| Greg555 | 03-05-2001 07:14 PM |
The truth behind..................... PRODRIVE
So the European Rally Champion Krzysztof Holowczyc (KH) is not coming to Chattanooga, neither is Possum Bourne, Asia Pacific Champion. [url="http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Forum15/HTML/000137.html"]See thread[/url]
Anyone has any Idea why??? --- because our beloved Prodrive doesn`t want any real competition here. They want Vermont Sports Car to have an easy Victory (at least in N group). They know that either one would kick their asses with no problem, which wouldn`t be good thing for Prodrive/Vermont Sports Car alliance. So they just decided not to let KH and Possum to run here.
KH is driving under "Turning Point Management" which cooperates closely with Prodrive (they also manage Markko Martin) and Prodrive asked Turning Point not to let him use the car in USA. I don`t know the details why Possum is not competing here either, all I know is that he really wanted to, but also encountered some Prodrive related difficulties.
Just my few words.
Greg
Anyone has any Idea why??? --- because our beloved Prodrive doesn`t want any real competition here. They want Vermont Sports Car to have an easy Victory (at least in N group). They know that either one would kick their asses with no problem, which wouldn`t be good thing for Prodrive/Vermont Sports Car alliance. So they just decided not to let KH and Possum to run here.
KH is driving under "Turning Point Management" which cooperates closely with Prodrive (they also manage Markko Martin) and Prodrive asked Turning Point not to let him use the car in USA. I don`t know the details why Possum is not competing here either, all I know is that he really wanted to, but also encountered some Prodrive related difficulties.
Just my few words.
Greg
| Dave_Clark | 03-05-2001 09:14 PM |
Greg, are you surprised? Prodrive are huge control freaks.
| Jon Bogert | 03-05-2001 09:38 PM |
Don't you love how "professional" ProRally is getting? I think I'll start bringing a lawyer to events, in case something doesn't go my way...
| rsquire | 03-05-2001 09:58 PM |
[quote]Prodrive are huge control freaks[/quote]
Stuff Prodrive [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
You should not have used ...... and Capital letters in the subject line..
Don't you know that is the biggest, baddest mistake you can make on this board.. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
Now wait for the FIA stewards to hold an inquiry into the use of ........ oh and criticising Prodrive.. Well that's an immediate $50,000 fine as well [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Richard
Stuff Prodrive [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
You should not have used ...... and Capital letters in the subject line..
Don't you know that is the biggest, baddest mistake you can make on this board.. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
Now wait for the FIA stewards to hold an inquiry into the use of ........ oh and criticising Prodrive.. Well that's an immediate $50,000 fine as well [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Richard
| rsquire | 03-05-2001 10:02 PM |
[quote]I think I'll start bringing a lawyer to events[/quote]
Jon
Just make sure that you have your name and national flag ( of the specified size) on the front fenders (wings) of your car..
Then you can protest EVERYONE [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] under the FIA Sporting Conduct rules Chapter 17 para 208 [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
You think I'm joking [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img] I'm not mate [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
The SWRT and Peugot etc etc are actually technically illegal under the FIA rules [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
Richard
Jon
Just make sure that you have your name and national flag ( of the specified size) on the front fenders (wings) of your car..
Then you can protest EVERYONE [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] under the FIA Sporting Conduct rules Chapter 17 para 208 [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
You think I'm joking [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img] I'm not mate [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
The SWRT and Peugot etc etc are actually technically illegal under the FIA rules [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
Richard
| AutoXr | 03-05-2001 10:53 PM |
This really isn't any different than team orders in F1 or any other form of racing for that matter. It happens all the time in rallys. Remember when Delecour had to slow down last year to give the victory to Gronholm? This sounds like a different form is all. What's the big deal?
I can't say that I'm happy about the decision made by ProDrive.
I can't say that I'm happy about the decision made by ProDrive.
| TOMMY B | 03-05-2001 10:58 PM |
I do not know about prodrive stoping any one from rallying, But I would like to see it come out of the drivers lips, not by here say. Who know's thay maybe afraid of john Buffum ??? [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] RALLY ON ///////
| Greg555 | 03-06-2001 07:16 AM |
[quote]
But I would like to see it come out of the drivers lips, not by here say
[/quote]
Take my word for it. I know people that were doing the logistics behind inviting KH to drive here. And no, hes not scared of John Buffum. With all due respect to his skills and talent I think KH would kick his ass. Until yesterday I really liked Prodrive, for what they have done in WRC, but thats just pissing me off.
He was gonna be driving a Prodrive build car so I don`t see how bad would that be for them if he would come here. But the problem is that it wouldn`t be good for Vermont Sports car.
Anyways I`m pissed.
But I would like to see it come out of the drivers lips, not by here say
[/quote]
Take my word for it. I know people that were doing the logistics behind inviting KH to drive here. And no, hes not scared of John Buffum. With all due respect to his skills and talent I think KH would kick his ass. Until yesterday I really liked Prodrive, for what they have done in WRC, but thats just pissing me off.
He was gonna be driving a Prodrive build car so I don`t see how bad would that be for them if he would come here. But the problem is that it wouldn`t be good for Vermont Sports car.
Anyways I`m pissed.
| TOMMY B | 03-06-2001 08:55 AM |
Chill out Mr 555, My comment about your friend being afraid of John Buffum was A [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] JOKE !!!, Any one that drive's at the WRC level must be a out of this world. John Buffum is the best RALLY DRIVER from the U.S.A and thats who I'm pulling for. I do not see the need to keep blowing smoke about your friend from Poland. Do you realy care that much ???? Try Rallying more your self [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] RALLY ON //////
| Damon | 03-06-2001 09:42 AM |
its terrible, but dirty polotics make its way into everything in our lives in some way shape form or fashion doesnt it? [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/frown.gif[/img]
| TOMMY B | 03-06-2001 09:53 AM |
This Has nothing to do with Poloics here, "We" are both talking about rallying !!. Do not try and make it any more of it then it is !!! "God help us all" RALLY ON /////
| Greg555 | 03-06-2001 11:18 AM |
Ok Mr Tommy
Yes I do really care that much, it took us months to get the sponsors and set everything up, and regardles of how good Buffum is I was hoping to see some World Class driving finally here.
Even If I didn`t know the guy, how fare is it to let some people run and others don`t.
Yes I do really care that much, it took us months to get the sponsors and set everything up, and regardles of how good Buffum is I was hoping to see some World Class driving finally here.
Even If I didn`t know the guy, how fare is it to let some people run and others don`t.
| SnapperHead | 03-06-2001 11:22 AM |
Off note here, I just found it funny Tommy told Greg, of all people, to rally more.
Sorry, just found that amusing.
Sorry, just found that amusing.
| 8Complex | 03-06-2001 11:29 AM |
Snapperhead - I was just thinking the same thing. He'd think different if he saw Greg's 'body kit'. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
| Jon Bogert | 03-06-2001 11:36 AM |
OK, for all of us not from Schaumburg IL, who's Greg555 and why is it so darn funny that Tom (in his own slightly abrasive way) suggest Greg might want to run some rallies?
| Greg555 | 03-06-2001 11:40 AM |
Greg would if he could
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
| SnapperHead | 03-06-2001 11:51 AM |
Well yes, you would have to know Greg in order to find that funny, which is why you shouldn't say things about people you don't know. Like telling him to rally. Greg is who introduced me heavy into rally. He follows it religiously, and as he said. If he had more $$$$$$ he'd be doing it more frequently. For someone to say he shouldn't care about this, well, its pretty foolish. Coming from Poland, Greg was very saturated with Rally, seeing is its huge over there. unfortunately, here in the midwest state of IL, it's hard to find local rallies. Lets just say he drives his car like a rally driver. And its fun as hell to drive with him.
| 10th Warrior | 03-06-2001 03:06 PM |
that is disappointing. although rumor has it Bourne (who i was really looking forward to seeing) is going to be there observing.
| Strepto | 03-06-2001 03:26 PM |
kind of like when that newbie told Kartboy to learn how to drive, eh? [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
| Shik | 03-06-2001 04:01 PM |
Getting back to the topic a bit. Is it really so wrong for Prodrive to implement these "rules"?
When you look at it through Prodrive's as well as SOA's point of view, it makes a bit of sence. On one hand you have SOA releasing a car in a virtually untouched, and still questionable niche market. On the other hand, I have heard numerous talks about Prodrive looking to market their products in the US very heavily in the future.
From a marketing point of view, what better form of promotion would there be then a Prodrive prepared Subaru WRX winning rallies in the US, especially with the way the Pro Rally is growing in popularity.
I'd like to see more world-class drivers run here in the US as much as anyone. Maybe Prodrive pulled the other guys out for a different reason, but if what I mentioned above has any basis on their decision, I can see why they would do so. Maybe not agree totally, but can understand why it was done.
When you look at it through Prodrive's as well as SOA's point of view, it makes a bit of sence. On one hand you have SOA releasing a car in a virtually untouched, and still questionable niche market. On the other hand, I have heard numerous talks about Prodrive looking to market their products in the US very heavily in the future.
From a marketing point of view, what better form of promotion would there be then a Prodrive prepared Subaru WRX winning rallies in the US, especially with the way the Pro Rally is growing in popularity.
I'd like to see more world-class drivers run here in the US as much as anyone. Maybe Prodrive pulled the other guys out for a different reason, but if what I mentioned above has any basis on their decision, I can see why they would do so. Maybe not agree totally, but can understand why it was done.
| RallyKid | 03-06-2001 09:11 PM |
KH would have been running(and winnning) in an identical car as Scheible is running. Which offcorse means that even if KH did win teh rally, a Prodrive build Gr.N Impreza would still be on the podium.
| Greg555 | 03-07-2001 12:02 AM |
Yeah
Whatever Jay said...
Whatever Jay said...
| 98mpreziveRS | 03-07-2001 12:16 AM |
i agree..and he has a killer "body" kit/battle wounds from Rallying around here.
Greg is a great guy, i can say this becuase I KNOW him. I too feel the same way Greg does, this sucks, Prodrive is ruining a shot at becoming a big name in the american household and instead letting VT motorsports become a umm..how to put it... mediocre sized name with rally fans. They do great work and every it is just well.. they sholdn't let the one effect the other.
lets use company X for example.
They build cars for multiple teams running against each other, but they keep doing it, why because they are doing what they love and it gets their name out to more and more people, along with being able to help the teams grow and help the company grow at the same time.
This is what it should be like..but it isnt' [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
anyhow, Greg i hear on the $$$ issue, my pocket is REALLY hurting after the motor and the new car *shrug* aghh well.. that's life. live and learn, and then go make another mistake and learn from that, and use all the things you learned to do something positive for somebody, be it yourself, somebody else, etc. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
i will shut up now..i am mumbling away for no reason what so ever. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
and how can you tell Greg to rally more..i don't think it is possible [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Greg is a great guy, i can say this becuase I KNOW him. I too feel the same way Greg does, this sucks, Prodrive is ruining a shot at becoming a big name in the american household and instead letting VT motorsports become a umm..how to put it... mediocre sized name with rally fans. They do great work and every it is just well.. they sholdn't let the one effect the other.
lets use company X for example.
They build cars for multiple teams running against each other, but they keep doing it, why because they are doing what they love and it gets their name out to more and more people, along with being able to help the teams grow and help the company grow at the same time.
This is what it should be like..but it isnt' [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
anyhow, Greg i hear on the $$$ issue, my pocket is REALLY hurting after the motor and the new car *shrug* aghh well.. that's life. live and learn, and then go make another mistake and learn from that, and use all the things you learned to do something positive for somebody, be it yourself, somebody else, etc. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
i will shut up now..i am mumbling away for no reason what so ever. [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
and how can you tell Greg to rally more..i don't think it is possible [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
| Shik | 03-07-2001 03:13 AM |
Very true Rallykid, I see your point. But another way to look at it is similar to Andrew Cowan's(RalliArt UK Boss) thoughts that without competition, there would be no use for motorsports at all.
Subaru and Prodrive want to see the two Prodrive Imprezas beating the best that there is [b]here[/b]( The Hyundai guys, the Mitsubishi guys, etc.), not two guys most have never heard of over here driving identical Imprezas.
And who knows. Subaru may plan on truely working Mark Lovell and Karl Scheible into possible commercials, Magazine Adds, or even dealer posters or something. The last thing Subaru would need is for two realitively unkown guys( again, here in the states anyway) to come over hear and beat them.
Subaru and Prodrive are businesses and must make decisions based on the results of many different scenarios( what I mentioned above), not just one possible outcome( more possible Imprezas on the podium).
It's similar to a team order. No one really likes to see them. But at the end of the year if the team orders helped bring a driver's or manufacturer's championship to that company, those one or two rounds where the team orders were implemented are quickly forgotten, but the championship is remembered( and exploited) for alot longer.
I could be way off though [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Subaru and Prodrive want to see the two Prodrive Imprezas beating the best that there is [b]here[/b]( The Hyundai guys, the Mitsubishi guys, etc.), not two guys most have never heard of over here driving identical Imprezas.
And who knows. Subaru may plan on truely working Mark Lovell and Karl Scheible into possible commercials, Magazine Adds, or even dealer posters or something. The last thing Subaru would need is for two realitively unkown guys( again, here in the states anyway) to come over hear and beat them.
Subaru and Prodrive are businesses and must make decisions based on the results of many different scenarios( what I mentioned above), not just one possible outcome( more possible Imprezas on the podium).
It's similar to a team order. No one really likes to see them. But at the end of the year if the team orders helped bring a driver's or manufacturer's championship to that company, those one or two rounds where the team orders were implemented are quickly forgotten, but the championship is remembered( and exploited) for alot longer.
I could be way off though [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
| TOMMY B | 03-07-2001 04:52 AM |
HI, Tommy B here, I see your point Greg 555, But I see it just the other way, Prodrive makes contracts with people "your freind K.H" and V.T. sport car and others, Prodrive is Honouring there word, so is your freind, I must say that Prodrive is good and your freind too, If he had thought he was in a bad deal he would leave Prodrive.
now for you commemts about me, I have not rallyed as much as i did in the past but, I will be at STPR this year god willing. Over the past 3 years i have gotten married,had a new baby girl,bult a new home 4,000 Sft that I G.C. my self. I Will go head to head with you at a rally and let the better man win [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] Tell us about your rally car so I know what i have to look forward too, I have 91 Trubo legacy in (PGT) what do you have??? or are you just a rally enthusiast ?? or Both like me ?? RALLY ON ////////
[This message has been edited by TOMMY B (edited March 07, 2001).]
now for you commemts about me, I have not rallyed as much as i did in the past but, I will be at STPR this year god willing. Over the past 3 years i have gotten married,had a new baby girl,bult a new home 4,000 Sft that I G.C. my self. I Will go head to head with you at a rally and let the better man win [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] Tell us about your rally car so I know what i have to look forward too, I have 91 Trubo legacy in (PGT) what do you have??? or are you just a rally enthusiast ?? or Both like me ?? RALLY ON ////////
[This message has been edited by TOMMY B (edited March 07, 2001).]
| SnapperHead | 03-07-2001 07:39 AM |
Tommy, it seems you don't quite understand the situation. First off, Greg never told you he was better than you, I just found it funny you told him he should Rally more, when in fact, he does every chance he gets. So he never personally attacked you, or told you he was better than you. You came to that conclusion all on your own.
Secondly, KH doesn't drive FOR ProDrive, he was just going to use one of their cars. VT Sports Car is the one with the problem really, not ProDrive. But the money for ProDrive is coming from VTSC. VTSC didn't like the fact KH was going to drive a ProDrive car. And seeing is VTSC was going to be pushing ProDrive products, they need one of their own to win.
The sponsoring didn't come from ProDrive, it come from elsewhere, but now that ProDrive pulled the use of their car, KH cannot find another car in time. Which sux.
Hope this helps explain the situation. Correct me if I'm wrong Greg, or Dan.
Secondly, KH doesn't drive FOR ProDrive, he was just going to use one of their cars. VT Sports Car is the one with the problem really, not ProDrive. But the money for ProDrive is coming from VTSC. VTSC didn't like the fact KH was going to drive a ProDrive car. And seeing is VTSC was going to be pushing ProDrive products, they need one of their own to win.
The sponsoring didn't come from ProDrive, it come from elsewhere, but now that ProDrive pulled the use of their car, KH cannot find another car in time. Which sux.
Hope this helps explain the situation. Correct me if I'm wrong Greg, or Dan.
| SnapperHead | 03-07-2001 07:41 AM |
Don't get me wrong, I love the fact Sheible kicked arse in Group N. Like Greg says, it would be nice to see some international competition at this level.
| Greg555 | 03-07-2001 08:36 AM |
and yes he did pull out of Prodrive.
Last year he was driving a Impreza WRC, this year hes got 206 WRC.
The car he was gonna drive here was his practice car - Prodrive build Impreza.
Unfortunately both cars are owned by Turning Point management, and they refused him to use either on in USA on Prodrive request.
Last year he was driving a Impreza WRC, this year hes got 206 WRC.
The car he was gonna drive here was his practice car - Prodrive build Impreza.
Unfortunately both cars are owned by Turning Point management, and they refused him to use either on in USA on Prodrive request.
| mykrrrr | 03-07-2001 09:33 AM |
It shouldn't matter what car KH is driving and he shouls be allowed to enter but if it is owned by TP management and they have an agreement with Prodrive/VTCar then that's a "sticky" situation.
TOMMY B - Get this I've got a rally car and I race chip off your shoulder. Having a rally car doesn't make you better than anyone. I'm pretty sure an RS could go head to head with your Legacy GT.
I've known Greg for a while and he's a complete rally enthusiast. He just doesn't have the funds right now to start racing competitively.
Not all of us are blessed with your OBVIOUS superior fiancial status. Don't go bragging about your 4000 Sq.ft house...who really gives a rat's a#$ about that.
Don't go spouting ****e about someone you know nothing about...
-myk
TOMMY B - Get this I've got a rally car and I race chip off your shoulder. Having a rally car doesn't make you better than anyone. I'm pretty sure an RS could go head to head with your Legacy GT.
I've known Greg for a while and he's a complete rally enthusiast. He just doesn't have the funds right now to start racing competitively.
Not all of us are blessed with your OBVIOUS superior fiancial status. Don't go bragging about your 4000 Sq.ft house...who really gives a rat's a#$ about that.
Don't go spouting ****e about someone you know nothing about...
-myk
| Greg555 | 03-07-2001 09:39 AM |
Thank you guys for the support
How about sponsoring me since you all are in such a positive mood...
How about sponsoring me since you all are in such a positive mood...
| SnapperHead | 03-07-2001 09:48 AM |
Don't forget Greg, we have a deal to split converting my car to an STI [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img], keep your contracts open till next season.
| TOMMY B | 03-07-2001 11:19 AM |
Mykrrr, Get with it, you and all your buds have been flameing me non-stop. A Qustion was asked of me How come I have not been rallying as of late ?? so I said what I have been doing over the last 3 years(You did not like the answers). Just becouse I have a rally car does not make me better then any one, many people on this board give no respect to any one but them selfs, I do not rally to win I do it to be come a better driver and have fun, I have put in my time and have learn a lot mostly from older people who I have competed with. But I can see that you do not any input from me. Stop flameing me [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
| Jon Bogert | 03-07-2001 01:59 PM |
Oooohhhh Kaaaayyy. I thought I was helping... but maybe not. Nevermind then.
Blind Jon---->[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/cool.gif[/img]
Blind Jon---->[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/cool.gif[/img]
| SnapperHead | 03-08-2001 12:18 AM |
OK, lets start with some facts here.
First off Tommy, you started with
[quote]
Chill out Mr 555 (could be taken as some form of insult), My comment about your friend being afraid of John Buffum was A JOKE !!!, Any one that drive's at the WRC level must be a out of this world. John Buffum is the best RALLY DRIVER from the U.S.A and thats who I'm pulling for. I do not see the need to keep blowing smoke about your friend from Poland (again, could be taken as flaming). Do you realy care that much (apparently) ???? Try Rallying more your self (statement made without knowing anything) RALLY ON //////
[/quote]
Those words are what started my amusement. Greg never once said anything personal towards you, nor did anyone say
[quote]
A Qustion was asked of me How come I have not been rallying as of late ??
[/quote]
No one said anything about you rallying, you pulled that from somewhere, not sure where. Anyway. Point being, you flamed him for caring, flamed him by saying maybe he should rally more, and then made up stuff that no one said to you. Don't make personal attacks against someone you don't know.
Point made Greg, perhaps this thread should get closed before it gets out of hand.
First off Tommy, you started with
[quote]
Chill out Mr 555 (could be taken as some form of insult), My comment about your friend being afraid of John Buffum was A JOKE !!!, Any one that drive's at the WRC level must be a out of this world. John Buffum is the best RALLY DRIVER from the U.S.A and thats who I'm pulling for. I do not see the need to keep blowing smoke about your friend from Poland (again, could be taken as flaming). Do you realy care that much (apparently) ???? Try Rallying more your self (statement made without knowing anything) RALLY ON //////
[/quote]
Those words are what started my amusement. Greg never once said anything personal towards you, nor did anyone say
[quote]
A Qustion was asked of me How come I have not been rallying as of late ??
[/quote]
No one said anything about you rallying, you pulled that from somewhere, not sure where. Anyway. Point being, you flamed him for caring, flamed him by saying maybe he should rally more, and then made up stuff that no one said to you. Don't make personal attacks against someone you don't know.
Point made Greg, perhaps this thread should get closed before it gets out of hand.
| Shik | 03-08-2001 12:27 AM |
It's already out of hand, and I agree it should be closed. C'mon guys, this is the motorsports forum for cying out loud, not the general or off-topic forums [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Besides, the topic as it stands now is only concerning two or three people and no one else can really benefit from any of the stuff being discussed, so why not use e-mail or PM's and keep the Motorsports forum clean? There really is no reason for this thread to remain open.
Besides, the topic as it stands now is only concerning two or three people and no one else can really benefit from any of the stuff being discussed, so why not use e-mail or PM's and keep the Motorsports forum clean? There really is no reason for this thread to remain open.
| RallyKid | 03-08-2001 12:34 AM |
NOOOOO, don't close it!!!
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [b]Fight Fight[/b][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [b]Fight Fight[/b][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
| Jon Bogert | 03-08-2001 12:40 AM |
Just to clarify, the only ABSOLUTE difference between a rally driver and a rally wanna-be is the size of his wallet. That's not to say that ProRallying hasn't made me a much better driver--it has. No amount of rallycrossing or "drifting" will ever compare to going 110mph right on the limit at STPR.
So Tommy, give the guy a break. If he had a car and a budget he might well drive circles around you. On the other hand, the rest of you guys should understand that having a buddy who likes to drive fast in the woods is nice and it's fun, but in the world of people who DO and people who TALK--your comments made it pretty clear that you're in the latter category.
So Tommy, give the guy a break. If he had a car and a budget he might well drive circles around you. On the other hand, the rest of you guys should understand that having a buddy who likes to drive fast in the woods is nice and it's fun, but in the world of people who DO and people who TALK--your comments made it pretty clear that you're in the latter category.
| TOMMY B | 03-08-2001 12:44 AM |
That cool with me [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] RALLY ON /////
| SnapperHead | 03-08-2001 12:54 AM |
[quote]
On the other hand, the rest of you guys should understand that having a buddy who likes to drive fast in the woods is nice and it's fun, but in the world of people who DO and people who TALK--your comments made it pretty clear that you're in the latter category.
[/quote]
My god, its blind comments like that which started this whole thing.
I'm the only one who hasn't rallied, Greg has, I never said anything about anyone's rallying ability. Neither did Greg for that matter. So, dismount High Horse, and realize it started with Tommy flaming, and not knowing the person he was flaming. No body was talking crap but Tommy. So TALK was not done.
| PURE EPI | 03-08-2001 12:55 AM |
[i]"...you kids shouldn't play so rough... somebody's gonna start cryin' " -- Micheal Madsen , Reservoir Dogs[/i]
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by PURE EPI (edited March 07, 2001).]
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by PURE EPI (edited March 07, 2001).]
| Dave_Clark | 03-08-2001 04:29 AM |
Just for the record I've seen Greg drive in a rallycross in Minnesota and he's very good. I'd like to see him compete in a real rally, he could probably give the likes of Pat Richard a run for their money.
Which brings up a point. I think a lot of people on this board use the term "rally" very generally. As in "I'm going rallying this weekend", or "I drove in a rally last week" when they really mean TSD rally or rallycross.
So when someone says that Greg rallies all the time I think they mean rallycross. Which can confuse some of us ProRally license holders because we've never seen him entered in a Performance Rally. (Although he's always there spectating and loaning out spare tires and stuff![img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/cool.gif[/img] )
I'm not dogging on Greg or anyone who does rallycross, I'm just pointing out an important distinction. And I'm kind of coming to Tommy's defense because I know he didn't mean any ill will, he just wasn't aware of Greg's involvement because rallycross (squashing cones on a grass field) and stage rallying (flipping cars in the woods) are sort of different worlds.
[This message has been edited by DMS-USA (edited March 08, 2001).]
Which brings up a point. I think a lot of people on this board use the term "rally" very generally. As in "I'm going rallying this weekend", or "I drove in a rally last week" when they really mean TSD rally or rallycross.
So when someone says that Greg rallies all the time I think they mean rallycross. Which can confuse some of us ProRally license holders because we've never seen him entered in a Performance Rally. (Although he's always there spectating and loaning out spare tires and stuff![img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/cool.gif[/img] )
I'm not dogging on Greg or anyone who does rallycross, I'm just pointing out an important distinction. And I'm kind of coming to Tommy's defense because I know he didn't mean any ill will, he just wasn't aware of Greg's involvement because rallycross (squashing cones on a grass field) and stage rallying (flipping cars in the woods) are sort of different worlds.
[This message has been edited by DMS-USA (edited March 08, 2001).]
| mykrrrr | 03-08-2001 08:18 AM |
Jon - Performance rally is where you have to drive thru the woods at safe speeds and make the time controls EXACTLY right??? [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif[/img]
-myk
-myk
| Jon Bogert | 03-08-2001 09:43 AM |
Well, not if you believe the SCCA marketing machine. The old term was "Performance TSD" or "Brisk TSD" to describe a rally where you must be on time, but may have to drive fast to make it.
The SCCA recently defined "Performance Rally" as ProRally and ClubRally (rallies with flat out, fastest time wins stages) specifically excluding any kind of TSD rallies run on public roads.
The SCCA recently defined "Performance Rally" as ProRally and ClubRally (rallies with flat out, fastest time wins stages) specifically excluding any kind of TSD rallies run on public roads.
| mykrrrr | 03-08-2001 11:50 PM |
Jon - just kidding I know the difference btw brisk TSD stuff & ProRally...just playin' around...heheehee [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
Dave - I agree that the term "rally" is thrown around WAY too much on this board. To me there is only one type of rallying: WRC/SCCA/CARS style "go as fast as you can and don't stuff it."
-myk
Dave - I agree that the term "rally" is thrown around WAY too much on this board. To me there is only one type of rallying: WRC/SCCA/CARS style "go as fast as you can and don't stuff it."
-myk
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