| bwagner | 10-16-2005 12:56 AM |
Trouble following the course?
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Ok,
So tommorow might very well be my first autocross event. I've spectated at a bunch, been on ride-a-longs a few times, but now I want to drive. My main issue is that when I'm on the ride-a-longs, I cannot seem to follow the course while watching. I know it will be different when I'm actually the driver, but I'm just curious as to how many newbies have had a hard time with this at first. Also, how long did it take to get the hang of it? To tell you the truth, I'm actually a bit nervous about it. Oh, and I'll be driving a friends car, not my own. It's a 1981 VW Scirocco, fully hooked up for Crossing, he races it almost every week, and is always one of the fastest cars on the course. How much ridicule should I expect for mowing down a ton of cones?
So tommorow might very well be my first autocross event. I've spectated at a bunch, been on ride-a-longs a few times, but now I want to drive. My main issue is that when I'm on the ride-a-longs, I cannot seem to follow the course while watching. I know it will be different when I'm actually the driver, but I'm just curious as to how many newbies have had a hard time with this at first. Also, how long did it take to get the hang of it? To tell you the truth, I'm actually a bit nervous about it. Oh, and I'll be driving a friends car, not my own. It's a 1981 VW Scirocco, fully hooked up for Crossing, he races it almost every week, and is always one of the fastest cars on the course. How much ridicule should I expect for mowing down a ton of cones?
| neuspeed | 10-16-2005 01:01 AM |
Do not push the car to all it can be pushed to, drive at a limit (conservitively) first
| XenoWolf | 10-16-2005 01:02 AM |
[IMG]http://www.xenovitalis.com/cone.jpg[/IMG]
| makofoto | 10-16-2005 01:04 AM |
You can't be fast unless you know the course ... you must walk it a number of times ... take notes or draw out the course ... and memorize it. You need to sit in the car ... and be able to "drive" it in your head ... with your eyes closed ... you need to "see" the course. Memorize main features, key cones ... which side to enter slaloms, etc.
| Storm | 10-16-2005 09:43 AM |
I second that. As a spectator...have you walked the courses? You won't know where to go unless you walk the course a few times first.
Jay Storm
Jay Storm
| Butt Dyno | 10-16-2005 10:25 AM |
Nothing to add, but welcome to autocross in the DC region :)
Make sure you make it out to Fedex next year if you can... great events!
john
Make sure you make it out to Fedex next year if you can... great events!
john
| jmolaver | 10-16-2005 02:47 PM |
just so you don't feel too badly if you don't do well, i'm a disaster on an autox course... I think i ran ~4 autox's, but i never got the hang of following a cone'd out track.. After those autox's i tried out a HPDE and never looked back...
on a road course I do fairly well, (run in advanced groups at DEs & am a nasa comp license holder), but as i said, i probably have more off-courses then finish times at autox's... :lol:
on a road course I do fairly well, (run in advanced groups at DEs & am a nasa comp license holder), but as i said, i probably have more off-courses then finish times at autox's... :lol:
| leecea | 10-16-2005 03:32 PM |
...and when people say"walk the course" it doesn't mean wandering along the route chatting! Really try to focus on the course and what it looks like ahead of you. You may have heard the term "look ahead" and that will be important when you are driving. If you are just going from cone to cone it takes too long to react. Look a good way ahead and see where you need to be a couple of seconds from now. Practice that when you are walking and it might feel a bit easier when driving. You will be slow at first, but don't worry - you'll get it after a couple of events.
| makofoto | 10-17-2005 12:05 AM |
For jmolaver :D
[img]http://images6.fotki.com/v90/photos/4/43793/836092/IfAxing-vi.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images6.fotki.com/v90/photos/4/43793/836092/IfAxing-vi.jpg[/img]
| bwagner | 10-17-2005 06:12 AM |
OK...well I think I did pretty good. I stayed on course for all four runs, and I managed to shave around 15 seconds off my times by the final run. I was running SM class in my buddy's car and my final times was 51.09 His time was 45.09 and he's usually one of the faster guys on the course. I did'nt go out to be fast this time, just to get used to following a sea of orange cones, and I'm happy with the results. I think with another run or two I'd have shaved at least another 4~5 seconds off my times. In thinking back now I know a bunch of placces where I could have made up some time. I'll definately be out to FEDEX next season. I was there a bunch of times this year, but with no car to drive. Thanks for the pointers, I'm officially hooked!
| leecea | 10-17-2005 10:51 AM |
Just curious... were you at the Ripken Stadium event?
| bwagner | 10-17-2005 11:34 AM |
yep! I was driving a small 1981 VW Scirrocco. It's Grey
| leecea | 10-17-2005 11:45 AM |
I think I saw the car in the paddock, but I didn't watch it run. I was in first heat, running D-Stock with a silver WRX. Glad you had fun and stayed on course. I gather quite a few people had trouble with off-courses!
| CirrusWRX | 10-17-2005 01:39 PM |
With more experience, you'll start to see 'patterns' and your brain will be able to compute and remember them accordingly. I suck at autox, but I remember "forgetting" the first 3 I ever went to. But now, when I see a course and get to walk it once or twice and hopefully a parade lap, I can usually remember it because parts of them are very similar, especially when you break them down into smaller sections.
e.g. "start out with slalom into left hand sweeper, followed by right hand chicago box..." That would've taken me a day to learn my first few times out, but breaking it down in my head as 3 relatively simple things makes it work for me. YMMV and all that.
Also, the other big reason I tended to not be able to remember the course and always being unprepared was NOT LOOKING FAR ENOUGH AHEAD. :)
e.g. "start out with slalom into left hand sweeper, followed by right hand chicago box..." That would've taken me a day to learn my first few times out, but breaking it down in my head as 3 relatively simple things makes it work for me. YMMV and all that.
Also, the other big reason I tended to not be able to remember the course and always being unprepared was NOT LOOKING FAR ENOUGH AHEAD. :)
| makofoto | 10-17-2005 01:46 PM |
If everything is happening too fast ... you aren't looking ahead (enough) ... if you aren't looking ahead ... you're constantly being surprised.
You need to look for combinations. See a set of corners and realize that you can basically take them as one corner.
You need to look for combinations. See a set of corners and realize that you can basically take them as one corner.
| bwagner | 10-17-2005 05:08 PM |
I surprisingly didn't feel lost at all! I was thinking it was going to drive me nuts, but it turned out to be very intuitive to me for some reason. I just hope the next one is as cool as this one was for me. Oh, Cirrus, I find that I was actually taking the sections kind of seperately. I think once I can transition the sections together, I'll be able to have slightly more competitive times. I can't wait until Saturday now. I'm going nuts with anticipation! I hope my car is ready, it's in the body shop as of right now, some decided it would be cool to back over my front end while I was sleeping.
| jmolaver | 10-17-2005 05:53 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]For jmolaver :D
[/QUOTE]
:lol:
absurd, but funny.. ;)
[/QUOTE]
:lol:
absurd, but funny.. ;)
| makofoto | 10-17-2005 08:36 PM |
Absurd ... ? ... you've never had a ride with a National Champion level AX driver. Good AX'ers make fast road racers ... good road racers don't necessarily make fast AX'ers.
| jmolaver | 10-17-2005 10:04 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]Absurd ... ? ... you've never had a ride with a National Champion level AX driver. Good AX'ers make fast road racers ... good road racers don't necessarily make fast AX'ers.[/QUOTE]
actually, i've ridden with both national level ax'ers, and pro level road racers racers and I'd agree that while good road racers don't necessarily make fast AX'ers, good AX'ers don't necessarily make fast road racers either..
I'm certainly not trying to demean the level of skill and preparation that goes into being a national level (or even good) AXer, but there's a big jump from setting 1 good 50 second lap around a cone'd out course in a parking lot to being on track from a half hour to 4 hours consistantly driving fast laps (generally in more evenly matched cars) while both defending your position, trying to pass, keeping tire/brake life in mind, etc, all at speeds that [i]might[/i] be seen for a brief moment at an autox...
autox is very difficult (as i've said I certainly can't do it well), but to just make a blanket statement that roadracing is easier then autox sounds kinda silly to me..
p.s. any autox on TV tonight? I was going to watch my Tivo'd Speed World Challenge at laguna seca, but if i can watch you guys dodge cones in a parking lot for an hour i'm game! :lol:
actually, i've ridden with both national level ax'ers, and pro level road racers racers and I'd agree that while good road racers don't necessarily make fast AX'ers, good AX'ers don't necessarily make fast road racers either..
I'm certainly not trying to demean the level of skill and preparation that goes into being a national level (or even good) AXer, but there's a big jump from setting 1 good 50 second lap around a cone'd out course in a parking lot to being on track from a half hour to 4 hours consistantly driving fast laps (generally in more evenly matched cars) while both defending your position, trying to pass, keeping tire/brake life in mind, etc, all at speeds that [i]might[/i] be seen for a brief moment at an autox...
autox is very difficult (as i've said I certainly can't do it well), but to just make a blanket statement that roadracing is easier then autox sounds kinda silly to me..
p.s. any autox on TV tonight? I was going to watch my Tivo'd Speed World Challenge at laguna seca, but if i can watch you guys dodge cones in a parking lot for an hour i'm game! :lol:
| leecea | 10-17-2005 11:02 PM |
Not this again! Any sport carried to a competitive extreme requires skill, and sports that are somewhat related can end up requiring quite different skill sets when at the highest level. Debates around one being harder or better than the other are as pointless as the debates as to whether Fangio is a better driver than Schumacher.
| makofoto | 10-17-2005 11:24 PM |
Agree ... just teasing
| gc822 | 10-17-2005 11:46 PM |
[QUOTE=bwagner]OK...well I think I did pretty good. I stayed on course for all four runs, and I managed to shave around 15 seconds off my times by the final run. I was running SM class in my buddy's car and my final times was 51.09 His time was 45.09 and he's usually one of the faster guys on the course. I did'nt go out to be fast this time, just to get used to following a sea of orange cones, and I'm happy with the results. I think with another run or two I'd have shaved at least another 4~5 seconds off my times. In thinking back now I know a bunch of placces where I could have made up some time. I'll definately be out to FEDEX next season. I was there a bunch of times this year, but with no car to drive. Thanks for the pointers, I'm officially hooked![/QUOTE]
Auto-X was like crack to me, I love it. Glad to hear you had fun. Hope to see you out there some time!
-Mac
Auto-X was like crack to me, I love it. Glad to hear you had fun. Hope to see you out there some time!
-Mac
| CirrusWRX | 10-18-2005 10:14 AM |
Not to fuel fire, but it's really kind of the apples to aardvaarks argument of auto-x to road racing, to rally, hell, to 1/4 mile drag racing.
IMO an "amazing driver" in either 4 of those categories does not necessarily translate well to any other category in terms of being "amazing." There is obviously raw talent involved in all forms of motorsports and clearly a lot of similarities, but the techniques and skills required are frequently very different.
IMO an "amazing driver" in either 4 of those categories does not necessarily translate well to any other category in terms of being "amazing." There is obviously raw talent involved in all forms of motorsports and clearly a lot of similarities, but the techniques and skills required are frequently very different.
| ratt_finkel | 10-18-2005 10:47 AM |
Whatever, I don't need to be PC. Auto-x drivers pwn roadracing drivers! ;)
| gusto | 10-18-2005 10:53 AM |
[QUOTE=bwagner]Ok,
So tommorow might very well be my first autocross event. I've spectated at a bunch, been on ride-a-longs a few times, but now I want to drive. My main issue is that when I'm on the ride-a-longs, I cannot seem to follow the course while watching. I know it will be different when I'm actually the driver, but I'm just curious as to how many newbies have had a hard time with this at first. Also, how long did it take to get the hang of it? To tell you the truth, I'm actually a bit nervous about it. Oh, and I'll be driving a friends car, not my own. It's a 1981 VW Scirocco, fully hooked up for Crossing, he races it almost every week, and is always one of the fastest cars on the course. How much ridicule should I expect for mowing down a ton of cones?[/QUOTE]
i started autox this year also and felt the same exact way.
pretty simply just take it easy the first time around. dont worry about your times, or spectators, or cones. just do the course.
i had an instructor thats also a co-worker so he helped calm me down and make it a little more relaxed than if i was with a "stranger" that first time around
after that those butterflies will have calmed down a bit, youll no longer be psyching yourself out, and you can enjoy the rest of the day.
after that very very first run...its all gravy.
just relax, look up & ahead and take your time until youre 100% comfortable.
dont worry about bashing a few cones...it happens, even to the best!
:) good luck!
So tommorow might very well be my first autocross event. I've spectated at a bunch, been on ride-a-longs a few times, but now I want to drive. My main issue is that when I'm on the ride-a-longs, I cannot seem to follow the course while watching. I know it will be different when I'm actually the driver, but I'm just curious as to how many newbies have had a hard time with this at first. Also, how long did it take to get the hang of it? To tell you the truth, I'm actually a bit nervous about it. Oh, and I'll be driving a friends car, not my own. It's a 1981 VW Scirocco, fully hooked up for Crossing, he races it almost every week, and is always one of the fastest cars on the course. How much ridicule should I expect for mowing down a ton of cones?[/QUOTE]
i started autox this year also and felt the same exact way.
pretty simply just take it easy the first time around. dont worry about your times, or spectators, or cones. just do the course.
i had an instructor thats also a co-worker so he helped calm me down and make it a little more relaxed than if i was with a "stranger" that first time around
after that those butterflies will have calmed down a bit, youll no longer be psyching yourself out, and you can enjoy the rest of the day.
after that very very first run...its all gravy.
just relax, look up & ahead and take your time until youre 100% comfortable.
dont worry about bashing a few cones...it happens, even to the best!
:) good luck!
| dmitrik4 | 10-19-2005 09:21 AM |
and if you're not hitting a cone once in a while, you need to drive harder.
[QUOTE=bwagner]yep! I was driving a small 1981 VW Scirrocco. It's Grey[/QUOTE]
eric's car?
glad to hear you had fun. the philly region folks are extremely friendly. don't be afraid to ask for as much help as you want/need.
[QUOTE=bwagner]yep! I was driving a small 1981 VW Scirrocco. It's Grey[/QUOTE]
eric's car?
glad to hear you had fun. the philly region folks are extremely friendly. don't be afraid to ask for as much help as you want/need.
| jamesohoh7 | 10-19-2005 09:55 AM |
[QUOTE=bwagner]Ok,
So tommorow might very well be my first autocross event. I've spectated at a bunch, been on ride-a-longs a few times, but now I want to drive. My main issue is that when I'm on the ride-a-longs, I cannot seem to follow the course while watching.
[/quote]
:lol: I've read the update, glad you had a good time! :)
I remember my first event (summer of '04). It was a night event, and it was like midnight when I got my first run. I couldn't see -jack-squat- :lol: I DNF'ed every run but one (and I think they gave me one 'just because...' )
My friends had been hounding me to try it for about a year, I finally relented b/c they were like "oh man... at the night ones, it's -way better- b/c it's not so friggin' hot!" Wrong, and wrong again! First, it's ALWAYS hot in Texas... night, day, dead of winter.. doesn't matter, it'll be a nice toasty day 9 times out of 10. ;) Night events are much harder to drive b/c you can't look ahead very far .. your headlights point you off course constantly (and I didn't know how to disable the DRL's on my WRX at the time), and there's no real light (a few crappy light-poles don't cut it) where you need to be looking.
Of course, it wasn't until after the event, as we were sitting around, that they were like "dude, you're an idiot!.. you really thought it'd be better at night! LOL!" They got me good, but it was all in good fun :D
Lessons learned:
1) autox is fun, even if you suck.
2) your friends will lie to you for their amusement, always :D
3) it's all good.
[quote]
How much ridicule should I expect for mowing down a ton of cones?[/QUOTE]
A lot, but your friends would do that even if you won a national championship... it's always funny to watch someone drag a cone all the way back to the grid... kind of like how fart-jokes are always funny :D
So tommorow might very well be my first autocross event. I've spectated at a bunch, been on ride-a-longs a few times, but now I want to drive. My main issue is that when I'm on the ride-a-longs, I cannot seem to follow the course while watching.
[/quote]
:lol: I've read the update, glad you had a good time! :)
I remember my first event (summer of '04). It was a night event, and it was like midnight when I got my first run. I couldn't see -jack-squat- :lol: I DNF'ed every run but one (and I think they gave me one 'just because...' )
My friends had been hounding me to try it for about a year, I finally relented b/c they were like "oh man... at the night ones, it's -way better- b/c it's not so friggin' hot!" Wrong, and wrong again! First, it's ALWAYS hot in Texas... night, day, dead of winter.. doesn't matter, it'll be a nice toasty day 9 times out of 10. ;) Night events are much harder to drive b/c you can't look ahead very far .. your headlights point you off course constantly (and I didn't know how to disable the DRL's on my WRX at the time), and there's no real light (a few crappy light-poles don't cut it) where you need to be looking.
Of course, it wasn't until after the event, as we were sitting around, that they were like "dude, you're an idiot!.. you really thought it'd be better at night! LOL!" They got me good, but it was all in good fun :D
Lessons learned:
1) autox is fun, even if you suck.
2) your friends will lie to you for their amusement, always :D
3) it's all good.
[quote]
How much ridicule should I expect for mowing down a ton of cones?[/QUOTE]
A lot, but your friends would do that even if you won a national championship... it's always funny to watch someone drag a cone all the way back to the grid... kind of like how fart-jokes are always funny :D
| Calamity Jesus | 10-19-2005 12:08 PM |
[QUOTE=bwagner]OK...well I think I did pretty good. I stayed on course for all four runs, and I managed to shave around 15 seconds off my times by the final run. I was running SM class in my buddy's car and my final times was 51.09 His time was 45.09 and he's usually one of the faster guys on the course.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you did really really well for a first-timer. Don't worry about what you could have done.. that just puts pressure on you for your next event. I think that a big part of autocrossing (or motorsports in general) is getting into a routine that allows you to be calm and clear.
Sounds like you did really really well for a first-timer. Don't worry about what you could have done.. that just puts pressure on you for your next event. I think that a big part of autocrossing (or motorsports in general) is getting into a routine that allows you to be calm and clear.
| funsti | 10-19-2005 01:31 PM |
[QUOTE=Beaverboy]I think that a big part of autocrossing (or motorsports in general) is getting into a routine that allows you to be calm and clear.[/QUOTE]
The BIGGEST part.
-JWM
The BIGGEST part.
-JWM
| Sean | 10-20-2005 01:22 AM |
When I first got started I used to walk the course with a notebook and draw it out. Drawing it helped me to memorize the course along with referring to it before each run. Now I have something called a "Navigator". :lol:
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| wrx2.0 555 | 10-20-2005 09:46 AM |
[QUOTE=ratt_finkel]Whatever, I don't need to be PC. Auto-x drivers pwn roadracing drivers! ;)[/QUOTE]
We'll all have our eyes on THoppe to see how this turns out for him..... :devil:
We'll all have our eyes on THoppe to see how this turns out for him..... :devil:
| dmitrik4 | 10-21-2005 05:39 PM |
[QUOTE=jamesohoh7]
it's always funny to watch someone drag a cone all the way back to the grid... kind of like how fart-jokes are always funny :D[/QUOTE]
it's even funnier when the car has to be jacked up in grid to get the cone(s) out.
it's always funny to watch someone drag a cone all the way back to the grid... kind of like how fart-jokes are always funny :D[/QUOTE]
it's even funnier when the car has to be jacked up in grid to get the cone(s) out.
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