| neurotic | 11-12-2002 05:12 PM |
Tracking my daily driver
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I have very little experience in this department so I was hoping someone could give me some info. I know this is probably been asked a million times so sorry to sound like such a n00b. I wasn't sure what to search for exactly so just bare with me here.
I love to autox my car once a month but 4 to 8 40 second runs just isnt enough for me. Drag racing seems kinda boring as well although I admit I have never actually took my car to the drag strip... maybe it would be good for testing a new bolt on but thats about it. I have always wanted to participate in track events but I have no idea what I need to do or who puts on these type of events. I know I lack the skills necessary to compete in real amatuer races however I know the porsche club has throws some fun only type road racing events.
Installing better brakes, harness and harness bar and so on are not an issue but I dont want to have to spend thousands to prep my car either. Would there be a website out there with tips on what is needed? Required?
The closest track to me is in Phoenix, AZ at Firebird Raceway where the Bondurant driving school is located. I really want to do the couple day courses but theres no way I can afford it at the moment.
Thanks for any info you can give me.
:)
I love to autox my car once a month but 4 to 8 40 second runs just isnt enough for me. Drag racing seems kinda boring as well although I admit I have never actually took my car to the drag strip... maybe it would be good for testing a new bolt on but thats about it. I have always wanted to participate in track events but I have no idea what I need to do or who puts on these type of events. I know I lack the skills necessary to compete in real amatuer races however I know the porsche club has throws some fun only type road racing events.
Installing better brakes, harness and harness bar and so on are not an issue but I dont want to have to spend thousands to prep my car either. Would there be a website out there with tips on what is needed? Required?
The closest track to me is in Phoenix, AZ at Firebird Raceway where the Bondurant driving school is located. I really want to do the couple day courses but theres no way I can afford it at the moment.
Thanks for any info you can give me.
:)
| russellh68 | 11-12-2002 05:51 PM |
Check Out NASA HPDE
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neurotic,
NASA has a track event at Firebird on November 22-24. They have HPDE (High Performance Driving Experience) which is kind of like a driving school with your own car. NASA assigns an instructor to you for the day, who rides with you and teaches you the driving line for a couple of 20 minute sessions. Then they usually have you follow the instructor in their own car for a 20 min session and the instructor follows you for the last 20 min session. In between your sessions, the instructor may let you ride with him/her in their car during one of their sessions.
This is great fun and a great way to learn the track and some good driving techinques. Passing is restricted in the beginners groups so that you don't end up with a bent car.
I just did HDPE Group 1 at Sears Point in CA last weekend and it was the most fun that I have had on the track. I have done autocross with SCCA and the Skip Barber corporate driving program at Laguna Seca but neither compare to pushing your own car IMHO.
Check out the NASA website:
[url]http://www.nasaproracing.com/arizona.html[/url]
This is the page for the AZ region.
Russell
:D
NASA has a track event at Firebird on November 22-24. They have HPDE (High Performance Driving Experience) which is kind of like a driving school with your own car. NASA assigns an instructor to you for the day, who rides with you and teaches you the driving line for a couple of 20 minute sessions. Then they usually have you follow the instructor in their own car for a 20 min session and the instructor follows you for the last 20 min session. In between your sessions, the instructor may let you ride with him/her in their car during one of their sessions.
This is great fun and a great way to learn the track and some good driving techinques. Passing is restricted in the beginners groups so that you don't end up with a bent car.
I just did HDPE Group 1 at Sears Point in CA last weekend and it was the most fun that I have had on the track. I have done autocross with SCCA and the Skip Barber corporate driving program at Laguna Seca but neither compare to pushing your own car IMHO.
Check out the NASA website:
[url]http://www.nasaproracing.com/arizona.html[/url]
This is the page for the AZ region.
Russell
:D
| HoRo1 | 11-12-2002 05:51 PM |
I'm not familiar with what clubs you have in Arizona that offer well run and safe track days. You can probably do a web search to get some info. Ask your autoX buddies.
All you'll probably need is a helmet, and a decent open face one would be about $200. Some groups may require gloves -cotton one for $20-30 would suffice on a budget. Harnesses cost about $175 each (5 point) and can be mounted to eye-bolts that can be placed by drilling or by replacing the stock seat belt mounts. A harness bar is not necessary. Stock seats are more than adequate.
Stock tyres are OK, but an upgrade to falken Azenis (I'm fairly sure that they make a 16" that fits the stock rims) will improve grip and they are relatively cheap ($80 each?). Brakes are OK, but a better pad might be necessary if you go out more than a couple of times.
But then, if you autoX, you probably have all the stuff that I mention above.
Find a reputable group - not just a bunch of guys thrashing around a track. They should have decent instructors and rules about overtaking ONLY on straights. Maybe there is an active BMWCCA group in your area. They have excellent if pricey (cheaper than Bondurant though) driving schools. Alfa club in SoCal runs good driving schools, but I don't know if they run in Arizona. The Touring Car Racing Association has events, but they MIGHT be a little too competitive - check with them though.
All you'll probably need is a helmet, and a decent open face one would be about $200. Some groups may require gloves -cotton one for $20-30 would suffice on a budget. Harnesses cost about $175 each (5 point) and can be mounted to eye-bolts that can be placed by drilling or by replacing the stock seat belt mounts. A harness bar is not necessary. Stock seats are more than adequate.
Stock tyres are OK, but an upgrade to falken Azenis (I'm fairly sure that they make a 16" that fits the stock rims) will improve grip and they are relatively cheap ($80 each?). Brakes are OK, but a better pad might be necessary if you go out more than a couple of times.
But then, if you autoX, you probably have all the stuff that I mention above.
Find a reputable group - not just a bunch of guys thrashing around a track. They should have decent instructors and rules about overtaking ONLY on straights. Maybe there is an active BMWCCA group in your area. They have excellent if pricey (cheaper than Bondurant though) driving schools. Alfa club in SoCal runs good driving schools, but I don't know if they run in Arizona. The Touring Car Racing Association has events, but they MIGHT be a little too competitive - check with them though.
| russellh68 | 11-12-2002 06:19 PM |
Forgot to Mention
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I forgot to mention that in the NASA HPDE groups, you don't need a 5 point harness. All you have to have is a Snell 95 approved helmet, long sleeve shirt and pants and stock seatbelts. They do require that you do a tech inspection.
I went with my DS autocross setup - stock everything (including brake pads) with R compound tires and was more than happy with the car.
I went with my DS autocross setup - stock everything (including brake pads) with R compound tires and was more than happy with the car.
| neurotic | 11-12-2002 06:21 PM |
Thanks :)
Yes my car has a couple of small modifications already including 18's wrapped with Kumho 712's. I have a helmet however its not very good, haha I think it was made in the early 80's so I dont entirely trust my head with it.
I'll check out the website and those other leads you mentioned HoRo1
That HPDE sounds great.
Yes my car has a couple of small modifications already including 18's wrapped with Kumho 712's. I have a helmet however its not very good, haha I think it was made in the early 80's so I dont entirely trust my head with it.
I'll check out the website and those other leads you mentioned HoRo1
That HPDE sounds great.
| enduroshark | 11-12-2002 06:34 PM |
Yes, NASA HPDE is the way to go. Check their website. They probably will require you to have someone tech your car for basic safety (no leaks, enough brake pads left, etc). You'll need a helmet. They will provide instructors. You provided the addicted grin.
:D
:D
| sdecker | 11-12-2002 07:41 PM |
Hey Neurotic:
Go for it, just upgrade that helmet to a more modern one. I have been providing the addicted grin all year long. Absolutely outstanding and a great way to improve your mad drivin' skillz...:D
Basically, be prepared to use up some tires and especially some brake pads since you will be going much faster than a typical auto-x. If you're not an uber-mechanic, have a local place check all the stuff for you. NASA or the BMWCCA will provide an inspection checklist. Do yourself a favor and follow that list.
You would be surprised. The wear and tear on your daily driver seems to be less than an equivalent number of days of autocross.
It's awesome! You'll suck at first but then your gains seem so much better...I've done like 10-12 events this summer. I'm hooked.
If the BMWCCA chapter in your region runs Driver Education events, hook up with them. They are very knowledgeable, safe, and fun; they have none of the snobbery I expected. They also learn how eat crow when they look at your license plate as you pass M3's. :lol:
Good luck, ask q's if you got em. I'm a n00b too but maybe that's what you are looking for.
Scott
Go for it, just upgrade that helmet to a more modern one. I have been providing the addicted grin all year long. Absolutely outstanding and a great way to improve your mad drivin' skillz...:D
Basically, be prepared to use up some tires and especially some brake pads since you will be going much faster than a typical auto-x. If you're not an uber-mechanic, have a local place check all the stuff for you. NASA or the BMWCCA will provide an inspection checklist. Do yourself a favor and follow that list.
You would be surprised. The wear and tear on your daily driver seems to be less than an equivalent number of days of autocross.
It's awesome! You'll suck at first but then your gains seem so much better...I've done like 10-12 events this summer. I'm hooked.
If the BMWCCA chapter in your region runs Driver Education events, hook up with them. They are very knowledgeable, safe, and fun; they have none of the snobbery I expected. They also learn how eat crow when they look at your license plate as you pass M3's. :lol:
Good luck, ask q's if you got em. I'm a n00b too but maybe that's what you are looking for.
Scott
| ellisnc | 11-12-2002 07:42 PM |
I have one piece of advice... don't track your daily driver you'll regret it. Get some POS car as your daily driver or backup car then track whichever you want. Auto-x is one thing which I don't know if I'd even do, but barrelling around a racetrack is something entirely different.
JMHO
JMHO
| neurotic | 11-12-2002 09:36 PM |
Well to each his own ellisnc. Thanks for the advice but what makes you so against it? Just curious. Not even autox? It seems a very safe place to push your car and learn what it can do. I have yet to see anything bad happen to a driver or a car that was properly setup for it.
The novice group I would be running in wouldn't even be allowed to pass in the straights. If I decided to do something stupid it would be my own fault :lol:
I'd like to have 2 cars but theres no way im drivin around town in a beater. I bought my wrx so I didn't have to do that anymore. I can't race the beater.. which leaves me with no option but to just not try it at all.
I am comfortable changing my own pads and other small work to the car, I will probably take it in and have it checked to be sure since my 30k checkup is coming soon anyway. It's only 30 dollars to join for a year plus the 130 to race in HPDE. Sweet. I was expecting alot more for the mentor and help.
Now I just need to get the cojones to actually go out and do it! haha wish me luck :D
The novice group I would be running in wouldn't even be allowed to pass in the straights. If I decided to do something stupid it would be my own fault :lol:
I'd like to have 2 cars but theres no way im drivin around town in a beater. I bought my wrx so I didn't have to do that anymore. I can't race the beater.. which leaves me with no option but to just not try it at all.
I am comfortable changing my own pads and other small work to the car, I will probably take it in and have it checked to be sure since my 30k checkup is coming soon anyway. It's only 30 dollars to join for a year plus the 130 to race in HPDE. Sweet. I was expecting alot more for the mentor and help.
Now I just need to get the cojones to actually go out and do it! haha wish me luck :D
| elgorey | 11-12-2002 10:06 PM |
nothing will [i]probably[/i] happen to your car, but there is a reasonable risk that you may put your car into a wall, someone else may put your car into a wall, something on the track surface will put your car into a wall, or something will break and put your car into a wall.
Just make sure you know this going into it, I have seen many many many street cars completely totalled at school type events, including an amazing FD RX-7, S2000, and M3.
Most likely your insurance wouldnt cover it, so are you prepared to walk away from your wrx as a total loss? If you are ready to take that risk then by all means go to the track. I do :)
Just make sure you know this going into it, I have seen many many many street cars completely totalled at school type events, including an amazing FD RX-7, S2000, and M3.
Most likely your insurance wouldnt cover it, so are you prepared to walk away from your wrx as a total loss? If you are ready to take that risk then by all means go to the track. I do :)
| elgorey | 11-12-2002 10:10 PM |
Re: Tracking my daily driver
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by neurotic [/i]
[B]Installing better brakes, harness and harness bar and so on are not an issue [/B][/QUOTE]
one more thing real quick, I hope you mean [b]roll[/b] bar not harness bar. Harnesses are extremely dangerous without rollover protection, I believe most organizations do not allow harnesses without rollover protection now, and even those that do, most instructors will not get into a car with harnesses but no rollover protection.
[B]Installing better brakes, harness and harness bar and so on are not an issue [/B][/QUOTE]
one more thing real quick, I hope you mean [b]roll[/b] bar not harness bar. Harnesses are extremely dangerous without rollover protection, I believe most organizations do not allow harnesses without rollover protection now, and even those that do, most instructors will not get into a car with harnesses but no rollover protection.
| IXLR8 | 11-12-2002 10:22 PM |
Re: Re: Tracking my daily driver
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elgorey [/i]
[B]Harnesses are extremely dangerous without rollover protection, I believe most organizations do not allow harnesses without rollover protection now, and even those that do, most instructors will not get into a car with harnesses but no rollover protection. [/B][/QUOTE]
elgorey's got it exactly right... I occassionaly teach for NASA-VA and not many/any of the instructors I know will ride w/ a harness and w/o a roll bar/cage..
Also, really checkout the first link posted by Russell and look at the HPDE pages... they're a pretty good primer, or at least a place to start, for more indepth info about what to expect from a track day.
PS. Don't worry about making any mods to your ride your first few times out (unless you just can't help yourself). Without offense, you are the weakest part of the package... spend your time and money working on improving your skills... it's the best mod you can make and in almost every case, the most bang for the buck.
[B]Harnesses are extremely dangerous without rollover protection, I believe most organizations do not allow harnesses without rollover protection now, and even those that do, most instructors will not get into a car with harnesses but no rollover protection. [/B][/QUOTE]
elgorey's got it exactly right... I occassionaly teach for NASA-VA and not many/any of the instructors I know will ride w/ a harness and w/o a roll bar/cage..
Also, really checkout the first link posted by Russell and look at the HPDE pages... they're a pretty good primer, or at least a place to start, for more indepth info about what to expect from a track day.
PS. Don't worry about making any mods to your ride your first few times out (unless you just can't help yourself). Without offense, you are the weakest part of the package... spend your time and money working on improving your skills... it's the best mod you can make and in almost every case, the most bang for the buck.
| neurotic | 11-12-2002 10:26 PM |
elgorey: yeah I heard that a 5 point harness and no roll cage is a bad thing if the car were to end up upside down. ouch.
from what I read on the nasa web site and searching i-club some insurance will in fact cover certain driving events like autox, autox school and some learning experience on the track. "some" so I am going to contact my insurance provider and find out some more info
Life is full of risks...
from what I read on the nasa web site and searching i-club some insurance will in fact cover certain driving events like autox, autox school and some learning experience on the track. "some" so I am going to contact my insurance provider and find out some more info
Life is full of risks...
| jamz | 11-13-2002 07:31 AM |
You can track your completely stock car, and it should be stock the first time or two. The RE-92s are fine- you will actually learn more with worse tires, I think, becasue you can reach their limits more easily than with super-sticky tires.
All I would do is read up on their classification rules (My group requires rollover protection and fireproof clothing if you go beyond a certain level of engine modification).
Bleed the brakes the day before, and put in good high temperature fluid, change the oil, and go over it once to make sure everything is nice and tight and ready to get abused, and you are all set.
All I would do is read up on their classification rules (My group requires rollover protection and fireproof clothing if you go beyond a certain level of engine modification).
Bleed the brakes the day before, and put in good high temperature fluid, change the oil, and go over it once to make sure everything is nice and tight and ready to get abused, and you are all set.
| gdog | 11-13-2002 07:50 PM |
Zach,
[URL=http://www.azsportsracing.org]ASRA[/URL] has an event Thanksgiving weekend, but it looks like they've curtailed the novice driving. They run at PIR, which is a blast to drive.
[URL=http://www.proautosports.com/ARIZONA.html]Pro Auto Sports[/URL] (a NASA splinter) runs at firebird the same weekend.
I see that NASA is running at PIR in February; you'd enjoy that.
Of course if you run the nasa event next weekend, you'll miss the 4 to 8 59 second runs at SIR. I hear that the course will be a mirror of the last one (ie, starting on the left side, not reversed).
geren
[URL=http://www.azsportsracing.org]ASRA[/URL] has an event Thanksgiving weekend, but it looks like they've curtailed the novice driving. They run at PIR, which is a blast to drive.
[URL=http://www.proautosports.com/ARIZONA.html]Pro Auto Sports[/URL] (a NASA splinter) runs at firebird the same weekend.
I see that NASA is running at PIR in February; you'd enjoy that.
Of course if you run the nasa event next weekend, you'll miss the 4 to 8 59 second runs at SIR. I hear that the course will be a mirror of the last one (ie, starting on the left side, not reversed).
geren
| ellisnc | 11-13-2002 08:54 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elgorey [/i]
[B]nothing will [i]probably[/i] happen to your car, but there is a reasonable risk that you may put your car into a wall, someone else may put your car into a wall, something on the track surface will put your car into a wall, or something will break and put your car into a wall.
Just make sure you know this going into it, I have seen many many many street cars completely totalled at school type events, including an amazing FD RX-7, S2000, and M3.
Most likely your insurance wouldnt cover it, so are you prepared to walk away from your wrx as a total loss? If you are ready to take that risk then by all means go to the track. I do :) [/B][/QUOTE]
exactly...
take the chance if you want, just my piece of advice
going without insurance is another story all together, but I just don't like the idea of beating on a car I rely on for day to day transportation anymore.
[B]nothing will [i]probably[/i] happen to your car, but there is a reasonable risk that you may put your car into a wall, someone else may put your car into a wall, something on the track surface will put your car into a wall, or something will break and put your car into a wall.
Just make sure you know this going into it, I have seen many many many street cars completely totalled at school type events, including an amazing FD RX-7, S2000, and M3.
Most likely your insurance wouldnt cover it, so are you prepared to walk away from your wrx as a total loss? If you are ready to take that risk then by all means go to the track. I do :) [/B][/QUOTE]
exactly...
take the chance if you want, just my piece of advice
going without insurance is another story all together, but I just don't like the idea of beating on a car I rely on for day to day transportation anymore.
| spidey02wrx | 11-14-2002 09:00 AM |
do it!
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I just completed a HPDE at Lime Rock Park this past monday and it was an absolute blast. The WRX is a very capable car with a tire upgrade...and I would second the motion to get azenis on the stock 16's (plus I won't even drive to work on the RE-92s). You don't want to damage your 18's and the azenis provide a tremendous amount of grip at a very low price, they are as good as the hype. A harness is nice, but not necessary... you will get tossed around a bit. There are a lot of people that run them without rollover protection, it's really up to you. A POS might be nice to have, but honestly the WRX can take a few track days every now and then - don't baby this car it responds very well to a beating. It never got hot and ran all day happily dancing around the redline. I put Hawk HP+ pads in the front and SS lines as well with some upgraded brake fluid. No fade, and the pads provide quite enough stopping power for that track. Remember you control your pace out there, if you feel uncomfortable, you can always shut it down for the day...I'm betting you won't want to. At the end of the day I was one of the faster cars in my group and I can't wait to attend the next one, nothing like getting the point-by from a type-r.
PM or email me if you want a long-winded account of the day, it was great fun. Also check out the tread in the Tri-State Area about the day titled "Team IAC motorsport weekend aftermath" its a good read.
mark
PM or email me if you want a long-winded account of the day, it was great fun. Also check out the tread in the Tri-State Area about the day titled "Team IAC motorsport weekend aftermath" its a good read.
mark
| NeedaScooby | 11-14-2002 12:34 PM |
I was there as well in my MINI Cooper S with the only mod being a cat-back exhaust I am testing. The car was bone stock otherwise and the only issue I ran into was some slight brake fade toward the end of each session. Next upgrade is for brakes. However, Like Spidey said, run your own pace and you should be fine--you are, as stated above, the weakest link in the whole equation--ask your instructor to take your car if you dont belive me--LOL--
You will have one of the best times in your car EVER.
MD.
You will have one of the best times in your car EVER.
MD.
| HoRo1 | 11-14-2002 12:53 PM |
No matter how easy you take it and how cautious you are, youcan always get involved in someone else's mistake. Every second on the track is a second of total concentration on your own driving, your car, and the cars of those around you. You must anticipate or try to anticipate their errors. That's why driving on the track in a racing format (either against others or the clock) is so much more demanding than autoXing on your own.
I track my own car. I've been off at high and low speeds. I've had guys spin right in front of me. I haven't hit anything yet, partly through skill and partly through luck.
Be cautious, pick good events to drive at and concentrate. With luck, you'll be incident free.
I track my own car. I've been off at high and low speeds. I've had guys spin right in front of me. I haven't hit anything yet, partly through skill and partly through luck.
Be cautious, pick good events to drive at and concentrate. With luck, you'll be incident free.
| rkkwan | 11-14-2002 03:33 PM |
When I first started open-tracking, my "excuse" of taking my daily driver is that I can learn things about my car and improve my driving - which can be useful on the street.
But, of course, now I'm more interested in getting through the corners faster and getting better lap times. :D
-Ray
But, of course, now I'm more interested in getting through the corners faster and getting better lap times. :D
-Ray
| Boxer6 | 11-14-2002 04:36 PM |
This is the guide line that I got from PCA site.
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Slower, less experienced driver is Novice Class N, progressing to C, B2, to B1 to A, with A Class the most experienced and faster.
1. HELMET, SNELL SA 95 or later required for all Track events including Blackhawk, Road America, and GingerMan. (Snell SA sticker must be attached inside)
1A. HELMET, SNELL SA or M 90 or later required for all Autocross events (Snell SA or M sticker must be attached inside).
2. APPAREL - Full-length pants, long sleeved cotton shirts, cotton socks and full coverage shoes are mandatory. Highly recommended, but not mandatory are drivers' suits, driving gloves and shoes all made of Nomex or similar fire-resistant materials. Arm restraints required for All Open Cars.
3. SEAT BELTS - Original factory installed belts for N,C&B2 Class. Required for all other Classes (and all B Class at Road America); Stock Seat =6- point, �H� Harnesses without Harness Bar & no �H� with Bar or Race Seat = 5/6-Point. All securely anchored, Metal-to-metal, with large diameter washers on both sides of floor mounting holes. Tunnel side belt mounting only on factory seats. Harness and Seats must be equipped the �same� for Driver and Passenger side (Instructor).
4. FIRE EXTINGUISHER - Recommended but not required. Securely anchored metal-to-metal in reach of driver. BC or ABC rated and fully charged. AFFF or Halon recommended.
5. ROLL PROTECTION � Roll Bar, Cage or Extender using �broomstick rule� Required for all A Class. The same Roll Protection is highly recommended although not required for other Classes. Any open car (no roof) must run A Class rules. Cabs must have roof in up position and sunroofs must be closed.
6. PEDALS - Free return and in good operating condition. Firm brake pedal.
7. LOOSE OBJECTS - Remove all loose items from trunk and interior, including glove compartment, door pockets, console, mats, etc. Glove box locked. Spare secured or removed (spare adds to structure to certain Porsches).
8. AIR BAG EQUIPPED CARS � No Obstructions in front of Air Bag (s).
9. WINDSHIELD - No major cracks and functional wipers with good blades.
10. MIRRORS - At least one side (two highly recommended) and one securely mounted rear view mirror.
11. GAS CAP - Gasket intact and cap tightened.
12. RUST - No rust or damage to suspension or chassis parts that affect the integrity of the chassis or brakes.
13. FRONT SUSPENSION - No excessive looseness in steering or suspension. Lower trailing arm to radius tight; Axle and shock bolt tight. Ball joints in good condition. Tie rods secure. Axle boots and oil seals in good condition. Warning: 944/968 MUST Check Ball Joint & Control Arms for cracks and binding caused by excessive lowering, larger sway bars and track usage.
14. REAR SUSPENSION - No excessive looseness. Check half shaft bolts and shock bolts. 914's check fuel pump and lines. No positive camber on any car.
15. WHEEL BEARINGS - Correct adjustment, check for play and proper lubrication, no damaged or burnt bearings.
16. BRAKES - Sufficient brake linings or pads. No rubbing, cuts or abrasions in brake lines. Check rotor condition. Brake pad thickness must be checked periodically for 2mm minimum thickness throughout the high-speed events. Make sure you start with ample brake pad material and/or bring an extra set of pads. It is recommended you start with fresh Competition pads properly bedded in.
17. WHEELS - No cracks. No bends. All lug nuts must have 94 - 96 lbs. torque. Valve stem must have airtight cap. Hubcaps and Center Caps must be removed.
18. TIRES - In Good condition. No cracks or bulges. ZR or better required (HR for Autocross only). Minimum tread depth of 3/32" on contact patch area (race tires or shaved performance tires must have as least 1/16� tread ware marker depth and No Cord Showing). Seek an experienced driver with like car/tires for hot/cold tire pressure.
19. BRAKE FLUID - Level up, must show in reservoir. All cars must have their brake systems flushed with DOT 4 specification or better brake fluid 90 days or less preceding the high-speed event. If another high-speed event is run less than 90 days prior to this event, then the fluid must be flushed again before running.
20. BATTERY (IES) - Securely fastened and in good condition. No acid leaks or corrosion. Check fuel lines under battery trays on 914's. The Positive (+) Terminal on All batteries must be covered by cap or tape.
21. ENGINE - Check for odd sounds and satisfactory exhaust (remember 108db limit at Road America)
22. DRIVE BELTS - Tight and in good condition.
23. LEAKS - No exhaust leaks and leaks of any fluid - oil, gas, brake, or coolant.
24. THROTTLE RETURN - Freely operating and good springs. Check both throttle return springs on CIS cars.
25. BRAKE LIGHTS � All bulbs on both sides and center brake light (if so equipped) must be functional.
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Slower, less experienced driver is Novice Class N, progressing to C, B2, to B1 to A, with A Class the most experienced and faster.
1. HELMET, SNELL SA 95 or later required for all Track events including Blackhawk, Road America, and GingerMan. (Snell SA sticker must be attached inside)
1A. HELMET, SNELL SA or M 90 or later required for all Autocross events (Snell SA or M sticker must be attached inside).
2. APPAREL - Full-length pants, long sleeved cotton shirts, cotton socks and full coverage shoes are mandatory. Highly recommended, but not mandatory are drivers' suits, driving gloves and shoes all made of Nomex or similar fire-resistant materials. Arm restraints required for All Open Cars.
3. SEAT BELTS - Original factory installed belts for N,C&B2 Class. Required for all other Classes (and all B Class at Road America); Stock Seat =6- point, �H� Harnesses without Harness Bar & no �H� with Bar or Race Seat = 5/6-Point. All securely anchored, Metal-to-metal, with large diameter washers on both sides of floor mounting holes. Tunnel side belt mounting only on factory seats. Harness and Seats must be equipped the �same� for Driver and Passenger side (Instructor).
4. FIRE EXTINGUISHER - Recommended but not required. Securely anchored metal-to-metal in reach of driver. BC or ABC rated and fully charged. AFFF or Halon recommended.
5. ROLL PROTECTION � Roll Bar, Cage or Extender using �broomstick rule� Required for all A Class. The same Roll Protection is highly recommended although not required for other Classes. Any open car (no roof) must run A Class rules. Cabs must have roof in up position and sunroofs must be closed.
6. PEDALS - Free return and in good operating condition. Firm brake pedal.
7. LOOSE OBJECTS - Remove all loose items from trunk and interior, including glove compartment, door pockets, console, mats, etc. Glove box locked. Spare secured or removed (spare adds to structure to certain Porsches).
8. AIR BAG EQUIPPED CARS � No Obstructions in front of Air Bag (s).
9. WINDSHIELD - No major cracks and functional wipers with good blades.
10. MIRRORS - At least one side (two highly recommended) and one securely mounted rear view mirror.
11. GAS CAP - Gasket intact and cap tightened.
12. RUST - No rust or damage to suspension or chassis parts that affect the integrity of the chassis or brakes.
13. FRONT SUSPENSION - No excessive looseness in steering or suspension. Lower trailing arm to radius tight; Axle and shock bolt tight. Ball joints in good condition. Tie rods secure. Axle boots and oil seals in good condition. Warning: 944/968 MUST Check Ball Joint & Control Arms for cracks and binding caused by excessive lowering, larger sway bars and track usage.
14. REAR SUSPENSION - No excessive looseness. Check half shaft bolts and shock bolts. 914's check fuel pump and lines. No positive camber on any car.
15. WHEEL BEARINGS - Correct adjustment, check for play and proper lubrication, no damaged or burnt bearings.
16. BRAKES - Sufficient brake linings or pads. No rubbing, cuts or abrasions in brake lines. Check rotor condition. Brake pad thickness must be checked periodically for 2mm minimum thickness throughout the high-speed events. Make sure you start with ample brake pad material and/or bring an extra set of pads. It is recommended you start with fresh Competition pads properly bedded in.
17. WHEELS - No cracks. No bends. All lug nuts must have 94 - 96 lbs. torque. Valve stem must have airtight cap. Hubcaps and Center Caps must be removed.
18. TIRES - In Good condition. No cracks or bulges. ZR or better required (HR for Autocross only). Minimum tread depth of 3/32" on contact patch area (race tires or shaved performance tires must have as least 1/16� tread ware marker depth and No Cord Showing). Seek an experienced driver with like car/tires for hot/cold tire pressure.
19. BRAKE FLUID - Level up, must show in reservoir. All cars must have their brake systems flushed with DOT 4 specification or better brake fluid 90 days or less preceding the high-speed event. If another high-speed event is run less than 90 days prior to this event, then the fluid must be flushed again before running.
20. BATTERY (IES) - Securely fastened and in good condition. No acid leaks or corrosion. Check fuel lines under battery trays on 914's. The Positive (+) Terminal on All batteries must be covered by cap or tape.
21. ENGINE - Check for odd sounds and satisfactory exhaust (remember 108db limit at Road America)
22. DRIVE BELTS - Tight and in good condition.
23. LEAKS - No exhaust leaks and leaks of any fluid - oil, gas, brake, or coolant.
24. THROTTLE RETURN - Freely operating and good springs. Check both throttle return springs on CIS cars.
25. BRAKE LIGHTS � All bulbs on both sides and center brake light (if so equipped) must be functional.
| fastwrx | 11-23-2002 01:32 PM |
Doing it!
�
�
Hi all,
It's been a LONG time since I've logged on.
I've been out with the local Porsche Club for "Driver's Ed" track events twice. Once in August at Moroso (W. Palm Beach, FL) and once this month at Homestead (FL). I should mention that, about a year and a half ago, I went through Skip Barber's 3-day Racing School at Sebring.
Tracking the WRX is an absolute BLAST! Furthermore, it's SAFER than driving on I-95 here in S. Florida... NO DOUBT.
My first time out was with my WRX - stock... including the original stock Bridgestone RE-92's. Oh... I did change the brake fluid to a high performance fluid (higher boiling point). I did quite well, despite the Rex sliding around a bit. I found I could control the drifting with gentle modulation of the throttle. I surprised a LOT of the other drivers who had MUCH more expensive cars. The Sube Rex got a lot of attention from those who knew what it was. And, it got a lot of attention from those who were wondering, "what the hell is that thing???" :D
For the Homestead event a couple of weeks ago, I had a few things changed on the car. Hawk HP+ brake pads on the front. And, Toyo Proxes RA-1 rubber on the wheels. What a difference!!! WOW! I did REALLY well on the track. I passed a BUNCH of Porsche 911s! I even passed a Corvette ZO6! I would have LOVED to hear what they said as I went past them! But, truth be told... we know those cars are faster than our beloved Sube Rex's. However, this illustrates how the DRIVER is the most important piece of equipment. The "LINE" is the KEY to fast laps. The right LINE through the turn equals faster exit speeds. And that's where I was eating these guys up. The fact that I was driving a Subaru just made it more fun and put a grin on my face.
My next event will be in January at Moroso. I just ordered some 17" track wheels. This way I can save the really good (and expensive) rubber for the track and run something else on my stock Sube wheels. I can't wait!!
So... any advice for other mods? Stiffer suspension to reduce body roll? How? Sway bars? Shocks? Coil overs? What else? Bear in mind this IS my daily driver, too. I can't afford 2 cars, YET. And, frankly, I enjoy driving the same car both on the track and the street. :) I've been checking out the goodies at Cobb Tuning's website. Some nice stuff. But funds are limited, so I'll have to do it a bit at a time. And, I don't want to waste money on things that won't help.
That's my 2 cents, and thanks for any input!
Mike
It's been a LONG time since I've logged on.
I've been out with the local Porsche Club for "Driver's Ed" track events twice. Once in August at Moroso (W. Palm Beach, FL) and once this month at Homestead (FL). I should mention that, about a year and a half ago, I went through Skip Barber's 3-day Racing School at Sebring.
Tracking the WRX is an absolute BLAST! Furthermore, it's SAFER than driving on I-95 here in S. Florida... NO DOUBT.
My first time out was with my WRX - stock... including the original stock Bridgestone RE-92's. Oh... I did change the brake fluid to a high performance fluid (higher boiling point). I did quite well, despite the Rex sliding around a bit. I found I could control the drifting with gentle modulation of the throttle. I surprised a LOT of the other drivers who had MUCH more expensive cars. The Sube Rex got a lot of attention from those who knew what it was. And, it got a lot of attention from those who were wondering, "what the hell is that thing???" :D
For the Homestead event a couple of weeks ago, I had a few things changed on the car. Hawk HP+ brake pads on the front. And, Toyo Proxes RA-1 rubber on the wheels. What a difference!!! WOW! I did REALLY well on the track. I passed a BUNCH of Porsche 911s! I even passed a Corvette ZO6! I would have LOVED to hear what they said as I went past them! But, truth be told... we know those cars are faster than our beloved Sube Rex's. However, this illustrates how the DRIVER is the most important piece of equipment. The "LINE" is the KEY to fast laps. The right LINE through the turn equals faster exit speeds. And that's where I was eating these guys up. The fact that I was driving a Subaru just made it more fun and put a grin on my face.
My next event will be in January at Moroso. I just ordered some 17" track wheels. This way I can save the really good (and expensive) rubber for the track and run something else on my stock Sube wheels. I can't wait!!
So... any advice for other mods? Stiffer suspension to reduce body roll? How? Sway bars? Shocks? Coil overs? What else? Bear in mind this IS my daily driver, too. I can't afford 2 cars, YET. And, frankly, I enjoy driving the same car both on the track and the street. :) I've been checking out the goodies at Cobb Tuning's website. Some nice stuff. But funds are limited, so I'll have to do it a bit at a time. And, I don't want to waste money on things that won't help.
That's my 2 cents, and thanks for any input!
Mike
| sdecker | 11-23-2002 01:49 PM |
Re: Doing it!
�
�
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by fastwrx [/i]
[B]So... any advice for other mods? Stiffer suspension to reduce body roll? How? Sway bars? Shocks? Coil overs? What else? Bear in mind this IS my daily driver, too. I can't afford 2 cars, YET. And, frankly, I enjoy driving the same car both on the track and the street. :) I've been checking out the goodies at Cobb Tuning's website. Some nice stuff. But funds are limited, so I'll have to do it a bit at a time. And, I don't want to waste money on things that won't help.
That's my 2 cents, and thanks for any input!
Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
I can tell you what works for me: a decent set of springs on the stock struts (I use Prodrive), and a thicker RSB and heavy duty mounts (I use Whiteline for both). Obviously I prefer my setup but there are many many others to choose from. I'm not willing to drop 1500+ on compromise coilovers, until someone comes out with something that addresses the major issues.
I tracked my car like 10 times this year on this setup, and I really think it gives excellent bang for the buck, especially when combined with better brake pads/fluid and a set of cheap R compounds.
I have zero issues on the street. No noise, no clunks, no squeaks, nothing but suspension goodness. All this for the low low price of about 425-450 bucks. Again, this is just my opinion.
For more stuff, look here [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=276898[/url]
I have ridden in a friend's full-on suspended WRX sedan. He has full bars, Tein Flex w/EFDC, etc. It's a nice ride, but was it worth 2K more? Not to me. Again, your call. You could always sell the earlier stuff to get $$$ back to go with coilovers if you're not happy.
Good luck,
Scott
[B]So... any advice for other mods? Stiffer suspension to reduce body roll? How? Sway bars? Shocks? Coil overs? What else? Bear in mind this IS my daily driver, too. I can't afford 2 cars, YET. And, frankly, I enjoy driving the same car both on the track and the street. :) I've been checking out the goodies at Cobb Tuning's website. Some nice stuff. But funds are limited, so I'll have to do it a bit at a time. And, I don't want to waste money on things that won't help.
That's my 2 cents, and thanks for any input!
Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
I can tell you what works for me: a decent set of springs on the stock struts (I use Prodrive), and a thicker RSB and heavy duty mounts (I use Whiteline for both). Obviously I prefer my setup but there are many many others to choose from. I'm not willing to drop 1500+ on compromise coilovers, until someone comes out with something that addresses the major issues.
I tracked my car like 10 times this year on this setup, and I really think it gives excellent bang for the buck, especially when combined with better brake pads/fluid and a set of cheap R compounds.
I have zero issues on the street. No noise, no clunks, no squeaks, nothing but suspension goodness. All this for the low low price of about 425-450 bucks. Again, this is just my opinion.
For more stuff, look here [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=276898[/url]
I have ridden in a friend's full-on suspended WRX sedan. He has full bars, Tein Flex w/EFDC, etc. It's a nice ride, but was it worth 2K more? Not to me. Again, your call. You could always sell the earlier stuff to get $$$ back to go with coilovers if you're not happy.
Good luck,
Scott
| IXLR8 | 11-23-2002 03:22 PM |
Re: Doing it!
�
�
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by fastwrx [/i]
[B] Toyo Proxes RA-1 rubber on the wheels. What a difference!!! WOW!
I just ordered some 17" track wheels. This way I can save the really good (and expensive) rubber for the track and run something else on my stock Sube wheels. [/B][/QUOTE]
Aren't the RA1's great? There are lots (well, a few) other R compounds that test out "faster" (like the Hoosiers) but overall I love the Toyos for their ability to handle just about anything you can throw at them and still be predictable at the limit... (They are also quite nice in the wet, at full depth.)
But why go to 17 inch track wheels when you, presumably already have the Toyo's on the stock rims? If that's not the case, I'd recommend just using the stock rims with some 225-50-16 RA1's as your track set, and maybe add the next size larger rear bar (mentioned by sdecker) as a "place" you can be very happy with on the track for a long time before adding anything else... Spend the rest of your money on track time!
[B] Toyo Proxes RA-1 rubber on the wheels. What a difference!!! WOW!
I just ordered some 17" track wheels. This way I can save the really good (and expensive) rubber for the track and run something else on my stock Sube wheels. [/B][/QUOTE]
Aren't the RA1's great? There are lots (well, a few) other R compounds that test out "faster" (like the Hoosiers) but overall I love the Toyos for their ability to handle just about anything you can throw at them and still be predictable at the limit... (They are also quite nice in the wet, at full depth.)
But why go to 17 inch track wheels when you, presumably already have the Toyo's on the stock rims? If that's not the case, I'd recommend just using the stock rims with some 225-50-16 RA1's as your track set, and maybe add the next size larger rear bar (mentioned by sdecker) as a "place" you can be very happy with on the track for a long time before adding anything else... Spend the rest of your money on track time!
| fastwrx | 11-23-2002 04:47 PM |
Hi IXLR8,
Yes, the current RA1's are on the stock rims. I'm driving them on the street, too. I went with the 17" rims for track use because my "tire guy / race mechanic" can get them for me at $125 each. This particular rim came in either 15" or 17". So, that was a no-brainer. They weigh about 16 lbs. Pretty light... especially at that price. I forget what brand they are... made in England. When I wear out my RA1s, I'll go to something a little more civilized yet high performace... 'cause now I'm spoiled! :)
So, you're saying replace the rear bar, but not the front one?
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty new at this stuff. BTW, you're not the first to advise me to spend my money on track time! :) Good advice! Ain't no such thing as too much track time!
Mike
Yes, the current RA1's are on the stock rims. I'm driving them on the street, too. I went with the 17" rims for track use because my "tire guy / race mechanic" can get them for me at $125 each. This particular rim came in either 15" or 17". So, that was a no-brainer. They weigh about 16 lbs. Pretty light... especially at that price. I forget what brand they are... made in England. When I wear out my RA1s, I'll go to something a little more civilized yet high performace... 'cause now I'm spoiled! :)
So, you're saying replace the rear bar, but not the front one?
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty new at this stuff. BTW, you're not the first to advise me to spend my money on track time! :) Good advice! Ain't no such thing as too much track time!
Mike
| sdecker | 11-23-2002 05:15 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by fastwrx [/i]
[B]So, you're saying replace the rear bar, but not the front one?
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty new at this stuff. BTW, you're not the first to advise me to spend my money on track time! :) Good advice! Ain't no such thing as too much track time!
Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey Fastwrx,
The WRX sedan is biased towards understeer from the factory, pretty heavily in fact. Putting on a heavier RSB and replacing the high-compliance factory endlinks can help make the car more neutral and even bias towards oversteer. It's also convenient that the RSB/endlink combo is relatively inexpensive.
I'd suggest a blade-type adjustable RSB. They come in several sizes and from many manufacturers (Cusco, Whiteline, and Hotchkiss all come to mind). The basic RSB's are generally 22mm in diameter, with adjustable mounting points to give you a couple of more options. When you see a sway bar shown as 20-22-24mm, the middle number is the actual diameter. The lower and higher numbers can be obtained by using the other mounting holes. Generically speaking, the higher effective diameter of the rear bar, the more your car will be biased away from understeer.
I didn't see the logic in buying a 20-22-24 bar since the factory bar is 20 mm already. I'm cheap, so I went with the Whiteline 'race-only' 24mm bar, which has effective diameters of 22-24-26 mm.
I would also suggest the heavy duty endlinks. Some people have said that the Whiteline endlinks have broken on them and instead go with the Kartboy endlinks. The Kartboy stuff is beautiful but costly. Again, I'm cheap, so I went with the Whiteline. I have tracked very hard on these things all summer and so far have no issues.
Springs: you need to determine what you want out of a spring. I wanted increased body roll resistance and a small bit of lowering, without some stupid hack on my factory struts. The Prodrives were designed for use on the factory struts and otherwise meet my goals. These weren't cheap, like 280 bucks, but are a very good deal for me as opposed to coilovers.
Overall, a pretty solid package as far as I am concerned. I can dial in as much neutral/oversteer as I want and corner a lot more flatly at the track than before.
Tires: for the track, I bought a set of Kumho Victoracers used from an auto-x guy, in 225/50/16 and threw them on the stock rims. I love these things and you just can't beat them for the price. They were good for a couple of seconds a lap at Road Atlanta over my sticky Michelin Pilot Sport streets.
Remember, this is just my 2 cents and you'll have to make the call ultimately on what you want. It is important that you try to match the components to meet your end goal, so make sure to define those first or you'll end up buying the same stuff more than once...
If you have questions, let me know. I don't claim to be a suspension engineer but I'm glad to share my own experiences.
Last thing: there is nothing better than track time. The more you drive, the better you'll get.
Scott
[B]So, you're saying replace the rear bar, but not the front one?
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty new at this stuff. BTW, you're not the first to advise me to spend my money on track time! :) Good advice! Ain't no such thing as too much track time!
Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey Fastwrx,
The WRX sedan is biased towards understeer from the factory, pretty heavily in fact. Putting on a heavier RSB and replacing the high-compliance factory endlinks can help make the car more neutral and even bias towards oversteer. It's also convenient that the RSB/endlink combo is relatively inexpensive.
I'd suggest a blade-type adjustable RSB. They come in several sizes and from many manufacturers (Cusco, Whiteline, and Hotchkiss all come to mind). The basic RSB's are generally 22mm in diameter, with adjustable mounting points to give you a couple of more options. When you see a sway bar shown as 20-22-24mm, the middle number is the actual diameter. The lower and higher numbers can be obtained by using the other mounting holes. Generically speaking, the higher effective diameter of the rear bar, the more your car will be biased away from understeer.
I didn't see the logic in buying a 20-22-24 bar since the factory bar is 20 mm already. I'm cheap, so I went with the Whiteline 'race-only' 24mm bar, which has effective diameters of 22-24-26 mm.
I would also suggest the heavy duty endlinks. Some people have said that the Whiteline endlinks have broken on them and instead go with the Kartboy endlinks. The Kartboy stuff is beautiful but costly. Again, I'm cheap, so I went with the Whiteline. I have tracked very hard on these things all summer and so far have no issues.
Springs: you need to determine what you want out of a spring. I wanted increased body roll resistance and a small bit of lowering, without some stupid hack on my factory struts. The Prodrives were designed for use on the factory struts and otherwise meet my goals. These weren't cheap, like 280 bucks, but are a very good deal for me as opposed to coilovers.
Overall, a pretty solid package as far as I am concerned. I can dial in as much neutral/oversteer as I want and corner a lot more flatly at the track than before.
Tires: for the track, I bought a set of Kumho Victoracers used from an auto-x guy, in 225/50/16 and threw them on the stock rims. I love these things and you just can't beat them for the price. They were good for a couple of seconds a lap at Road Atlanta over my sticky Michelin Pilot Sport streets.
Remember, this is just my 2 cents and you'll have to make the call ultimately on what you want. It is important that you try to match the components to meet your end goal, so make sure to define those first or you'll end up buying the same stuff more than once...
If you have questions, let me know. I don't claim to be a suspension engineer but I'm glad to share my own experiences.
Last thing: there is nothing better than track time. The more you drive, the better you'll get.
Scott
| IXLR8 | 11-23-2002 06:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by fastwrx [/i]
[B]So, you're saying replace the rear bar, but not the front one?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, what sdecker said... although for the track, especially with stock springs (and even without) I'm not fond of the stiff end links. It's a small thing and a matter of personal preference really, but for a basically stock suspension, I didn't really like stiffer endlinks... I found I could run the next size larger rear bar more comfortably w/o the links... the car has a more forgiving turn-in at speed... easier to toss it with confidence into a corner...
You'll find a lot (most) of the guys on this board equate body roll with "handling" (less body roll = better handling). Another common argument here (this one makes better sense) come from the auto-x'ers who want to be able to transfer weight rapidly from one side to the other and therefore need a stiffer front end even if it costs them traction.... but for what you're doing (track driving) the most important consideration is balance and overall grip... doesn't matter if the door handles are scraping if you're hooked up!
As for your 17 inchers... I'd use them for my street tires and get the expensive toyos off the road as quickly as possible... save 'em for the track. Remember it's not just how much rubber is left on R compounds that determines their useful life... it's the number of heat cycles they go through. After each cycle, the rubber hardens a bit, so you can have a set of tires that look fresh as far a tread depth is concerned, but won't grip for beans.
Finally, since I'm an instructor, I'm completely biased, but as you already recognize, money spent on you (track time) is by far the best bang for the buck!
[B]So, you're saying replace the rear bar, but not the front one?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, what sdecker said... although for the track, especially with stock springs (and even without) I'm not fond of the stiff end links. It's a small thing and a matter of personal preference really, but for a basically stock suspension, I didn't really like stiffer endlinks... I found I could run the next size larger rear bar more comfortably w/o the links... the car has a more forgiving turn-in at speed... easier to toss it with confidence into a corner...
You'll find a lot (most) of the guys on this board equate body roll with "handling" (less body roll = better handling). Another common argument here (this one makes better sense) come from the auto-x'ers who want to be able to transfer weight rapidly from one side to the other and therefore need a stiffer front end even if it costs them traction.... but for what you're doing (track driving) the most important consideration is balance and overall grip... doesn't matter if the door handles are scraping if you're hooked up!
As for your 17 inchers... I'd use them for my street tires and get the expensive toyos off the road as quickly as possible... save 'em for the track. Remember it's not just how much rubber is left on R compounds that determines their useful life... it's the number of heat cycles they go through. After each cycle, the rubber hardens a bit, so you can have a set of tires that look fresh as far a tread depth is concerned, but won't grip for beans.
Finally, since I'm an instructor, I'm completely biased, but as you already recognize, money spent on you (track time) is by far the best bang for the buck!
| jagwoods | 11-25-2002 01:49 PM |
Has anyone tracked a WRX wagon? I want to give it a shot, but with me not having much money, I would have to run completely stock. Will I be alright in a stock wagon?
Jay
Jay
| sdecker | 11-25-2002 02:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jagwoods [/i]
[B]Has anyone tracked a WRX wagon? I want to give it a shot, but with me not having much money, I would have to run completely stock. Will I be alright in a stock wagon?
Jay [/B][/QUOTE]
You'll be fine. The biggest thing I would be concerned about is the stock brake pads. Mine were crumbling on the leading edges after two full track days. Go with a nice aftermarket pad and you'll be in good shape. Otherwise, the stock car will do nicely for learning.
Scott
[B]Has anyone tracked a WRX wagon? I want to give it a shot, but with me not having much money, I would have to run completely stock. Will I be alright in a stock wagon?
Jay [/B][/QUOTE]
You'll be fine. The biggest thing I would be concerned about is the stock brake pads. Mine were crumbling on the leading edges after two full track days. Go with a nice aftermarket pad and you'll be in good shape. Otherwise, the stock car will do nicely for learning.
Scott
| dknv | 11-25-2002 04:35 PM |
tracking your wagon?
�
�
I was at a NASA event at Sears Point this past weekend, in my wrx wagon, with a lot of other wrx & legacy wagons, and they handle great! The first trick though, is to get the driver the right experience at the right level.
If you're going to a NASA HPDE event, instruction in group 1 is the way to start if you haven't done it before. And even after you graduate from group 1, take advantage of instructors' offers of time to sit in the car with you, their wisdom can really pay off.
I'd echo any sentiment about setup -- first & foremost by having your brain turned on, followed by making sure your vehicle is ready to go. Even in a new car, or in one that's just been teched, still check tire pressures, torque lugnuts, know the condition of your brakes and make sure they're up to spec. Make sure your gas cap is on tight and you have gas. This may sound like silly simple things, but I actually had a car in front of me spilling gas while going through a turn, because he forgot to put the gas cap back on. Use checklists.
Lots of advice available at the track too, so seek out some friendly fellow drivers. Then go out and have a blast.
If you're going to a NASA HPDE event, instruction in group 1 is the way to start if you haven't done it before. And even after you graduate from group 1, take advantage of instructors' offers of time to sit in the car with you, their wisdom can really pay off.
I'd echo any sentiment about setup -- first & foremost by having your brain turned on, followed by making sure your vehicle is ready to go. Even in a new car, or in one that's just been teched, still check tire pressures, torque lugnuts, know the condition of your brakes and make sure they're up to spec. Make sure your gas cap is on tight and you have gas. This may sound like silly simple things, but I actually had a car in front of me spilling gas while going through a turn, because he forgot to put the gas cap back on. Use checklists.
Lots of advice available at the track too, so seek out some friendly fellow drivers. Then go out and have a blast.
| Jack | 11-25-2002 04:57 PM |
For your first track event, go through that PCA list. It's a "make your car mechanically safe and have a good helmet" list. I've tracked my street cars for 17 years now. 2 windshield stars from rocks, a few scratches and lots of rubber marks (which come off) are about all the car sees. Even the RE92's are ok until you see chunking. I've instructed for a few years now, and can tell you that I'd much rather see a stock car with a novice than some prepared one. Listen and learn. Go for it!
jack
jack
| russellh68 | 11-25-2002 07:27 PM |
Tracking the Wagon
�
�
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jagwoods [/i]
[B]Has anyone tracked a WRX wagon? I want to give it a shot, but with me not having much money, I would have to run completely stock. Will I be alright in a stock wagon?
Jay [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, track your wagon. I have a sedan rear swaybar (pick one up cheap from any sedan guy who has upgraded) and a good alignment (search for specs from the autocrossers) and my wagon is perfectly ballanced.
We had 1 session with rain during my last HPDE and that was an eye opener. Nothing like dodging fishtailing 911s and spinning M3s with the AWD hookup baby!!! :D
Of course they were waving my little white wagon by in the dry as well. Like many in this thread have mentioned..... unless you have been on the track ALOT, the stock car is more capable than the driver.
Just remember to be safe and have fun.
[B]Has anyone tracked a WRX wagon? I want to give it a shot, but with me not having much money, I would have to run completely stock. Will I be alright in a stock wagon?
Jay [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, track your wagon. I have a sedan rear swaybar (pick one up cheap from any sedan guy who has upgraded) and a good alignment (search for specs from the autocrossers) and my wagon is perfectly ballanced.
We had 1 session with rain during my last HPDE and that was an eye opener. Nothing like dodging fishtailing 911s and spinning M3s with the AWD hookup baby!!! :D
Of course they were waving my little white wagon by in the dry as well. Like many in this thread have mentioned..... unless you have been on the track ALOT, the stock car is more capable than the driver.
Just remember to be safe and have fun.
| hoche | 11-27-2002 06:34 AM |
Just my $.02...
Go ahead and track it. I don't know how many tracks there are in your area, but you might want to check around. Some are pretty tight with lots of walls, and some are designed with lots of runoff space. I live near SF, and around here there're four tracks. Thunderhill was built so that it's wide open, so I push the car pretty hard there. Sears Point had some nasty spots, but I understand they've pushed the walls back so it's safer. Laguna Seca is just plain scary if you're worried about smacking your car into a wall. And I haven't been to the Buttonwillow track, but I understand it's got lots of runoff too.
I've run my car completely stock. Just rolled in off the street, unloaded my spare tire and stuff, and then hit the track. I'm glad I did it, because it gave me a really good idea of how it handles when pushed to the limit. Yep, it has lots of understeer. Yours probably has less because the WRX is set up slightly differently, but expect it to understeer nonetheless. The understeer will mean that unless you're conservative, you'll fry your front tires. I put in a few really hard runs, and ended up overheating the front tires and melting the outer edge blocks. Again, I'm glad I did it because it gave me an idea of how it feels when pushed a little too far, but it's definitely the sort of thing you keep track of and don't overdo. That convinced me to buy a set of 17" racing rims and some BFGoodrich gForce KD's for the track.
The other thing to consider is your brakes. The stock pads are pretty soft and don't deal with heat buildup very well. They're designed for your average street driver, who doesn't use the brakes very hard, but wants an instant response without too much pedal pressure. I had two side effects from tracking with the stock brakes. The first was that I went through about half the front pads in one day. The second was that they started to fade. I'm pretty sure I boiled the fluid, and I'm pretty sure I glazed 'em. I've since switched to Porterfield R4-S pads and Superblue fluid, and that seems fine.
I'm still running the stock suspension. It still understeers and I still get lots of body roll, but I'm reluctant to add stiffer sway bars because I also rallycross it, and I don't want to tie the two sides of the suspension together too much. I may end up putting in stiffer springs (if I can find non-lowering ones) and I may end up putting in a slightly larger rear swaybar, but I haven't decided yet. Right now I just deal with it.
As for wear and tear on the car...well, you'll heat cycle your tires and scrub off some brake pad no matter how you look at it, but the only other issue is that you'll be running at fairly high RPMs all the time. Make sure you've got good (freshly changed) oil and coolant.
Get a good instructor if you can. He'll show you the lines for the course, and make suggestions that will help you be smooth. Remember, smoothness counts.
Oh, and if someone's catching you in the corners but you can beat them in the straight, be nice and wave them by anyway. For me the most frustrating thing is when I catch up to someone and then in the next straight they just power away. I only have 142hp, and it's really aggravating. The most annoying instance of this was a Ferrari driver who didn't know how to drive. He was really slow in the corners, but every straightaway was a drag strip. I finally ended up going into the pits and letting him get almost a lap ahead of me before heading back out.
Finally, in most cars you shouldn't use the ebrake in the pits. Generally the ebrake is a cable that pulls the pads against the rotor, and when they're already hot from racing they can just melt against it. I understand this isn't a problem with the WRXes though, because they apparently have a separate mini-drum brake on each rear wheel for the ebrake, but I don't know for sure.
Go ahead and track it. I don't know how many tracks there are in your area, but you might want to check around. Some are pretty tight with lots of walls, and some are designed with lots of runoff space. I live near SF, and around here there're four tracks. Thunderhill was built so that it's wide open, so I push the car pretty hard there. Sears Point had some nasty spots, but I understand they've pushed the walls back so it's safer. Laguna Seca is just plain scary if you're worried about smacking your car into a wall. And I haven't been to the Buttonwillow track, but I understand it's got lots of runoff too.
I've run my car completely stock. Just rolled in off the street, unloaded my spare tire and stuff, and then hit the track. I'm glad I did it, because it gave me a really good idea of how it handles when pushed to the limit. Yep, it has lots of understeer. Yours probably has less because the WRX is set up slightly differently, but expect it to understeer nonetheless. The understeer will mean that unless you're conservative, you'll fry your front tires. I put in a few really hard runs, and ended up overheating the front tires and melting the outer edge blocks. Again, I'm glad I did it because it gave me an idea of how it feels when pushed a little too far, but it's definitely the sort of thing you keep track of and don't overdo. That convinced me to buy a set of 17" racing rims and some BFGoodrich gForce KD's for the track.
The other thing to consider is your brakes. The stock pads are pretty soft and don't deal with heat buildup very well. They're designed for your average street driver, who doesn't use the brakes very hard, but wants an instant response without too much pedal pressure. I had two side effects from tracking with the stock brakes. The first was that I went through about half the front pads in one day. The second was that they started to fade. I'm pretty sure I boiled the fluid, and I'm pretty sure I glazed 'em. I've since switched to Porterfield R4-S pads and Superblue fluid, and that seems fine.
I'm still running the stock suspension. It still understeers and I still get lots of body roll, but I'm reluctant to add stiffer sway bars because I also rallycross it, and I don't want to tie the two sides of the suspension together too much. I may end up putting in stiffer springs (if I can find non-lowering ones) and I may end up putting in a slightly larger rear swaybar, but I haven't decided yet. Right now I just deal with it.
As for wear and tear on the car...well, you'll heat cycle your tires and scrub off some brake pad no matter how you look at it, but the only other issue is that you'll be running at fairly high RPMs all the time. Make sure you've got good (freshly changed) oil and coolant.
Get a good instructor if you can. He'll show you the lines for the course, and make suggestions that will help you be smooth. Remember, smoothness counts.
Oh, and if someone's catching you in the corners but you can beat them in the straight, be nice and wave them by anyway. For me the most frustrating thing is when I catch up to someone and then in the next straight they just power away. I only have 142hp, and it's really aggravating. The most annoying instance of this was a Ferrari driver who didn't know how to drive. He was really slow in the corners, but every straightaway was a drag strip. I finally ended up going into the pits and letting him get almost a lap ahead of me before heading back out.
Finally, in most cars you shouldn't use the ebrake in the pits. Generally the ebrake is a cable that pulls the pads against the rotor, and when they're already hot from racing they can just melt against it. I understand this isn't a problem with the WRXes though, because they apparently have a separate mini-drum brake on each rear wheel for the ebrake, but I don't know for sure.
| dknv | 11-27-2002 01:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by hoche [/i]
[B]..Finally, in most cars you shouldn't use the ebrake in the pits. Generally the ebrake is a cable that pulls the pads against the rotor, and when they're already hot from racing they can just melt against it. I understand this isn't a problem with the WRXes though, because they apparently have a separate mini-drum brake on each rear wheel for the ebrake, but I don't know for sure. [/B][/QUOTE]
I heard this too (re: e-brake), for the first time this past weekend. . Can someone confirm?
[B]..Finally, in most cars you shouldn't use the ebrake in the pits. Generally the ebrake is a cable that pulls the pads against the rotor, and when they're already hot from racing they can just melt against it. I understand this isn't a problem with the WRXes though, because they apparently have a separate mini-drum brake on each rear wheel for the ebrake, but I don't know for sure. [/B][/QUOTE]
I heard this too (re: e-brake), for the first time this past weekend. . Can someone confirm?
| elgorey | 11-27-2002 01:39 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dknv [/i]
[B]
I heard this too (re: e-brake), for the first time this past weekend. . Can someone confirm? [/B][/QUOTE]
for the impreza this is false. Our ebrake does not use the rear caliper/rotor to stop, there is a small drum inside the rotor, which is what the ebrake uses.
It is best to coast to a stop, but if you need to brake, it is actually better to use the ebrake than the pedal. Using the pedal will leave the brakes pressed onto the rotor after you stop which can cause warping, uneven pad transfer, and possibly cracking
[B]
I heard this too (re: e-brake), for the first time this past weekend. . Can someone confirm? [/B][/QUOTE]
for the impreza this is false. Our ebrake does not use the rear caliper/rotor to stop, there is a small drum inside the rotor, which is what the ebrake uses.
It is best to coast to a stop, but if you need to brake, it is actually better to use the ebrake than the pedal. Using the pedal will leave the brakes pressed onto the rotor after you stop which can cause warping, uneven pad transfer, and possibly cracking
| dknv | 11-27-2002 03:50 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elgorey [/i]
[B]
... Using the pedal will leave the brakes pressed onto the rotor after you stop which can cause warping, uneven pad transfer, and possibly cracking [/B][/QUOTE]
Ok, thanks. So, I've also heard & seen people taking their car in an open space after a run group, drive a little bit while turning the wheel from side to side (maybe 90+ degrees) a few times, which helps to release the brakes from being pressed onto the rotors. Anyone here do this?
[B]
... Using the pedal will leave the brakes pressed onto the rotor after you stop which can cause warping, uneven pad transfer, and possibly cracking [/B][/QUOTE]
Ok, thanks. So, I've also heard & seen people taking their car in an open space after a run group, drive a little bit while turning the wheel from side to side (maybe 90+ degrees) a few times, which helps to release the brakes from being pressed onto the rotors. Anyone here do this?
| johnfelstead | 11-27-2002 06:21 PM |
little something i wrote for the driving techniques website
�
�
To be able to enjoy to the maximum a track day using your road car it pays to spend some time in basic preparation. I will try and break down some of the simple checks and changes you can make to your car to enable you to get the most time on track during the day and to stay safe whilst driving harder than you would do on a public road.
Interior
Remove all loose objects from the car interior. If you have a fury dice or air freshener hanging from your coat hooks/mirror take it out. Empty your glove box of all unnecessary clutter and remove all the floor mats, especially the driver�s side floor mat and vacuum the floor to remove any small stones etc.
Remove anything that will slide around under cornering loads and will distract your attention from driving the car. At the track remove the spare wheel and store it in a secure location. If you plan to remove items at the track make sure you arrange for a permanently manned area for storage or a friends car boot, it is not uncommon for scum to be wandering around the paddock looking for an opportunity to make a quick profit.
Brakes
The brakes on your road car are likely to be the most inadequate area of the car when you drive on track. During your everyday road driving you will only use the brakes at working temperature for about 1% of the time on a motorway, 15% of the time commuting and 25% of the time cross country driving. When on track this pattern changes dramatically, you will have the brakes upto full working temperature for at least 85% of the lap time. This is a huge change in use from that the car designers envisaged and should you decide to use the car in standard set-up you will quickly realise that after 2 laps of most circuits you will have to slow down to allow the brakes to recover.
There are 3 main areas you can tackle to improve the situation dramatically, they are listed in no particular order, as all three are important.
1. Brake Pad Material.
2. Brake Fluid Type
3. Brake Disk Cooling
Brake Pad Material
The brake pads fitted to your road car are designed to do the following jobs. Work from cold, produce minimal dust and last longer than the service interval of the vehicle. The pads fitted to your road car in this application are perfectly adequate for the job intended however as soon as you take your car onto a race circuit they will quickly fail to cope with the demands put upon them. You have 3 choices as to how you tackle this problem. First you can choose to ignore the problem and limit the number of continuous laps you drive on track, a rather frustrating approach in my book. Secondly you can choose to use a compromise brake pad that works well on both road and track, such as a fast road brake pad. Finally you can choose to use a full race brake pad and fit these on arrival at the track and remove them at the end of the day before driving home on public roads.
If you are looking for the maximum performance from your car on track then the full race pad option is the one for you. If you want to be able to stay on track for a prolonged period of time and are happy to give away some performance for a lack of mechanical work at the track then the fast road pad is your best option. Normal road pads on track in my opinion should never be used, the main reason is that after overheating them on track (which you will do), they never work at 100% of there original performance again and quite often suffer from cracking which could lead to brake failure in the future.
The other major area to bear in mind is the life of the pad. A fast road pad on an average weight road car will last about 100 miles on track before wearing to the minimum pad thickness, on the road this same pad will last about 7000 miles.
Brake Fluid Type
When was the last time you replaced your brake fluid? Why did I ask the question?
Most brake fluid�s are hydroscopic, this means the brake fluid absorbs water from the atmosphere, which reduces its boiling temperature. It is unlikely you will ever boil the brake fluid when driving on the road and yet it is a main service replacement task at least every 3 years. I suggest you have your brake fluid replaced with a DOT 5.1 or better fluid when you plan to do a track day and then have it changed every year to keep the boiling point as high as possible.
Avoid using full race fluids as they tend to be more effected by water absorption and are designed to be replaced far more regularly than a road car fluid. They do usually work at a higher initial temperature however this drops off far more rapidly than a road spec fluid.
Brake Disk Cooling
Ventilated brake disks cool by acting as a centrifuge, forcing air from the centre of the disk out through the vanes and into the wheel rim area. Race spec disks are handed and have a spiral design to the internal vanes to improve the centrifuge effect. If you have upgraded brakes with race spec disks make sure they are on the correct side, it always amazes me how many people fit them on the wrong side, racing teams included. The easiest way of improving cooling to your road car brakes is to do a temporary fix at the racetrack. Buy some 3� diameter tube and tie it to the underside of the car with the front pointing directly forward and the rear pointing into the centre of the disk eye. Once fitted do a check to ensure the pipe is not fouling on any of the steering/suspension under all movement. This simple bodge could be the difference between having 100% useful brakes and suffering from brake fade or boiling fluid, it is worth the effort if you have marginal brakes in particular.
Using Road Tyres
How do you choose which tyres to use? Is it OK to use the tyres already fitted to the car?
The tyres on your road car are going to suffer as much abuse as your brakes when driving your road car on a racing circuit. Road tyres have to work in a very wide band of applications from pouring rain to scorching hot public roads. They are designed to provide acceptable grip yet minimal noise and on average must last at least 20,000 miles. All of the above requirements are contradictory and tyre engineers do a remarkable job to achieve a usable compromise.
I will base the following comments on the assumption that the track is dry. Should you be driving on a wet track then a great deal of the problems seen with using road tyres does not materialise due to low lateral loading.
What happens to a tyre when driving on track?
The first thing to be aware of is that the work each tyre does on a racetrack is not uniform. The front left tyre always has the hardest life on a clockwise track (Most UK circuits). Unlike driving on the public road where you will be cornering with both directions equally, due to the nature of the track you will mainly be cornering in one direction (right hand corners). The effect of this is that the front left tyre heats up far quicker than the other three and will wear much quicker as well. I will cover how to monitor this and compensate for it later. The next most worked tyre will be the left rear tyre, which sees a great deal of loading on a fast sweeping circuit in particular.
There are two main reasons why a tyre heats up; the first is due to the sidewall deflection generating massive heat in the tyre carcass, which has the effect of heating up the gases inside the tyre. As we all know if you heat a gas it expands, this leads to an increase in tyre pressure as the heat builds. The other reason is due to the flexing of the tread block, the larger the tread block in surface area the less it moves and therefore the less it heats up, the deeper the tread block the more it moves and therefore the more it heats up. As you can see from this the best road tyre for use on track will be one with minimal tread depth (below the legal limit) and a very large block pattern, especially on the outside edges of the tread.
As you can see from the above it is much better to use a part worn tyre than your currently fitted legal road tyre, this means that ideally you should have two sets of wheels if you plan to do regular track day�s. It is not impossible to drive on track with your usual tyre/wheel combination, I did it myself at first, however the wear rate is so high that you are throwing good money away and running the risk of having to drive home on illegal tyres. Something which is very heavily penalised in the UK (3 points per tyre).
Some track days organise a dedicated tyre supplier to attend the day to swap tyres over at the start/end of the day or to supply new tyres to be fitted at the end of the day after you have destroyed your old set.
This is a superb service if you don�t wish to buy a second set of tyres and takes a great deal of the worry away from keeping your tyres in a legal state to drive home on.
Ideally you are also looking for a tyre that has a fairly hard compound; a tyre that works incredibly well on the road with massive grip will most likely be a soft compound. Take this same tyre onto a racetrack and after about 2 laps it will start to overheat the tread and start to slide around, as the rubber becomes more liquid. It is very common to see a high performance tyre destroy its outer edges of the tread pattern and have an angular wear pattern to all the tread blocks, with the outer edge of each block being worn down to the level of the underlying carcass. This effect is always worse on a newer tyre as the tread block is deeper and generates more heat compounding the problem. Sometimes the less well thought of road tyre is actually a better option on track due to its harder compound.
How do you set your tyre pressures when driving on track?
When setting your tyre pressures for your road car during your weekly car checks (you do this don�t you!) you should always set these when cold to give a static state of reference. As you drive your tyre pressures will always increase due to the heat generated as explained above.
When it comes to setting tyre pressures for the track this method has to be thrown out of the window. Due to the fact that all four tyres run at different temperatures on a racetrack you have to set each corner independently. Also it is advisable to run the tyres at a higher pressure than you would on the road, this is mainly to help the tyre to maintain its shape under hard cornering and support the sidewall. I usually suggest you run 4-6 PSI higher than you would on the road.
Set your tyre pressures evenly before you go on track for the first time 4PSI higher than your normal cold pressures. Go out on track and do one slow lap, one fast lap then one slow lap and come back into the pits. Check your tyre pressures again, you will find that they are all now different to each other with the front left being the highest. Reset your tyre pressures and this time go out and do one slow lap, 5 fast laps then one slow lap and come back into the pits. All four tyres will again have risen with the front left the highest again. Reset all the tyres to be 6PSI higher than you would use on the road and repeat the last exercise. You should now start to see all four tyres stabilising the pressures; you may have to drop the front left a little to even out the pressures. You should now be in a position to drive the car at will without much change in pressures being seen for the rest of the day. It is always a good idea to check your pressures after each run (not just before) to ensure you are not seeing a sudden drop off of pressure in one tyre as this is a good sign you are heading for a tyre failure on track.
Finally remember that if you are intending to drive home on these same tyres check the tread is still legal and check your tyre pressures after 10 miles of normal driving, they will be all over the place and will need resetting. Reset them again in the following morning as per your normal weekly checks.
A word of warning on using road tyres on track. Make sure you know the speed rating of the tyres fitted to your car and never exceed this speed whilst driving on track. As an example I never drive above 85MPH on the public road and yet I often drive faster than 150MPH on a racetrack. If you are going to drive this quickly make sure the tyres are rated for this speed, you do not want a tread failure at 150MPH, it would not be fun.
Using Slick Racing Tyres
The main benefits of using slick racing tyres on track days are that by definition you will not be wearing out your road tyres and you will be using a tyre designed specifically for the job.
You can set the tyre pressure in the same way as described above however you need to speak to your tyre supplier to get the optimum working pressure of the tyre. As an example on our lotus esprit racecar we run 22PSI front pressure hot and 18PSI rear pressure hot. These are using F3000 spec tyres on a 700Kg 420BHP racing car. Slick running pressures need to be very different to a road tyre and each type of slick construction has its own specific requirements, your tyre supplier is the best source of information on these requirements.
You will see much better wear characteristics using slick racing tyres and will generate incredibly high levels of cornering speed compared to people on road tyres. Taking 10 seconds a lap off your lap time is not uncommon with a skilled driver when going from road to slick racing tyres. There is a downside to this. Firstly, when the limit of the tyre is reached the breakaway characteristics are not as user friendly as a road tyre, especially when using radial slicks (crossply�s are still heavily used for slick tyres). When you do go over the limit of the tyre you will be travelling much faster than if you were on a road tyre, making the impending crash more severe. The brakes on your car will be worked much harder than when using road tyres as the speeds you are slowing from will be higher and the tyre will allow much harder braking before you see brake lockup. Finally and most importantly in my opinion the likelihood of seeing oil starvation on your engine (and gearbox, diff) will be massively increased which could lead to engine failure. With the increased cornering forces the oil in the engine sump will be forced up the outside edge of the engine block and out of the sump where the oil pump pickup pipe is located. This will starve the pump of any oil and your engine bearings will run dry, this only needs to happen for a few seconds to see total engine failure (rod out the side of the block is a good one). If you plan to drive on track with slick tyres an absolute minimum requirement is a baffled sump, ideally you should have the engine converted to a dry sump system to be 100% certain of permanent oil feed. Some modern high performance cars have a baffled sump fitted as standard, if you do plan to use slicks I suggest you do some homework to see if your particular car is safe and has a baffled sump.
Interior
Remove all loose objects from the car interior. If you have a fury dice or air freshener hanging from your coat hooks/mirror take it out. Empty your glove box of all unnecessary clutter and remove all the floor mats, especially the driver�s side floor mat and vacuum the floor to remove any small stones etc.
Remove anything that will slide around under cornering loads and will distract your attention from driving the car. At the track remove the spare wheel and store it in a secure location. If you plan to remove items at the track make sure you arrange for a permanently manned area for storage or a friends car boot, it is not uncommon for scum to be wandering around the paddock looking for an opportunity to make a quick profit.
Brakes
The brakes on your road car are likely to be the most inadequate area of the car when you drive on track. During your everyday road driving you will only use the brakes at working temperature for about 1% of the time on a motorway, 15% of the time commuting and 25% of the time cross country driving. When on track this pattern changes dramatically, you will have the brakes upto full working temperature for at least 85% of the lap time. This is a huge change in use from that the car designers envisaged and should you decide to use the car in standard set-up you will quickly realise that after 2 laps of most circuits you will have to slow down to allow the brakes to recover.
There are 3 main areas you can tackle to improve the situation dramatically, they are listed in no particular order, as all three are important.
1. Brake Pad Material.
2. Brake Fluid Type
3. Brake Disk Cooling
Brake Pad Material
The brake pads fitted to your road car are designed to do the following jobs. Work from cold, produce minimal dust and last longer than the service interval of the vehicle. The pads fitted to your road car in this application are perfectly adequate for the job intended however as soon as you take your car onto a race circuit they will quickly fail to cope with the demands put upon them. You have 3 choices as to how you tackle this problem. First you can choose to ignore the problem and limit the number of continuous laps you drive on track, a rather frustrating approach in my book. Secondly you can choose to use a compromise brake pad that works well on both road and track, such as a fast road brake pad. Finally you can choose to use a full race brake pad and fit these on arrival at the track and remove them at the end of the day before driving home on public roads.
If you are looking for the maximum performance from your car on track then the full race pad option is the one for you. If you want to be able to stay on track for a prolonged period of time and are happy to give away some performance for a lack of mechanical work at the track then the fast road pad is your best option. Normal road pads on track in my opinion should never be used, the main reason is that after overheating them on track (which you will do), they never work at 100% of there original performance again and quite often suffer from cracking which could lead to brake failure in the future.
The other major area to bear in mind is the life of the pad. A fast road pad on an average weight road car will last about 100 miles on track before wearing to the minimum pad thickness, on the road this same pad will last about 7000 miles.
Brake Fluid Type
When was the last time you replaced your brake fluid? Why did I ask the question?
Most brake fluid�s are hydroscopic, this means the brake fluid absorbs water from the atmosphere, which reduces its boiling temperature. It is unlikely you will ever boil the brake fluid when driving on the road and yet it is a main service replacement task at least every 3 years. I suggest you have your brake fluid replaced with a DOT 5.1 or better fluid when you plan to do a track day and then have it changed every year to keep the boiling point as high as possible.
Avoid using full race fluids as they tend to be more effected by water absorption and are designed to be replaced far more regularly than a road car fluid. They do usually work at a higher initial temperature however this drops off far more rapidly than a road spec fluid.
Brake Disk Cooling
Ventilated brake disks cool by acting as a centrifuge, forcing air from the centre of the disk out through the vanes and into the wheel rim area. Race spec disks are handed and have a spiral design to the internal vanes to improve the centrifuge effect. If you have upgraded brakes with race spec disks make sure they are on the correct side, it always amazes me how many people fit them on the wrong side, racing teams included. The easiest way of improving cooling to your road car brakes is to do a temporary fix at the racetrack. Buy some 3� diameter tube and tie it to the underside of the car with the front pointing directly forward and the rear pointing into the centre of the disk eye. Once fitted do a check to ensure the pipe is not fouling on any of the steering/suspension under all movement. This simple bodge could be the difference between having 100% useful brakes and suffering from brake fade or boiling fluid, it is worth the effort if you have marginal brakes in particular.
Using Road Tyres
How do you choose which tyres to use? Is it OK to use the tyres already fitted to the car?
The tyres on your road car are going to suffer as much abuse as your brakes when driving your road car on a racing circuit. Road tyres have to work in a very wide band of applications from pouring rain to scorching hot public roads. They are designed to provide acceptable grip yet minimal noise and on average must last at least 20,000 miles. All of the above requirements are contradictory and tyre engineers do a remarkable job to achieve a usable compromise.
I will base the following comments on the assumption that the track is dry. Should you be driving on a wet track then a great deal of the problems seen with using road tyres does not materialise due to low lateral loading.
What happens to a tyre when driving on track?
The first thing to be aware of is that the work each tyre does on a racetrack is not uniform. The front left tyre always has the hardest life on a clockwise track (Most UK circuits). Unlike driving on the public road where you will be cornering with both directions equally, due to the nature of the track you will mainly be cornering in one direction (right hand corners). The effect of this is that the front left tyre heats up far quicker than the other three and will wear much quicker as well. I will cover how to monitor this and compensate for it later. The next most worked tyre will be the left rear tyre, which sees a great deal of loading on a fast sweeping circuit in particular.
There are two main reasons why a tyre heats up; the first is due to the sidewall deflection generating massive heat in the tyre carcass, which has the effect of heating up the gases inside the tyre. As we all know if you heat a gas it expands, this leads to an increase in tyre pressure as the heat builds. The other reason is due to the flexing of the tread block, the larger the tread block in surface area the less it moves and therefore the less it heats up, the deeper the tread block the more it moves and therefore the more it heats up. As you can see from this the best road tyre for use on track will be one with minimal tread depth (below the legal limit) and a very large block pattern, especially on the outside edges of the tread.
As you can see from the above it is much better to use a part worn tyre than your currently fitted legal road tyre, this means that ideally you should have two sets of wheels if you plan to do regular track day�s. It is not impossible to drive on track with your usual tyre/wheel combination, I did it myself at first, however the wear rate is so high that you are throwing good money away and running the risk of having to drive home on illegal tyres. Something which is very heavily penalised in the UK (3 points per tyre).
Some track days organise a dedicated tyre supplier to attend the day to swap tyres over at the start/end of the day or to supply new tyres to be fitted at the end of the day after you have destroyed your old set.
This is a superb service if you don�t wish to buy a second set of tyres and takes a great deal of the worry away from keeping your tyres in a legal state to drive home on.
Ideally you are also looking for a tyre that has a fairly hard compound; a tyre that works incredibly well on the road with massive grip will most likely be a soft compound. Take this same tyre onto a racetrack and after about 2 laps it will start to overheat the tread and start to slide around, as the rubber becomes more liquid. It is very common to see a high performance tyre destroy its outer edges of the tread pattern and have an angular wear pattern to all the tread blocks, with the outer edge of each block being worn down to the level of the underlying carcass. This effect is always worse on a newer tyre as the tread block is deeper and generates more heat compounding the problem. Sometimes the less well thought of road tyre is actually a better option on track due to its harder compound.
How do you set your tyre pressures when driving on track?
When setting your tyre pressures for your road car during your weekly car checks (you do this don�t you!) you should always set these when cold to give a static state of reference. As you drive your tyre pressures will always increase due to the heat generated as explained above.
When it comes to setting tyre pressures for the track this method has to be thrown out of the window. Due to the fact that all four tyres run at different temperatures on a racetrack you have to set each corner independently. Also it is advisable to run the tyres at a higher pressure than you would on the road, this is mainly to help the tyre to maintain its shape under hard cornering and support the sidewall. I usually suggest you run 4-6 PSI higher than you would on the road.
Set your tyre pressures evenly before you go on track for the first time 4PSI higher than your normal cold pressures. Go out on track and do one slow lap, one fast lap then one slow lap and come back into the pits. Check your tyre pressures again, you will find that they are all now different to each other with the front left being the highest. Reset your tyre pressures and this time go out and do one slow lap, 5 fast laps then one slow lap and come back into the pits. All four tyres will again have risen with the front left the highest again. Reset all the tyres to be 6PSI higher than you would use on the road and repeat the last exercise. You should now start to see all four tyres stabilising the pressures; you may have to drop the front left a little to even out the pressures. You should now be in a position to drive the car at will without much change in pressures being seen for the rest of the day. It is always a good idea to check your pressures after each run (not just before) to ensure you are not seeing a sudden drop off of pressure in one tyre as this is a good sign you are heading for a tyre failure on track.
Finally remember that if you are intending to drive home on these same tyres check the tread is still legal and check your tyre pressures after 10 miles of normal driving, they will be all over the place and will need resetting. Reset them again in the following morning as per your normal weekly checks.
A word of warning on using road tyres on track. Make sure you know the speed rating of the tyres fitted to your car and never exceed this speed whilst driving on track. As an example I never drive above 85MPH on the public road and yet I often drive faster than 150MPH on a racetrack. If you are going to drive this quickly make sure the tyres are rated for this speed, you do not want a tread failure at 150MPH, it would not be fun.
Using Slick Racing Tyres
The main benefits of using slick racing tyres on track days are that by definition you will not be wearing out your road tyres and you will be using a tyre designed specifically for the job.
You can set the tyre pressure in the same way as described above however you need to speak to your tyre supplier to get the optimum working pressure of the tyre. As an example on our lotus esprit racecar we run 22PSI front pressure hot and 18PSI rear pressure hot. These are using F3000 spec tyres on a 700Kg 420BHP racing car. Slick running pressures need to be very different to a road tyre and each type of slick construction has its own specific requirements, your tyre supplier is the best source of information on these requirements.
You will see much better wear characteristics using slick racing tyres and will generate incredibly high levels of cornering speed compared to people on road tyres. Taking 10 seconds a lap off your lap time is not uncommon with a skilled driver when going from road to slick racing tyres. There is a downside to this. Firstly, when the limit of the tyre is reached the breakaway characteristics are not as user friendly as a road tyre, especially when using radial slicks (crossply�s are still heavily used for slick tyres). When you do go over the limit of the tyre you will be travelling much faster than if you were on a road tyre, making the impending crash more severe. The brakes on your car will be worked much harder than when using road tyres as the speeds you are slowing from will be higher and the tyre will allow much harder braking before you see brake lockup. Finally and most importantly in my opinion the likelihood of seeing oil starvation on your engine (and gearbox, diff) will be massively increased which could lead to engine failure. With the increased cornering forces the oil in the engine sump will be forced up the outside edge of the engine block and out of the sump where the oil pump pickup pipe is located. This will starve the pump of any oil and your engine bearings will run dry, this only needs to happen for a few seconds to see total engine failure (rod out the side of the block is a good one). If you plan to drive on track with slick tyres an absolute minimum requirement is a baffled sump, ideally you should have the engine converted to a dry sump system to be 100% certain of permanent oil feed. Some modern high performance cars have a baffled sump fitted as standard, if you do plan to use slicks I suggest you do some homework to see if your particular car is safe and has a baffled sump.
| johnfelstead | 11-27-2002 06:25 PM |
and something i wrote for the SIDC to hand out on trackdays
�
�
Some basic does/don'ts of track day driving.
Pre-Event checks
a) Make sure the car is in a well maintained condition
b) Check ALL fluid levels
c) Replace the brake fluid if not changed at service specified interval
d) Check the condition/pressure of all your tyres, Make a note of the pressures
e) Check your brake pads for condition/thickness
f) Remove any accessory's not securely fitted
g) Check the speed rating of your tyres, Make a note of this and never exceed it on track
h) Remove any floor mats from the drivers footwell
i) Remove the spare tyre if you have secure storage
j) Take some rags/swarfega for cleaning your hands etc
k) Fill up with SUL even on standard spec engine, you wont get more performance, just gives the engine more protection from detonation. If you run on SUL normally put 1% octane booster in for safety.
Suggested spares etc to take
a) One set of brake pads at least, front and rear (these will also be available from the Track Support Unit)
b) One litre can of oil
c) Some tape to cover your light lenses
d) A helmet (also available on-site, fee applicable)
e) Some thin soled sports shoe's, aids with brake feel
Pre-track checks
a) Recheck your tyre pressures, if one is down you may have a slow puncture that could blow when at high speed.
b) Increase the tyre pressures by 4-6PSI higher than you run on the road (this can be done free at the Track Support van).
c) Tape up your headlights.
d) Ensure you understood the driver briefing, if you are not sure about any aspect, ask for clarification.
e) Ensure you understood the passing rules in particular!
First lap on every run
a) Never thrash the car on the first lap, speed up gradually bringing the oil/water temperatures to normal working parameters.
b) Gently bring the brakes up to temperature.
c) Use this lap to get familiar with your new, rather alien surroundings.
d) Try and give yourself space front and rear, don't be tempted to follow the car in front too closely as you will be concentrating on him/her and not learning the track.
e) Get used to checking your mirror before and after each corner, you will be amazed how quickly some cars will catch you if you are a track novice.
Rest of laps
a) Bring up the speed gradually if you are a novice, you will learn more.
b) Remember you�re there for fun
c) If you experience brake fade don't think it will go away before the next corner, slow down, it is very likely to be worse the next time.
d) If you feel a power loss coming out of a tight bend back off, don't keep it planted, you are probably getting the first sign's of fuel surge, if you keep it planted you are risking detonation due to a week mixture. Return to the pits and refuel. This can happen with half a tank of fuel on board, don't get fooled into thinking it can�t be happening already, it can.
Last lap in
a) Do a slow last lap in.
b) Try to avoid using the brakes at all to give the disks/pads some chance to cool down.
c) Don�t stop looking in your mirror; there might be someone still on max attack.
Entry to pits/stopping
a) Enter the pits slowly, look out for pedestrians; it is easy to not hear you coming.
b) DO NOT SWITCH OFF YOUR ENGINE!!!!!!!
c) Allow the engine to idle for at least 2 minutes.
d) DO NOT PUT THE HANDBRAKE ON OR SIT WITH YOUR FOOT ON THE BRAKE PEDAL. This stops the pads from being destroyed by the heat sink effect from your red-hot brake disks, stop on a level surface or arrange for someone to chock you wheel.
e) Let everything cool before your check the following���.
Post run checks
a) Check the brake pads for wear, you will be amazed how quickly they are used up,
b) Check ALL fluid levels, you may never use oil on the road; you are almost guaranteed to do so on a track day run.
c) Check your tyre pressures, if one has dropped you may be on the way to a blow out.
d) Check the tyres for wear/cuts.
e) Check you are still not wearing a silly cheesy grin!
Hopefully the above gives you some basic useful info to help you enjoy the day and come home in one piece
Pre-Event checks
a) Make sure the car is in a well maintained condition
b) Check ALL fluid levels
c) Replace the brake fluid if not changed at service specified interval
d) Check the condition/pressure of all your tyres, Make a note of the pressures
e) Check your brake pads for condition/thickness
f) Remove any accessory's not securely fitted
g) Check the speed rating of your tyres, Make a note of this and never exceed it on track
h) Remove any floor mats from the drivers footwell
i) Remove the spare tyre if you have secure storage
j) Take some rags/swarfega for cleaning your hands etc
k) Fill up with SUL even on standard spec engine, you wont get more performance, just gives the engine more protection from detonation. If you run on SUL normally put 1% octane booster in for safety.
Suggested spares etc to take
a) One set of brake pads at least, front and rear (these will also be available from the Track Support Unit)
b) One litre can of oil
c) Some tape to cover your light lenses
d) A helmet (also available on-site, fee applicable)
e) Some thin soled sports shoe's, aids with brake feel
Pre-track checks
a) Recheck your tyre pressures, if one is down you may have a slow puncture that could blow when at high speed.
b) Increase the tyre pressures by 4-6PSI higher than you run on the road (this can be done free at the Track Support van).
c) Tape up your headlights.
d) Ensure you understood the driver briefing, if you are not sure about any aspect, ask for clarification.
e) Ensure you understood the passing rules in particular!
First lap on every run
a) Never thrash the car on the first lap, speed up gradually bringing the oil/water temperatures to normal working parameters.
b) Gently bring the brakes up to temperature.
c) Use this lap to get familiar with your new, rather alien surroundings.
d) Try and give yourself space front and rear, don't be tempted to follow the car in front too closely as you will be concentrating on him/her and not learning the track.
e) Get used to checking your mirror before and after each corner, you will be amazed how quickly some cars will catch you if you are a track novice.
Rest of laps
a) Bring up the speed gradually if you are a novice, you will learn more.
b) Remember you�re there for fun
c) If you experience brake fade don't think it will go away before the next corner, slow down, it is very likely to be worse the next time.
d) If you feel a power loss coming out of a tight bend back off, don't keep it planted, you are probably getting the first sign's of fuel surge, if you keep it planted you are risking detonation due to a week mixture. Return to the pits and refuel. This can happen with half a tank of fuel on board, don't get fooled into thinking it can�t be happening already, it can.
Last lap in
a) Do a slow last lap in.
b) Try to avoid using the brakes at all to give the disks/pads some chance to cool down.
c) Don�t stop looking in your mirror; there might be someone still on max attack.
Entry to pits/stopping
a) Enter the pits slowly, look out for pedestrians; it is easy to not hear you coming.
b) DO NOT SWITCH OFF YOUR ENGINE!!!!!!!
c) Allow the engine to idle for at least 2 minutes.
d) DO NOT PUT THE HANDBRAKE ON OR SIT WITH YOUR FOOT ON THE BRAKE PEDAL. This stops the pads from being destroyed by the heat sink effect from your red-hot brake disks, stop on a level surface or arrange for someone to chock you wheel.
e) Let everything cool before your check the following���.
Post run checks
a) Check the brake pads for wear, you will be amazed how quickly they are used up,
b) Check ALL fluid levels, you may never use oil on the road; you are almost guaranteed to do so on a track day run.
c) Check your tyre pressures, if one has dropped you may be on the way to a blow out.
d) Check the tyres for wear/cuts.
e) Check you are still not wearing a silly cheesy grin!
Hopefully the above gives you some basic useful info to help you enjoy the day and come home in one piece
| fastwrx | 11-27-2002 08:48 PM |
Hi John,
WOW! Thank you for two fantastic posts. I just copied all of your info and pasted it into an email to myself. It will be filed away for future reference in my "Racing" folder.
Thanks again!
Mike
WOW! Thank you for two fantastic posts. I just copied all of your info and pasted it into an email to myself. It will be filed away for future reference in my "Racing" folder.
Thanks again!
Mike
| GoodFinder | 11-28-2002 11:04 AM |
neurotic,
Lots of good advice and points here. Although I've been to 3 driving schools, and I've logged something like 2,500 miles on various road course tracks across the USA in the past couple of years, I'd still consider myself relatively new to the track scene. I've had the WRX on 3 different road courses in the area (Texas Motor Speedway, MotorSport Ranch, and Texas World Speedway) and it does very well. In addition to all the great tips above, another thing to remember is the "red mist" syndrome. Be careful you don't get [I]too enthusiastic[/I] your first couple of times at the track. It's all great fun, and a wonderful controlled environment learning experience, but you want to always keep in mind that you've got to use the car to get to work the next day. My WRX is my daily driver, so I'm in the same boat you are, using it at the track for fun and learning, then driving it to work the next day. Yes, someday I'd like to have a "track only" car, but for now what I got is what I got. Just make sure you have enough funds on hand to keep the "consumables" in good shape at all times (fluids, pads, tires, rotors and such). Enjoy!
GoodFinder :)
Lots of good advice and points here. Although I've been to 3 driving schools, and I've logged something like 2,500 miles on various road course tracks across the USA in the past couple of years, I'd still consider myself relatively new to the track scene. I've had the WRX on 3 different road courses in the area (Texas Motor Speedway, MotorSport Ranch, and Texas World Speedway) and it does very well. In addition to all the great tips above, another thing to remember is the "red mist" syndrome. Be careful you don't get [I]too enthusiastic[/I] your first couple of times at the track. It's all great fun, and a wonderful controlled environment learning experience, but you want to always keep in mind that you've got to use the car to get to work the next day. My WRX is my daily driver, so I'm in the same boat you are, using it at the track for fun and learning, then driving it to work the next day. Yes, someday I'd like to have a "track only" car, but for now what I got is what I got. Just make sure you have enough funds on hand to keep the "consumables" in good shape at all times (fluids, pads, tires, rotors and such). Enjoy!
GoodFinder :)
| GoodFinder | 01-16-2003 12:33 PM |
We're doing a "Subaru Day" at MotorSport Ranch on March 15th. Thanks again to everybody here who contributed to this very helpful compilation of information. I will be sure to "point" the track event participants to this thread to pick up some important tips and preparation thoughts, especially since for many of them it will be their first time on a road course track with their own car.
GoodFinder :)
p.s., here is a link to the event thread, in case you're curious or otherwise interested in what we're doing!
[B][URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=289663]"Subaru Day at MSR - March 15th"[/URL][/B]
GoodFinder :)
p.s., here is a link to the event thread, in case you're curious or otherwise interested in what we're doing!
[B][URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=289663]"Subaru Day at MSR - March 15th"[/URL][/B]
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