| Nixlimited | 10-22-2005 02:23 PM |
Some Auto-X suggestions from veterans
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So I am getting set for my first Auto-X in the STi in a few weeks. I believe the class I am going to want to run in is STU since I have some modifications. I have looked through the SCCA solo 2 rules, but I wanted feedback from you veterans about what I should think about to make my car as competitive as possible in this class without falling into SM which I hear is dominated by Z06s etc.
Current mods are: -K&N Typhoon Short Ram/Defi Gauges/APS 3"/Cobb AP/H-Brace/SMC Alchy Injection/APS BOV/Perrin EBCS/Greddy Catch Can
Note: I have Cobb AP, so I can run without alcohol, but on 95 octane or 91 depending on what the rules are.
Thanks in advance.
Current mods are: -K&N Typhoon Short Ram/Defi Gauges/APS 3"/Cobb AP/H-Brace/SMC Alchy Injection/APS BOV/Perrin EBCS/Greddy Catch Can
Note: I have Cobb AP, so I can run without alcohol, but on 95 octane or 91 depending on what the rules are.
Thanks in advance.
| flyboymike | 10-22-2005 02:36 PM |
The BOV puts you into Street Mod. By the way, Z06's don't run in SM, they run in SM2. If you take off the BOV and run an STU legal map on your Accessport, you can run STU. You're not allowed to change the boost map at all.
| flyboymike | 10-22-2005 02:37 PM |
Also, is EBCS an electronic boost controller? If so, that'll also put you into SM. The H-brace might be another bumper to SM. I think you can't have anything that would tie the subframe together in STU.
Edit: according to another thread up here in the Motorsports forum, the H-brace actually puts you beyond Street Mod.
Edit: according to another thread up here in the Motorsports forum, the H-brace actually puts you beyond Street Mod.
| REX8 | 10-22-2005 02:52 PM |
Same here...
Need a different map for the AP, definately no brace, no BOV, no injection, and certainly no boost controller...
Need a different map for the AP, definately no brace, no BOV, no injection, and certainly no boost controller...
| porque | 10-22-2005 08:10 PM |
Don't mean to de-rail, but could someone tell me what class I should be in? I've been running ESP but I looked more closely at the rules and I think I can do STX, I'm not positive though.
02 WRX
Stealthback w/ cat, up-pipe, prodrive muffler, cobb ap stage 2, perrin rear sway bar and endlinks, prodrive springs, prodrive intercooler hose
02 WRX
Stealthback w/ cat, up-pipe, prodrive muffler, cobb ap stage 2, perrin rear sway bar and endlinks, prodrive springs, prodrive intercooler hose
| AtomicRacer | 10-22-2005 09:52 PM |
[QUOTE=porque]Don't mean to de-rail, but could someone tell me what class I should be in? I've been running ESP but I looked more closely at the rules and I think I can do STX, I'm not positive though.
02 WRX
Stealthback w/ cat, up-pipe, prodrive muffler, cobb ap stage 2, perrin rear sway bar and endlinks, prodrive springs, prodrive intercooler hose[/QUOTE]
Not knowing your wheel/tire combo I can't say you would be legal for STX. The IC hose puts you in ESP but the Stage 2 map puts you in SM for sure.
-Paul
02 WRX
Stealthback w/ cat, up-pipe, prodrive muffler, cobb ap stage 2, perrin rear sway bar and endlinks, prodrive springs, prodrive intercooler hose[/QUOTE]
Not knowing your wheel/tire combo I can't say you would be legal for STX. The IC hose puts you in ESP but the Stage 2 map puts you in SM for sure.
-Paul
| porque | 10-22-2005 10:32 PM |
[QUOTE=AtomicRacer]Not knowing your wheel/tire combo I can't say you would be legal for STX. The IC hose puts you in ESP but the Stage 2 map puts you in SM for sure.
-Paul[/QUOTE]
I'm on stock wheels and RE92's at the moment (which is pretty hillarious for autocrossing). Before I was on 225/45/17 PZero MS's. In the future I'm trying to get some Azenis on my stock wheels. I'm definitely not on 245 r-compounds or anything.
So since Stage 2 ups the boost that puts me in SM?
-Paul[/QUOTE]
I'm on stock wheels and RE92's at the moment (which is pretty hillarious for autocrossing). Before I was on 225/45/17 PZero MS's. In the future I'm trying to get some Azenis on my stock wheels. I'm definitely not on 245 r-compounds or anything.
So since Stage 2 ups the boost that puts me in SM?
| waktasz | 10-22-2005 11:15 PM |
Cobb makes AP legal realtime maps.
| chibich | 10-22-2005 11:20 PM |
does a new intercooler take you out of stu?
| waktasz | 10-22-2005 11:33 PM |
[QUOTE=chibich]does a new intercooler take you out of stu?[/QUOTE]
Rgr that.
Rgr that.
| JustAScoobyGrl | 10-22-2005 11:40 PM |
Hey ... so if we're talking about Solo classing, what's the word on the street concerning AccessPorts now? I understand some National-level people are going to protest AccessPorts out of STX, which is currently my class. Anyone else heard that's the case?
After a close read of the classing rules for STX, I *think* you can run an AccessPort on a WRX as LONG as you don't change the boost levels ... which (bear with me here, I'm not very tech-literate) would still allow me, I believe, to take advantage of the 93 octane gas available here (as stock tuning is adjusted to 91). That's IF I go the AccessPort route - I DO NOT want to end up in SM!
What does anyone/everyone know about this subject?
After a close read of the classing rules for STX, I *think* you can run an AccessPort on a WRX as LONG as you don't change the boost levels ... which (bear with me here, I'm not very tech-literate) would still allow me, I believe, to take advantage of the 93 octane gas available here (as stock tuning is adjusted to 91). That's IF I go the AccessPort route - I DO NOT want to end up in SM!
What does anyone/everyone know about this subject?
| crystalhelix | 10-23-2005 12:05 AM |
[URL=http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2005SoloRules.pdf]2005 Rule Book[/URL]
right click - save target as
The rule book will clarify anything for you. ;)
Also - rules are important. Serious autocrossers will actually prepare their cars for the class they intend to be in. If you want to freely modify your car be prepared to run in the appropriate class. Locally you should be able to have fun in any class you race in!
right click - save target as
The rule book will clarify anything for you. ;)
Also - rules are important. Serious autocrossers will actually prepare their cars for the class they intend to be in. If you want to freely modify your car be prepared to run in the appropriate class. Locally you should be able to have fun in any class you race in!
| waktasz | 10-23-2005 12:09 AM |
Some say the Cobb STX legal maps aren't really legal because they do in fact modify the boost maps. I will just have to take their word for it, and since I'm not going anywhere for in autox for the time being, I really don't care either.
| JustAScoobyGrl | 10-23-2005 12:17 AM |
See - here's the issue. The Rule Book does not mention anything about the AccessPort - it's not a piggyback, nor is it a reflash. And the performance maps DO MODIFY boost levels - I haven't looked into all the different available maps, but I would probably just get some tuning done by a professional tune shop (making sure not to modify the boost) to make sure it's STX legal.
| waktasz | 10-23-2005 12:19 AM |
AP is a reflash. Also, there is a Cobb STX map that they say doesn't modify boost maps but people on here have said that maybe it does...so it technically won't be legal.
| IBAUCLAPlaya | 10-23-2005 11:08 AM |
Rumor is they don't modify the actual boost values, but because of the speed limiter removal, the wastegate duty cycles are altered. Or something like that...
| ChrisW | 10-23-2005 01:25 PM |
[QUOTE=IBAUCLAPlaya]Rumor is they don't modify the actual boost values, but because of the speed limiter removal, the wastegate duty cycles are altered. Or something like that...[/QUOTE]
In a nutshell, the Cobb accessport changes the open loop/ closed loop operation which on turbo cars indirectly modifies the selected boost map.
Cobb has been made aware of this, and as far as I know, they are looking for some clarification on this from the SCCA.
In a nutshell, the Cobb accessport changes the open loop/ closed loop operation which on turbo cars indirectly modifies the selected boost map.
Cobb has been made aware of this, and as far as I know, they are looking for some clarification on this from the SCCA.
| Nixlimited | 10-23-2005 01:57 PM |
Damn, so I have accidentaly slipped into street modified already...That class is brutal as that is where my M3 runs - and gets murdered in.
| vintagemilano | 10-23-2005 11:03 PM |
If you (or anyone) is really just starting out in autocrossing, your main goal should be having fun, not maximizing car prep. The first year or two are all about seat time, more is better. Most local clubs have a class that is "unknown street tire" for all the new people and the ones there just to have fun. Don't worry about car prep until the good guys don't beat you in your own car..... :-)
| DrBiggly | 10-23-2005 11:54 PM |
Here is the simplest advice from a fairly regular autoxer:
1) Put yourself in whatever class you may fall in regardless of how silly your mods may seem. You don't do it for competitiveness, you do it because them's the rules.
2) If one gets to where they really enjoy autoxing a lot and want to prep the car for a specific class, then go for it.
3) If you don't fall under #2, then don't complain as the rules aren't really setup for folks who aren't at least partly serious. Either change to fit somewhere that you're competitive or just go out and take your beating as it's dealt. Compare times to friends and folks that are where you should be instead of worrying about the particular class. Yes, it sucks...I've been there. But that doesn't mean it's not still fun to participate. :)
The reason that most folks get confused is that the rules are both a little confusing, and quite frankly a bit intimidating. The easiest way to look at the rules is backwards from how most folks think.
Example: "Well it doesn't say I can't put on an underbrace!"
Answer: The rules never will. The rules are inclusive and not exclusive
Since the rules tell what is allowed, when someone is wanting to justify that a particular modification fits in the class they want to run in the burden of proof is upon the competitor to show where in the rules it says that particular modification is allowed for the class. Saying it the simple way, if it isn't in there then it isn't allowed.
What happens is that folks with cars setup to be fun driving around town really aren't optimized for autox, and vice versa. There are very specific reasons why folks trailer their autox cars and it definitely isn't because the ride is quite so fun to get to an event.
So for those who are just getting started and wondering why the autox regulars are "picking" on you about class and telling you to get legal it isn't because they don't want you there, they just have invested lots of time and energy into fitting their setups within the appropriate rules structure and you'd like to play then they'd like you to do it properly. :)
-Biggly
1) Put yourself in whatever class you may fall in regardless of how silly your mods may seem. You don't do it for competitiveness, you do it because them's the rules.
2) If one gets to where they really enjoy autoxing a lot and want to prep the car for a specific class, then go for it.
3) If you don't fall under #2, then don't complain as the rules aren't really setup for folks who aren't at least partly serious. Either change to fit somewhere that you're competitive or just go out and take your beating as it's dealt. Compare times to friends and folks that are where you should be instead of worrying about the particular class. Yes, it sucks...I've been there. But that doesn't mean it's not still fun to participate. :)
The reason that most folks get confused is that the rules are both a little confusing, and quite frankly a bit intimidating. The easiest way to look at the rules is backwards from how most folks think.
Example: "Well it doesn't say I can't put on an underbrace!"
Answer: The rules never will. The rules are inclusive and not exclusive
Since the rules tell what is allowed, when someone is wanting to justify that a particular modification fits in the class they want to run in the burden of proof is upon the competitor to show where in the rules it says that particular modification is allowed for the class. Saying it the simple way, if it isn't in there then it isn't allowed.
What happens is that folks with cars setup to be fun driving around town really aren't optimized for autox, and vice versa. There are very specific reasons why folks trailer their autox cars and it definitely isn't because the ride is quite so fun to get to an event.
So for those who are just getting started and wondering why the autox regulars are "picking" on you about class and telling you to get legal it isn't because they don't want you there, they just have invested lots of time and energy into fitting their setups within the appropriate rules structure and you'd like to play then they'd like you to do it properly. :)
-Biggly
| Storm | 10-24-2005 07:14 AM |
Well said..... Darn near STICKY material!
Jay Storm
Jay Storm
| Nixlimited | 10-24-2005 10:51 AM |
Yes, thanks again for all the feedback. Since I have been planning on a turbo upgrade for quite some time, I may as well get used to finding myself in a near unlimited class. I would just prefer to be in a class on street tires.
| sciolist | 10-24-2005 12:16 PM |
[QUOTE=JustAScoobyGrl]See - here's the issue. The Rule Book does not mention anything about the AccessPort - it's not a piggyback, nor is it a reflash. And the performance maps DO MODIFY boost levels - I haven't looked into all the different available maps, but I would probably just get some tuning done by a professional tune shop (making sure not to modify the boost) to make sure it's STX legal.[/QUOTE]
I think you have to accept the fact that the solo rules are going to continue to evolve. Part of their evolutionary process will derive from the results of protests at national events. There are going to be situations where subsequent iterations of the rules yield more conservative results.
As far as I know, 2005 was the first year that the so-called "SP-legal" and "ST-legal" maps were tested by protest. I believe the full repercussions of that process have yet to be felt. So, you would probably have been fine with one of these maps this past season, but that may not be the case in 2006. It looks like this will be a moot point for SP if the ECU boost restriction is lifted, but I think there is still quite a bit of water yet to flow under the ST bridge.
I think you have to accept the fact that the solo rules are going to continue to evolve. Part of their evolutionary process will derive from the results of protests at national events. There are going to be situations where subsequent iterations of the rules yield more conservative results.
As far as I know, 2005 was the first year that the so-called "SP-legal" and "ST-legal" maps were tested by protest. I believe the full repercussions of that process have yet to be felt. So, you would probably have been fine with one of these maps this past season, but that may not be the case in 2006. It looks like this will be a moot point for SP if the ECU boost restriction is lifted, but I think there is still quite a bit of water yet to flow under the ST bridge.
| jcroy66 | 10-24-2005 03:26 PM |
OK, I must have had my head in the ground. What car, what class, what event? I had no idea there was a protest in 2005 for a "SP-legal" or "ST-legal" map.
| Got Pink? | 10-24-2005 04:31 PM |
Yeah what car was it? This is like a landmark supreme court case that will let us stop bickering over what is and is not legal.
| DrBiggly | 10-24-2005 05:06 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]OK, I must have had my head in the ground. What car, what class, what event? I had no idea there was a protest in 2005 for a "SP-legal" or "ST-legal" map.[/QUOTE]
News to me. I never heard a word about it. :confused:
News to me. I never heard a word about it. :confused:
| buzz313th | 10-24-2005 05:46 PM |
The Ecutek and Cobb Reflash software are exactly the same tool, with a different way of doing it. Both pieces of software are a reflash of the original subaru ECU. Both pieces of software have the ability to make a car STX legal or not. Both pieces of software can adjust the primary tuning tables, this includes all of the tables that directly affect the turbo operation. If those tables that directly affect the turbo are changed from what the ECU came with in stock form, then the ECU is a protestable item. If any of the other tables or values that do not affect the direct operation of the turbo are changed then you are waisting your time protesting.
In regards to the 02-05 WRX, changing the Open Loop/Closed Loop triggers do not affect the direct operation of the turbocharger. In regards to the 02-05 WRX, the Open Loop/Closed Loop triggers only affect when the ecu decides to use a Stoichometric AFR or to use the Primary AFR lookup table.
Uknown to most people..... The tables that control the turbocharger in stock form, have different values depending on the ECU type installed. So..... for each particular ECU model number (and I think from the 02-05 there were about 20 USDM ones) there may very well be dozens of different "Stock" Turbo maps. When your friendly tuner decides to flash your car with a custom tune, does he/she know really what the stock values are for your particular ECU model? Or did they just take the values from one of the very first subarus that they ever tuned as "stock values" and apply it to your car, not knowing what the actual values of your ECU had when it was stock.
This ECU legal or not thing is just like a broken record... IMHO, and I have mentioned this before, the only way to solve this issue, is to mandate restrictor plates.
JB
In regards to the 02-05 WRX, changing the Open Loop/Closed Loop triggers do not affect the direct operation of the turbocharger. In regards to the 02-05 WRX, the Open Loop/Closed Loop triggers only affect when the ecu decides to use a Stoichometric AFR or to use the Primary AFR lookup table.
Uknown to most people..... The tables that control the turbocharger in stock form, have different values depending on the ECU type installed. So..... for each particular ECU model number (and I think from the 02-05 there were about 20 USDM ones) there may very well be dozens of different "Stock" Turbo maps. When your friendly tuner decides to flash your car with a custom tune, does he/she know really what the stock values are for your particular ECU model? Or did they just take the values from one of the very first subarus that they ever tuned as "stock values" and apply it to your car, not knowing what the actual values of your ECU had when it was stock.
This ECU legal or not thing is just like a broken record... IMHO, and I have mentioned this before, the only way to solve this issue, is to mandate restrictor plates.
JB
| trhoppe | 10-24-2005 08:17 PM |
[quote]Uknown to most people..... The tables that control the turbocharger in stock form, have different values depending on the ECU type installed. So..... for each particular ECU model number (and I think from the 02-05 there were about 20 USDM ones) there may very well be dozens of different "Stock" Turbo maps. When your friendly tuner decides to flash your car with a custom tune, does he/she know really what the stock values are for your particular ECU model? Or did they just take the values from one of the very first subarus that they ever tuned as "stock values" and apply it to your car, not knowing what the actual values of your ECU had when it was stock.[/quote] Sorry bud, EVERYONE is the same ;) We looked at a ton of them for an advantage.
-Tom
-Tom
| sciolist | 10-27-2005 05:21 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]OK, I must have had my head in the ground. What car, what class, what event? I had no idea there was a protest in 2005 for a "SP-legal" or "ST-legal" map.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I thought this had come to a head at nationals, but I must be mistaken.
The main point is that it's a highly contentious issue that has yet to be fully resolved, and it looks like ST is where things will be hashed out.
Sorry, I thought this had come to a head at nationals, but I must be mistaken.
The main point is that it's a highly contentious issue that has yet to be fully resolved, and it looks like ST is where things will be hashed out.
| buzz313th | 10-27-2005 05:41 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Sorry bud, EVERYONE is the same ;) We looked at a ton of them for an advantage.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
It's true Tom, almost every single revision has some, if not major changes to the boost tables. If in fact you did pull the rom files off of stock ECU's and had a hex reader, then in fact you found which ECU has the most agressive boost values.
You just can't look at the Ecutek library, since it does not reflect the actual values that are stored in the Stock Rom Files.
JB
-Tom[/QUOTE]
It's true Tom, almost every single revision has some, if not major changes to the boost tables. If in fact you did pull the rom files off of stock ECU's and had a hex reader, then in fact you found which ECU has the most agressive boost values.
You just can't look at the Ecutek library, since it does not reflect the actual values that are stored in the Stock Rom Files.
JB
| trhoppe | 10-27-2005 06:00 PM |
We looked at like 20 of them, and couldn't find one with an advantage. Maybe it was a bad batch.
-Tom
who is glad to not have to deal with that anymore, also BSP will be SO much easier for everyone
-Tom
who is glad to not have to deal with that anymore, also BSP will be SO much easier for everyone
| DrBiggly | 10-27-2005 10:28 PM |
[QUOTE=buzz313th]It's true Tom, almost every single revision has some, if not major changes to the boost tables. If in fact you did pull the rom files off of stock ECU's and had a hex reader, then in fact you found which ECU has the most agressive boost values.
You just can't look at the Ecutek library, since it does not reflect the actual values that are stored in the Stock Rom Files.
JB[/QUOTE]
I'm quite interested. Tell me more... :)
-Biggly
You just can't look at the Ecutek library, since it does not reflect the actual values that are stored in the Stock Rom Files.
JB[/QUOTE]
I'm quite interested. Tell me more... :)
-Biggly
| buzz313th | 10-28-2005 11:13 AM |
Email me... I will give you my number... There is a contact at SOA that can explain everything...
[email="[email�protected]"][email�protected][/email]
Not that I really give a **** about it... But it just proves how rediculous this boost thing is.
JB
[email="[email�protected]"][email�protected][/email]
Not that I really give a **** about it... But it just proves how rediculous this boost thing is.
JB
| DrBiggly | 10-28-2005 02:44 PM |
Sure thing.
So are you suggesting that the ST classes follow the way of SP classes and deregulate boost for the sake of sanity? :)
-Biggly
So are you suggesting that the ST classes follow the way of SP classes and deregulate boost for the sake of sanity? :)
-Biggly
| shemoves | 10-28-2005 02:53 PM |
H brace puts you all the way up to E-modified. I have the Cusco V. 2 and the Tanabe...sure I am not that competive, but I can do WHATEVER I WANT to my car and never worry about getting bumped to a different class. Autox is about fun for me so I don't really care about my class. If you are looking to actually compete, then take the brace off on track days.
| MrDestructo | 10-28-2005 03:17 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Sure thing.
So are you suggesting that the ST classes follow the way of SP classes and deregulate boost for the sake of sanity? :)
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
I don't think that is a good idea. I already think ST and SP aren't far enough apart, and the '06 SP boost change help to move them away from each other.
So are you suggesting that the ST classes follow the way of SP classes and deregulate boost for the sake of sanity? :)
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
I don't think that is a good idea. I already think ST and SP aren't far enough apart, and the '06 SP boost change help to move them away from each other.
| Uber Wagon | 10-28-2005 03:50 PM |
[QUOTE=MrDestructo]I don't think that is a good idea. I already think ST and SP aren't far enough apart, and the '06 SP boost change help to move them away from each other.[/QUOTE]
While this is true, it does mean that every winning turbo car in STX, STU, etc. will still be accussed of cheating. I don't see what ST can't just use SP rules with street tires.
While this is true, it does mean that every winning turbo car in STX, STU, etc. will still be accussed of cheating. I don't see what ST can't just use SP rules with street tires.
| Shavenyak | 10-28-2005 05:08 PM |
[QUOTE=MrDestructo]I don't think that is a good idea. I already think ST and SP aren't far enough apart, and the '06 SP boost change help to move them away from each other.[/QUOTE]
I think the boost de-regulation is basically the officials throwing their hands up in the air regarding the time and effort required to regulate boost. I would expect STU and STX to go the same way since it's just too much of a pain in the arse.
--Roman
I think the boost de-regulation is basically the officials throwing their hands up in the air regarding the time and effort required to regulate boost. I would expect STU and STX to go the same way since it's just too much of a pain in the arse.
--Roman
| jcroy66 | 10-29-2005 08:11 AM |
[QUOTE=SCOOBY-RU]I think the boost de-regulation is basically the officials throwing their hands up in the air regarding the time and effort required to regulate boost.[/QUOTE]Huh? What "time and effort"?? There's basically no regulation of ANYTHING in Solo. Other than the occasional "fishing expedition" that the SEB will order for a class, just to try to keep everyone on their toes. But by and large, Solo legality is competitor-driven. You think someone's cheating? Put up your money, say how they're cheating, and how you want it checked. I do not know of any boost-related protests in the last 2 years at least.
| MrDestructo | 10-29-2005 09:00 AM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]I do not know of any boost-related protests in the last 2 years at least.[/QUOTE]
and there in lies the problem. There is no agreed upon way to check it, so there is no way to protest it.
and there in lies the problem. There is no agreed upon way to check it, so there is no way to protest it.
| Shavenyak | 10-29-2005 10:37 AM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]Huh? What "time and effort"?? There's basically no regulation of ANYTHING in Solo. Other than the occasional "fishing expedition" that the SEB will order for a class, just to try to keep everyone on their toes. But by and large, Solo legality is competitor-driven. You think someone's cheating? Put up your money, say how they're cheating, and how you want it checked. I do not know of any boost-related protests in the last 2 years at least.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about protests. I'd heard that they were going as far as checking ECU's for boost protests. Maybe I heard wrong.
--Roman
Edit: Here's Tom Hoppe talking about his boost protest from 2002:
[QUOTE]A deltadash test and a boost gauge test will be enough for a nationals protest. A boost gauge by itself was good enough for my boost protest last year at nationals.[/QUOTE]
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4131271&postcount=23]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4131271&postcount=23[/URL]
With the restriction lift, if someone wants to protest boost, then the officials don't have to have the equipment to check the ECU. See what I'm getting at?
I'm talking about protests. I'd heard that they were going as far as checking ECU's for boost protests. Maybe I heard wrong.
--Roman
Edit: Here's Tom Hoppe talking about his boost protest from 2002:
[QUOTE]A deltadash test and a boost gauge test will be enough for a nationals protest. A boost gauge by itself was good enough for my boost protest last year at nationals.[/QUOTE]
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4131271&postcount=23]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4131271&postcount=23[/URL]
With the restriction lift, if someone wants to protest boost, then the officials don't have to have the equipment to check the ECU. See what I'm getting at?
| buzz313th | 10-29-2005 12:39 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Sure thing.
So are you suggesting that the ST classes follow the way of SP classes and deregulate boost for the sake of sanity? :)
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
Can't deregulate boost in ST. Then the WRX's would move to STU and where would the STI's go?
JB
In ST, I feel we should run restrictor plates.
So are you suggesting that the ST classes follow the way of SP classes and deregulate boost for the sake of sanity? :)
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
Can't deregulate boost in ST. Then the WRX's would move to STU and where would the STI's go?
JB
In ST, I feel we should run restrictor plates.
| Uber Wagon | 10-29-2005 12:55 PM |
While restrictor plates might work for national level cars, I think that totally negates the draw of the street tire classes for the masses.
How many new competitors are going to come back when they are told, "Yup your car is perfect for ST*, let me just put this tiny hole in front of your turbo and you'll be on your way...."
How many new competitors are going to come back when they are told, "Yup your car is perfect for ST*, let me just put this tiny hole in front of your turbo and you'll be on your way...."
| DrBiggly | 10-29-2005 01:19 PM |
[QUOTE=buzz313th]Can't deregulate boost in ST. Then the WRX's would move to STU and where would the STI's go?
JB
In ST, I feel we should run restrictor plates.[/QUOTE]
Restrictor plates are not the way to go for ST classes. :)
-Biggly
JB
In ST, I feel we should run restrictor plates.[/QUOTE]
Restrictor plates are not the way to go for ST classes. :)
-Biggly
| jcroy66 | 10-29-2005 01:21 PM |
Wasn't Hoppe competing in stock in 2002?
| Draken | 10-29-2005 02:25 PM |
Yes, Hoppe was in DS in 2002. He got protested mostly because his WRX would walk away from Larry Fine off the line at the ProFinale. Boost was not the advantage...the little 215/40-16 Hoosiers gave him much shorter gearing than the 225/50-16 setup Larry was running.
The boost testing actually showed Hoppe making less than Fine.
And I agree with Bigglyson....restrictor plates are a horrible solution for ST classes.
Chris H.
The boost testing actually showed Hoppe making less than Fine.
And I agree with Bigglyson....restrictor plates are a horrible solution for ST classes.
Chris H.
| foxdeman | 10-29-2005 08:45 PM |
To get back on topic for just a second.
If this is your first autoX then dont worry about what class you are in, especially in such a competitive area as California. As long as you are not knocking competitive people out of points positions they wont care. You will know who you should be competitive against and what pax numbers to use to compare yourself to the other drivers. For the first few years you should really concentrate on your driving; be smooth, find the proper line, and learn to find your breaking points while you walk(and then hit them during your runs). As you get more and more into autoX you will start to build your car towards a class(you may even get a dedicated car for one!).
My biggest piece of advice is to tell the worker chief that you are new to this and ask them to put you at a corner with someone who has done this for a long time. You can ask questions and they will share a bunch of knowledge that you cant get from the internet. Take the novice walk through and PAY ATTENTION, dont get caught up with the crowd at the back that talks about how they are going to drift through every corner.
A smaller piece of advice is to find some friends to go with. Meet at a McDonalds before hand and caravan there. If you have someone else going you will be more likely to go to more events. And dont be afraid to talk to people there, it can get boring catching cones and sitting in grid for a long time. Autocross is as much a social event as it is a race.
If this is your first autoX then dont worry about what class you are in, especially in such a competitive area as California. As long as you are not knocking competitive people out of points positions they wont care. You will know who you should be competitive against and what pax numbers to use to compare yourself to the other drivers. For the first few years you should really concentrate on your driving; be smooth, find the proper line, and learn to find your breaking points while you walk(and then hit them during your runs). As you get more and more into autoX you will start to build your car towards a class(you may even get a dedicated car for one!).
My biggest piece of advice is to tell the worker chief that you are new to this and ask them to put you at a corner with someone who has done this for a long time. You can ask questions and they will share a bunch of knowledge that you cant get from the internet. Take the novice walk through and PAY ATTENTION, dont get caught up with the crowd at the back that talks about how they are going to drift through every corner.
A smaller piece of advice is to find some friends to go with. Meet at a McDonalds before hand and caravan there. If you have someone else going you will be more likely to go to more events. And dont be afraid to talk to people there, it can get boring catching cones and sitting in grid for a long time. Autocross is as much a social event as it is a race.
| Nixlimited | 10-29-2005 09:58 PM |
[QUOTE=foxdeman]To get back on topic for just a second.
If this is your first autoX then dont worry about what class you are in, especially in such a competitive area as California. As long as you are not knocking competitive people out of points positions they wont care. You will know who you should be competitive against and what pax numbers to use to compare yourself to the other drivers. For the first few years you should really concentrate on your driving; be smooth, find the proper line, and learn to find your breaking points while you walk(and then hit them during your runs). As you get more and more into autoX you will start to build your car towards a class(you may even get a dedicated car for one!).
My biggest piece of advice is to tell the worker chief that you are new to this and ask them to put you at a corner with someone who has done this for a long time. You can ask questions and they will share a bunch of knowledge that you cant get from the internet. Take the novice walk through and PAY ATTENTION, dont get caught up with the crowd at the back that talks about how they are going to drift through every corner.
A smaller piece of advice is to find some friends to go with. Meet at a McDonalds before hand and caravan there. If you have someone else going you will be more likely to go to more events. And dont be afraid to talk to people there, it can get boring catching cones and sitting in grid for a long time. Autocross is as much a social event as it is a race.[/QUOTE]
All good advice, but I am not new to this, I have been autoxing my M3 for years. I am just looking to get competitive at this since my other car is not at all competitive in its class (SM).
If this is your first autoX then dont worry about what class you are in, especially in such a competitive area as California. As long as you are not knocking competitive people out of points positions they wont care. You will know who you should be competitive against and what pax numbers to use to compare yourself to the other drivers. For the first few years you should really concentrate on your driving; be smooth, find the proper line, and learn to find your breaking points while you walk(and then hit them during your runs). As you get more and more into autoX you will start to build your car towards a class(you may even get a dedicated car for one!).
My biggest piece of advice is to tell the worker chief that you are new to this and ask them to put you at a corner with someone who has done this for a long time. You can ask questions and they will share a bunch of knowledge that you cant get from the internet. Take the novice walk through and PAY ATTENTION, dont get caught up with the crowd at the back that talks about how they are going to drift through every corner.
A smaller piece of advice is to find some friends to go with. Meet at a McDonalds before hand and caravan there. If you have someone else going you will be more likely to go to more events. And dont be afraid to talk to people there, it can get boring catching cones and sitting in grid for a long time. Autocross is as much a social event as it is a race.[/QUOTE]
All good advice, but I am not new to this, I have been autoxing my M3 for years. I am just looking to get competitive at this since my other car is not at all competitive in its class (SM).
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