| MNbiker | 02-15-2005 11:05 PM |
Street Mod just got a bit tougher this year....
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[url]http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/42/289[/url]
| SloRice | 02-15-2005 11:17 PM |
should be interesting!
SM 18
(first time to Topeka :D)
SM 18
(first time to Topeka :D)
| dwx | 02-16-2005 12:11 AM |
Haha he's slow.
I'm just wondering what the hell he is doing that requires relocating the steering rack.
I'm just wondering what the hell he is doing that requires relocating the steering rack.
| Storm | 02-16-2005 03:02 AM |
Wringing every ounce of potential out of the geometry? Maybe he found something that can be beneficial for the car. I hear he's pretty good at setting cars up. ;)
Jay Storm
Jay Storm
| angryfist | 02-16-2005 08:36 AM |
that should be pretty interesting...
Phil: how far along are you on your car?
-Jason
#54 STX
Phil: how far along are you on your car?
-Jason
#54 STX
| Aaron B | 02-16-2005 09:10 AM |
[QUOTE=dwx]I'm just wondering what the hell he is doing that requires relocating the steering rack.[/QUOTE]
My guess would be additional Ackerman for the geometry, could be correcting for bumpsteer but that seems a little excessive
My guess would be additional Ackerman for the geometry, could be correcting for bumpsteer but that seems a little excessive
| MNbiker | 02-16-2005 09:14 AM |
[QUOTE=dwx]Haha he's slow.
I'm just wondering what the hell he is doing that requires relocating the steering rack.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure he wants to correct the steering geometry of a lowered car by relocating the steering rack. The goal is to get the steering arms parallel to the control arms. My SM2 Miata has a combination of different tie rod ends and spacers installed to accomplish this.
If Mark's already worrying about the fine points like this, it isn't going to be long before he's silly-fast. ;)
Should be fun to watch! :cool:
-Steve
I'm just wondering what the hell he is doing that requires relocating the steering rack.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure he wants to correct the steering geometry of a lowered car by relocating the steering rack. The goal is to get the steering arms parallel to the control arms. My SM2 Miata has a combination of different tie rod ends and spacers installed to accomplish this.
If Mark's already worrying about the fine points like this, it isn't going to be long before he's silly-fast. ;)
Should be fun to watch! :cool:
-Steve
| jmott | 02-16-2005 09:23 AM |
daddio slow...
lol
I still dream of building an RX8 for SM
on paper it should dominate, provided the right power band can be had from it somehow
[QUOTE=dwx]Haha he's slow.
I'm just wondering what the hell he is doing that requires relocating the steering rack.[/QUOTE]
lol
I still dream of building an RX8 for SM
on paper it should dominate, provided the right power band can be had from it somehow
[QUOTE=dwx]Haha he's slow.
I'm just wondering what the hell he is doing that requires relocating the steering rack.[/QUOTE]
| Templar | 02-16-2005 09:31 AM |
I have one thing to say about this development, but it can't be typed on NASIOC. It begins with an F and ends with multiple exclamation points. :lol:
| KC | 02-16-2005 10:47 AM |
[QUOTE=jmott]daddio slow...
lol
I still dream of building an RX8 for SM
on paper it should dominate, provided the right power band can be had from it somehow[/QUOTE]
Greddy just released a turbo kit that's dynoing pretty damn well. :)
I'm not convinced the EVO is the right car for the class tho... but he knows how to drive...
lol
I still dream of building an RX8 for SM
on paper it should dominate, provided the right power band can be had from it somehow[/QUOTE]
Greddy just released a turbo kit that's dynoing pretty damn well. :)
I'm not convinced the EVO is the right car for the class tho... but he knows how to drive...
| CamaroFS34 | 02-16-2005 11:19 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]I'm not convinced the EVO is the right car for the class tho... but he knows how to drive...[/QUOTE]
Can't be any worse than a turbo'ed Neon, right? ;)
Karen
Can't be any worse than a turbo'ed Neon, right? ;)
Karen
| KC | 02-16-2005 11:32 AM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34]Can't be any worse than a turbo'ed Neon, right? ;)
Karen[/QUOTE]
:lol:
--kC
(Awaits seeing what Mazda Rev It Up will be like this year)
Karen[/QUOTE]
:lol:
--kC
(Awaits seeing what Mazda Rev It Up will be like this year)
| dwx | 02-16-2005 12:19 PM |
Yeah I figured the steering rack was to lower it to get the right geometry, but you never know with the SM rules...
My crystal ball says Daddio will likely win all the tours/Pros in SM on the east coast he enters, but the car will fall short of catching the top M3s out west. His car was tuned by Al Friedman, should have similar power to Jack Brennan's car I imagine. Basically the bolt on power mods and cams, stock turbo.
I think the RX8 would have as good a chance as a M3 with enough power, but there aren't too many guys willing to go to those lengths in a newer car.
I'd like to say my new car is coming together, but it's not to that point yet. Maybe in 4 weeks when I hopefully have the major parts I can say that. I have the actual car though, so that's a start. :) My original goal was to have it done by the Atlanta Pro, but that's unlikely at this point. So I'm hoping end of April.
My crystal ball says Daddio will likely win all the tours/Pros in SM on the east coast he enters, but the car will fall short of catching the top M3s out west. His car was tuned by Al Friedman, should have similar power to Jack Brennan's car I imagine. Basically the bolt on power mods and cams, stock turbo.
I think the RX8 would have as good a chance as a M3 with enough power, but there aren't too many guys willing to go to those lengths in a newer car.
I'd like to say my new car is coming together, but it's not to that point yet. Maybe in 4 weeks when I hopefully have the major parts I can say that. I have the actual car though, so that's a start. :) My original goal was to have it done by the Atlanta Pro, but that's unlikely at this point. So I'm hoping end of April.
| MNbiker | 02-16-2005 01:56 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx]Yeah I figured the steering rack was to lower it to get the right geometry, but you never know with the SM rules... [/QUOTE]
Actually, you want to raise the rack. The rod ends will be higher, relative to the steering rack, on a lowered vehicle. So you put bushings under the rack to raise it to the level of the rod ends. Alternately, you could fabricate some different rod ends that lower the attachment point at the wheel end of the tie rod.
-Steve
Actually, you want to raise the rack. The rod ends will be higher, relative to the steering rack, on a lowered vehicle. So you put bushings under the rack to raise it to the level of the rod ends. Alternately, you could fabricate some different rod ends that lower the attachment point at the wheel end of the tie rod.
-Steve
| ChrisW | 02-16-2005 02:00 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx]Haha he's slow.
I'm just wondering what the hell he is doing that requires relocating the steering rack.[/QUOTE]
The EVO is sensative to bump steer when you lower it or add negatvie camber.
(at least that has been my experiance )
I'm just wondering what the hell he is doing that requires relocating the steering rack.[/QUOTE]
The EVO is sensative to bump steer when you lower it or add negatvie camber.
(at least that has been my experiance )
| speedyHAM | 02-16-2005 05:18 PM |
It was always my impression that changing suspension/steering geometry, such as steering rack mounting location, was not a SM legal type mod and that it was more of a Modified class mod. But hey- I'm new at SM, what do I know?
| AUTOwrXER | 02-16-2005 05:26 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Greddy just released a turbo kit that's dynoing pretty damn well. :)
I'm not convinced the EVO is the right car for the class tho... but he knows how to drive...[/QUOTE]
Agreed. He may give us AWD guys some hope for SM, but I think eventually the FWD NA or FI platform will dominate given the minimum weights. We'll find out with Shenefield's project car. The BMWs are certainly beatable, however, especially since Tunnell probably won't be in his anymore.
I'm not convinced the EVO is the right car for the class tho... but he knows how to drive...[/QUOTE]
Agreed. He may give us AWD guys some hope for SM, but I think eventually the FWD NA or FI platform will dominate given the minimum weights. We'll find out with Shenefield's project car. The BMWs are certainly beatable, however, especially since Tunnell probably won't be in his anymore.
| DrBiggly | 02-16-2005 05:41 PM |
Is Tunnell still doing an E30 M3 for STX this year? That was the last rumor that I had heard...
| Evil STI | 02-16-2005 05:43 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]:lol:
--kC
(Awaits seeing what Mazda Rev It Up will be like this year)[/QUOTE]
Let's just hope he finds something else to do that weekend. :)
--kC
(Awaits seeing what Mazda Rev It Up will be like this year)[/QUOTE]
Let's just hope he finds something else to do that weekend. :)
| MNbiker | 02-16-2005 05:53 PM |
[QUOTE=speedyHAM]It was always my impression that changing suspension/steering geometry, such as steering rack mounting location, was not a SM legal type mod and that it was more of a Modified class mod. But hey- I'm new at SM, what do I know?[/QUOTE]
Nope. As of last year, you can change out pretty much everything except the steering column.
-Steve
Nope. As of last year, you can change out pretty much everything except the steering column.
-Steve
| MNbiker | 02-16-2005 05:56 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Is Tunnell still doing an E30 M3 for STX this year? That was the last rumor that I had heard...[/QUOTE]
That's someone else's car that Bob's co-driving at a CA event. Rumor has it he will be somewhere other than SM this year, but not STX.
-Steve
That's someone else's car that Bob's co-driving at a CA event. Rumor has it he will be somewhere other than SM this year, but not STX.
-Steve
| MNbiker | 02-16-2005 06:09 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER].....I think eventually the FWD NA or FI platform will dominate given the minimum weights....[/QUOTE]
I don't buy it. There are already some reasonably well developed FWD cars in SM, and they're not even close to the overweight Bimmers, unless it rains. In my opinion, RWD is simply too much of an advantage. I'm betting the eventual SM beast will be a RWD car built to the 2,200 minimum.
-Steve
I don't buy it. There are already some reasonably well developed FWD cars in SM, and they're not even close to the overweight Bimmers, unless it rains. In my opinion, RWD is simply too much of an advantage. I'm betting the eventual SM beast will be a RWD car built to the 2,200 minimum.
-Steve
| XT6Wagon | 02-16-2005 06:40 PM |
AWD definitely has a chance if developed as it will be very good for the varible surfaces, etc. Needs alot more development than currently seen though.
| ChrisW | 02-16-2005 07:19 PM |
[QUOTE=XT6Wagon]AWD definitely has a chance if developed as it will be very good for the varible surfaces, etc. Needs alot more development than currently seen though.[/QUOTE]
agreed. I have talked with Navid Kangi (ESP prosolo champ last season) he is building a SM EVO right now. He is using ESP to develop the majority of the suspension and driveline components before jumping to SM.
I think a resonably well prepped EVO and a truely nutty driver can easily beat the M3. I am not saying that an equally prepped STI can't do the same, I just don't see (or heard of) anyone other than daddio developing one for SM.
That said, I have seen Navid put the hurt on Sias.
[url="http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results/2005/Championship/round1.html"]Take round one in the SFR region...[/url]
SM ran last that day, ESP was first. This was the second event of the season, so the surface was still very green and dirty giving the advantage to the later run groups
Vic got his best time 43.188 +1 running in SM.
Navid got a blistering 42.257 in his ESP '05 EVO RS (TBE exhaust, XEDE, 710s, [i]stock suspension[/i])
I wish daddio the best of luck, he is going to need it. :alien:
agreed. I have talked with Navid Kangi (ESP prosolo champ last season) he is building a SM EVO right now. He is using ESP to develop the majority of the suspension and driveline components before jumping to SM.
I think a resonably well prepped EVO and a truely nutty driver can easily beat the M3. I am not saying that an equally prepped STI can't do the same, I just don't see (or heard of) anyone other than daddio developing one for SM.
That said, I have seen Navid put the hurt on Sias.
[url="http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results/2005/Championship/round1.html"]Take round one in the SFR region...[/url]
SM ran last that day, ESP was first. This was the second event of the season, so the surface was still very green and dirty giving the advantage to the later run groups
Vic got his best time 43.188 +1 running in SM.
Navid got a blistering 42.257 in his ESP '05 EVO RS (TBE exhaust, XEDE, 710s, [i]stock suspension[/i])
I wish daddio the best of luck, he is going to need it. :alien:
| cooleyjb | 02-16-2005 08:34 PM |
[QUOTE=ChrisW]
[url="http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results/2005/Championship/round1.html"]Take round one in the SFR region...[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Look at the STX time spread over the first five. .1 sec separated the top five :banana: That is some pretty tight competition
[url="http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results/2005/Championship/round1.html"]Take round one in the SFR region...[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Look at the STX time spread over the first five. .1 sec separated the top five :banana: That is some pretty tight competition
| MNbiker | 02-16-2005 08:45 PM |
[QUOTE=ChrisW]I wish daddio the best of luck, he is going to need it. :alien:[/QUOTE]
I hope you don't mean against Navid?? :eek: Nothing against the guy, but he's not even close to the same league as Daddio.
-Steve
p.s. Not sure what your point was about Navid & Vic's times - they seem about right to me, if you look at raw times.
Navid's best: 42.257
Vic's Best: 43.188 (with 1 cone)
Take off Vic's cone and he's at 41.188
I hope you don't mean against Navid?? :eek: Nothing against the guy, but he's not even close to the same league as Daddio.
-Steve
p.s. Not sure what your point was about Navid & Vic's times - they seem about right to me, if you look at raw times.
Navid's best: 42.257
Vic's Best: 43.188 (with 1 cone)
Take off Vic's cone and he's at 41.188
| ChrisW | 02-16-2005 11:28 PM |
[QUOTE=cooleyjb]Look at the STX time spread over the first five. .1 sec separated the top five :banana: That is some pretty tight competition[/QUOTE]
ESP is just as competitive. I love running in either of those classes...
Steve,
My point is that Navid's car is barely tuned this was it's very first autocross (it only had 1100 miles on it) and he is only 1.1 seconds off Vic's raw time. Hell, he didn't even know if his 710's would rub (they did )
The second point (and I leave you to research this) is that ESP in my region has a tendency to be as fast if not faster than SM depending on who shows up.. ( I wish I was one of those fast drivers too :p )
ESP is just as competitive. I love running in either of those classes...
Steve,
My point is that Navid's car is barely tuned this was it's very first autocross (it only had 1100 miles on it) and he is only 1.1 seconds off Vic's raw time. Hell, he didn't even know if his 710's would rub (they did )
The second point (and I leave you to research this) is that ESP in my region has a tendency to be as fast if not faster than SM depending on who shows up.. ( I wish I was one of those fast drivers too :p )
| MNbiker | 02-17-2005 01:02 AM |
[QUOTE=ChrisW]My point is that Navid's car is barely tuned this was it's very first autocross (it only had 1100 miles on it) and he is only 1.1 seconds off Vic's raw time. Hell, he didn't even know if his 710's would rub (they did )
[/QUOTE]
I can't speak to the relative prep levels of the cars, as Vic's car has been in a constant state of development as well. However, the PAX gap between ESP & SM on a 60 second course is just under a second. Navid obviously drove well, but it's tough to read too much into th results - especially if traction was less than perfect.
[QUOTE=ChrisW]The second point (and I leave you to research this) is that ESP in my region has a tendency to be as fast if not faster than SM depending on who shows up.. ( I wish I was one of those fast drivers too :p )[/QUOTE]
I don't think your region is uniques in this regard. ESP is a far more mature class than SM, so you have a comparatively large number of well-sorted cars in ESP, versus SM. However, I'd expect the gap to widen, as people discover how to really take advantage of the SM rules. SM2 is even worse. The PAX for ASP and SM2 are almost identical, and I'm sure the top ASP drivers could have won SM2 at a number of the National events.
-Steve
(who now has Gary Thomason in his chosen class :eek: )
[/QUOTE]
I can't speak to the relative prep levels of the cars, as Vic's car has been in a constant state of development as well. However, the PAX gap between ESP & SM on a 60 second course is just under a second. Navid obviously drove well, but it's tough to read too much into th results - especially if traction was less than perfect.
[QUOTE=ChrisW]The second point (and I leave you to research this) is that ESP in my region has a tendency to be as fast if not faster than SM depending on who shows up.. ( I wish I was one of those fast drivers too :p )[/QUOTE]
I don't think your region is uniques in this regard. ESP is a far more mature class than SM, so you have a comparatively large number of well-sorted cars in ESP, versus SM. However, I'd expect the gap to widen, as people discover how to really take advantage of the SM rules. SM2 is even worse. The PAX for ASP and SM2 are almost identical, and I'm sure the top ASP drivers could have won SM2 at a number of the National events.
-Steve
(who now has Gary Thomason in his chosen class :eek: )
| AUTOwrXER | 02-17-2005 01:02 AM |
[QUOTE=MNbiker]I don't buy it. There are already some reasonably well developed FWD cars in SM, and they're not even close to the overweight Bimmers, unless it rains. In my opinion, RWD is simply too much of an advantage. I'm betting the eventual SM beast will be a RWD car built to the 2,200 minimum.
-Steve[/QUOTE]
Well developed is a relative term in SM. I think the Redshift car will redefine that. Take a look at CSP times carefully, and then add a lot more power. I think the Bimmers have a surprise in store. They are ahead of the development curve for now, but IMO their days are numbered.
Out of curiosity, what RWD cars are you thinking would be able to get to the 2200 minimum and have enough grunt to be competitive?
-Steve[/QUOTE]
Well developed is a relative term in SM. I think the Redshift car will redefine that. Take a look at CSP times carefully, and then add a lot more power. I think the Bimmers have a surprise in store. They are ahead of the development curve for now, but IMO their days are numbered.
Out of curiosity, what RWD cars are you thinking would be able to get to the 2200 minimum and have enough grunt to be competitive?
| zzyzx | 02-17-2005 01:08 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]I'm not convinced the EVO is the right car for the class tho... but he knows how to drive...[/QUOTE]
I've been thinking of the ideal SM/SM2 car - cheap, light and good power. You know what comes to mind? A VW Bug. 1600 lbs., RWD, a 2.2L turbo w/o lag, plenty of space for big tires, etc. I could see one of this popping wheelies at ProSolos. :lol:
- Steve
I've been thinking of the ideal SM/SM2 car - cheap, light and good power. You know what comes to mind? A VW Bug. 1600 lbs., RWD, a 2.2L turbo w/o lag, plenty of space for big tires, etc. I could see one of this popping wheelies at ProSolos. :lol:
- Steve
| MNbiker | 02-17-2005 02:03 AM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]Well developed is a relative term in SM. I think the Redshift car will redefine that. Take a look at CSP times carefully, and then add a lot more power. [/QUOTE]
We shall see - I have my doubts. Now if John Thomas were the one prepping a Civic for SM, the chances would be better.
As for CSP, you have to go down a LONG ways to find a non-CRX Honda. And the CRX's aren't SM-legal.....
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]Out of curiosity, what RWD cars are you thinking would be able to get to the 2200 minimum and have enough grunt to be competitive?[/QUOTE]
Toyota Corolla AE-86 and Toyota Starlet, to name two. Supposedly, an RX-7 rear subframe can be modified to bolt up to a Starlet, which takes care of the biggest issue. Power? A non-issue in SM - you could have an easy 300-350whp with several Toyota powerplants that would fit. You might actually have to add ballast to make weight.
Isn't the Silly Season fun? ;)
We shall see - I have my doubts. Now if John Thomas were the one prepping a Civic for SM, the chances would be better.
As for CSP, you have to go down a LONG ways to find a non-CRX Honda. And the CRX's aren't SM-legal.....
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]Out of curiosity, what RWD cars are you thinking would be able to get to the 2200 minimum and have enough grunt to be competitive?[/QUOTE]
Toyota Corolla AE-86 and Toyota Starlet, to name two. Supposedly, an RX-7 rear subframe can be modified to bolt up to a Starlet, which takes care of the biggest issue. Power? A non-issue in SM - you could have an easy 300-350whp with several Toyota powerplants that would fit. You might actually have to add ballast to make weight.
Isn't the Silly Season fun? ;)
| DrBiggly | 02-17-2005 02:14 AM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx]I've been thinking of the ideal SM/SM2 car - cheap, light and good power. You know what comes to mind? A VW Bug. 1600 lbs., RWD, a 2.2L turbo w/o lag, plenty of space for big tires, etc. I could see one of this popping wheelies at ProSolos. :lol:
- Steve[/QUOTE]
Now THAT would be a sight to see. :lol: :lol:
- Steve[/QUOTE]
Now THAT would be a sight to see. :lol: :lol:
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