| Rich10 | 10-27-2004 09:21 AM |
SCCA class for ALK
�
�
I have heard several times that an anti-lift kit puts a WRX into a highly modified class because it moves a suspension mounting point. I don't have an ALK and I'm not stock, but what class would an ALK put an otherwise stock WRX into?
| dwx | 10-27-2004 09:31 AM |
F-Prepared.
| DrBiggly | 10-27-2004 10:39 AM |
What he said. :)
| Rich10 | 10-27-2004 10:51 AM |
What other types of cars are in F-Prepared? What mod's are allowed?
| DrBiggly | 10-27-2004 11:39 AM |
[QUOTE=Rich10]What other types of cars are in F-Prepared? What mod's are allowed?[/QUOTE]
I don't know off the top of my head other than to say other changes to the suspension mounting points. You should just grab a rulebook. The list of modifications for that class are fairly extensive I think. :)
I don't know off the top of my head other than to say other changes to the suspension mounting points. You should just grab a rulebook. The list of modifications for that class are fairly extensive I think. :)
| dowroa | 10-27-2004 11:41 AM |
Think about it this way: You could spend well over 100K, and still not have the best car in F-Prepared.
Think: Race car.
Oh, and kiss PAX good bye. All you have is straight time (almost).
- dow
Think: Race car.
Oh, and kiss PAX good bye. All you have is straight time (almost).
- dow
| Rebellion | 10-27-2004 12:16 PM |
use offset bushings instead... they serve the same purpose as the ALK but don't change the mounting points.
| dowroa | 10-27-2004 12:24 PM |
Oh, I also wanted to state that, while we all think this rule SHOULD NOT put you into F-Prepared -- rules are rules. If you are racing in ANY series, you have to know they rules for the series and prepare accordingly, or just go out and have fun.
So, enjoy the ALK, or get offset bushings and have a chance in STX. It's up to you, and no salt on you. Just seen this thread lots lately.
- dow
So, enjoy the ALK, or get offset bushings and have a chance in STX. It's up to you, and no salt on you. Just seen this thread lots lately.
- dow
| DrBiggly | 10-27-2004 12:47 PM |
[QUOTE=dowroa]Think about it this way: You could spend well over 100K, and still not have the best car in F-Prepared.
Think: Race car.
Oh, and kiss PAX good bye. All you have is straight time (almost).
- dow[/QUOTE]
PAX only matters for Subaru SuperChallenge, Nationals, and those pesky THSCC members. :p
Think: Race car.
Oh, and kiss PAX good bye. All you have is straight time (almost).
- dow[/QUOTE]
PAX only matters for Subaru SuperChallenge, Nationals, and those pesky THSCC members. :p
| dowroa | 10-27-2004 12:49 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]version 1.0 erased[/QUOTE]
Don't think I didn't read that.... :)
- dow
Don't think I didn't read that.... :)
- dow
| DrBiggly | 10-27-2004 01:06 PM |
Open mouth, speak too quickly. Think, rephrase as to not come across like an elitist a-hole. ;) :)
In all honesty, I think THSCC places too much importance on PAX.
In all honesty, I think THSCC places too much importance on PAX.
| Rich10 | 10-27-2004 01:10 PM |
[QUOTE=dowroa]or just go out and have fun.[/QUOTE]
That's all that I do autox for. I'm not locally or nationally competitive and I'm not willing to invest the time, money or effort to change that.
That's all that I do autox for. I'm not locally or nationally competitive and I'm not willing to invest the time, money or effort to change that.
| DrBiggly | 10-27-2004 01:14 PM |
[QUOTE=Rich10]That's all that I do autox for. I'm not locally or nationally competitive and I'm not willing to invest the time, money or effort to change that.[/QUOTE]
Right. The problem comes in where folks want to modify their car in any way that they choose and set it up to be fun for them on the street, then whine when it puts them in some odd class. You can prep your car for street and have fun autoxing, or you can prep your car for autoxing and not for street. It's a compromise; can't have both. :)
Right. The problem comes in where folks want to modify their car in any way that they choose and set it up to be fun for them on the street, then whine when it puts them in some odd class. You can prep your car for street and have fun autoxing, or you can prep your car for autoxing and not for street. It's a compromise; can't have both. :)
| makofoto | 10-27-2004 01:47 PM |
Instead of using the ALK ... some classes, even STX ... allow the use of camber/caster plates ... which do a lot more then what you gain using the ALK ....
| Rich10 | 10-27-2004 02:12 PM |
From what I have read, camber/caster plates cause increases in NVH that I (or more importantly my wife) don't want for my daily driver. I also don't want to increase the front wheel gap.
The comfort ALK seems to be what I am looking for from a street perspective. If it puts me in a highly modified class for autox, so be it. I'll just have to give up all the prize money that I was going to get. ;) Actually, I may win my local F-Prepared since I don't think that anyone else is running FP in my area. :lol:
In any case, I probably won't do anything until next spring. I don't have access to a lift or air tools and spending a couple of hours under my car installing parts isn't that fun when it gets cold outside.
The comfort ALK seems to be what I am looking for from a street perspective. If it puts me in a highly modified class for autox, so be it. I'll just have to give up all the prize money that I was going to get. ;) Actually, I may win my local F-Prepared since I don't think that anyone else is running FP in my area. :lol:
In any case, I probably won't do anything until next spring. I don't have access to a lift or air tools and spending a couple of hours under my car installing parts isn't that fun when it gets cold outside.
| makofoto | 10-27-2004 02:31 PM |
Most people eliminate the rubber gasket when going with a camber/caster plate. You can retain that for less NVH ...
Doesn't the ALK required spacers when putting the subframe brace back on ... lots of work. Camber/Caster plates are more versatile ...
There are various ways to deal with wheel gap ... springs, coil overs with adjustments ... the up coming Prodrive Active suspension ... the Praxis air suspension. Those active suspensions will probably put you in a higher class ...
Doesn't the ALK required spacers when putting the subframe brace back on ... lots of work. Camber/Caster plates are more versatile ...
There are various ways to deal with wheel gap ... springs, coil overs with adjustments ... the up coming Prodrive Active suspension ... the Praxis air suspension. Those active suspensions will probably put you in a higher class ...
| Rebellion | 10-27-2004 02:36 PM |
like i said.. use offset bushings.. they accomplish the same thing as an ALK without messing mounting point. NVH shouldn't be any worse than the ALK depending on what bushings you use (there's two different types used in ALK's too so one is quieter than the other but less stiff).
mak: pretty sure the active suspensions are damn near illegal for most every class (just like the ALK).
mak: pretty sure the active suspensions are damn near illegal for most every class (just like the ALK).
| kwh29 | 10-27-2004 06:45 PM |
You might be pleasantly surprised at how little NVH the camber plate adds. They are almost always installed along with proper adjustable coil-overs so people never feel the difference that the plate itself makes. I've driven several cars (not Subaru) with Camber plates and stock springs. It's not all that harsh.
--Kevin H.
--Kevin H.
| ChrisW | 10-27-2004 06:58 PM |
if your worried about nvh, use the noltec camber caster road plates. The non race version of these plates allows you to get extra caster, and they utilize a polly bushing material to handle any increased NVH.
You can also use the offset bushing to gain much of the benifets that you get with the ALK.
You can also use the offset bushing to gain much of the benifets that you get with the ALK.
| z3coupe | 10-28-2004 11:42 PM |
[QUOTE]You can prep your car for street and have fun autoxing, or you can prep your car for autoxing and not for street. It's a compromise; can't have both.[/QUOTE] Boy, isn't this soooooooooo TRUE! How many times when someone asks about my car, the first questions out of their mouths are:
1) what's it do in a 1/4 mile?
2) how much boost you using?
3) did you put in a bigger turbo?
Never seem to ask about the suspension or brakes. So guess that summs up what the typical street jockey mods first. Then wonders why he goes off the cliff during a canyon run :disco:
1) what's it do in a 1/4 mile?
2) how much boost you using?
3) did you put in a bigger turbo?
Never seem to ask about the suspension or brakes. So guess that summs up what the typical street jockey mods first. Then wonders why he goes off the cliff during a canyon run :disco:
| Zuffy | 10-29-2004 12:40 AM |
Who makes a good offset bushing that adds caster?
| PhilC | 10-29-2004 08:42 AM |
Whiteline KCA375, adds a half degree of caster.
| wrrrx | 10-29-2004 09:04 AM |
[QUOTE=kwh29]You might be pleasantly surprised at how little NVH the camber plate adds. [/QUOTE]
Also- I've heard plenty of reports saying that ALK's increase NVH quite a bit on their own! In fact, I read [i][B]such[/B][/i] harsh reviews that I returned the set I had and didn't even try it! :eek:
Those "offset" bushings sound promising- I'll hafta look into that.
I'm still considering c/c plates and coilovers, but I don't wanna add much- if any- NVH to my already noisy STi! :lol:
Russ R
Also- I've heard plenty of reports saying that ALK's increase NVH quite a bit on their own! In fact, I read [i][B]such[/B][/i] harsh reviews that I returned the set I had and didn't even try it! :eek:
Those "offset" bushings sound promising- I'll hafta look into that.
I'm still considering c/c plates and coilovers, but I don't wanna add much- if any- NVH to my already noisy STi! :lol:
Russ R
| DrBiggly | 10-31-2004 09:03 PM |
Russ,
For the least amount of NVH to add to your vehicle and the most amount of enjoyment out of the current suspension, I highly recommend the JDM Pink springs first. Then add to that. :)
For the least amount of NVH to add to your vehicle and the most amount of enjoyment out of the current suspension, I highly recommend the JDM Pink springs first. Then add to that. :)
| driggity | 11-01-2004 05:21 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]Doesn't the ALK required spacers when putting the subframe brace back on ... lots of work.[/QUOTE]
Not lots of work.
[QUOTE=Rebellion]like i said.. use offset bushings.. they accomplish the same thing as an ALK[/QUOTE]
No they don't.
Not lots of work.
[QUOTE=Rebellion]like i said.. use offset bushings.. they accomplish the same thing as an ALK[/QUOTE]
No they don't.
| DrBiggly | 11-01-2004 05:31 PM |
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=654768[/url]
You guys should read this thread and pay particular attention to nhluhr's post about the 3 distinct benefits to the ALK (post #8.) Later on in the thread you can see Whiteline backing him up. :)
You guys should read this thread and pay particular attention to nhluhr's post about the 3 distinct benefits to the ALK (post #8.) Later on in the thread you can see Whiteline backing him up. :)
| AJ711 | 11-01-2004 06:28 PM |
What I don't understand is this. The ALK is SM/STS illegal due to the fact that it alters the location of the control arms. It still uses the stock mounting points, but just moves teh control arm slightly.
The castor/camber plates use the stock mounting bolts, and alter the location of the top of the strut. Yet, these are allowed.
Principally, they are the same. Use the stock mounting points and alter one variable.
I wish I could put castor/camber plates, but I'd rather not rip apart the Tein's just so I can be SM legal. Maybe I'll bring up my idea/point to SCCA and see what happens in 05. I know I'd have more fun in SM than FP.
AJ
The castor/camber plates use the stock mounting bolts, and alter the location of the top of the strut. Yet, these are allowed.
Principally, they are the same. Use the stock mounting points and alter one variable.
I wish I could put castor/camber plates, but I'd rather not rip apart the Tein's just so I can be SM legal. Maybe I'll bring up my idea/point to SCCA and see what happens in 05. I know I'd have more fun in SM than FP.
AJ
| DrBiggly | 11-01-2004 07:27 PM |
Rip apart the Teins? :confused: I have Teins with Noltec plates and it works just fine.
| ChrisW | 11-01-2004 07:42 PM |
[QUOTE=midnx03]What I don't understand is this. The ALK is SM/STS illegal due to the fact that it alters the location of the control arms. It still uses the stock mounting points, but just moves teh control arm slightly.
AJ[/QUOTE]
The reason they are illegal is because your modifying the stock mounting point for the lower control arm. By the rules the mounting point for the lower control arm is the bracket itself, not the subframe that the bracket attaches to.
In SM, you have to use the factory suspension mounting points, you can't modify the brackets that the suspension connects to.
The devil is in the details...
just get a set of noltec plates, they bolt up to just about anything that you can put on the subie
AJ[/QUOTE]
The reason they are illegal is because your modifying the stock mounting point for the lower control arm. By the rules the mounting point for the lower control arm is the bracket itself, not the subframe that the bracket attaches to.
In SM, you have to use the factory suspension mounting points, you can't modify the brackets that the suspension connects to.
The devil is in the details...
just get a set of noltec plates, they bolt up to just about anything that you can put on the subie
| AJ711 | 11-01-2004 09:35 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Rip apart the Teins? :confused: I have Teins with Noltec plates and it works just fine.[/QUOTE]
Oh, you're the :devil: as now I'm going to have to purchase some and get some higher spring rates for the Flex's.
Until then, looks like I'll be having some fun in FP. And I liked what the ALK provided as well, but I'm sure the Noltec's will bring plenty more.
AJ
Oh, you're the :devil: as now I'm going to have to purchase some and get some higher spring rates for the Flex's.
Until then, looks like I'll be having some fun in FP. And I liked what the ALK provided as well, but I'm sure the Noltec's will bring plenty more.
AJ
| makofoto | 11-01-2004 10:44 PM |
How Stiff are the Whiteline KCA375 compared to my Group N bushings ?
| DrBiggly | 11-01-2004 11:55 PM |
AJ,
If you really wanted to do it right, get the stiffer transverse link bushings, the ALK caster bushing, and the Noltec race spec plates. (People seem to think a super-tiny thin piece of poly in the non-race version makes for a huge ride increase; the thing is about 1/16" thick and not exactly soft so don't be fooled by that; get the real deal.)
You would have every single advantage except the removal of the anti-lift part of the ALK and by that point, you surely won't miss it. :)
If you really wanted to do it right, get the stiffer transverse link bushings, the ALK caster bushing, and the Noltec race spec plates. (People seem to think a super-tiny thin piece of poly in the non-race version makes for a huge ride increase; the thing is about 1/16" thick and not exactly soft so don't be fooled by that; get the real deal.)
You would have every single advantage except the removal of the anti-lift part of the ALK and by that point, you surely won't miss it. :)
| SMiLEY | 11-02-2004 08:28 AM |
Ok, I should probably go read my rule book before I post this, BUT, all you people arguing that ALK and castor/camber plates do the same thing need to just stop. I'm almost positive that castor/camber plates are specifically allowed in the ST classes. If you want to push for an allowance of Anti-Lift Kits, then fine, go for it, but to say they should be legal on the basis that it is functionally similar to something that is specifically allowed is just silly.
| DrBiggly | 11-02-2004 09:27 AM |
Camber/caster plates are specifically allowed in ST classes and have been from the get-go; that was never an issue. :)
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét