| fweidner | 11-16-2006 08:15 AM |
Street cars run in Ontario Performance Rally
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Non-competitors with street cars allowed to run at Tall Pines Rally in Ontario, Canada
For the first time in history, non-competitors will be allowed to run their street cars on the stages along side the rally teams during the recce. Of course the recce is on open roads, so speed limits and traffic laws must be obeyed at all times.
This is awesome.
Have you spectated before and dreamed of running the stages yourself?
Now you can.
Tall Pines organisers are hosting a rally school and allowing non-competitors to run the stages during the recce.
What is recce?
All competitors are allowed to run the stages prior to the event to check the routebook against the actual stages.
When? Thursday night, Nov 23 and Friday all day, Nov 24
Where? Bancroft Ontario, 2.5 hrs north east of Toronto
What? You get a route book plus classroom instruction
Why? Good value compared to other training schools
How? More info / sign up at: [URL="http://www.tallpinesrally.com/TallPines/Default.aspx?tabid=162"][U][COLOR=#484877]http://www.tallpinesrally.com/TallPi...aspx?tabid=162[/COLOR][/U][/URL]
See you there
SIGN UP TODAY. SPACE IS LIMITED!!!
For the first time in history, non-competitors will be allowed to run their street cars on the stages along side the rally teams during the recce. Of course the recce is on open roads, so speed limits and traffic laws must be obeyed at all times.
This is awesome.
Have you spectated before and dreamed of running the stages yourself?
Now you can.
Tall Pines organisers are hosting a rally school and allowing non-competitors to run the stages during the recce.
What is recce?
All competitors are allowed to run the stages prior to the event to check the routebook against the actual stages.
When? Thursday night, Nov 23 and Friday all day, Nov 24
Where? Bancroft Ontario, 2.5 hrs north east of Toronto
What? You get a route book plus classroom instruction
Why? Good value compared to other training schools
How? More info / sign up at: [URL="http://www.tallpinesrally.com/TallPines/Default.aspx?tabid=162"][U][COLOR=#484877]http://www.tallpinesrally.com/TallPi...aspx?tabid=162[/COLOR][/U][/URL]
See you there
SIGN UP TODAY. SPACE IS LIMITED!!!
| bjorn240 | 11-16-2006 09:10 AM |
Boy, I really don't like calling this "running" the stages. I think that sets the wrong idea for what should be done during recce or a notes familiarization. The idea of newbies thinking this is a good time to test their gravel driving abilities sends chills down my spine.
| mike270 | 11-16-2006 09:29 AM |
I agree with Christian, great idea and a great way to bring more spectators to the sport, but if it's not effectively speed controlled somehow it could get ugly. Luckily it seems like the organizers have thought about this...
"* Please note that the NFP is run on open roads and is not a timed event. It is likely that Participants will encounter local and oncoming traffic. It is of utmost importance to the Rally of the Tall Pines that all Participants behave responsibly while driving on public roads. Participants will be monitored by NFP & Radar Marshals to ensure they follow the rules outlined in the NFP Guidelines and thay they obey all imposed speed limits and rules of the road. Failure to do so will result in forfeit of your $100 performance deposit and possible exclusion from the NFP. A full refund of the $100 Performance Deposit will be given to each team on successfull (incident free) completion of the NFP. "
"* Please note that the NFP is run on open roads and is not a timed event. It is likely that Participants will encounter local and oncoming traffic. It is of utmost importance to the Rally of the Tall Pines that all Participants behave responsibly while driving on public roads. Participants will be monitored by NFP & Radar Marshals to ensure they follow the rules outlined in the NFP Guidelines and thay they obey all imposed speed limits and rules of the road. Failure to do so will result in forfeit of your $100 performance deposit and possible exclusion from the NFP. A full refund of the $100 Performance Deposit will be given to each team on successfull (incident free) completion of the NFP. "
| Doug Woods | 11-16-2006 10:51 AM |
Rest assured that this will be happening under very controlled conditions.
First, you have to pay $350 and then attend the school the night before (so your actual outlay of cash is going to be well over $500).
Second, everyone will be fully briefed on what is and what is not acceptable driving behaviour on the NFP.
Third, the stage roads during the NFP will be full of observers and radar guns.
Fourth, if a person demonstrates during the school or the driver's briefing that they are likely to be a problem, then it is highly unlikely that they will be permitted to do the NFP.
Doug Woods
Tall Pines Steward (and one of the people that will be observing driver behaviour during the NFP)
First, you have to pay $350 and then attend the school the night before (so your actual outlay of cash is going to be well over $500).
Second, everyone will be fully briefed on what is and what is not acceptable driving behaviour on the NFP.
Third, the stage roads during the NFP will be full of observers and radar guns.
Fourth, if a person demonstrates during the school or the driver's briefing that they are likely to be a problem, then it is highly unlikely that they will be permitted to do the NFP.
Doug Woods
Tall Pines Steward (and one of the people that will be observing driver behaviour during the NFP)
| Yotsuya | 11-16-2006 10:55 AM |
If you work starts you get to 'run' the stage with all the lines and braking points already set for you.
| fweidner | 11-16-2006 11:52 AM |
Tall Pines Recce for non-competitors
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Actually the cost is $350.00 Canadian and you get $100.00 back if you behave.
So, total cost is only $250.00 for a school night and all day recce!
i.e. cheap training!
So, total cost is only $250.00 for a school night and all day recce!
i.e. cheap training!
| Mopho | 11-16-2006 12:02 PM |
[QUOTE=Doug Woods;16011828]Rest assured that this will be happening under very controlled conditions.
First, you have to pay $350 and then attend the school the night before (so your actual outlay of cash is going to be well over $500).
Second, everyone will be fully briefed on what is and what is not acceptable driving behaviour on the NFP.
Third, the stage roads during the NFP will be full of observers and radar guns.
Fourth, if a person demonstrates during the school or the driver's briefing that they are likely to be a problem, then it is highly unlikely that they will be permitted to do the NFP.
Doug Woods
Tall Pines Steward (and one of the people that will be observing driver behaviour during the NFP)[/QUOTE]
I am confused, if you already have a drivers license, what exactly is this $250 school going to teach you about driving the speed limit on a public road that you don't already know?
Why would you pay the money when you could drive the public roads for free during the recce (or any other day before or after the rally for that matter)?
And at such a steep price, I can't imagine a lot of people will do this (which is good since extra traffic during recce would be bad), so how is this going to promote the sport?
First, you have to pay $350 and then attend the school the night before (so your actual outlay of cash is going to be well over $500).
Second, everyone will be fully briefed on what is and what is not acceptable driving behaviour on the NFP.
Third, the stage roads during the NFP will be full of observers and radar guns.
Fourth, if a person demonstrates during the school or the driver's briefing that they are likely to be a problem, then it is highly unlikely that they will be permitted to do the NFP.
Doug Woods
Tall Pines Steward (and one of the people that will be observing driver behaviour during the NFP)[/QUOTE]
I am confused, if you already have a drivers license, what exactly is this $250 school going to teach you about driving the speed limit on a public road that you don't already know?
Why would you pay the money when you could drive the public roads for free during the recce (or any other day before or after the rally for that matter)?
And at such a steep price, I can't imagine a lot of people will do this (which is good since extra traffic during recce would be bad), so how is this going to promote the sport?
| IT Swift | 11-16-2006 12:06 PM |
[quote=Mopho;16012870]I am confused, if you already have a drivers license, what exactly is this $500 school going to teach you about driving the speed limit on a public road that you don't already know?[/quote]
And, if the recce is run like NASA events, what is going to prevent people from just following a known team recce car through the stages without paying any money at all? For NASA recce, it's an open road just like any normal day, so there is nothing preventing joe-sixpack from driving down the stage with the rally teams...
And, if the recce is run like NASA events, what is going to prevent people from just following a known team recce car through the stages without paying any money at all? For NASA recce, it's an open road just like any normal day, so there is nothing preventing joe-sixpack from driving down the stage with the rally teams...
| bjorn240 | 11-16-2006 12:18 PM |
The money gets you a recce roadbook and some discussion/education about what notes are.
| REDrum | 11-16-2006 12:31 PM |
[QUOTE=fweidner;16010223]For the first time in history, non-competitors will be allowed to run their street cars on the stages along side the rally teams during the recce.[/QUOTE]
Dude, your post is BS and irresponsible.
Many events allow people to just recce the stages for a fee, what you are doing is not novel. You are also giving the impression the people will be 'running' at speed while recc'ing, and that is not the case.
I'm fine with you promoting your rally school, but don't do it with the false expectation of providing gravel seat time. There are many ways (as noted here and on SS) that your promotion could backfire on the event and sport.
Dude, your post is BS and irresponsible.
Many events allow people to just recce the stages for a fee, what you are doing is not novel. You are also giving the impression the people will be 'running' at speed while recc'ing, and that is not the case.
I'm fine with you promoting your rally school, but don't do it with the false expectation of providing gravel seat time. There are many ways (as noted here and on SS) that your promotion could backfire on the event and sport.
| Doug Woods | 11-16-2006 12:47 PM |
Give the organizers some credit for having evaluated all the pros and cons of experimenting with this concept of a paid rally school/NFP opportunity and for planning how it will be run and controlled.
As I said on Special Stage, I consider the Tall Pines organizers to be the best rally organizing team in North America. They are not going to place their event or the sport in jeopardy.
Doug Woods
As I said on Special Stage, I consider the Tall Pines organizers to be the best rally organizing team in North America. They are not going to place their event or the sport in jeopardy.
Doug Woods
| RB5 Clone | 11-16-2006 04:17 PM |
based on the original (somewhat sensationalized) post, I thought this sounded like a spectacularly bad idea.
then, finding out more about the TP notes-teaching program and who's putting it on (and who would be keeping tabs on the newbies out there), I've come full circle. One of the best parts of this idea is that it concentrates on teaching rally by empahasizing CODRIVER type skills instead of just somehow becoming a "godlike rallye pilote."
If more ppl started out in rally with learning the RALLY part of the game instead of just focusing on the hardware and driving part, they might be a whole lot better at it, and stick around longer.
Dave G
missing Tall Pines for 1st time in 4 years
then, finding out more about the TP notes-teaching program and who's putting it on (and who would be keeping tabs on the newbies out there), I've come full circle. One of the best parts of this idea is that it concentrates on teaching rally by empahasizing CODRIVER type skills instead of just somehow becoming a "godlike rallye pilote."
If more ppl started out in rally with learning the RALLY part of the game instead of just focusing on the hardware and driving part, they might be a whole lot better at it, and stick around longer.
Dave G
missing Tall Pines for 1st time in 4 years
| REDrum | 11-16-2006 04:33 PM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone;16016547]...the best parts of this idea is that it concentrates on teaching rally by empahasizing CODRIVER type skills...[/QUOTE]
I fully concur, and hope the class goes well. I just have trouble with what the original post is inferring.
I fully concur, and hope the class goes well. I just have trouble with what the original post is inferring.
| Mavrik | 11-16-2006 04:39 PM |
Damn now that I'm no longer living in Ontario... they do this? great lol. Now I'm going to have to tell my friends there and see if they wanna enter. Sounds fun.
| Protege Menace | 11-16-2006 05:38 PM |
we should start a pool on how many wrecks there will be.
| Evo3Codriver | 11-16-2006 09:14 PM |
Moron original post
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How about this:
I am going to be participating in the recee as a competitor. If I see any blatant disregard for saftey, I will kick your ass before Doug Woods kicks you out and keeps your $. We all want to be invited back next year.
I am going to be participating in the recee as a competitor. If I see any blatant disregard for saftey, I will kick your ass before Doug Woods kicks you out and keeps your $. We all want to be invited back next year.
| TallPinesRally | 11-16-2006 10:11 PM |
Fred, I would like to correct some of your statements. To everyone else, please note that FRED's post is NOT an official statement from the Rally of the Tall Pines.
The Tall Pines is offering a Rally School. The purpose of this school is to teach those involved in rally and those interested in rally how to use Descriptive Stage Notes. The school has two parts: (1) A Rally School hosted by Expert Co-Driver Mark Williams that teaches how to use Descriptive Stage Notes and (2) participation in the Notes Familiarization Pass (NFP). We will also be teaching responsible behaviour while participating in the NFP. Speed limits must be obeyed or there will be penalties to any competitor or rally school student. Please note that the NFP is NOT RECCE! The NFP allows teams to familiarize themselves with the format of the Descriptive Stage Notes and gives them a chance to ADJUST the Organizer supplied notes prior to the rally.
Your comments are not accurate and are misleading. We do not allow rally cars to participate in the NFP. The NFP occurs on open public roads that will be policed by Police as well as radar marshall teams to ensure all participants (tall pines competitors as well as Rally School Students). Street cars only are allowed.
Rally School Students will mix with Compeitors. A limited number of spaces have been allocated for the Rally School which will not interfere with Competitors.
The Rally of the Tall Pines core committee has carefully thought through the Rally School program and we feel it an excellent opportunity to help educate the rally enthusiasts, competitors as well as help line up future competitors. Something which is VERY needed at the moment. In fact, Rally Sport Ontario (RSO) is planning similar schools, so this is not a new concept.
Fred, while I believe your post were well intentioned and meant to promote the program, you should be more careful when posting in the future to make sure you have all the facts straight first. This email is potentially damaging to the sport and has caused a distration for the Tall Pines Organizers.
For those interested in the Rally School, accurate information can be found on the tall pines website:
NFP Info: [url]http://www.tallpinesrally.com/TallPines/Default.aspx?tabid=125[/url]
Rally School Info: [url]http://www.tallpinesrally.com/TallPines/Default.aspx?tabid=162[/url]
Richard Hepburn
Coordinator - 2006 Rally of the Tall Pines, Bancroft ON.
The Tall Pines is offering a Rally School. The purpose of this school is to teach those involved in rally and those interested in rally how to use Descriptive Stage Notes. The school has two parts: (1) A Rally School hosted by Expert Co-Driver Mark Williams that teaches how to use Descriptive Stage Notes and (2) participation in the Notes Familiarization Pass (NFP). We will also be teaching responsible behaviour while participating in the NFP. Speed limits must be obeyed or there will be penalties to any competitor or rally school student. Please note that the NFP is NOT RECCE! The NFP allows teams to familiarize themselves with the format of the Descriptive Stage Notes and gives them a chance to ADJUST the Organizer supplied notes prior to the rally.
Your comments are not accurate and are misleading. We do not allow rally cars to participate in the NFP. The NFP occurs on open public roads that will be policed by Police as well as radar marshall teams to ensure all participants (tall pines competitors as well as Rally School Students). Street cars only are allowed.
Rally School Students will mix with Compeitors. A limited number of spaces have been allocated for the Rally School which will not interfere with Competitors.
The Rally of the Tall Pines core committee has carefully thought through the Rally School program and we feel it an excellent opportunity to help educate the rally enthusiasts, competitors as well as help line up future competitors. Something which is VERY needed at the moment. In fact, Rally Sport Ontario (RSO) is planning similar schools, so this is not a new concept.
Fred, while I believe your post were well intentioned and meant to promote the program, you should be more careful when posting in the future to make sure you have all the facts straight first. This email is potentially damaging to the sport and has caused a distration for the Tall Pines Organizers.
For those interested in the Rally School, accurate information can be found on the tall pines website:
NFP Info: [url]http://www.tallpinesrally.com/TallPines/Default.aspx?tabid=125[/url]
Rally School Info: [url]http://www.tallpinesrally.com/TallPines/Default.aspx?tabid=162[/url]
Richard Hepburn
Coordinator - 2006 Rally of the Tall Pines, Bancroft ON.
| Howl | 11-17-2006 09:07 AM |
Fred's a little over-enthusiastic sometimes. ;)
| dibblejr | 11-17-2006 09:42 AM |
I agree with you. When I used to run, during the course familiarization I would have hated to have non competitors next to me. This i believe is a recipe for disaster, having a person never running on a course trying to keep up and not knowing their reaction time could spell disatser and accident. Thus taking you out for the actual event.
I would be protesting/ contending this if I was a car owner.
Jay-R
[QUOTE=bjorn240;16010626]Boy, I really don't like calling this "running" the stages. I think that sets the wrong idea for what should be done during recce or a notes familiarization. The idea of newbies thinking this is a good time to test their gravel driving abilities sends chills down my spine.[/QUOTE]
I would be protesting/ contending this if I was a car owner.
Jay-R
[QUOTE=bjorn240;16010626]Boy, I really don't like calling this "running" the stages. I think that sets the wrong idea for what should be done during recce or a notes familiarization. The idea of newbies thinking this is a good time to test their gravel driving abilities sends chills down my spine.[/QUOTE]
| bjorn240 | 11-17-2006 10:19 AM |
Well, I think Richard addressed it well enough above. My concerns have been allayed.
| mykrrrr | 11-17-2006 06:42 PM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240;16024760]Well, I think Richard addressed it well enough above. My concerns have been allayed.[/QUOTE]
+1 to that.
+1 to that.
| fweidner | 11-18-2006 07:11 AM |
Learn to read english
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"Your comments are not accurate and are misleading. We do not allow rally cars to participate in the NFP"
Where in my post did I say that rally cars will be in the NFP?
Nowhere!! I said "rally teams" which last time I checked is what happens in a NFP!
"
non-competitors will be allowed to run their street cars on the stages along side the rally teams during the recce.
Tall Pines organisers are hosting a rally school and allowing non-competitors to run the stages during the recce."
pretty clear to me it's a rally school, during recce / NFP.
No where did I mention it would be against rally cars during competitive stages
"This email is potentially damaging to the sport" - sure, whatever you say buddy
Where in my post did I say that rally cars will be in the NFP?
Nowhere!! I said "rally teams" which last time I checked is what happens in a NFP!
"
non-competitors will be allowed to run their street cars on the stages along side the rally teams during the recce.
Tall Pines organisers are hosting a rally school and allowing non-competitors to run the stages during the recce."
pretty clear to me it's a rally school, during recce / NFP.
No where did I mention it would be against rally cars during competitive stages
"This email is potentially damaging to the sport" - sure, whatever you say buddy
| Veritas Una | 11-19-2006 12:49 AM |
[QUOTE]This email is potentially damaging to the sport and has caused a distration for the Tall Pines Organizers.[/QUOTE]
Yeah!
Go on; keep hiding behind politically correct statements! And while you do so, keep canceling DriveXes! (I don�t care if you were involved in those decisions or not, but you sure sound like the type!)
There are two kinds of guys who think that they are in rallying, those who go for �rally cruises� to �enjoy the scenery�; and those who drive like maniacs anywhere they can, to get the valuable seat time. Guess, who will more likely be the next champion? (Please, don�t lecture me how illegal and dangerous it is!)
Okay, maybe Fred added just a bit of spice to his post to attract those who have real potential! Why would you �correct� him!?
To make things clear?! Ahhh, no! To protect your bottom from any liability if anything happens!
That is so common and so pathetic. And don�t bother with excuses, they won�t get you far!
If now you�re thinking that you have contributed a lot to the sport and some youngster talks to you like this, my answer is � GET USED TO IT! In my eyes Fred has done much more for the sport, because he�s the only person I know who looks in the future, not in the past.
Leo
PS Please don�t bother responding, don�t bother making a debate out of it. Above is just an opinion of a person who threw 70k into a car and who wants to drive it the way it�s built for, not the way big brother tells him.
Yeah!
Go on; keep hiding behind politically correct statements! And while you do so, keep canceling DriveXes! (I don�t care if you were involved in those decisions or not, but you sure sound like the type!)
There are two kinds of guys who think that they are in rallying, those who go for �rally cruises� to �enjoy the scenery�; and those who drive like maniacs anywhere they can, to get the valuable seat time. Guess, who will more likely be the next champion? (Please, don�t lecture me how illegal and dangerous it is!)
Okay, maybe Fred added just a bit of spice to his post to attract those who have real potential! Why would you �correct� him!?
To make things clear?! Ahhh, no! To protect your bottom from any liability if anything happens!
That is so common and so pathetic. And don�t bother with excuses, they won�t get you far!
If now you�re thinking that you have contributed a lot to the sport and some youngster talks to you like this, my answer is � GET USED TO IT! In my eyes Fred has done much more for the sport, because he�s the only person I know who looks in the future, not in the past.
Leo
PS Please don�t bother responding, don�t bother making a debate out of it. Above is just an opinion of a person who threw 70k into a car and who wants to drive it the way it�s built for, not the way big brother tells him.
| Hyper | 11-19-2006 01:10 AM |
[QUOTE=Veritas Una;16041644]Above is just an opinion of a person who threw 70k into a car and who wants to drive it the way it�s built for, not the way big brother tells him.[/QUOTE]
:devil: ;)
:devil: ;)
| Jtree | 11-19-2006 02:01 AM |
[QUOTE=Veritas Una;16041644]Yeah!
Go on; keep hiding behind politically correct statements! And while you do so, keep canceling DriveXes! (I don�t care if you were involved in those decisions or not, but you sure sound like the type!)
There are two kinds of guys who think that they are in rallying, those who go for �rally cruises� to �enjoy the scenery�; and those who drive like maniacs anywhere they can, to get the valuable seat time. Guess, who will more likely be the next champion? (Please, don�t lecture me how illegal and dangerous it is!)
Okay, maybe Fred added just a bit of spice to his post to attract those who have real potential! Why would you �correct� him!?
To make things clear?! Ahhh, no! To protect your bottom from any liability if anything happens!
That is so common and so pathetic. And don�t bother with excuses, they won�t get you far!
If now you�re thinking that you have contributed a lot to the sport and some youngster talks to you like this, my answer is � GET USED TO IT! In my eyes Fred has done much more for the sport, because he�s the only person I know who looks in the future, not in the past.
Leo
PS Please don�t bother responding, don�t bother making a debate out of it. Above is just an opinion of a person who threw 70k into a car and who wants to drive it the way it�s built for, not the way big brother tells him.[/QUOTE]
take up drifting and stay the hell away from Rally.
Go on; keep hiding behind politically correct statements! And while you do so, keep canceling DriveXes! (I don�t care if you were involved in those decisions or not, but you sure sound like the type!)
There are two kinds of guys who think that they are in rallying, those who go for �rally cruises� to �enjoy the scenery�; and those who drive like maniacs anywhere they can, to get the valuable seat time. Guess, who will more likely be the next champion? (Please, don�t lecture me how illegal and dangerous it is!)
Okay, maybe Fred added just a bit of spice to his post to attract those who have real potential! Why would you �correct� him!?
To make things clear?! Ahhh, no! To protect your bottom from any liability if anything happens!
That is so common and so pathetic. And don�t bother with excuses, they won�t get you far!
If now you�re thinking that you have contributed a lot to the sport and some youngster talks to you like this, my answer is � GET USED TO IT! In my eyes Fred has done much more for the sport, because he�s the only person I know who looks in the future, not in the past.
Leo
PS Please don�t bother responding, don�t bother making a debate out of it. Above is just an opinion of a person who threw 70k into a car and who wants to drive it the way it�s built for, not the way big brother tells him.[/QUOTE]
take up drifting and stay the hell away from Rally.
| Howl | 11-19-2006 09:09 AM |
Fred, Leo, Hyper. Why don't you set up your own rally school, or RallyX track ( ;) ) and run it the way you want it run. Then you can advertize it the way YOU see fit. But don't hype other peoples events without their approval. The Tall Pines people may want this to be a "conservative" event, at least until they see if it works or not.
| REDrum | 11-19-2006 09:42 AM |
[QUOTE=Howl;16042963]Fred, Leo, Hyper. Why don't you set up your own rally school, or RallyX track and run it the way you want it run. Then you can advertize it the way YOU see fit. But don't hype other peoples events without their approval.[/QUOTE]
+1 FTW...
+1 FTW...
| AlanO | 11-19-2006 10:39 AM |
What a spectacular display of immaturity.
[QUOTE=Veritas Una;16041644]Yeah!
Go on; keep hiding behind politically correct statements! And while you do so, keep canceling DriveXes! (I don�t care if you were involved in those decisions or not, but you sure sound like the type!)
There are two kinds of guys who think that they are in rallying, those who go for �rally cruises� to �enjoy the scenery�; and those who drive like maniacs anywhere they can, to get the valuable seat time. Guess, who will more likely be the next champion? (Please, don�t lecture me how illegal and dangerous it is!)
Okay, maybe Fred added just a bit of spice to his post to attract those who have real potential! Why would you �correct� him!?
To make things clear?! Ahhh, no! To protect your bottom from any liability if anything happens!
That is so common and so pathetic. And don�t bother with excuses, they won�t get you far!
If now you�re thinking that you have contributed a lot to the sport and some youngster talks to you like this, my answer is � GET USED TO IT! In my eyes Fred has done much more for the sport, because he�s the only person I know who looks in the future, not in the past.
Leo
PS Please don�t bother responding, don�t bother making a debate out of it. Above is just an opinion of a person who threw 70k into a car and who wants to drive it the way it�s built for, not the way big brother tells him.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Veritas Una;16041644]Yeah!
Go on; keep hiding behind politically correct statements! And while you do so, keep canceling DriveXes! (I don�t care if you were involved in those decisions or not, but you sure sound like the type!)
There are two kinds of guys who think that they are in rallying, those who go for �rally cruises� to �enjoy the scenery�; and those who drive like maniacs anywhere they can, to get the valuable seat time. Guess, who will more likely be the next champion? (Please, don�t lecture me how illegal and dangerous it is!)
Okay, maybe Fred added just a bit of spice to his post to attract those who have real potential! Why would you �correct� him!?
To make things clear?! Ahhh, no! To protect your bottom from any liability if anything happens!
That is so common and so pathetic. And don�t bother with excuses, they won�t get you far!
If now you�re thinking that you have contributed a lot to the sport and some youngster talks to you like this, my answer is � GET USED TO IT! In my eyes Fred has done much more for the sport, because he�s the only person I know who looks in the future, not in the past.
Leo
PS Please don�t bother responding, don�t bother making a debate out of it. Above is just an opinion of a person who threw 70k into a car and who wants to drive it the way it�s built for, not the way big brother tells him.[/QUOTE]
| RB5 Clone | 11-19-2006 10:59 AM |
Fred, Leo et al--
You guys could maybe make it farther in rally by learning something about respect. It's not expected, but earned.
The way to earn respect in rally is to be out there actually being part of events---organizing, working, crewing, driving--and not taking potshots on the message boards.
If you guys are so hot (and have such a great car all built) where are your names on the entry list? There need to be more teams out there running.
However, you may discover that running a rally team takes a bit more than "throwing 70k at a car and wanting to drive it the way it should be." It means having a crew to help you keep the car going after you bend it, etc etc. It means working with the other guys you're racing against, even though you ARE competitors (which may come a a shock to you). In short, it takes cooperation and respect.
You guys may have talent in spades, but that's not obvious from your attitudes. One bit of advice--it takes exactly zero talent to toss a rally car into the woods because you're too impatient or self-important to learn from those around you.
Dave G
Not entered at Pines for 1st time in 4 years, due to excess inventory of busted subarus :rolleyes:
You guys could maybe make it farther in rally by learning something about respect. It's not expected, but earned.
The way to earn respect in rally is to be out there actually being part of events---organizing, working, crewing, driving--and not taking potshots on the message boards.
If you guys are so hot (and have such a great car all built) where are your names on the entry list? There need to be more teams out there running.
However, you may discover that running a rally team takes a bit more than "throwing 70k at a car and wanting to drive it the way it should be." It means having a crew to help you keep the car going after you bend it, etc etc. It means working with the other guys you're racing against, even though you ARE competitors (which may come a a shock to you). In short, it takes cooperation and respect.
You guys may have talent in spades, but that's not obvious from your attitudes. One bit of advice--it takes exactly zero talent to toss a rally car into the woods because you're too impatient or self-important to learn from those around you.
Dave G
Not entered at Pines for 1st time in 4 years, due to excess inventory of busted subarus :rolleyes:
| Howl | 11-19-2006 11:04 AM |
[QUOTE=AlanO;16043338]What a spectacular display of immaturity.[/QUOTE]
Seriously. It's that attitude that will lead to the end of rallying in Canada, not the expansion of it. You're the kind of person who the new streetracing bill is intended to put behind bars, and I think most real ralliers would applaud if you were caught and sent to the pen. Rallying is NOT an underground sport where people tear up the backroads putting fear into the hearts of locals and on-coming traffic. Rallying is a way to experience the thrill of reaching your maximum potential, on a real road, in a real car, in a safe manner.
Seriously. It's that attitude that will lead to the end of rallying in Canada, not the expansion of it. You're the kind of person who the new streetracing bill is intended to put behind bars, and I think most real ralliers would applaud if you were caught and sent to the pen. Rallying is NOT an underground sport where people tear up the backroads putting fear into the hearts of locals and on-coming traffic. Rallying is a way to experience the thrill of reaching your maximum potential, on a real road, in a real car, in a safe manner.
| Evo3Codriver | 11-19-2006 12:53 PM |
Rally Politics Suck
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[QUOTE=Veritas Una]Go on; keep hiding behind politically correct statements! And while you do so, keep canceling DriveXes! (I don�t care if you were involved in those decisions or not, but you sure sound like the type!).[/QUOTE]
So now I think I'm beginning to understand; because Ontario RallySport had to cancel some TSDs because of new streetracing legislation, TSDers are upset that performance rallies are still being held. Way to go to promote the sport.
Alan Outlaw:lol: Howl, get a grip.
So now I think I'm beginning to understand; because Ontario RallySport had to cancel some TSDs because of new streetracing legislation, TSDers are upset that performance rallies are still being held. Way to go to promote the sport.
Alan Outlaw:lol: Howl, get a grip.
| Howl | 11-19-2006 04:49 PM |
[QUOTE=Evo3Codriver;16044206]So now I think I'm beginning to understand; because Ontario RallySport had to cancel some TSDs because of new streetracing legislation, TSDers are upset that performance rallies are still being held. Way to go to promote the sport.
Alan Outlaw:lol: Howl, get a grip.[/QUOTE]
You've missed the point completely (unless you're being sarcastic, I can never tell). Fred is an active member of the local rally community. He's co-driving at Tall Pines. He's set up RallyX's before, and for that we thank him. I'm not sure Leo has done him a service with his rant.
What some people fail to realize is that there is a lot of history to rallying in Ontario. There have been battles won and lost in the past. The people who are currently heading the various rally organizations are walking a fine line between providing good exciting events for rally enthusiasts on one hand and running a-foul of local and provincial governments, and now the federal government, on the other. When young guns come along and tell the old guard to F-off, feathers get ruffled, not out of pride, but because the old guard see their years of work being undone right before their eyes.
Some of these young guns seem to think that everyone in the community is thrilled to see rally cars blasting down the backroads and the way to "promote" the sport is to get out on the open public roads with 300+hp cars and tear up the gravel, damn the risks. In some parts of the world that may actually work, but unfortunately in North America the vast majority of the general public is not impressed by reckless driving, particularly the people who control the roads - the local municipal governments and the Ministry of Natural Resources. The only way stage and TSD rally will continue is if they are seen as a safe, legal, well-organized events.
The "official" advertising for this rally school is very carefully worded so it doesn't create the type of reaction that is apparent in the 2nd and 3th post of this thread. This school will be a safe and well-organized event and it should be advertised that way.
Alan Outlaw:lol: Howl, get a grip.[/QUOTE]
You've missed the point completely (unless you're being sarcastic, I can never tell). Fred is an active member of the local rally community. He's co-driving at Tall Pines. He's set up RallyX's before, and for that we thank him. I'm not sure Leo has done him a service with his rant.
What some people fail to realize is that there is a lot of history to rallying in Ontario. There have been battles won and lost in the past. The people who are currently heading the various rally organizations are walking a fine line between providing good exciting events for rally enthusiasts on one hand and running a-foul of local and provincial governments, and now the federal government, on the other. When young guns come along and tell the old guard to F-off, feathers get ruffled, not out of pride, but because the old guard see their years of work being undone right before their eyes.
Some of these young guns seem to think that everyone in the community is thrilled to see rally cars blasting down the backroads and the way to "promote" the sport is to get out on the open public roads with 300+hp cars and tear up the gravel, damn the risks. In some parts of the world that may actually work, but unfortunately in North America the vast majority of the general public is not impressed by reckless driving, particularly the people who control the roads - the local municipal governments and the Ministry of Natural Resources. The only way stage and TSD rally will continue is if they are seen as a safe, legal, well-organized events.
The "official" advertising for this rally school is very carefully worded so it doesn't create the type of reaction that is apparent in the 2nd and 3th post of this thread. This school will be a safe and well-organized event and it should be advertised that way.
| fweidner | 11-21-2006 06:56 AM |
Geez, it's amazing how easily people can get bent out of shape
I've changed the original wording. You would think everyone on special stage and nasioc would know that all recce / nfp is on open road and that speed limits and traffic laws must by obeyed at all times.
Hope that helps :)
I've changed the original wording. You would think everyone on special stage and nasioc would know that all recce / nfp is on open road and that speed limits and traffic laws must by obeyed at all times.
Hope that helps :)
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