| STi-ll chillin' | 12-07-2003 08:41 PM |
Roll cages/bars
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I want to look into options for putting a roll cage/bar in my car. The less I have to cut the car or weld to the car the better. And yes, I know there are 'bolt-in' cages, but are these really as strong?
I'm not wanting a full-on cage inside the cabin, but one that is easy to mount harnesses on would be nice................ :eek:
Who knows suppliers, or is this a custom job from the start?
I'm not wanting a full-on cage inside the cabin, but one that is easy to mount harnesses on would be nice................ :eek:
Who knows suppliers, or is this a custom job from the start?
| Snowphun | 12-07-2003 10:56 PM |
So what exactly do you want: a rollbar, a harness bar or a cage? If it's just for harnesses, you can get a bar that attaches to both B pillars going behind the front seats. Anything more than that and you're in for cutting and reducing street driveability of the vehicle.
Paul
Paul
| Pakin | 12-07-2003 11:55 PM |
Not to mention safety, most important of all.
[quote]I want to look into options for putting a roll cage/bar in my car........I'm not wanting a full-on cage inside the cabin...[/quote]
You said you wanted a full cage and then not :confused:. I'll assume you want a cage.
Unless your using this mostly for motorsport use, I don't see a point putting in a "cage".
Just to inform you, a harness (assuming you going for the 4/5 points) will prevent you from ducking or doing other motions during/before an accident. For example, you are about to slide under a semi-truck. You must duck below the windshield, but you can't. There goes half of you. ;) The same goes for rollover accidents.
So now you need a rollcage to accomodate these harness functions. But wait, during some potential accidents your head might jar either way. In result, you'll smash your head into one of these metal pipes. No matter how much padding, the head clearance has been reduced and what lies underneath the padding is something harder than the ajoining a pillar of plastics and fabric. You'd be amazed how much your neck can stretch during impact.
So what next? Ah yes a helmet. You must wear one all day to get that rally feel everyday. :D
But yes people still do "just the harness" thing and every takes a risk. It's up to you to decide.
If you do happen to get one. A bolt up one will offer a degree of protection, but not a sufficient amount.
Most good cages are indeed a custom job from the start. Unless you have some welding times, it's better to order from a local supplier which I would point you to your local forum and ask.
-paK +2
[quote]I want to look into options for putting a roll cage/bar in my car........I'm not wanting a full-on cage inside the cabin...[/quote]
You said you wanted a full cage and then not :confused:. I'll assume you want a cage.
Unless your using this mostly for motorsport use, I don't see a point putting in a "cage".
Just to inform you, a harness (assuming you going for the 4/5 points) will prevent you from ducking or doing other motions during/before an accident. For example, you are about to slide under a semi-truck. You must duck below the windshield, but you can't. There goes half of you. ;) The same goes for rollover accidents.
So now you need a rollcage to accomodate these harness functions. But wait, during some potential accidents your head might jar either way. In result, you'll smash your head into one of these metal pipes. No matter how much padding, the head clearance has been reduced and what lies underneath the padding is something harder than the ajoining a pillar of plastics and fabric. You'd be amazed how much your neck can stretch during impact.
So what next? Ah yes a helmet. You must wear one all day to get that rally feel everyday. :D
But yes people still do "just the harness" thing and every takes a risk. It's up to you to decide.
If you do happen to get one. A bolt up one will offer a degree of protection, but not a sufficient amount.
Most good cages are indeed a custom job from the start. Unless you have some welding times, it's better to order from a local supplier which I would point you to your local forum and ask.
-paK +2
| 944 turbo guy | 12-08-2003 11:31 AM |
ROLLCAGE ISSUES.....
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FORGIVE ME,..BUT NO ONE HAS MENTIONED OR ASKED,.WHAT YOU'RE USING THE CAR FOR,..ROAD RACING, AUTOCROSSING,.OR JUST DRIVERS ED EVENTS. THIS REALLY MATTERS,...I CALL IT THE "DO IT ONE TIME THEORY" MY CAGE IN THE PORSCHE WAS BUILT LEGAL FOR SCCA,IMSA,NASA AND EMRA. I HAVE SEEN ALOT OF MY STUDENTS BUY A "OK" CAGE AND HAVE TO MODIFY IT SO MUCH THAT IS WASNT COST EFECTIVE.
I HAVE ALSO SEEN AUTOPOWER CAGES ( THAT ARE BOLTED ONLY TO THE FLOOR) POKE THROUGH AFTER 3 ROLL OVERS,......MOST GOOD BOLT IN CAGES BOLT TO THE SIDE OF THE FRAME RAILS.
WHAT EVER YOU DO WHEN YOU RE' CHOOSING CAGES,.DONT SKIMP ON QUALITY,.THE CAGE IS WHAT SAVES YOU!!
944 TURBO GUY
PS. GO TO SOME RACES AND LOOK AT CAGE QUALITY AND BUILD TECH.
...JUST MY .02 CENTS WORTH..
I HAVE ALSO SEEN AUTOPOWER CAGES ( THAT ARE BOLTED ONLY TO THE FLOOR) POKE THROUGH AFTER 3 ROLL OVERS,......MOST GOOD BOLT IN CAGES BOLT TO THE SIDE OF THE FRAME RAILS.
WHAT EVER YOU DO WHEN YOU RE' CHOOSING CAGES,.DONT SKIMP ON QUALITY,.THE CAGE IS WHAT SAVES YOU!!
944 TURBO GUY
PS. GO TO SOME RACES AND LOOK AT CAGE QUALITY AND BUILD TECH.
...JUST MY .02 CENTS WORTH..
| 02R6 | 12-08-2003 11:52 AM |
Turn your caps lock off, newbie.
| Swano | 12-08-2003 12:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 02R6[/i]
[B] Turn your caps lock off, newbie. [/B][/QUOTE]
Loose the attitude man.
BTW nice contribution to the post!
I would get a full cage too.
Just a harness bar is too dangerous.
I found this thread with the search function, but being in the Dress-up section I guess roll cage is not exactly what you need! :lol:
Phil =)
[B] Turn your caps lock off, newbie. [/B][/QUOTE]
Loose the attitude man.
BTW nice contribution to the post!
I would get a full cage too.
Just a harness bar is too dangerous.
I found this thread with the search function, but being in the Dress-up section I guess roll cage is not exactly what you need! :lol:
Phil =)
| Capt Crunch | 12-08-2003 12:51 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 02R6[/i]
[B] Turn your caps lock off, newbie. [/B][/QUOTE]
While the caps are a bit goofy, Myles (944 turbo guy) is probably more experienced in motorsports than you will ever be. He has some good points.
[B] Turn your caps lock off, newbie. [/B][/QUOTE]
While the caps are a bit goofy, Myles (944 turbo guy) is probably more experienced in motorsports than you will ever be. He has some good points.
| 944 turbo guy | 12-08-2003 12:51 PM |
SORRY I AM AT WORK,....THIS COMPUTER SUCKS----YOU REMIND OF MY WIFE WITH THE ATTENTION TO HOW I AM SAYING WHAT I AM SAYING INSTEAD OF THE CONTENT,.......LIKE GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THE MACK TRUCK COMING------------
944TG
944TG
| 944 turbo guy | 12-08-2003 12:56 PM |
THANKS CAP-EM CRUNCH,..I 99% OF THE TIME TRY TO BE HELPFUL,.....E-V-E-R-Y NOW AND THEN I DRINK 3 BEERS AND START A STUPID THREAD,....THIS TIME HOWEVER I AM TRYING TO HELP SOMEONE WHO IS SMART ENOUGH TO REALIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ULTIMATE "WHAT IF" SAFETY NET....
944 TURBO GUY
AKA ----MR BIG CAPS @ WORK....
PSS. thank you very much!!!!!!:banana:
944 TURBO GUY
AKA ----MR BIG CAPS @ WORK....
PSS. thank you very much!!!!!!:banana:
| STi-ll chillin' | 12-08-2003 01:06 PM |
WHY HAS THIS POST BEEN MOVED TO DRESS UP/STYLE?????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!
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HELLO MR. MODERATOR - This is a serious post :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious:
PLEASE put it back in the General section. I'm trying to get some good input on roll cages and/or bars.
PLEASE put it back in the General section. I'm trying to get some good input on roll cages and/or bars.
| STi-ll chillin' | 12-08-2003 01:16 PM |
Lets keep this discussion going
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Yes, I do plan to do some racing, like Track Day events, quarter mile runs, maybe auto-crossing.
Yes, I do also want the roll bar/cage to 'look good' too, of course, come on...........
I do not want a full-on cage inside my car, it doesn't warrant that.
I have been using the term(s) roll bar/cage because I wanted everyone to pipe-in with their input.
Seems like a few of you guys really feel that 4-5 point harnesses are actually dangerous for the street (Pakin), is this true?
I'm leaning toward a single roll bar behind the front seats with support bars going to the front and rear on either side. BUT I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ROLL BARS/CAGES. Please educate me.
944 turbo - what do you think?
Yes, I do also want the roll bar/cage to 'look good' too, of course, come on...........
I do not want a full-on cage inside my car, it doesn't warrant that.
I have been using the term(s) roll bar/cage because I wanted everyone to pipe-in with their input.
Seems like a few of you guys really feel that 4-5 point harnesses are actually dangerous for the street (Pakin), is this true?
I'm leaning toward a single roll bar behind the front seats with support bars going to the front and rear on either side. BUT I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ROLL BARS/CAGES. Please educate me.
944 turbo - what do you think?
| Snowphun | 12-08-2003 01:40 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Swano [/i]
[B]
I would get a full cage too.
Just a harness bar is too dangerous.
[/B][/QUOTE]
:huh: How is a harness bar too dangerous and a full cage less so? A harness bar will not interfere with street driving, which it sounds like this car will still be doing almost all of the time. A full cage will involve padded bars and would really require full time helmet wearing to not be a liability. Not to mention cutting the dash and making ingress/egress a real PITA.
Paul
[B]
I would get a full cage too.
Just a harness bar is too dangerous.
[/B][/QUOTE]
:huh: How is a harness bar too dangerous and a full cage less so? A harness bar will not interfere with street driving, which it sounds like this car will still be doing almost all of the time. A full cage will involve padded bars and would really require full time helmet wearing to not be a liability. Not to mention cutting the dash and making ingress/egress a real PITA.
Paul
| STi-ll chillin' | 12-08-2003 02:07 PM |
The car is NOT a daily driver.
It is driven on the street.
It is driven on the street.
| 944 turbo guy | 12-08-2003 02:11 PM |
HARNESS BARS.........
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to answer the question,...yes a back half roll bar would suffice,...it should have a cross bar to really be effective.
The safety issue with a harness bar is that in a situation where you back into a wall,..trust me it happens,.....the top of the seat will bend under the harness bar, basically taking your head with it. For this reason,.Porsche club to IMSA, all require a seat brace with the cage to support the seat. Brey Krause makes a nice one,.some people make their own.
For what you're going to be doing, a back half cage will be fine,..just dont skimp on WHO puts it in,..and make sure you get good belts,..like SABELT or WILLIANS,......AND make sure the attachment is good,...like I said go to a pro race and walk through the paddock and take pictures, and learn.
944 turbo guy
ps,....keep in mind most full cage kits weight 100-145 lbs depending on diameter and wall thickness,.both of which are determined by overall car weight. So yes a back half will easily weigh 85lbs,....but before you freak out over weight,..keep in mind it will be the investment that saves your life,....in a worst case scenario.........lets hope not..:)
The safety issue with a harness bar is that in a situation where you back into a wall,..trust me it happens,.....the top of the seat will bend under the harness bar, basically taking your head with it. For this reason,.Porsche club to IMSA, all require a seat brace with the cage to support the seat. Brey Krause makes a nice one,.some people make their own.
For what you're going to be doing, a back half cage will be fine,..just dont skimp on WHO puts it in,..and make sure you get good belts,..like SABELT or WILLIANS,......AND make sure the attachment is good,...like I said go to a pro race and walk through the paddock and take pictures, and learn.
944 turbo guy
ps,....keep in mind most full cage kits weight 100-145 lbs depending on diameter and wall thickness,.both of which are determined by overall car weight. So yes a back half will easily weigh 85lbs,....but before you freak out over weight,..keep in mind it will be the investment that saves your life,....in a worst case scenario.........lets hope not..:)
| Subie Gal | 12-08-2003 02:23 PM |
sounds like all you'd want/need is a harness bar.
you do not want a roll cage.
a "real" roll cage = cutting up the interior
dash, door panels, headliner, and more
would need to be cut in order to properly fit a roll cage.
get a nice harness bar.....
that should more than suffice.
fwiw... most "bolt in" cages still require
interior modification, otherwise they will look like arse.
not seen a 'bolt in' (show car cage) that looked good... ever.
cage photos on my WRX can be seen here:
[url]http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/wrx%20wagon/final%20preparations/final%20preparation.htm[/url]
[img]http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/wrx%20wagon/final%20preparations/painted1.jpg[/img]
sure you'd wanna do that to a street car? :huh:
i really do think that a NICE harness bar is the best
solution for you....
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
you do not want a roll cage.
a "real" roll cage = cutting up the interior
dash, door panels, headliner, and more
would need to be cut in order to properly fit a roll cage.
get a nice harness bar.....
that should more than suffice.
fwiw... most "bolt in" cages still require
interior modification, otherwise they will look like arse.
not seen a 'bolt in' (show car cage) that looked good... ever.
cage photos on my WRX can be seen here:
[url]http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/wrx%20wagon/final%20preparations/final%20preparation.htm[/url]
[img]http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/wrx%20wagon/final%20preparations/painted1.jpg[/img]
sure you'd wanna do that to a street car? :huh:
i really do think that a NICE harness bar is the best
solution for you....
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
| 944 turbo guy | 12-08-2003 02:50 PM |
If you're gonna do some driver ed events,..say your prayers you dont roll it,...cause a harness bar aint gonna do jack----- if you roll it. I have seen exactly 4 WRX's roll @ drivers ed events,........
If a person is ONLY gonna autocross,..fine,..but if you intend to take it on a track,....a capable car like a WRX can obtain some good speed,....perhaps one needs to think about safety BEYOND a harness bar.
Did I used to drive my car to the track and risk it,...?...yes ,..but man,.if you get it wrong,...it could be your life.
FYI:..when you roll over 1 time it feels like its taking F-O-R-E-V-E-R
everything slows down and gets quiet,.then as you come to a stop,..and the windshield is out,..passenger seat is very close to you,..the sound starts coming back,....people are looking at you funny,..or maybe you're still by yourself,...waiting for the safety truck,...........
Look just tajke it easy,..go 6/10 on the track and take SubiegalS advise,.....but if you're like alot of us,.who cant go 6/10 th,......if you're at that stage where it may become a track only car,..and still have tags on it,...make the big(smart) step and get a cage.
944 turbo guy
ps. I lost a good friend in a 2.5 RS (dead) at a drivers ed event.
If a person is ONLY gonna autocross,..fine,..but if you intend to take it on a track,....a capable car like a WRX can obtain some good speed,....perhaps one needs to think about safety BEYOND a harness bar.
Did I used to drive my car to the track and risk it,...?...yes ,..but man,.if you get it wrong,...it could be your life.
FYI:..when you roll over 1 time it feels like its taking F-O-R-E-V-E-R
everything slows down and gets quiet,.then as you come to a stop,..and the windshield is out,..passenger seat is very close to you,..the sound starts coming back,....people are looking at you funny,..or maybe you're still by yourself,...waiting for the safety truck,...........
Look just tajke it easy,..go 6/10 on the track and take SubiegalS advise,.....but if you're like alot of us,.who cant go 6/10 th,......if you're at that stage where it may become a track only car,..and still have tags on it,...make the big(smart) step and get a cage.
944 turbo guy
ps. I lost a good friend in a 2.5 RS (dead) at a drivers ed event.
| Snowphun | 12-08-2003 02:55 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 944 turbo guy[/i]
[B] The safety issue with a harness bar is that in a situation where you back into a wall,..trust me it happens,.....the top of the seat will bend under the harness bar, basically taking your head with it. For this reason,.Porsche club to IMSA, all require a seat brace with the cage to support the seat. Brey Krause makes a nice one,.some people make their own.
[/B][/QUOTE] This is typically only an issue with seats constructed of fiberglass, kevlar or cf as they tend to be brittle and do not deal with that type of energy well. A stock seat could fail at the lower pivot point and result in a similar situation; one way to avoid this is to have the harness bar a little lower, or two parallel bars.
Keep in mind all of these bars cut into the rear seat room.
[B] The safety issue with a harness bar is that in a situation where you back into a wall,..trust me it happens,.....the top of the seat will bend under the harness bar, basically taking your head with it. For this reason,.Porsche club to IMSA, all require a seat brace with the cage to support the seat. Brey Krause makes a nice one,.some people make their own.
[/B][/QUOTE] This is typically only an issue with seats constructed of fiberglass, kevlar or cf as they tend to be brittle and do not deal with that type of energy well. A stock seat could fail at the lower pivot point and result in a similar situation; one way to avoid this is to have the harness bar a little lower, or two parallel bars.
Keep in mind all of these bars cut into the rear seat room.
| STi-ll chillin' | 12-08-2003 03:20 PM |
Snowphun - I've already removed the rear seat and don't care about 'rear seat room'.
Subie Gal - I've already said that no, i don't want a full-on cage inside the car. But i do want something and i think just a harness bar is not the way to go for me. I think you are right about 'bolt-in' cages being sub-par.
944 turbo guy - thanks for your input. Thank you for validating my concern and giving weight to this issue with your own experiences. I like your idea of a 'back-half bar' with seat braces and good belts and attachment points. Where can I find santioning body material on this subject? Or sanctioning body approved shops to do the work? How do you feel about harnesses on the street? What seats do you use?
Sorry for all the ?????????????
Subie Gal - I've already said that no, i don't want a full-on cage inside the car. But i do want something and i think just a harness bar is not the way to go for me. I think you are right about 'bolt-in' cages being sub-par.
944 turbo guy - thanks for your input. Thank you for validating my concern and giving weight to this issue with your own experiences. I like your idea of a 'back-half bar' with seat braces and good belts and attachment points. Where can I find santioning body material on this subject? Or sanctioning body approved shops to do the work? How do you feel about harnesses on the street? What seats do you use?
Sorry for all the ?????????????
| 02R6 | 12-08-2003 03:40 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by North Ursalia[/i]
[B] Forum Rules:
9. Absolutely no "elite" style (***, @@@, iMpReZa) [COLOR=red]or all caps writing is allowed anywhere on the message board[/COLOR], especially in the subject lines.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Before you guys get pissed at me (too late for that) for responding the way I did, read the forum rules. I'm certainly not saying I'm a moderator, and I don't follow the rules all of the time either. What I am saying, though, is that it's annoying ("goofy") to read responses in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS.
I am genuinely interested in this topic. That's why I looked. I didn't mean to show any "attitude" or disrespect by my resposnse and I apologize if it came off that way. Also, "944 turbo guy" might be "more experienced in motorsports than I will ever be." Who knows? Remember, I never questioned his motorsports knowledge, just his response style.
[B] Forum Rules:
9. Absolutely no "elite" style (***, @@@, iMpReZa) [COLOR=red]or all caps writing is allowed anywhere on the message board[/COLOR], especially in the subject lines.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Before you guys get pissed at me (too late for that) for responding the way I did, read the forum rules. I'm certainly not saying I'm a moderator, and I don't follow the rules all of the time either. What I am saying, though, is that it's annoying ("goofy") to read responses in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS.
I am genuinely interested in this topic. That's why I looked. I didn't mean to show any "attitude" or disrespect by my resposnse and I apologize if it came off that way. Also, "944 turbo guy" might be "more experienced in motorsports than I will ever be." Who knows? Remember, I never questioned his motorsports knowledge, just his response style.
| 944 turbo guy | 12-08-2003 03:48 PM |
Usage issues..
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Let's first establish what your plans are for the next 2 years,..racing,.drivers eds, what will it be???
I use a Recaro Racer with the head protection,..a Matter cage and Sabelt belts, with a Brey Krause seat support. Harness belts on the street,..I only did it for a short time,..I live 60 miles from Summit Point,.so I actually have driven to the track(on slicks) and raced, finished 2nd out of 35) and driven home !! I wouldnt suggest that though,.very risky,..
Modern seatbelts offer alot of advantages in reallife situations,.so just leave them in, and or reattach each time. call GREG or
Dave @ Rallispec for cage info....they are eastcoast,...maybe RallyPerformance could help also....
944 turbo guy
I use a Recaro Racer with the head protection,..a Matter cage and Sabelt belts, with a Brey Krause seat support. Harness belts on the street,..I only did it for a short time,..I live 60 miles from Summit Point,.so I actually have driven to the track(on slicks) and raced, finished 2nd out of 35) and driven home !! I wouldnt suggest that though,.very risky,..
Modern seatbelts offer alot of advantages in reallife situations,.so just leave them in, and or reattach each time. call GREG or
Dave @ Rallispec for cage info....they are eastcoast,...maybe RallyPerformance could help also....
944 turbo guy
| 944 turbo guy | 12-08-2003 03:55 PM |
02R6-
Its all good dude,.you were right,....and I made fun of it,.later with the post that had small caps in it,.........
944tg:)
Its all good dude,.you were right,....and I made fun of it,.later with the post that had small caps in it,.........
944tg:)
| 02R6 | 12-08-2003 04:18 PM |
TG, thanks for being cool about this. I meant no ill will and am glad we can move on. Keep up the informative posting, I am very interested in this topic and enjoy what you have to contribute.
| nathansvt | 12-08-2003 05:41 PM |
hmm. I've been watching this thead with interest. What would be the best route for a daily-driver street car that's occasionally used for DE ?
-Full cage sounds too dangerous in case of a street collision.
-Half-cage / roll bar sounds ok, but if you're going that far it seems pointless to not go full cage.
-Harness bar used only on the track (to keep you from sliding around) sounds ok, but somewhat dangerous in the event of a rollover
-keeping it stock. really, this may be the best option if you have to drive it to work every day.
-Full cage sounds too dangerous in case of a street collision.
-Half-cage / roll bar sounds ok, but if you're going that far it seems pointless to not go full cage.
-Harness bar used only on the track (to keep you from sliding around) sounds ok, but somewhat dangerous in the event of a rollover
-keeping it stock. really, this may be the best option if you have to drive it to work every day.
| STi-ll chillin' | 12-08-2003 06:25 PM |
I don't drive my car everyday. Back-half bar sounds good to me. Couldn't you leave the stock seat belts in, AND have harnesses to put in for the track?
| Snowphun | 12-08-2003 06:53 PM |
Personally I'd leave both the stock belts and the harnesses in the car, even 5 point belts are easy enough to tuck away.
The problem with a roll bar (which is what you're talking about installing), is that it's very possible you may hit it with your head in an accident. Even with padding that will be a nasty impact without a helmet.
The problem with a roll bar (which is what you're talking about installing), is that it's very possible you may hit it with your head in an accident. Even with padding that will be a nasty impact without a helmet.
| 944 turbo guy | 12-08-2003 08:34 PM |
The gray area,.......
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You guys are now realizing how difficult it is to get into motorsports without a lot of money,..meaning,.unless you can just dedicate that car as a track car,...which is ideal,..but not realistic,...youre' gonna have 20k worth of fun street driving just sittin there,....and even in my case,..I get to drive 4-5 times a month,.( track events) most people live like 2-4 hrs from the track and they go 4 times a year,...........so yes it isnt an easy decision.
It's only the beginning when it comes to the sacrifices you'll make to go fast.
I was at a point 4 years ago,.when I decided the only way to beat the top guys in my race group was to remove my dash (94lbs),.and the other Recaro SPG ( 16lbs),.and install lexan rear glass(84lbs) and go to a very short gerabox( 3000 rpm @ 60 mph)
In the end,.the car weighed 247 lbs less, had shorter gears,. wipers, no headlights,. no radio, no dash,.....but the lap time dropped 2.5 seconds,....YEP,..and I still drove it to the track back then,.....cold as a MF in early March ,..cops drive by and just shake their heads,..they know if you're headed that way ,.you're going to the track,..as long as the tags were good,.and car wasnt too loud (109 db).
So again,..really think about the intended future use, before you go as far as install a cage( I'm sure you would, not saying you hadnt either)
Also keep in mind,..once you install that back half ,...every ricer on the road will want to race you more than even now.
Again,..just trying to offer another angle and keep you thinking about ALL the ups and downs at this particular point.
944 turbo guy
It's only the beginning when it comes to the sacrifices you'll make to go fast.
I was at a point 4 years ago,.when I decided the only way to beat the top guys in my race group was to remove my dash (94lbs),.and the other Recaro SPG ( 16lbs),.and install lexan rear glass(84lbs) and go to a very short gerabox( 3000 rpm @ 60 mph)
In the end,.the car weighed 247 lbs less, had shorter gears,. wipers, no headlights,. no radio, no dash,.....but the lap time dropped 2.5 seconds,....YEP,..and I still drove it to the track back then,.....cold as a MF in early March ,..cops drive by and just shake their heads,..they know if you're headed that way ,.you're going to the track,..as long as the tags were good,.and car wasnt too loud (109 db).
So again,..really think about the intended future use, before you go as far as install a cage( I'm sure you would, not saying you hadnt either)
Also keep in mind,..once you install that back half ,...every ricer on the road will want to race you more than even now.
Again,..just trying to offer another angle and keep you thinking about ALL the ups and downs at this particular point.
944 turbo guy
| Snowphun | 12-08-2003 08:58 PM |
I agree with 944tg on this and IMO it sounds like you're not at the point of needing a roll bar yet. You don't need one for autocross or dragging (unless you're in the 10's IIRC), and while it won't hurt to have at driver ed and time trials, it is not the norm.
Why not see how track events in this car go for awhile? Maybe you'd be happier with a track car? Do you have a lot of track time under your belt?
Why not see how track events in this car go for awhile? Maybe you'd be happier with a track car? Do you have a lot of track time under your belt?
| ellisnc | 12-08-2003 11:56 PM |
Re: HARNESS BARS.........
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 944 turbo guy [/i]
[B]The safety issue with a harness bar is that in a situation where you back into a wall,..trust me it happens,.....the top of the seat will bend under the harness bar, basically taking your head with it. For this reason,.Porsche club to IMSA, all require a seat brace with the cage to support the seat. Brey Krause makes a nice one,.some people make their own.
[/B][/QUOTE]
AFAIK seats that meet the FIA 1999 standard do not require a seatback brace. I have Recaro Pole Position which meet this standard...
[B]The safety issue with a harness bar is that in a situation where you back into a wall,..trust me it happens,.....the top of the seat will bend under the harness bar, basically taking your head with it. For this reason,.Porsche club to IMSA, all require a seat brace with the cage to support the seat. Brey Krause makes a nice one,.some people make their own.
[/B][/QUOTE]
AFAIK seats that meet the FIA 1999 standard do not require a seatback brace. I have Recaro Pole Position which meet this standard...
| STIRS | 12-09-2003 01:04 AM |
944tg: sorry for the newbie question but can you please explain to me what a seat brace is?
-Thanks
-Thanks
| Snowphun | 12-09-2003 07:34 AM |
Seat brace:
[url]http://www.smartcart.com/Paragon/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=SBB15[/url]
[url]http://www.smartcart.com/Paragon/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=SBB15[/url]
| 944 turbo guy | 12-09-2003 09:45 AM |
Re: Re: HARNESS BARS.........
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ellisnc [/i]
[B]AFAIK seats that meet the FIA 1999 standard do not require a seatback brace. I have Recaro Pole Position which meet this standard... [/B][/QUOTE]
These sanctioning bodies DO require it,...SCCA, SCCA PRO,.IMSA,..
FIA-ALMS,FIA-GT,......
I have seen Carbon fibre seats crack and fibreglass break,..seat braces save lives,..important part of the equation.
944tg
ps. again,.just my .02 cents worth,.......
[B]AFAIK seats that meet the FIA 1999 standard do not require a seatback brace. I have Recaro Pole Position which meet this standard... [/B][/QUOTE]
These sanctioning bodies DO require it,...SCCA, SCCA PRO,.IMSA,..
FIA-ALMS,FIA-GT,......
I have seen Carbon fibre seats crack and fibreglass break,..seat braces save lives,..important part of the equation.
944tg
ps. again,.just my .02 cents worth,.......
| 944 turbo guy | 12-09-2003 10:03 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Snowphun [/i]
[B]Seat brace:
[url]http://www.smartcart.com/Paragon/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=SBB15[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
snowphun,...nice brace,....if you could post a picture of the Brey Krause unit it has a 10inch base that creates a triangle area on the back seat,....distributes the energy over a broader area.......I would post it, but I'm at work.
944 turbo guy
[B]Seat brace:
[url]http://www.smartcart.com/Paragon/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=SBB15[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
snowphun,...nice brace,....if you could post a picture of the Brey Krause unit it has a 10inch base that creates a triangle area on the back seat,....distributes the energy over a broader area.......I would post it, but I'm at work.
944 turbo guy
| STi-ll chillin' | 12-10-2003 01:30 PM |
Hey Snowphun.............
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I would like to see a pic of the Krause brace also.:)
Thank you everyone for contributing to this thread.
I'm bumpin' it cause I'd like to know if anyone has more to add.
Thank you everyone for contributing to this thread.
I'm bumpin' it cause I'd like to know if anyone has more to add.
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