| JamesWilson | 02-01-2007 08:13 PM |
Shock settings for RallyX
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First RallyCross event of the year for us in SoCal is this Saturday, running my hopelessly-outgunned '98 Impreza L (SCCA H-Stock car) with Hankook R202 rallye tyres in Modified 4 / Rally 4, as this is a combined SCCA and CRS event.
Surface should be silty/dusty dry lakebed, little to no rocks, and with rain the past few days may see some underlying mud or caking if it is drying.
Stock springs, KYB-AGX (until the Tein HG's come in), and a big Whiteline front bar....extra front end links, I seem to break them.
Any suggestions for starting places on the struts and tire pressures? Per at GRM mentioned #2 and #2 at their events with loose dirt....
Thoughts?
Thanks,
James Wilson
Surface should be silty/dusty dry lakebed, little to no rocks, and with rain the past few days may see some underlying mud or caking if it is drying.
Stock springs, KYB-AGX (until the Tein HG's come in), and a big Whiteline front bar....extra front end links, I seem to break them.
Any suggestions for starting places on the struts and tire pressures? Per at GRM mentioned #2 and #2 at their events with loose dirt....
Thoughts?
Thanks,
James Wilson
| akuhner | 02-01-2007 08:31 PM |
I have the Tein HGs and I usually ran them at 2 or 3 clicks off full hard, in rally cross and stage rally. I have the KYB AGXs as spares, but I've never run them competitively so I wouldn't know how to set them up. I always err towards too stiff then back off if necessary.
If you have any questions about the HGs when you get them drop me a PM, me and my HGs have been together through rain and shine.
You think you are under powered?! I have 72 wheel HP and I'm in Open Class! ;)
Alex
If you have any questions about the HGs when you get them drop me a PM, me and my HGs have been together through rain and shine.
You think you are under powered?! I have 72 wheel HP and I'm in Open Class! ;)
Alex
| AlbaScoob | 02-01-2007 09:27 PM |
stock springs, AGX KYB
softest setting
ditch the front bar for a stock one
upgrade the rear & add end links
30-35psi
softest setting
ditch the front bar for a stock one
upgrade the rear & add end links
30-35psi
| sirfrankwilliams | 02-01-2007 09:59 PM |
<--- HGs here too, and also for quite awhile.
I've run mine in rallyxs softer than #187, maybe half way to soft (compression & rebound)- but the lot at Thunderhill was hardpack and somewhat rough.
#187, how do you adjust your compression & rebound? Do you set them to the same number of clicks? I've experimented a bit with running them soft on compression and harder on rebound around town and noticed that the ride can be more comfortable while still retaining good cornering. I'm curious what you know about this.
I've run mine in rallyxs softer than #187, maybe half way to soft (compression & rebound)- but the lot at Thunderhill was hardpack and somewhat rough.
#187, how do you adjust your compression & rebound? Do you set them to the same number of clicks? I've experimented a bit with running them soft on compression and harder on rebound around town and noticed that the ride can be more comfortable while still retaining good cornering. I'm curious what you know about this.
| Impreza01 | 02-01-2007 10:46 PM |
Uh, ditch the large front bar. In rallying, it's preferred you have more independent wheel control. This means control the body roll with higher spring rates instead of using stabilizer bars.
| JamesWilson | 02-02-2007 01:37 AM |
[quote=Impreza01;16901163]Uh, ditch the large front bar. In rallying, it's preferred you have more independent wheel control. This means control the body roll with higher spring rates instead of using stabilizer bars.[/quote]
This is not a RallyCross car, it is an Autocross car....unfortunately the stock front bar is a 2 hour drive from here, and with work being as crazy as it is there is not going to be enough time to swap it out. Stock springs are required for Solo Stock class autocrossing. I may end up going to a full-rallycross setup if I am forced to run in a more modified rallycross class (due to the tires), or go down to snow tires and a totally-stock suspension when I am not autocrossing for SS4.
I guess we will just have to plan ahead better and make more changes between different types of events.
Not that I have enough stress with moving this past week, a baby due any day now, performance anxiety from a new Tire contract for this year, and a six-figure-a-month "home business"......:D
-JW
Broke and Slow
This is not a RallyCross car, it is an Autocross car....unfortunately the stock front bar is a 2 hour drive from here, and with work being as crazy as it is there is not going to be enough time to swap it out. Stock springs are required for Solo Stock class autocrossing. I may end up going to a full-rallycross setup if I am forced to run in a more modified rallycross class (due to the tires), or go down to snow tires and a totally-stock suspension when I am not autocrossing for SS4.
I guess we will just have to plan ahead better and make more changes between different types of events.
Not that I have enough stress with moving this past week, a baby due any day now, performance anxiety from a new Tire contract for this year, and a six-figure-a-month "home business"......:D
-JW
Broke and Slow
| Impreza01 | 02-02-2007 03:49 AM |
[QUOTE=JamesWilson;16902819]This is not a RallyCross car, it is an Autocross car...
-JW
Broke and Slow[/QUOTE]
Makes sense. The increase turn-in capabilities you see in autocross with that big front bar will be inverse proportioned during rallycross. I found out while massively understeering through turns in gravel. I knew it wasn't going to grip as well do to the less suspension independence, but it was way worse than I expected.
-JW
Broke and Slow[/QUOTE]
Makes sense. The increase turn-in capabilities you see in autocross with that big front bar will be inverse proportioned during rallycross. I found out while massively understeering through turns in gravel. I knew it wasn't going to grip as well do to the less suspension independence, but it was way worse than I expected.
| Howl | 02-02-2007 08:49 AM |
If the dry lakebed is really hard it might be more like a paved surface, so an autocross-like setup may work best. You probably won't be able to make a final decision about your setup until you get there and inspect the surface.
| Fred | 02-02-2007 01:24 PM |
Disconnect one of the front endlinks if you don't want to remove the whole bar, and set the AGXes at 3 front/ 6 rear. Adjust from there based on what the surface is like and what the car is doing. You need it damped well enough that it doesn't bottom out much on big ruts at high speeds, but not so much that it bounces around on the slower stuff. If it's really smooth and well-packed with no ruts, I'd probably go full stiff all around & see how that works.
Remember slow in, fast out. Good luck & have fun!
:)
Remember slow in, fast out. Good luck & have fun!
:)
| JamesWilson | 02-02-2007 02:34 PM |
My Hankook R202's (G70 compound) just showed up, HOLY CRAP. Can't wait.
Ran down to the junkyard this morning before work and picked up a set of Subaru 15x6" alloy wheels, need to get everything mounted up this afternoon.
Thanks for the input, more work tonight replacing some suspect hoses, final nut/bolt check, and the all-important vinyl package :)
-JW
Ran down to the junkyard this morning before work and picked up a set of Subaru 15x6" alloy wheels, need to get everything mounted up this afternoon.
Thanks for the input, more work tonight replacing some suspect hoses, final nut/bolt check, and the all-important vinyl package :)
-JW
| akuhner | 02-02-2007 08:28 PM |
[QUOTE=sirfrankwilliams;16900639]#187, how do you adjust your compression & rebound? Do you set them to the same number of clicks? I've experimented a bit with running them soft on compression and harder on rebound around town and noticed that the ride can be more comfortable while still retaining good cornering. I'm curious what you know about this.[/QUOTE]
I wish I knew more - I generally match them up because I don't know enough about suspension dynamics.
[QUOTE=JamesWilson;16902819]This is not a RallyCross car, it is an Autocross car....[/QUOTE]
How did you choose the HGs for an Auto-x car? I liked them at auto-x, but they allow more body roll than I liked for auto-x. If you were looking for a good compromise between auto-x and rally-x performance they are perfect!
Alex
I wish I knew more - I generally match them up because I don't know enough about suspension dynamics.
[QUOTE=JamesWilson;16902819]This is not a RallyCross car, it is an Autocross car....[/QUOTE]
How did you choose the HGs for an Auto-x car? I liked them at auto-x, but they allow more body roll than I liked for auto-x. If you were looking for a good compromise between auto-x and rally-x performance they are perfect!
Alex
| sirfrankwilliams | 02-03-2007 01:10 AM |
[quote=Car #187;16913248]How did you choose the HGs for an Auto-x car?[/quote]
I was wondering the same thing.
[SIZE=1]<--- Chose HGs because they were the nicest riding coilovers on the street, I love being on dirt roads, and got into rallyx. I track them now also.[/SIZE]
I was wondering the same thing.
[SIZE=1]<--- Chose HGs because they were the nicest riding coilovers on the street, I love being on dirt roads, and got into rallyx. I track them now also.[/SIZE]
| JamesWilson | 02-03-2007 03:22 AM |
[quote=sirfrankwilliams;16915536]I was wondering the same thing.
[SIZE=1]<--- Chose HGs because they were the nicest riding coilovers on the street, I love being on dirt roads, and got into rallyx. I track them now also.[/SIZE][/quote]
It is far faster to purchase the Teins through my contacts at the factory than it is to have Bilstein or EMI Racing build me a double adjustable strut, or finnagle a Koni 8611 into the stock housing. They do cost a bit more, but having them pre-built is a plus, as well as what you mentioned---- I will be doing both rallycross and autocross events and must fit within both rigid rule guidelines.
H-Stock must have stock spring perches and factory springs, if the HG's have the threaded perch (factory shape) set at the stock height, then I am legal to participate with the SCCA. For Rallycross, that goes out the window as even fixed-perch adjustable struts (fully autocross Stock legal) are not Stock legal with SCCA RallyX, or CRS RallyX.
I will just ditch the springs as delivered on the HG's, and subsitute a brand-new set of Subaru springs...I have a saggy rear :)
Late night, off to bed.....got the car ready for the Rallycross.
BTW-- rally tires are HEAVY, 24lbs apiece plus 15lbs per wheel, yikes.
Photos and in-car video to follow this weekend.
-JW
[SIZE=1]<--- Chose HGs because they were the nicest riding coilovers on the street, I love being on dirt roads, and got into rallyx. I track them now also.[/SIZE][/quote]
It is far faster to purchase the Teins through my contacts at the factory than it is to have Bilstein or EMI Racing build me a double adjustable strut, or finnagle a Koni 8611 into the stock housing. They do cost a bit more, but having them pre-built is a plus, as well as what you mentioned---- I will be doing both rallycross and autocross events and must fit within both rigid rule guidelines.
H-Stock must have stock spring perches and factory springs, if the HG's have the threaded perch (factory shape) set at the stock height, then I am legal to participate with the SCCA. For Rallycross, that goes out the window as even fixed-perch adjustable struts (fully autocross Stock legal) are not Stock legal with SCCA RallyX, or CRS RallyX.
I will just ditch the springs as delivered on the HG's, and subsitute a brand-new set of Subaru springs...I have a saggy rear :)
Late night, off to bed.....got the car ready for the Rallycross.
BTW-- rally tires are HEAVY, 24lbs apiece plus 15lbs per wheel, yikes.
Photos and in-car video to follow this weekend.
-JW
| akuhner | 02-03-2007 11:06 AM |
[QUOTE=JamesWilson;16916139]It is far faster to purchase the Teins through my contacts at the factory than it is to have Bilstein or EMI Racing build me a double adjustable strut, or finnagle a Koni 8611 into the stock housing. [/QUOTE]
I didn't realize they qualify for stock classes under auto-x rules! That's sweet.
You have contacts at the factory in Japan, or the location in California? I've had to send my struts in a few times and I've gotten decent service (MUCH better than when I had DMS), but it's still a pain. I have to get my fronts rebuilt, the pillow ball nut came loose during a rally and I ripped the threads right off the strut on both sides! The strut pulled all the way back into the wheel well and the car was riding on the top adjusters, and amazingly they still work!
Alex
I didn't realize they qualify for stock classes under auto-x rules! That's sweet.
You have contacts at the factory in Japan, or the location in California? I've had to send my struts in a few times and I've gotten decent service (MUCH better than when I had DMS), but it's still a pain. I have to get my fronts rebuilt, the pillow ball nut came loose during a rally and I ripped the threads right off the strut on both sides! The strut pulled all the way back into the wheel well and the car was riding on the top adjusters, and amazingly they still work!
Alex
| ROC pit-bull | 02-03-2007 05:37 PM |
It's good to see that I'm not the only one around who has the HG's. I'm in need of a spare set if any of would be willing to sell them...
I don't think the stock springs will fit on the hg's. I know the top will but I'm unsure the bottom of the stock spring will fit.
I don't think the stock springs will fit on the hg's. I know the top will but I'm unsure the bottom of the stock spring will fit.
| sirfrankwilliams | 02-03-2007 06:12 PM |
[B][U]known HG users:[/U][/B]
RoundtheBend
Car #187
sirfrankwilliams
ROC pit-bull
JamesWilson
[SIZE=1]Platypus?[/SIZE]
there are others but I can't think of them right now.
So far I've had three of the four shocks overhauled (the front right twice) in 40,000+ miles I've had them. Tein in Downey CA is fairly easy to deal with, although I've found you need to stay on them a bit and let them know if you have an event you need to be ready for.
RoundtheBend
Car #187
sirfrankwilliams
ROC pit-bull
JamesWilson
[SIZE=1]Platypus?[/SIZE]
there are others but I can't think of them right now.
So far I've had three of the four shocks overhauled (the front right twice) in 40,000+ miles I've had them. Tein in Downey CA is fairly easy to deal with, although I've found you need to stay on them a bit and let them know if you have an event you need to be ready for.
| ROC pit-bull | 02-03-2007 10:23 PM |
subscribed>>>>
I want an extra set for stage rally. hoping some one was sick of theirs and wanted to sell.
I want an extra set for stage rally. hoping some one was sick of theirs and wanted to sell.
| JamesWilson | 02-04-2007 12:00 AM |
Update on the RallyCross-
New Hankook R202's were fantastic, very consistent and bit very well in the very very very soft and silty surface. We ran two courses, one "inside" for 3 laps, and then one "outside" for 3 laps, for a combined 6 laps. The inside course was mostly 1st gear 180's and a few faster sweepers, very technical. Included a 4- or 5-cone slalom. The Outside course was very fast, started with a flat-out 3-cone slalom, then chicane and 180 opening to several fast sweepers, good to get a rhythm in.
I ate it on the inside course, as it was run first and it was my first couple of AWD rallycross laps (prev experience two events in my Rallye Fiero Of Death....don't laugh, a few Podiums and Wins in SS2!) was getting used to the surface and setup. Ran right in the mix with the WRX's and STi's that were there, even led shortly with quick laps.
The outside course was fantastic, just plain got it right every time except the first lap, my own dust clouded a kink/pointer and I blew by it on the "slow" side. That lap was still fastest of the group, but plus a 10-second penalty. Pissed off, I throw down a clean lap 2 seconds faster, for the TOP TIME of the COURSE! Not wanting to be outdone with a few drivers remaining, I ran my final lap exactly 1 second faster than the last, for a 2-second margin of fast lap over the uber-HP WRX's in AWD Open.
Not bad for an H-Stock car on Hankooks, eh?
Sooooo with the 10-second penalty, I finished 3rd in AWD Open, less than 3 seconds back overall....with a 10-second penalty!!
I dig RallyCrossing......
PS-- I have a ton of pics, need to find my USB cable. Another photographer got good action shots, he is sending them to me. Video turned out okay, I rushed to get the cameras set up and did not properly aim them with the screen, so my vids are all cockeyed. Poop. I will probably post them anyway (compressed on YouTube, each file is 150-190 MB apiece in MPEG2 format), including the Picture-In-Picture 2-camera videos.
PPS-- AGX's set of Full Soft front and Full Stiff rear, R202's at 32psi all around, kept the 22mm FSB in place....it was dirty, I am not crawling under there! :)
Thanks for the suggestions!
-JW
New Hankook R202's were fantastic, very consistent and bit very well in the very very very soft and silty surface. We ran two courses, one "inside" for 3 laps, and then one "outside" for 3 laps, for a combined 6 laps. The inside course was mostly 1st gear 180's and a few faster sweepers, very technical. Included a 4- or 5-cone slalom. The Outside course was very fast, started with a flat-out 3-cone slalom, then chicane and 180 opening to several fast sweepers, good to get a rhythm in.
I ate it on the inside course, as it was run first and it was my first couple of AWD rallycross laps (prev experience two events in my Rallye Fiero Of Death....don't laugh, a few Podiums and Wins in SS2!) was getting used to the surface and setup. Ran right in the mix with the WRX's and STi's that were there, even led shortly with quick laps.
The outside course was fantastic, just plain got it right every time except the first lap, my own dust clouded a kink/pointer and I blew by it on the "slow" side. That lap was still fastest of the group, but plus a 10-second penalty. Pissed off, I throw down a clean lap 2 seconds faster, for the TOP TIME of the COURSE! Not wanting to be outdone with a few drivers remaining, I ran my final lap exactly 1 second faster than the last, for a 2-second margin of fast lap over the uber-HP WRX's in AWD Open.
Not bad for an H-Stock car on Hankooks, eh?
Sooooo with the 10-second penalty, I finished 3rd in AWD Open, less than 3 seconds back overall....with a 10-second penalty!!
I dig RallyCrossing......
PS-- I have a ton of pics, need to find my USB cable. Another photographer got good action shots, he is sending them to me. Video turned out okay, I rushed to get the cameras set up and did not properly aim them with the screen, so my vids are all cockeyed. Poop. I will probably post them anyway (compressed on YouTube, each file is 150-190 MB apiece in MPEG2 format), including the Picture-In-Picture 2-camera videos.
PPS-- AGX's set of Full Soft front and Full Stiff rear, R202's at 32psi all around, kept the 22mm FSB in place....it was dirty, I am not crawling under there! :)
Thanks for the suggestions!
-JW
| akuhner | 02-04-2007 09:42 AM |
So much for being the underdog! Just goes to show that it's the nut behind the wheel that matters most.
| sirfrankwilliams | 02-04-2007 02:07 PM |
[quote=Car #187;16925261]it's the nut behind the wheel that matters most.[/quote]
+2 [SIZE=1]but rally tires really do help out a lot too[/SIZE]
Your event sounds far more interesting than what we've seen here in Northern Ca. Glad you had such a good time!
+2 [SIZE=1]but rally tires really do help out a lot too[/SIZE]
Your event sounds far more interesting than what we've seen here in Northern Ca. Glad you had such a good time!
| Porsche914boxer4 | 02-05-2007 07:06 PM |
James - It's Eli in san diego. How much can you get me a set of 15" Honkook rally tires for ?
Eli
Eli
| JamesWilson | 02-05-2007 07:23 PM |
Eli--
Talk with Joe Jordan at The Wheel Store in Oceanside. I do not sell them, I'm just a lowly Contract Driver. :)
-JW
Talk with Joe Jordan at The Wheel Store in Oceanside. I do not sell them, I'm just a lowly Contract Driver. :)
-JW
| Clavo | 02-06-2007 04:39 PM |
James,
Pictures will go in the mail Wed morn.
Curt. Blue WRX wagon.
Pictures will go in the mail Wed morn.
Curt. Blue WRX wagon.
| JamesWilson | 02-07-2007 01:27 AM |
Curt-- thanks, our pics did not turn out so great, I have a guy trying to edit a few...praying yours are better :)
Thanks again!
-JW
Thanks again!
-JW
| sirfrankwilliams | 02-07-2007 11:38 AM |
maybe even post a few here so the rest of us can see too? :)
| seabass372 | 02-07-2007 12:21 PM |
+1 i would not mind seeing my self
| JamesWilson | 02-08-2007 01:01 AM |
Video of the TTOD on the "outside course", ton of time lost, PS-- remember to aim camera after you remove it to show someone :) . Taken with ChaseCam PDR100 recorder and bullet camera, suction-mounted to inside of windshield.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX58fOBsSHI[/url]
I have a video of picture-in-picture (one front view, other driver/navigator) but is too large for YouTube, and I don't own any video editing software to trim down the extra unneeded run time :(
-JW
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX58fOBsSHI[/url]
I have a video of picture-in-picture (one front view, other driver/navigator) but is too large for YouTube, and I don't own any video editing software to trim down the extra unneeded run time :(
-JW
| sirfrankwilliams | 02-08-2007 11:12 AM |
^ Cool! :)
| Clavo | 02-08-2007 04:17 PM |
Well, here is one picture of JW's car.
I think he is leaning into the turn like in bobsledding. :banana:
[IMG]http://clavoberg.smugmug.com/photos/128366596-L.jpg[/IMG]
Some photos of some of the other cars can be found here:
[URL="http://clavoberg.smugmug.com/gallery/2447557/1/128366496"]Gallery[/URL]
And a link to another thread that has a link to pictures is here:
[URL="http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1194582"]Lamont's thread.[/URL]
But when I try to look at them, they b0rk my browser ?
I think he is leaning into the turn like in bobsledding. :banana:
[IMG]http://clavoberg.smugmug.com/photos/128366596-L.jpg[/IMG]
Some photos of some of the other cars can be found here:
[URL="http://clavoberg.smugmug.com/gallery/2447557/1/128366496"]Gallery[/URL]
And a link to another thread that has a link to pictures is here:
[URL="http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1194582"]Lamont's thread.[/URL]
But when I try to look at them, they b0rk my browser ?
| JamesWilson | 02-08-2007 10:33 PM |
heh, I have been accused of "leaning into a turn", I get pretty involved when I drive :)
Nice shots!
-JW
Nice shots!
-JW
| Clavo | 02-08-2007 11:36 PM |
Thanks.
Let me know when you get the CD. I have had some trouble with our international post office staff. :mad:
Let me know when you get the CD. I have had some trouble with our international post office staff. :mad:
| JamesWilson | 02-09-2007 03:27 PM |
Got it this morning, thanks again, they look awesome!!
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