting them mounted this spring!
| trhoppe | 03-08-2006 10:56 PM |
RE070 - Great OEM tire, better then some other options, but a very small temperature range where they actually work, and not a lot of plain ol' lateral grip. Kinda the middle of the road.
615 - From what I have seen, personally only driven them, not autoxed them, they have the sameish grip as the 215 azenis, but a softer sidewall. They do have better heat resistance. They still have a stiffer sidewall then most other tires.
Z212 - Softer sidewall then the azenis, resulting in a better "street" ride, but also they are a tad less responsive on an autox course. They more then make up for this by having more ultimate lateral grip and having quite a bit more longitudonal grip, as well as better rain performance. We tested them back to back on my old 02 WRX to be 0.6 faster on a 30 sec course.
IMHO, Z212 > RE070/615
-Tom
615 - From what I have seen, personally only driven them, not autoxed them, they have the sameish grip as the 215 azenis, but a softer sidewall. They do have better heat resistance. They still have a stiffer sidewall then most other tires.
Z212 - Softer sidewall then the azenis, resulting in a better "street" ride, but also they are a tad less responsive on an autox course. They more then make up for this by having more ultimate lateral grip and having quite a bit more longitudonal grip, as well as better rain performance. We tested them back to back on my old 02 WRX to be 0.6 faster on a 30 sec course.
IMHO, Z212 > RE070/615
-Tom
| Snakebot | 03-08-2006 11:15 PM |
I've used all three on the street and for auto-x.
I would say the RE070 has the best grip. Steering response is also better on the 070. If you've ever looked at a 070 off of the wheel you would understand why. The sidewalls are easily the stiffest of the three tires. The tire tolerated heat about as well as the 615. My only complaint is that the only available size (225) is IMO too narrow for the STi. The car is much better with a 235 or 245 tire, yes you can fit both on the stock wheel.
The 615 is a close second. Grip is not as good as the 070. The sidwalls aren't as stiff so you loose a bit in steering response. Granted I've only used 245/45 615's so the additional width has a effect on steering response.
Grip with the Z212 is pretty good new but it quickly goes away once you get down to 3-4/32nds. I don't know if this was caused by heat cycling out the tire or if it was a compound issue. Ride quality was the best out of the three. The sidewalls are also the softest of the three so steering was not quite as sharp as the 615 in the same size. Also the tire liked a bit of heat in them before they reached max grip, kinda like the Kumo MXs.
IMO, the Hankooks are great value if you're looking for a stree tire and plan on doing occasional auto-x events.
I would go with the 615s for a dedicated auto-x tire.
The 070's win if they are ever available in 235/245 and I had the money burning a hole in my pocket.
I would say the RE070 has the best grip. Steering response is also better on the 070. If you've ever looked at a 070 off of the wheel you would understand why. The sidewalls are easily the stiffest of the three tires. The tire tolerated heat about as well as the 615. My only complaint is that the only available size (225) is IMO too narrow for the STi. The car is much better with a 235 or 245 tire, yes you can fit both on the stock wheel.
The 615 is a close second. Grip is not as good as the 070. The sidwalls aren't as stiff so you loose a bit in steering response. Granted I've only used 245/45 615's so the additional width has a effect on steering response.
Grip with the Z212 is pretty good new but it quickly goes away once you get down to 3-4/32nds. I don't know if this was caused by heat cycling out the tire or if it was a compound issue. Ride quality was the best out of the three. The sidewalls are also the softest of the three so steering was not quite as sharp as the 615 in the same size. Also the tire liked a bit of heat in them before they reached max grip, kinda like the Kumo MXs.
IMO, the Hankooks are great value if you're looking for a stree tire and plan on doing occasional auto-x events.
I would go with the 615s for a dedicated auto-x tire.
The 070's win if they are ever available in 235/245 and I had the money burning a hole in my pocket.
| trhoppe | 03-09-2006 10:23 AM |
:lol: :lol:
I just don't even know how to respond to the wrongness of this last post.
-Tom
I just don't even know how to respond to the wrongness of this last post.
-Tom
| BIGSKYWRX | 03-09-2006 10:41 AM |
I don't think anyone would argue the 070 is the "king" of sidewall stiffness (you need to step up to some of the R compounds to approach it). Wihout a doubt the big drawback of the 070 is size (for an STi- for wagon or older RS maybe not). Price isn't a concern, because no one is going to buy them new when they are available as takeoffs.
615 vs 212 isn't going to be "solved" here, several large camps of each contending they are the better tire- the two posts above prove this out. If wet grip is an issue the 212 does seem to have edge there. My guess is the 212 is lighter in almost all sizes if that is an issue.
I see the 615's have come down in price very closely approaching (if not reaching) the 212- that's good news.
The 01R should be interesting :)
615 vs 212 isn't going to be "solved" here, several large camps of each contending they are the better tire- the two posts above prove this out. If wet grip is an issue the 212 does seem to have edge there. My guess is the 212 is lighter in almost all sizes if that is an issue.
I see the 615's have come down in price very closely approaching (if not reaching) the 212- that's good news.
The 01R should be interesting :)
| cleanerPA | 03-09-2006 11:28 AM |
[QUOTE=Snakebot]I've used all three on the street and for auto-x.
I would say the RE070 has the best grip. Steering response is also better on the 070. If you've ever looked at a 070 off of the wheel you would understand why. The sidewalls are easily the stiffest of the three tires. The tire tolerated heat about as well as the 615. My only complaint is that the only available size (225) is IMO too narrow for the STi. The car is much better with a 235 or 245 tire, yes you can fit both on the stock wheel.
The 615 is a close second. Grip is not as good as the 070. The sidwalls aren't as stiff so you loose a bit in steering response. Granted I've only used 245/45 615's so the additional width has a effect on steering response.
[/QUOTE]
Your profile indicates you have a '04 STi- are you running 245/45R17 615s on your STi? What size wheel? 7.5"? 8"?
How is the gearing with those taller tires?
If I need to get wheels as well, then it's definitely going to get more expensive.
I wonder how the RE-01R comes into the equation......
I would say the RE070 has the best grip. Steering response is also better on the 070. If you've ever looked at a 070 off of the wheel you would understand why. The sidewalls are easily the stiffest of the three tires. The tire tolerated heat about as well as the 615. My only complaint is that the only available size (225) is IMO too narrow for the STi. The car is much better with a 235 or 245 tire, yes you can fit both on the stock wheel.
The 615 is a close second. Grip is not as good as the 070. The sidwalls aren't as stiff so you loose a bit in steering response. Granted I've only used 245/45 615's so the additional width has a effect on steering response.
[/QUOTE]
Your profile indicates you have a '04 STi- are you running 245/45R17 615s on your STi? What size wheel? 7.5"? 8"?
How is the gearing with those taller tires?
If I need to get wheels as well, then it's definitely going to get more expensive.
I wonder how the RE-01R comes into the equation......
| DrBiggly | 03-09-2006 01:29 PM |
[QUOTE=Snakebot]I've used all three on the street and for auto-x.
I would say the RE070 has the best grip. [/quote]
Only for a camber-challenged car would this be true. The reason for that is the sidewall design on the RE070 is unique to Bridgestone in that it compresses in a concave manner rather than folding under. Thus more of the contact patch is retained on a camber challenged car (stock Subaru anyone?) With proper camber, I wouldn't say it has the "best grip" as there is more than one area to look at (i.e. longitudinal vs. lateral.)
[quote]Grip with the Z212 is pretty good new but it quickly goes away once you get down to 3-4/32nds.I don't know if this was caused by heat cycling out the tire or if it was a compound issue. [/quote]
You killed them; they're done. Tom and I tried them full depth, then shaving and the shaved down to 3/32nds (they promised 4, we got 2-3 if one was being generous) they were quite a bit better. What you state is inconsistent with what most folks find with the Hankooks.
[quote]Ride quality was the best out of the three. The sidewalls are also the softest of the three so steering was not quite as sharp as the 615 in the same size. [/quote]
Correct, and of course these qualities really do go pretty well hand-in-hand.
[quote]Also the tire liked a bit of heat in them before they reached max grip, kinda like the Kumo MXs. [/quote]
Uh, no. Only if your ambient temp is below 40 degrees and at that point ANY tire needs a little heat. From 60 degrees on up they like being as cold as one can get. Low pressure and low temps gain huge rewards in grip, with the immediate tradeoff of course being in initial steering response. Your data is inconsistent with generally accepted practices for this tire.
-Biggly
I would say the RE070 has the best grip. [/quote]
Only for a camber-challenged car would this be true. The reason for that is the sidewall design on the RE070 is unique to Bridgestone in that it compresses in a concave manner rather than folding under. Thus more of the contact patch is retained on a camber challenged car (stock Subaru anyone?) With proper camber, I wouldn't say it has the "best grip" as there is more than one area to look at (i.e. longitudinal vs. lateral.)
[quote]Grip with the Z212 is pretty good new but it quickly goes away once you get down to 3-4/32nds.I don't know if this was caused by heat cycling out the tire or if it was a compound issue. [/quote]
You killed them; they're done. Tom and I tried them full depth, then shaving and the shaved down to 3/32nds (they promised 4, we got 2-3 if one was being generous) they were quite a bit better. What you state is inconsistent with what most folks find with the Hankooks.
[quote]Ride quality was the best out of the three. The sidewalls are also the softest of the three so steering was not quite as sharp as the 615 in the same size. [/quote]
Correct, and of course these qualities really do go pretty well hand-in-hand.
[quote]Also the tire liked a bit of heat in them before they reached max grip, kinda like the Kumo MXs. [/quote]
Uh, no. Only if your ambient temp is below 40 degrees and at that point ANY tire needs a little heat. From 60 degrees on up they like being as cold as one can get. Low pressure and low temps gain huge rewards in grip, with the immediate tradeoff of course being in initial steering response. Your data is inconsistent with generally accepted practices for this tire.
-Biggly
| driggity | 03-09-2006 01:37 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]We tested them back to back on my old 02 WRX to be 0.6 faster on a 30 sec course.
[/QUOTE]
Compared to what tire?
[/QUOTE]
Compared to what tire?
| suprajay | 03-09-2006 02:14 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]
-----------------
Quote from above
Grip with the Z212 is pretty good new but it quickly goes away once you get down to 3-4/32nds. I don't know if this was caused by heat cycling out the tire or if it was a compound issue. Ride quality was the best out of the three. The sidewalls are also the softest of the three so steering was not quite as sharp as the 615 in the same size. Also the tire liked a bit of heat in them before they reached max grip, kinda like the Kumo MXs.
----------------
You killed them; they're done. Tom and I tried them full depth, then shaving and the shaved down to 3/32nds (they promised 4, we got 2-3 if one was being generous) they were quite a bit better. What you state is inconsistent with what most folks find with the Hankooks.
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
I also ran all 3 tires (but 245/45 for Kooks/Azenis) and agree on the Kooks being done at 3-4/32's. Ran them here in AZ for about 6 months (few street miles) and early Feb AutoX was like being on ice. Tires were either heat cycled out or something else changed in the compound. I promptly removed and now run the 615's, which now are competitively priced with the Kooks. No experience in rain since. For mostly street and "some AutoX" - go with 245/45 Kooks. I have them on my street car and like them for ride quality, price and performance. If you like the Re070's (225/45 only) and can find take offs for cheap, they are really a good tire and you will get more street miles from them.
Jay B in AZ
-----------------
Quote from above
Grip with the Z212 is pretty good new but it quickly goes away once you get down to 3-4/32nds. I don't know if this was caused by heat cycling out the tire or if it was a compound issue. Ride quality was the best out of the three. The sidewalls are also the softest of the three so steering was not quite as sharp as the 615 in the same size. Also the tire liked a bit of heat in them before they reached max grip, kinda like the Kumo MXs.
----------------
You killed them; they're done. Tom and I tried them full depth, then shaving and the shaved down to 3/32nds (they promised 4, we got 2-3 if one was being generous) they were quite a bit better. What you state is inconsistent with what most folks find with the Hankooks.
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
I also ran all 3 tires (but 245/45 for Kooks/Azenis) and agree on the Kooks being done at 3-4/32's. Ran them here in AZ for about 6 months (few street miles) and early Feb AutoX was like being on ice. Tires were either heat cycled out or something else changed in the compound. I promptly removed and now run the 615's, which now are competitively priced with the Kooks. No experience in rain since. For mostly street and "some AutoX" - go with 245/45 Kooks. I have them on my street car and like them for ride quality, price and performance. If you like the Re070's (225/45 only) and can find take offs for cheap, they are really a good tire and you will get more street miles from them.
Jay B in AZ
| jcroy66 | 03-09-2006 02:48 PM |
[QUOTE=suprajay]Ran them here in AZ for about 6 months (few street miles) and early Feb AutoX was like being on ice.[/QUOTE]If it had been here in Ohio, that would have been because an early Feb AutoX [b][u]would be[/u][/b] on ice... :lol:
| DrBiggly | 03-09-2006 02:51 PM |
[QUOTE=suprajay]I also ran all 3 tires (but 245/45 for Kooks/Azenis) and agree on the Kooks being done at 3-4/32's. Ran them here in AZ for about 6 months (few street miles) and early Feb AutoX was like being on ice. Tires were either heat cycled out or something else changed in the compound. I promptly removed and now run the 615's, which now are competitively priced with the Kooks. No experience in rain since. For mostly street and "some AutoX" - go with 245/45 Kooks. I have them on my street car and like them for ride quality, price and performance. If you like the Re070's (225/45 only) and can find take offs for cheap, they are really a good tire and you will get more street miles from them.
Jay B in AZ[/QUOTE]
I've run my Kooks, which are at about 1/32nd by the way, at two events already this year. Ambient temps didn't get over 50 degrees at the hottest parts of the day and they held on quite well. Like I mentioned before, if it's below that outside basically no tire grips but so well as it is never quite "getting up to temp." I didn't go into these events with the pretense of an unreasonable expectation of grip in those sorts of temperatures. :)
-Biggly
Jay B in AZ[/QUOTE]
I've run my Kooks, which are at about 1/32nd by the way, at two events already this year. Ambient temps didn't get over 50 degrees at the hottest parts of the day and they held on quite well. Like I mentioned before, if it's below that outside basically no tire grips but so well as it is never quite "getting up to temp." I didn't go into these events with the pretense of an unreasonable expectation of grip in those sorts of temperatures. :)
-Biggly
| suprajay | 03-09-2006 04:00 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]I've run my Kooks, which are at about 1/32nd by the way, at two events already this year. Ambient temps didn't get over 50 degrees at the hottest parts of the day and they held on quite well. Like I mentioned before, if it's below that outside basically no tire grips but so well as it is never quite "getting up to temp." I didn't go into these events with the pretense of an unreasonable expectation of grip in those sorts of temperatures. :)
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
Fortunately for us in AZ, Feb was a beautiful mid 70's day, but not sure of ground temps. Mine must have been heat cycled out since previous to this event, they were predictable and gripped 'well'. I do have to agree with GRM on the Kooks straight line braking grip. ABS kicked in much more when going to the Kooks from RE070's (on a variety of surfaces) and now that I ran the SD Tour on the 615's with limited ABS usage, I can certainly say the Kooks are not as good as the other 2 in longitudinal grip. YMMV.. Jay B
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
Fortunately for us in AZ, Feb was a beautiful mid 70's day, but not sure of ground temps. Mine must have been heat cycled out since previous to this event, they were predictable and gripped 'well'. I do have to agree with GRM on the Kooks straight line braking grip. ABS kicked in much more when going to the Kooks from RE070's (on a variety of surfaces) and now that I ran the SD Tour on the 615's with limited ABS usage, I can certainly say the Kooks are not as good as the other 2 in longitudinal grip. YMMV.. Jay B
| trhoppe | 03-09-2006 04:22 PM |
You guys are either driving some wierd z212 tires or something else is different, as your experiences are COMPLETELY different then what we felt on the tires, as well as corey ridgick and andy hollis.
-Tom
-Tom
| aschen | 03-09-2006 05:04 PM |
Im a frequent but not good autocrosser...so take what i say with a grain of salt. I much prefered the 2 sets of re70s i had over the current 'kooks I have. I have the hankooks is 245/45 so mabey that is a tall sidewall for that tire. Since I am not too concerned with FTD i value driving pleasure and the steering responce and turn in feel of the re70s is much superior to the taller kooks. Which tire is capable of a faster time, I am not qualified to say....
| sciolist | 03-09-2006 05:26 PM |
How about if only wet performance is considered?
| endeavor | 03-09-2006 05:40 PM |
Are those of you that prefer the RE070 on stock front suspension? If so Biggly's comments about the RE070's sidewall design probably explain why you have better results with that tire.
| DrBiggly | 03-09-2006 05:42 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]You guys are either driving some wierd z212 tires or something else is different, as your experiences are COMPLETELY different then what we felt on the tires, as well as corey ridgick and andy hollis.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Word.
-Biggly
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Word.
-Biggly
| Shavenyak | 03-09-2006 10:11 PM |
[QUOTE=suprajay]I also ran all 3 tires (but 245/45 for Kooks/Azenis) and agree on the Kooks being done at 3-4/32's. Ran them here in AZ for about 6 months (few street miles) and early Feb AutoX was like being on ice. Tires were either heat cycled out or something else changed in the compound. I promptly removed and now run the 615's, which now are competitively priced with the Kooks. No experience in rain since. For mostly street and "some AutoX" - go with 245/45 Kooks. I have them on my street car and like them for ride quality, price and performance. If you like the Re070's (225/45 only) and can find take offs for cheap, they are really a good tire and you will get more street miles from them.
Jay B in AZ[/QUOTE]
Hey, Jay, I think I was in the paddock next to you for the tour in SD last weekend. Roman with the blue STI. Are you going to the Pro Solo this weekend?
--Roman
Jay B in AZ[/QUOTE]
Hey, Jay, I think I was in the paddock next to you for the tour in SD last weekend. Roman with the blue STI. Are you going to the Pro Solo this weekend?
--Roman
| suprajay | 03-09-2006 11:55 PM |
[QUOTE=SCOOBY-RU]Hey, Jay, I think I was in the paddock next to you for the tour in SD last weekend. Roman with the blue STI. Are you going to the Pro Solo this weekend?
--Roman[/QUOTE]
I'll be there..We are back in one of the largest classes.. STU. Maybe the wet course will help us vs the M3's that went so fast in SD. As far as I can see, SoCAL has some great venues. See you tomorrow. Jay B from AZ
--Roman[/QUOTE]
I'll be there..We are back in one of the largest classes.. STU. Maybe the wet course will help us vs the M3's that went so fast in SD. As far as I can see, SoCAL has some great venues. See you tomorrow. Jay B from AZ
| jamesohoh7 | 03-10-2006 08:56 AM |
[QUOTE=endeavor]Are those of you that prefer the RE070 on stock front suspension? If so Biggly's comments about the RE070's sidewall design probably explain why you have better results with that tire.[/QUOTE]
+1 .. I've only autox'ed on my 070's a few times (they're my street tires, so I am trying not to kill them), but my car is largely stock (just f/r sways) and for sure, the stiff sidewalls made all the difference.
So, yeah, camber-challenged... the 070's felt great, I think Biggly's on to it.
I've run z212's and now I'm on 615's (had to see what they're like).
A complete comparison is not possible for me b/c my 'kooks were 225's and my 615s are 245's ('kooks started out on my '04 WRX.. didn't want to roll the fenders).
In general (and this is probably an obvious comment to 'the hard core', but I'm making it more for the 'average joes') I think the 'kooks throw some people off b/c they're a different 'solution' than rt215's were. They probably force setup (and maybe driving style) changes if you are/were deeply committed to another tire already. Having no 'setup' in my mostly stock car, I can't comment directly... just my hunch... and going from some comments I've heard in grid from folks who've switched to them... "I'm trying to find a setup that works for these... you ran them, what'd you do?" .. that kind of stuff.
+1 .. I've only autox'ed on my 070's a few times (they're my street tires, so I am trying not to kill them), but my car is largely stock (just f/r sways) and for sure, the stiff sidewalls made all the difference.
So, yeah, camber-challenged... the 070's felt great, I think Biggly's on to it.
I've run z212's and now I'm on 615's (had to see what they're like).
A complete comparison is not possible for me b/c my 'kooks were 225's and my 615s are 245's ('kooks started out on my '04 WRX.. didn't want to roll the fenders).
In general (and this is probably an obvious comment to 'the hard core', but I'm making it more for the 'average joes') I think the 'kooks throw some people off b/c they're a different 'solution' than rt215's were. They probably force setup (and maybe driving style) changes if you are/were deeply committed to another tire already. Having no 'setup' in my mostly stock car, I can't comment directly... just my hunch... and going from some comments I've heard in grid from folks who've switched to them... "I'm trying to find a setup that works for these... you ran them, what'd you do?" .. that kind of stuff.
| WRXedUSA | 03-10-2006 10:22 AM |
[QUOTE=endeavor]Are those of you that prefer the RE070 on stock front suspension? If so Biggly's comments about the RE070's sidewall design probably explain why you have better results with that tire.[/QUOTE]
Considering that most of us that are probably still running the stock tire in AS, I would say 'yes'.
Considering that most of us that are probably still running the stock tire in AS, I would say 'yes'.
| TubeDriver | 03-10-2006 10:35 AM |
Index is better in STU than in AS. Even if you are completely stock (and with 070s), you are better off registering in STU.
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]Considering that most of us that are probably still running the stock tire in AS, I would say 'yes'.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]Considering that most of us that are probably still running the stock tire in AS, I would say 'yes'.[/QUOTE]
| kessler89 | 03-10-2006 11:03 AM |
[QUOTE=endeavor]Are those of you that prefer the RE070 on stock front suspension? If so Biggly's comments about the RE070's sidewall design probably explain why you have better results with that tire.[/QUOTE]
i'm running these on my wrx, tein h techs,front/rear strut bars, and soon to have rsb, but i haven't autox'd them yet, i'm also running as much neg. camber i can with the stock bolts in the front (-1deg) on the street they feel golden but i havent ran any other tires in this size
i'm running these on my wrx, tein h techs,front/rear strut bars, and soon to have rsb, but i haven't autox'd them yet, i'm also running as much neg. camber i can with the stock bolts in the front (-1deg) on the street they feel golden but i havent ran any other tires in this size
| WRXedUSA | 03-10-2006 11:37 AM |
[QUOTE=TubeDriver]Index is better in STU than in AS. Even if you are completely stock (and with 070s), you are better off registering in STU.[/QUOTE]
[U]Street Touring Ultra [/U]
1 04 Subaru WRX STi Black 48.436 +1 47.772 +1 47.352 +1 DNF [B]49.352 best [/B] 40.370 (27)
2 04 Subaru WRX Blue 52.611 51.682 50.776 60.041 50.776 +1.424 41.535 (47)
3 BMW M3 Silver DNF 55.483 54.593 54.073
[U]A Stock [/U]
1 Honda S200047.796 46.930 47.054 47.429 46.930 38.858 (10)
2 Honda S2000 Silver 48.202 46.943 51.995 +1 60.528 46.943 +0.013 38.869 (11)
3 Corvette Light Blue 48.364 46.979 47.063 47.266 46.979 +0.036 38.899 (12)
4 BMW M3 Blue 51.520 50.028 49.738 49.006 49.006 +2.027 40.577 (29)
5 Porsche Boxster S Silver 49.876 49.160 48.417 +1 48.297 +2 49.160 +0.154 40.704 (33)
6 Subaru WRX STi White 53.973 51.425 +1 52.424 51.105 [B]51.105 best[/B] +1.945 42.315 (59) [B]((((((me))))))[/B]
PAX placement in parentheses
You do have a very good point, I never thought about that. But I guess my goals are winning class, not highest index.
[U]Street Touring Ultra [/U]
1 04 Subaru WRX STi Black 48.436 +1 47.772 +1 47.352 +1 DNF [B]49.352 best [/B] 40.370 (27)
2 04 Subaru WRX Blue 52.611 51.682 50.776 60.041 50.776 +1.424 41.535 (47)
3 BMW M3 Silver DNF 55.483 54.593 54.073
[U]A Stock [/U]
1 Honda S200047.796 46.930 47.054 47.429 46.930 38.858 (10)
2 Honda S2000 Silver 48.202 46.943 51.995 +1 60.528 46.943 +0.013 38.869 (11)
3 Corvette Light Blue 48.364 46.979 47.063 47.266 46.979 +0.036 38.899 (12)
4 BMW M3 Blue 51.520 50.028 49.738 49.006 49.006 +2.027 40.577 (29)
5 Porsche Boxster S Silver 49.876 49.160 48.417 +1 48.297 +2 49.160 +0.154 40.704 (33)
6 Subaru WRX STi White 53.973 51.425 +1 52.424 51.105 [B]51.105 best[/B] +1.945 42.315 (59) [B]((((((me))))))[/B]
PAX placement in parentheses
You do have a very good point, I never thought about that. But I guess my goals are winning class, not highest index.
| jcroy66 | 03-10-2006 11:59 AM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA][u]Street Touring Ultra [/u]
1 04 Subaru WRX STi Black 48.436 +1 47.772 +1 47.352 +1 DNF [b][color=Red]49.352[/color] best [/b] 40.370 (27)
[u]A Stock [/u]
1 Honda S200047.796 46.930 47.054 47.429 [b][color=Red]46.930[/color][/b] [color=Black]38.858[/color] (10)
6 Subaru WRX STi White 53.973 51.425 +1 52.424 51.105 [b]51.105 best[/b] +1.945 42.315 (59) [b]((((((me))))))[/b]
You do have a very good point, I never thought about that. But I guess my goals are winning class, not highest index.[/QUOTE]
Looks to me like you'd have a better shot at winning class in STU too...
Edit: I realized I was highlighting the PAX-adjusted time. The point still stands though. :)
1 04 Subaru WRX STi Black 48.436 +1 47.772 +1 47.352 +1 DNF [b][color=Red]49.352[/color] best [/b] 40.370 (27)
[u]A Stock [/u]
1 Honda S200047.796 46.930 47.054 47.429 [b][color=Red]46.930[/color][/b] [color=Black]38.858[/color] (10)
6 Subaru WRX STi White 53.973 51.425 +1 52.424 51.105 [b]51.105 best[/b] +1.945 42.315 (59) [b]((((((me))))))[/b]
You do have a very good point, I never thought about that. But I guess my goals are winning class, not highest index.[/QUOTE]
Looks to me like you'd have a better shot at winning class in STU too...
Edit: I realized I was highlighting the PAX-adjusted time. The point still stands though. :)
| WRXedUSA | 03-10-2006 12:04 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]Looks to me like you'd have a better shot at winning class in STU too...[/QUOTE]
<lightbulbgoesoffinhead>
:surpressesthemoddingdisease:
:)
<lightbulbgoesoffinhead>
:surpressesthemoddingdisease:
:)
| silver arrow | 03-10-2006 12:21 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]Looks to me like you'd have a better shot at winning class in STU too...[/QUOTE]
+1000000000000000000000000000000
STU is best home for stock STi on stock rubber.
+1000000000000000000000000000000
STU is best home for stock STi on stock rubber.
| AndrewSS | 03-10-2006 12:25 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]<lightbulbgoesoffinhead>
:surpressesthemoddingdisease:
:)[/QUOTE]
LOL, I second that - sure I would love to more to STU and whatnot, but hey here in AS im saving some of that $$$ :lol: :banana:
:surpressesthemoddingdisease:
:)[/QUOTE]
LOL, I second that - sure I would love to more to STU and whatnot, but hey here in AS im saving some of that $$$ :lol: :banana:
| WRXedUSA | 03-10-2006 01:18 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]Looks to me like you'd have a better shot at winning class in STU too...
Edit: I realized I was highlighting the PAX-adjusted time. The point still stands though. :)[/QUOTE]
Well, if the data is warped, it's because the STU STi is the 2005 Natl Champion STU winner.
Quickly, while we are on subject. I can go stock in STU then huh?
Edit: I realized I was highlighting the PAX-adjusted time. The point still stands though. :)[/QUOTE]
Well, if the data is warped, it's because the STU STi is the 2005 Natl Champion STU winner.
Quickly, while we are on subject. I can go stock in STU then huh?
| D_REX | 03-10-2006 01:46 PM |
ummm, you can always be underprepared for a class. A stock STi is legal for AS, STU, BSP and some ungodly prepared and modified class.
| wm07 | 03-10-2006 01:56 PM |
If you are asking if a stock STi is competitive in STU, I would say yes, at least on local level, but may be not at National level.
| WRXedUSA | 03-10-2006 02:38 PM |
[QUOTE=wm07]If you are asking if a stock STi is competitive in STU, I would say yes, at least on local level, but may be not at National level.[/QUOTE]
My times I posted before were in the Kansas City Region. That is pretty competitive.
I only go regional, so that doenst matter to me.
Thank you for your input.
My times I posted before were in the Kansas City Region. That is pretty competitive.
I only go regional, so that doenst matter to me.
Thank you for your input.
| jcroy66 | 03-10-2006 02:41 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]Well, if the data is warped, it's because the STU STi is the 2005 Natl Champion STU winner.[/QUOTE]Umm, actually my point was that your local STU class didn't seem to be living up to its potential, given that it was 2.4 seconds slower than AS. If the winning STi had kept it clean, he would have been almost half a second slower than AS. Which is at least respectable. But would he have still been able to drive the course just as fast if he kept it clean?? That's question 1. Question 2 is the winning AS driver a National-trophying driver or just a local hotshoe?
My original post was without knowing the drivers or cars. And based on the results vs AS, I'd just assumed that the local STU field was like most places - very underprepped cars, that are in STU because they just happen to have a few mods that stick them in STU and/or drivers who don't want R-compounds.
My original post was without knowing the drivers or cars. And based on the results vs AS, I'd just assumed that the local STU field was like most places - very underprepped cars, that are in STU because they just happen to have a few mods that stick them in STU and/or drivers who don't want R-compounds.
| WRXedUSA | 03-10-2006 03:38 PM |
[url]http://www.kcrscca.org/solo/results/2005/20051009-kcrscca-7-results.htm[/url]
Question #1:
The STU STi's is 3.6 seconds faster (and more well prepped). That was less the cone. There are not many cars, but a few very fast drivers.
Question #2:
Local hotshoe and a S2K driver.
Question #1:
The STU STi's is 3.6 seconds faster (and more well prepped). That was less the cone. There are not many cars, but a few very fast drivers.
Question #2:
Local hotshoe and a S2K driver.
| jcroy66 | 03-10-2006 04:23 PM |
Sorry, my question 1 was rhetorical - "could Branden have driven as fast on a clean run as he did on his dirty runs, or was his raw time that fast because he was shortening the course?"
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