| Th3Franz | 05-17-2006 02:10 PM |
Track day insurance
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�
Searched.. couldn't find a good thread. I'm looking for track day insurance for my car in case something bad were to happen while on a road course.
I'm pretty sure my regular car insurance doesn't cover stuff on a road course, so I'm just not even going to bother asking them about it. I want to find a different track insurance company that would provide coverage for the lapping days and driver schools on road courses. All the events I do are NOT timed, so I assume I could get some insurance. So please suggest some companies or offer insight on my situation. Thanks
I'm pretty sure my regular car insurance doesn't cover stuff on a road course, so I'm just not even going to bother asking them about it. I want to find a different track insurance company that would provide coverage for the lapping days and driver schools on road courses. All the events I do are NOT timed, so I assume I could get some insurance. So please suggest some companies or offer insight on my situation. Thanks
| SloRice | 05-17-2006 03:25 PM |
My buddy is an insurance agent and he said there is insurance out there for motorsports applications. But it's UBER-expensive!! That's all I know.
| Jack | 05-17-2006 03:31 PM |
Pull your insurance policy out and really read it. Massachusetts and I now hear Virginia have specific verbage following the bone head Porsche guy who not only totalled 2 cars but after getting the money for the second went to the ins company to try to get money for all his upgrades. In short, they specifically exclude pretty much any organized event that includes driving. I read my policy (actually, my parents owned an insurance agency at the time and my mom highlighted the important parts). Taken literally, a parade, TSD rally, fun rally all render your insurance invalid. My present insurance policy for my track days is a cheap track-only car. The car's worth about $4k. Expect a motorsport policy that covers your car completely for a day to be in that range.
jack
jack
| turboICE | 05-17-2006 03:47 PM |
[url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_policy.htm[/url]
In the states coverage is provided 1.5% of the assessed value with a 20% deductible. Hundreds for the year not thousands for the day.
In the states coverage is provided 1.5% of the assessed value with a 20% deductible. Hundreds for the year not thousands for the day.
| leecea | 05-17-2006 05:01 PM |
I'm not sure what they will cover. Here is their list of qualifications:
Your vehicle may qualify for Driver�s Ed insurance if it is:
- A Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Viper or similar performance vehicle
- Stored in a locked garage or trailer when not in use
- Not driven by anyone with less than 10 years driving experience during a Driver�s Ed event
- Currently insured for liability with another company
Assuming you are old enough and have a garage, the only real issue is whether they consider your car to be a "similar performance vehicle". Plus, note the word "may". It will be the underwriters who make the call.
Your vehicle may qualify for Driver�s Ed insurance if it is:
- A Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Viper or similar performance vehicle
- Stored in a locked garage or trailer when not in use
- Not driven by anyone with less than 10 years driving experience during a Driver�s Ed event
- Currently insured for liability with another company
Assuming you are old enough and have a garage, the only real issue is whether they consider your car to be a "similar performance vehicle". Plus, note the word "may". It will be the underwriters who make the call.
| RB5 Clone | 05-17-2006 09:43 PM |
simple time-tested answer to your question
"...if you can't afford to wreck it, you can't afford to race it..."
Dave G
"...if you can't afford to wreck it, you can't afford to race it..."
Dave G
| leecea | 05-17-2006 10:40 PM |
Well, that's certainly true with racing which is excluded from the DE policy mentioned above. However, I know that trackday insurance is pretty standard in the UK, for DE type events. If the American Collectors policy covered our type of cars, it would seem like a pretty good alternative to "self insured". Of course it only covers you, so if you crash into someone else, you may still be up the creek.
| Th3Franz | 05-18-2006 02:08 AM |
[QUOTE=leecea]
Your vehicle may qualify for Driver�s Ed insurance if it is:
- A Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Viper or similar performance vehicle
Possibly.. A Legacy GT isn't at the level of those cars though lol
- Stored in a locked garage or trailer when not in use
Yes.
- Not driven by anyone with less than 10 years driving experience during a Driver�s Ed event
This sucks. Around half that time.. :(
- Currently insured for liability with another company
Yes.
[/QUOTE]
Hm, perhaps it is time to find a dedicated track car..
Your vehicle may qualify for Driver�s Ed insurance if it is:
- A Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Viper or similar performance vehicle
Possibly.. A Legacy GT isn't at the level of those cars though lol
- Stored in a locked garage or trailer when not in use
Yes.
- Not driven by anyone with less than 10 years driving experience during a Driver�s Ed event
This sucks. Around half that time.. :(
- Currently insured for liability with another company
Yes.
[/QUOTE]
Hm, perhaps it is time to find a dedicated track car..
| fliz | 05-18-2006 10:04 AM |
[QUOTE=Th3Franz]Hm, perhaps it is time to find a dedicated track car..[/QUOTE]
I've got an '85 VW GTI, caged, w/ a 2.0 8v swap and decent suspension I'm looking to sell...great track day car.
I've got an '85 VW GTI, caged, w/ a 2.0 8v swap and decent suspension I'm looking to sell...great track day car.
| Th3Franz | 05-18-2006 12:05 PM |
Tempting Chad.. too bad I know nothing about VW's. Maybe I can get my neighbor's 91 MR2 Turbo with only 70k on the odo..
| rankink | 05-18-2006 12:17 PM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]simple time-tested answer to your question
"...if you can't afford to wreck it, you can't afford to race it..."
Dave G[/QUOTE]
Gee, I was wondering when someone would have to say that. That is why the poster is discussing special track day insurance in addition to his regular car insurance.
"...if you can't afford to wreck it, you can't afford to race it..."
Dave G[/QUOTE]
Gee, I was wondering when someone would have to say that. That is why the poster is discussing special track day insurance in addition to his regular car insurance.
| Joshw | 05-19-2006 11:08 AM |
[QUOTE=rankink]Gee, I was wondering when someone would have to say that. That is why the poster is discussing special track day insurance in addition to his regular car insurance.[/QUOTE]
More specifically: If you can't afford to wreck it, you can't afford to do anything outside of the guidelines of your current insurance policy.
That means, if you cant afford to wreck it, don't do anything that would couase a claim to be denied if reported to your agent. ---street racing, TSD, autocross, rallycross, track days, etc etc.
If you don't realize (and accept) that playing with cars means being comfortable with the chance of throwing it all away in an instant, you either don't have the wallet or the stomach or both.
Us rally guys have to carry regular insurance on our cars for transits on public roadways. If I were to wreck my rally car while driving around town, I would get a check for about $1000 even though it would cost $12-17k to replace the car.
More specifically: If you can't afford to wreck it, you can't afford to do anything outside of the guidelines of your current insurance policy.
That means, if you cant afford to wreck it, don't do anything that would couase a claim to be denied if reported to your agent. ---street racing, TSD, autocross, rallycross, track days, etc etc.
If you don't realize (and accept) that playing with cars means being comfortable with the chance of throwing it all away in an instant, you either don't have the wallet or the stomach or both.
Us rally guys have to carry regular insurance on our cars for transits on public roadways. If I were to wreck my rally car while driving around town, I would get a check for about $1000 even though it would cost $12-17k to replace the car.
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 11:23 AM |
Does that mean that he shouldn't be able to desire or seek coverage for a noncompetitive event on track?
The papa preaching is all fine and dandy - but if he wants to get coverage for DE and is able to find it he should get it.
If he can find coverage and can pay for it - then he has paid to play and there is nothing to knock him for it.
Lets just kill another part of motorsports and tell people with historic cars that if they can't afford to lose the car without seeking an insurance policy that they shouldn't be taking their cars out on tracks.
If it takes an insurance policy to get another car out on a road course track I say support them don't discourage them.
The papa preaching is all fine and dandy - but if he wants to get coverage for DE and is able to find it he should get it.
If he can find coverage and can pay for it - then he has paid to play and there is nothing to knock him for it.
Lets just kill another part of motorsports and tell people with historic cars that if they can't afford to lose the car without seeking an insurance policy that they shouldn't be taking their cars out on tracks.
If it takes an insurance policy to get another car out on a road course track I say support them don't discourage them.
| RichardM | 05-19-2006 11:41 AM |
[QUOTE=turboICE][url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_policy.htm[/url]
In the states coverage is provided 1.5% of the assessed value with a 20% deductible. Hundreds for the year not thousands for the day.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, this policy is not available to a Subaru owner who wants to take their every day car to the track. It is available to the rich dudes who can afford to lose the car. Mean while talk to your own insurance rep and ask. More than likely, the car will not be covered on DE days but it might be. If you search hard enough, you may find a policy that will cover DE. But it won't be cheap. So you are back to the old saying, if you can't do with out it, don't race it. This is a hard fact of life.
Also, speaking of insurance, if you have life insurance, be sure the policy writer knows you race.
In the states coverage is provided 1.5% of the assessed value with a 20% deductible. Hundreds for the year not thousands for the day.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, this policy is not available to a Subaru owner who wants to take their every day car to the track. It is available to the rich dudes who can afford to lose the car. Mean while talk to your own insurance rep and ask. More than likely, the car will not be covered on DE days but it might be. If you search hard enough, you may find a policy that will cover DE. But it won't be cheap. So you are back to the old saying, if you can't do with out it, don't race it. This is a hard fact of life.
Also, speaking of insurance, if you have life insurance, be sure the policy writer knows you race.
| RB5 Clone | 05-19-2006 12:03 PM |
insurance, inschmurance
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�
"Papa preaching" ?? not quite. not trying to discourage anybody, just being realistic.
simple fact is, insurance companies are averse to risk. driving fast involves risk, therefore track day insurance is super pricey. it's generally more than any normal person is able/willing to pay.
much depends on your ins co and your agent. some agents try to help their customers, others try to protect ins co above all. your agent should be able to explain policy exclusions to you. I've heard of ppl getting the OK from agents for regular ins coverage of DE days as "driver training" but that's rare.
doing track days with your daily driver is most likely a kind of a "don't ask, don't tell, don't crash" undertaking. remembering this is a good incentive to keep your brain engaged out on the track. listen to the instructor. tone down your racing fantasy and work at becoming a better driver in manageable steps. you will probably find that you make your biggest strides in ability by SLOWING DOWN out there.
accept the risk, remember it, drive accordingly and you'll be OK.
Dave G
simple fact is, insurance companies are averse to risk. driving fast involves risk, therefore track day insurance is super pricey. it's generally more than any normal person is able/willing to pay.
much depends on your ins co and your agent. some agents try to help their customers, others try to protect ins co above all. your agent should be able to explain policy exclusions to you. I've heard of ppl getting the OK from agents for regular ins coverage of DE days as "driver training" but that's rare.
doing track days with your daily driver is most likely a kind of a "don't ask, don't tell, don't crash" undertaking. remembering this is a good incentive to keep your brain engaged out on the track. listen to the instructor. tone down your racing fantasy and work at becoming a better driver in manageable steps. you will probably find that you make your biggest strides in ability by SLOWING DOWN out there.
accept the risk, remember it, drive accordingly and you'll be OK.
Dave G
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 12:03 PM |
[QUOTE=RichardM]Unfortunately, this policy is not available to a Subaru owner who wants to take their every day car to the track. It is available to the rich dudes who can afford to lose the car.[/quote]
Such a confident absolutely certain answer. I didn't post it just because a link existed, I know for a fact that this DE coverage is available for people exactly like Th3Franz. I just got off the phone with an agent (Orlando 856-382-3213). If I lived in PA instead of NJ, then I would be able to get this insurance as a supplement to my regular insurance on my daily driven STi. The car examples are neither exclusive nor exhaustive - any car can get this supplemental DE coverage in the states it is offered.
Not sure exactly where you think it says you couldn't.
Where it isn't offered is where insurance regulators don't understand the supplemental insurance and related DE event waivers - the states it isn't offered in want them to include liability on the policy and they don't want to underwrite liability. Hence why if you can find coverage in those other states it becomes so expensive - if you find someone to offer it they have to give you liability coverage as well.
[quote]Also, speaking of insurance, if you have life insurance, be sure the policy writer knows you race.[/QUOTE]That would depend on a lot. I have never seen a group policy that would exclude DE or club competition as an insurable event. And on an individual policy after a certain length of time outstanding it would not be excludable either, unless originally underwritten to exclude it. Check the policy first then talk to the agent about whether or not underwriting excluded the activity.
Such a confident absolutely certain answer. I didn't post it just because a link existed, I know for a fact that this DE coverage is available for people exactly like Th3Franz. I just got off the phone with an agent (Orlando 856-382-3213). If I lived in PA instead of NJ, then I would be able to get this insurance as a supplement to my regular insurance on my daily driven STi. The car examples are neither exclusive nor exhaustive - any car can get this supplemental DE coverage in the states it is offered.
Not sure exactly where you think it says you couldn't.
Where it isn't offered is where insurance regulators don't understand the supplemental insurance and related DE event waivers - the states it isn't offered in want them to include liability on the policy and they don't want to underwrite liability. Hence why if you can find coverage in those other states it becomes so expensive - if you find someone to offer it they have to give you liability coverage as well.
[quote]Also, speaking of insurance, if you have life insurance, be sure the policy writer knows you race.[/QUOTE]That would depend on a lot. I have never seen a group policy that would exclude DE or club competition as an insurable event. And on an individual policy after a certain length of time outstanding it would not be excludable either, unless originally underwritten to exclude it. Check the policy first then talk to the agent about whether or not underwriting excluded the activity.
| RB5 Clone | 05-19-2006 12:07 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]I know for a fact that this DE coverage is available for people exactly like Th3Franz. I just got off the phone with and agent (Orlando 856-382-3213). If I lived in PA instead of NJ, then I would be able to get this insurance as a supplement to my regular insurance on my daily driven STi.
/QUOTE]
Good detective work, do you have a ballpark figure for coverage $ ?? Does it go per day or what?
Dave G
/QUOTE]
Good detective work, do you have a ballpark figure for coverage $ ?? Does it go per day or what?
Dave G
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 12:11 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE][url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_policy.htm[/url]
In the states coverage is provided 1.5% of the assessed value with a 20% deductible. Hundreds for the year not thousands for the day.[/QUOTE]
It is an annual policy. If you go with an assessed value of $25,000 you pay ~ $375. (Keep in mind that your deductible still is $5,000)
Here are the states covered:
CA, CT, FL, GA, IL MD, MI, MN, NC, OH, PA, WA, and WI (that is you Th3)
Those are states it is issued in - it will cover you doing a DE in another state.
In the states coverage is provided 1.5% of the assessed value with a 20% deductible. Hundreds for the year not thousands for the day.[/QUOTE]
It is an annual policy. If you go with an assessed value of $25,000 you pay ~ $375. (Keep in mind that your deductible still is $5,000)
Here are the states covered:
CA, CT, FL, GA, IL MD, MI, MN, NC, OH, PA, WA, and WI (that is you Th3)
Those are states it is issued in - it will cover you doing a DE in another state.
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 12:18 PM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]simple fact is, insurance companies are averse to risk. driving fast involves risk, therefore track day insurance is super pricey. it's generally more than any normal person is able/willing to pay.[/QUOTE]But that isn't the case in the state in which Th3Franz lives in.
Heck even if you go with a $5,000 car to DEs, why not pay $75 a year to recover $4,000 if you total it.
Heck even if you go with a $5,000 car to DEs, why not pay $75 a year to recover $4,000 if you total it.
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 12:21 PM |
Keep in mind this is DE, any timing would likely void your coverage. NO TT or W2W racing.
And DE is NOT racing, so not sure why that topic kept coming up.
[QUOTE=Th3Franz]I want to find a different track insurance company that would provide coverage for the lapping days and driver schools on road courses. All the events I do are NOT timed, so I assume I could get some insurance. So please suggest some companies or offer insight on my situation. Thanks[/QUOTE]
I was answering the question posted, not sure why it so hard on NASIOC Motorsports for people to just to answer the question posted instead of parental lectures on the assumption of risk in racing. By the time someone is racing they are well aware and are rightfully assuming risks of loss. I would rather see Th3Franz on track and feeling a bit less uncomfortable than discouraging him.
And DE is NOT racing, so not sure why that topic kept coming up.
[QUOTE=Th3Franz]I want to find a different track insurance company that would provide coverage for the lapping days and driver schools on road courses. All the events I do are NOT timed, so I assume I could get some insurance. So please suggest some companies or offer insight on my situation. Thanks[/QUOTE]
I was answering the question posted, not sure why it so hard on NASIOC Motorsports for people to just to answer the question posted instead of parental lectures on the assumption of risk in racing. By the time someone is racing they are well aware and are rightfully assuming risks of loss. I would rather see Th3Franz on track and feeling a bit less uncomfortable than discouraging him.
| RB5 Clone | 05-19-2006 12:25 PM |
That is INDEED the case in the state where I live. Track day insurence per day rates are basically almost what my race car is worth in total.
Still, it's nice to see there are a few enlightened insurance carriers out there.
But that $5000 deductible may may it unworkable for some owners, so the "if you wanna play, be prepared to PAY" rule still applies.
DG
Still, it's nice to see there are a few enlightened insurance carriers out there.
But that $5000 deductible may may it unworkable for some owners, so the "if you wanna play, be prepared to PAY" rule still applies.
DG
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 12:26 PM |
It isn't the carriers - carriers would love to have the flexibility to offer just what you want for any risk you want them to assume.
Talk to your insurance regulator - they are the ones that force the carrier to include liability on your DE insurance. That is why it costs so much.
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]But that $5000 deductible may may it unworkable for some owners, so the "if you wanna play, be prepared to PAY" rule still applies.[/QUOTE]
$5000 as an example on a $25000 car. Yeah if you can't afford to have to cover 20% of your cars value - you probably also really should question whether your finances even are such that you should be going to the track and paying gas, wearables and entry.
Ed.
Talk to your insurance regulator - they are the ones that force the carrier to include liability on your DE insurance. That is why it costs so much.
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]But that $5000 deductible may may it unworkable for some owners, so the "if you wanna play, be prepared to PAY" rule still applies.[/QUOTE]
$5000 as an example on a $25000 car. Yeah if you can't afford to have to cover 20% of your cars value - you probably also really should question whether your finances even are such that you should be going to the track and paying gas, wearables and entry.
Ed.
| RichardM | 05-19-2006 12:28 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]
snip
Not sure exactly where you think it says you couldn't.
and snip
(about life insurance)
That would depend on a lot. I have never seen a group policy that would exclude DE or club competition as an insurable event. And on an individual policy after a certain length of time outstanding it would not be excludable either. Check the policy first then talk to the agent about whether or not underwriting excluded the activity.[/QUOTE]
I got that it says you couldn't get the insurance for a daily driver form the web site where it says this:
Your vehicle may qualify for Driver�s Ed insurance if it is:
A Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Viper or similar performance vehicle
Stored in a locked garage or trailer when not in use
Not driven by anyone with less than 10 years driving experience during a Driver�s Ed event
Currently insured for liability with another company
I will grant all that the STi is a vehicle similar in performance but not price to a Porsche, BMW, etc. But most people can't lock their daily driver in a garage when at work. And I interpret the second sentence to say that unless you have already had 10 years driving experience racing or DE, you can't get the policy.
As to life insurance, you are correct on most group policies. It was individual policies I was referring to. My agent would not cover me when running in performance rallies or races. This is presently being discussed on the SCCA pages.
The original poster is being smart to try and find a policy. You are doing good to help. I wish you both luck.
snip
Not sure exactly where you think it says you couldn't.
and snip
(about life insurance)
That would depend on a lot. I have never seen a group policy that would exclude DE or club competition as an insurable event. And on an individual policy after a certain length of time outstanding it would not be excludable either. Check the policy first then talk to the agent about whether or not underwriting excluded the activity.[/QUOTE]
I got that it says you couldn't get the insurance for a daily driver form the web site where it says this:
Your vehicle may qualify for Driver�s Ed insurance if it is:
A Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Viper or similar performance vehicle
Stored in a locked garage or trailer when not in use
Not driven by anyone with less than 10 years driving experience during a Driver�s Ed event
Currently insured for liability with another company
I will grant all that the STi is a vehicle similar in performance but not price to a Porsche, BMW, etc. But most people can't lock their daily driver in a garage when at work. And I interpret the second sentence to say that unless you have already had 10 years driving experience racing or DE, you can't get the policy.
As to life insurance, you are correct on most group policies. It was individual policies I was referring to. My agent would not cover me when running in performance rallies or races. This is presently being discussed on the SCCA pages.
The original poster is being smart to try and find a policy. You are doing good to help. I wish you both luck.
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 12:32 PM |
You are right - on an individual policy when you are going through more rigorous underwriting and if you raced at that time they are going to include more in the premium or exclude coverage.
But if not included in the original underwriting and you later start racing you will generally be OK. For instance, my parents bought a policy on me when I was a child - I could undertake most any legal activity and be covered, likewise I bought a policy on my son when he was born - any activity he does when he grows up (fighter pilot, stunt man, rally driver) will still be covered.
And the site was misleading in that way - the garaging is more related to collector coverage over all - not meant for the DE. DE coverage only cares about what you are doing at the DE. Your normal insurance covers you everywhere else - they could care less what you do with your car after you leave the track.
And yeah your right, if you are under 26 you are screwed on insurance anyway you look at it, and using your car for more than transportation means you have to assume certain risks on your own because coverage isn't going to be available. Given the error in the DE garaging it would be worth calling and asking if the age was related to DE also.
But if not included in the original underwriting and you later start racing you will generally be OK. For instance, my parents bought a policy on me when I was a child - I could undertake most any legal activity and be covered, likewise I bought a policy on my son when he was born - any activity he does when he grows up (fighter pilot, stunt man, rally driver) will still be covered.
And the site was misleading in that way - the garaging is more related to collector coverage over all - not meant for the DE. DE coverage only cares about what you are doing at the DE. Your normal insurance covers you everywhere else - they could care less what you do with your car after you leave the track.
And yeah your right, if you are under 26 you are screwed on insurance anyway you look at it, and using your car for more than transportation means you have to assume certain risks on your own because coverage isn't going to be available. Given the error in the DE garaging it would be worth calling and asking if the age was related to DE also.
| ChrisDP | 05-19-2006 12:50 PM |
There is a "normal" insurance company that I believe has a specific inclusion for DE events in their policy. PM me if you would like a suggestion as to where you *might* look.
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 01:04 PM |
That would be nice. I know USAA specifically doesn't have a means to underwrite DE coverage, so they exclude it. (Though strangely enough USAA has a relationship with the collectors insurance for their customers.)
| newscooby | 05-19-2006 01:12 PM |
OK, I just called these folks: [url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_policy.htm[/url]
They cover the car to/from the event (if it's trailered), they also cover it in the paddock, and on the track, obviously. And they cover auto-x as well, even though it's a timed event. And this is for an unlimited number of events
The quote the rep gave me was $375 / year for my 2004 s2000, which I valued at $25000. Since I know most of you guys drive STis, I asked about a 2005 STi valued at $30000, his quote was $450 / year. The rep told me the formula is $15 / $1000 of value.
I told him that a number of you were interested, so he gave me his direct number and email address. Obviously, he's a sales guy, so he wants as much business as he can get. Anywho, I'll pass it along, hopefully some of you guys can benefit from this. I know I'm getting a policy.
Contact info:
Orlando (don't know last name)
Phone: (856)-382-3213 (his direct line)
Email: [email][email�protected][/email]
Caveats:
-The vehicle must be titled in one of the states listed on the webpage
-Good driving record with atleast 10 years behind the wheel (IE, older than 26)
Lastly, you guys are funny with all your e-debating. A simple phone call could have answered most of your questions
They cover the car to/from the event (if it's trailered), they also cover it in the paddock, and on the track, obviously. And they cover auto-x as well, even though it's a timed event. And this is for an unlimited number of events
The quote the rep gave me was $375 / year for my 2004 s2000, which I valued at $25000. Since I know most of you guys drive STis, I asked about a 2005 STi valued at $30000, his quote was $450 / year. The rep told me the formula is $15 / $1000 of value.
I told him that a number of you were interested, so he gave me his direct number and email address. Obviously, he's a sales guy, so he wants as much business as he can get. Anywho, I'll pass it along, hopefully some of you guys can benefit from this. I know I'm getting a policy.
Contact info:
Orlando (don't know last name)
Phone: (856)-382-3213 (his direct line)
Email: [email][email�protected][/email]
Caveats:
-The vehicle must be titled in one of the states listed on the webpage
-Good driving record with atleast 10 years behind the wheel (IE, older than 26)
Lastly, you guys are funny with all your e-debating. A simple phone call could have answered most of your questions
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 01:16 PM |
LOL that was the purpose of post #4.
| newscooby | 05-19-2006 01:20 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]LOL that was the purpose of post #4.[/QUOTE]
I know....but people were lamenting that the didn't have a Porsche or Viper, etc. and didn't bother calling to ask if any other cars qualified. So, I figured I'd find out.
In any case, anyone can get this and it seems well worth it. Compared to loosing your car. Although, there is the 20% deductible.....which is still 80% better than 100%
I know....but people were lamenting that the didn't have a Porsche or Viper, etc. and didn't bother calling to ask if any other cars qualified. So, I figured I'd find out.
In any case, anyone can get this and it seems well worth it. Compared to loosing your car. Although, there is the 20% deductible.....which is still 80% better than 100%
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 01:24 PM |
purpose of post #16. ;) But you pulled even more information, not available in NJ so I didn't bother using his time with all the details.
But clearly E30 iX owners think alike anyway! (white 89 sedan, yes all my vehicles except the race car are AWD)
I think this is the best thing for someone in those states doing track days, inexpensive and some good coverage. Even if you can afford to lose the whole car - why would you if you don't have to.
But clearly E30 iX owners think alike anyway! (white 89 sedan, yes all my vehicles except the race car are AWD)
I think this is the best thing for someone in those states doing track days, inexpensive and some good coverage. Even if you can afford to lose the whole car - why would you if you don't have to.
| newscooby | 05-19-2006 01:30 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]purpose of post #16. ;) But you pulled even more information, not available in NJ so I didn't bother using his time with all the details.
But clearly E30 iX owners think alike anyway! (white 89 sedan, yes all my vehicles except the race car are AWD)
I think this is the best thing for someone in those states doing track days, inexpensive and some good coverage. Even if you can afford to lose the whole car - why would you if you don't have to.[/QUOTE]
Cool, another iX owner....these things are soooo rare! Are you on r3vlimited or e30tech? Both are good resources, but the crowd is little green....if you know what I mean :lol:
Yeah, I didn't bother to post the list of states that qualified. But I live in Charlotte, so I got all stoked when NC was on the list. BTW, you can drive the car in any event ANYWHERE, it just has to be registered in one of the qualifying states. He used Watkins Glen as an example ;). Wanna register your race ka at my house :O
But clearly E30 iX owners think alike anyway! (white 89 sedan, yes all my vehicles except the race car are AWD)
I think this is the best thing for someone in those states doing track days, inexpensive and some good coverage. Even if you can afford to lose the whole car - why would you if you don't have to.[/QUOTE]
Cool, another iX owner....these things are soooo rare! Are you on r3vlimited or e30tech? Both are good resources, but the crowd is little green....if you know what I mean :lol:
Yeah, I didn't bother to post the list of states that qualified. But I live in Charlotte, so I got all stoked when NC was on the list. BTW, you can drive the car in any event ANYWHERE, it just has to be registered in one of the qualifying states. He used Watkins Glen as an example ;). Wanna register your race ka at my house :O
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 01:36 PM |
The race KA wouldn't work - I don't DE it, it is in competitive W2W racing (SCCA ITA and NASA SR or PT depending on my mood) and hasn't had a title since sometime before 97.
Luv our iX, just wish it wasn't so cancered - except for the body the rest is premo (pulled the head for work, front shaft splines perfect, repacked bearings, lowered shocks, HD struts), been looking for a coupe shell forever with damaged engine or trans. If I find a new shell, rallycross and ice racing are definitely in its future.
Luv our iX, just wish it wasn't so cancered - except for the body the rest is premo (pulled the head for work, front shaft splines perfect, repacked bearings, lowered shocks, HD struts), been looking for a coupe shell forever with damaged engine or trans. If I find a new shell, rallycross and ice racing are definitely in its future.
| fogdor | 05-19-2006 01:39 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]That would be nice. I know USAA specifically doesn't have a means to underwrite DE coverage, so they exclude it. (Though strangely enough USAA has a relationship with the collectors insurance for their customers.)[/QUOTE]
That's interesting. Did you ever see the following thread? [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508622[/url]
That's interesting. Did you ever see the following thread? [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508622[/url]
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 01:50 PM |
I had not read that one in particular.
I had USAA on and off depending on my driving record many times in the last 20 years.
When my 2003 WRX wagon was stolen and totaled, they asked why I had so many modifications in the car. I told them it was for auto-X and untimed, noncompetition lapping days. They covered the car and the modifications, but asked that I replace my insurance. I talked to the underwriters at length about it and they understood fully with my description the nature of what DEs are (they aren't stupid). However, they also do not have any actuarial information available regarding the risk of the activity and no means to underwrite it (i.e. determine how much to charge for it). When you are insuring a car with a lien it is really not something you can just exclude, so you deny coverage due to the nontraditional (transportation) automotive usage. Because if you total it with most comp & collision coverage at a track day and it has a lien on it, they probably would have to pay out on to the loss payee under most state regulations. The financing party is relying on the collateral and the coverage of the collateral and they need to know that the insurance is there.
I haven't heard yet of a case where a car is paid off and has only liability insurance being dropped - only those with comp & collision.
I fully understand the position P&C companies are in regarding this risk and coverage. What is really needed is a grass roots effort to work on the regulators to make providing the coverage more feasible. Unfortunately unlike all other significant financial regulation (even state chartered banks have fed regulation now), the states regulate insurance so we are split into trying to influence 50 regulators who see us as marginal in thier role of regulating insurance companies and their policies.
I had USAA on and off depending on my driving record many times in the last 20 years.
When my 2003 WRX wagon was stolen and totaled, they asked why I had so many modifications in the car. I told them it was for auto-X and untimed, noncompetition lapping days. They covered the car and the modifications, but asked that I replace my insurance. I talked to the underwriters at length about it and they understood fully with my description the nature of what DEs are (they aren't stupid). However, they also do not have any actuarial information available regarding the risk of the activity and no means to underwrite it (i.e. determine how much to charge for it). When you are insuring a car with a lien it is really not something you can just exclude, so you deny coverage due to the nontraditional (transportation) automotive usage. Because if you total it with most comp & collision coverage at a track day and it has a lien on it, they probably would have to pay out on to the loss payee under most state regulations. The financing party is relying on the collateral and the coverage of the collateral and they need to know that the insurance is there.
I haven't heard yet of a case where a car is paid off and has only liability insurance being dropped - only those with comp & collision.
I fully understand the position P&C companies are in regarding this risk and coverage. What is really needed is a grass roots effort to work on the regulators to make providing the coverage more feasible. Unfortunately unlike all other significant financial regulation (even state chartered banks have fed regulation now), the states regulate insurance so we are split into trying to influence 50 regulators who see us as marginal in thier role of regulating insurance companies and their policies.
| turboICE | 05-19-2006 01:59 PM |
PS - yeah i could have said the mods were for show purposes - but I didn't and don't see lying to them as being the proper route to take on the matter.
Don't ask, don't tell works for me though, however that fits into my morals and ethos.
Don't ask, don't tell works for me though, however that fits into my morals and ethos.
| Th3Franz | 05-19-2006 02:31 PM |
Thanks for the replies guys. Yeah I'm not 26 yet, but I'll call and find out if I can still get that coverage. I have a clean driving record, and I don't drive stupid out on the track. :lol: It's all about having fun and learning in a controlled environment.
| bgsntth | 05-19-2006 02:44 PM |
Quick note: I had American Collectors co-insurance for 3 years on my daily driven WRX to cover the 5-10 trackdays I did annually. Coverage was seamless and my interactions with them were positive. My nameless insurance carrier, made it clear that if they even thought I brought my car to a race-track, I would be dropped. AmColl made it easy, as their coverage kicked-in essentially when my main insurance evaborated.
In over 20 trackdays with my WRX, I never had an incident or even had more than a wheel in the dirt, but it was nice to know that I would not be destitude should the inevitable happen. AmColl even refunded the balance of my payment when I traded my WRX for my current OBXT.
In over 20 trackdays with my WRX, I never had an incident or even had more than a wheel in the dirt, but it was nice to know that I would not be destitude should the inevitable happen. AmColl even refunded the balance of my payment when I traded my WRX for my current OBXT.
| Layman | 09-13-2006 11:07 AM |
[QUOTE=turboICE;13844127]That would be nice. I know USAA specifically doesn't have a means to underwrite DE coverage, so they exclude it. (Though strangely enough USAA has a relationship with the collectors insurance for their customers.)[/QUOTE]
I confirmed this today.
No track days for my R32 as long as I'm only covered by USAA. :(
I confirmed this today.
No track days for my R32 as long as I'm only covered by USAA. :(
| kwh29 | 09-13-2006 05:42 PM |
[QUOTE=RichardM;13843581]As to life insurance, you are correct on most group policies. It was individual policies I was referring to. My agent would not cover me when running in performance rallies or races. This is presently being discussed on the SCCA pages.
The original poster is being smart to try and find a policy. You are doing good to help. I wish you both luck.[/QUOTE]
OT from the original subject, but this has not been my experience. I navigate rally and drive rallycross/autocross. I fully disclosed this when purchasing an individual life policy and a separate disability policy a few months ago. The life carrier did not care and gave me a preferred rating. The disability carrier DID exclude any injuries that happened during racing events. Unfortunately the way the exclusion is worded even injuries that happen during autocross or rallycross will not be covered by my disability insurance. I'm considering buying a supplemental disability policy that only applies when I'm at an event for actual rallies.
On car insurance, I have liability only and if I ball the car up it's gone. My wife and I have discussed this and are both comfortable with the financial risk. I personally think anyone tracking a daily driver needs to accept this or else find something less expensive to take to the track. (Accepting the car as disposable helps on lap times too, BTW! :lol: )
--Kevin H.
The original poster is being smart to try and find a policy. You are doing good to help. I wish you both luck.[/QUOTE]
OT from the original subject, but this has not been my experience. I navigate rally and drive rallycross/autocross. I fully disclosed this when purchasing an individual life policy and a separate disability policy a few months ago. The life carrier did not care and gave me a preferred rating. The disability carrier DID exclude any injuries that happened during racing events. Unfortunately the way the exclusion is worded even injuries that happen during autocross or rallycross will not be covered by my disability insurance. I'm considering buying a supplemental disability policy that only applies when I'm at an event for actual rallies.
On car insurance, I have liability only and if I ball the car up it's gone. My wife and I have discussed this and are both comfortable with the financial risk. I personally think anyone tracking a daily driver needs to accept this or else find something less expensive to take to the track. (Accepting the car as disposable helps on lap times too, BTW! :lol: )
--Kevin H.
| bjorn240 | 09-13-2006 06:18 PM |
[QUOTE=kwh29;15235613]OT from the original subject, but this has not been my experience. I navigate rally and drive rallycross/autocross. I fully disclosed this when purchasing an individual life policy and a separate disability policy a few months ago. The life carrier did not care and gave me a preferred rating. The disability carrier DID exclude any injuries that happened during racing events.[/QUOTE]
I am going through this right now, and what I'm finding is that you can get a life policy pretty easily, so long as you're healthy, but that getting standard disability coverage is extremely difficult.
There are specialty houses who will underwrite you for disability even though you race cars, but they are massively expensive. Figure about $1 in premium per year for every $100 in disability coverage. Yeah, that's right.
If you guys want more info on the life/disability side of things, feel free to PM me.
- Christian
I am going through this right now, and what I'm finding is that you can get a life policy pretty easily, so long as you're healthy, but that getting standard disability coverage is extremely difficult.
There are specialty houses who will underwrite you for disability even though you race cars, but they are massively expensive. Figure about $1 in premium per year for every $100 in disability coverage. Yeah, that's right.
If you guys want more info on the life/disability side of things, feel free to PM me.
- Christian
| chimchimm5 | 09-13-2006 07:58 PM |
This sucks. But I shouldn't be surprised. If my life insurance company knew I was scuba diving they would not be happy.
For awhile I think there was a push by the insurance companies to deny anyone participating in sports that could end up in injury... eg skiing.
For awhile I think there was a push by the insurance companies to deny anyone participating in sports that could end up in injury... eg skiing.
| silver arrow | 09-13-2006 08:22 PM |
I have the best disablilty and life insurance possible. The American tax payer. No matter how I die, you pay for it. :banana: :banana: :banana: Go Navy.
| nater | 09-13-2006 09:58 PM |
[QUOTE=Th3Franz;13845469]Thanks for the replies guys. Yeah I'm not 26 yet, but I'll call and find out if I can still get that coverage. I have a clean driving record, and I don't drive stupid out on the track. :lol: It's all about having fun and learning in a controlled environment.[/QUOTE]
Let us know.. I am under 26 also...
Let us know.. I am under 26 also...
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