| Scooby South | 03-09-2005 09:57 AM |
Travis P vs. Patrick Richard
�
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In your opinion....who is the better Driver and why....
Patrick is known thruout the Suby community as a great driver....and has close ties ...
Travis is known for Xgames and MC racing....who has transfered his talents to Rally with Subaru of America for the upcoming season..
In Equally prepped cars...who's better...
Patrick is known thruout the Suby community as a great driver....and has close ties ...
Travis is known for Xgames and MC racing....who has transfered his talents to Rally with Subaru of America for the upcoming season..
In Equally prepped cars...who's better...
| KC | 03-09-2005 10:08 AM |
Patrick, imho... he's got the seat time.
| dwx | 03-09-2005 10:27 AM |
Yeah Pat has tons more experience.
| TimStevens | 03-09-2005 10:28 AM |
Is there really any question? I like Travis P, and he obviously has natural skill, and may some day be truly top-notch, but as of today there's no question Richard gets the nod.
| Jon Bogert | 03-09-2005 10:52 AM |
ProRally has had many examples of mediocre drivers who get a couple of excellent finishes when driving a top-class car.
| Scooby South | 03-09-2005 10:57 AM |
so now my question is:
Why wouldn't SOA go after Patrick instead of Travis....don't get me wrong...Travis can drive too...but not as refined as Pat...
Is it the Celebrity thing???? does Subaru think that they will get better milage out of Travis due to his celebrity status????
just curious..
Bill
Why wouldn't SOA go after Patrick instead of Travis....don't get me wrong...Travis can drive too...but not as refined as Pat...
Is it the Celebrity thing???? does Subaru think that they will get better milage out of Travis due to his celebrity status????
just curious..
Bill
| Fubawu | 03-09-2005 10:59 AM |
Pat dose not have that much experience. He is pretty fresh
as well. Both are natural talents.What Patrick Richard has done is
pretty impressive!
John
as well. Both are natural talents.What Patrick Richard has done is
pretty impressive!
John
| bjorn240 | 03-09-2005 11:00 AM |
Do I get a vote? :p
| John Vanos | 03-09-2005 11:03 AM |
Pat hands down. Much more experience. And no Christian, you dont get a vote! :)
| Bonzo | 03-09-2005 11:05 AM |
As of today experience over youth.
Give Travis a few years and he will be competing in WRC. He is a complete package.
Travis not only brings throngs of new fans he also brings big dollars in sponsors to contribute to the cause. Money talks.
Give Travis a few years and he will be competing in WRC. He is a complete package.
Travis not only brings throngs of new fans he also brings big dollars in sponsors to contribute to the cause. Money talks.
| Jon Bogert | 03-09-2005 11:05 AM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]Do I get a vote? :p[/QUOTE]1) Do you think TP has enough talent and experience right now to win regularly, correcting for budget and car prep?
2) If you don't, would you say so? :p
2) If you don't, would you say so? :p
| bjorn240 | 03-09-2005 11:06 AM |
[QUOTE=Fubawu]Pat dose not have that much experience. He is pretty fresh
as well. Both are natural talents.What Patrick Richard has done is
pretty impressive!
John[/QUOTE]
I agree that Pat is pretty impressive, but to call him inexperienced is silly. Pat is probably the one of the most experienced active North American driver, in terms of number of cars, number of series, and recent (<5 years) stage mileage.
- Christian
as well. Both are natural talents.What Patrick Richard has done is
pretty impressive!
John[/QUOTE]
I agree that Pat is pretty impressive, but to call him inexperienced is silly. Pat is probably the one of the most experienced active North American driver, in terms of number of cars, number of series, and recent (<5 years) stage mileage.
- Christian
| bjorn240 | 03-09-2005 11:08 AM |
OK, but then Antoine doesn't get a vote on who's got the better looking co-driver, either.
| slickvic | 03-09-2005 11:13 AM |
I can definately see why subaru would go after travis and this is because it instantly give them a ton more fans and would make alot of people, like myself, want to see him race. I liked watching him in supercross and I dont even own a dirt bike so I would definately like to see him drive a subaru. There are probably alot of other people that feel the same way as me.
It's really similar to jeff gordon( or one of those NASCAR guys) driving in the rolex 24hours for the covette team. It brings in alot more fans and support and makes people interested in seeing what he can do.
It's really similar to jeff gordon( or one of those NASCAR guys) driving in the rolex 24hours for the covette team. It brings in alot more fans and support and makes people interested in seeing what he can do.
| MrHorspwer | 03-09-2005 11:47 AM |
[QUOTE]Is it the Celebrity thing???? does Subaru think that they will get better milage out of Travis due to his celebrity status????[/QUOTE]
Yes... and I hate the 5 character minimum.
Yes... and I hate the 5 character minimum.
| Pete 97 GS-T | 03-09-2005 11:49 AM |
I just want to see Ramana back in a rally car.
Pete
[url]www.onalimbracing.com[/url]
Pete
[url]www.onalimbracing.com[/url]
| driggity | 03-09-2005 12:22 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]Is it the Celebrity thing???? does Subaru think that they will get better milage out of Travis due to his celebrity status????
[/QUOTE]
Definitely. Just think about how much attention Patrick would get outside of the Rally world. Then think about how much attention Travis gets. If SOA wants to use their participation in rallying as a form of advertisement then I think its pretty obvious that Travis makes more sense.
[/QUOTE]
Definitely. Just think about how much attention Patrick would get outside of the Rally world. Then think about how much attention Travis gets. If SOA wants to use their participation in rallying as a form of advertisement then I think its pretty obvious that Travis makes more sense.
| Bonzo | 03-09-2005 12:23 PM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]OK, but then Antoine doesn't get a vote on who's got the better looking co-driver, either.[/QUOTE]
I believe your opinion is a bit more credible than our armchair perspectives. :p
I believe your opinion is a bit more credible than our armchair perspectives. :p
| Scooby South | 03-09-2005 12:35 PM |
thru the grapevine I am hearing that there might be a US/Canadian Driver in WRC in select events for 06 driving a Subaru (Factory backed, Not Prodrive)....which is one reason for the poll....;)
| TimStevens | 03-09-2005 12:39 PM |
[QUOTE=driggity]Definitely. Just think about how much attention Patrick would get outside of the Rally world. Then think about how much attention Travis gets. If SOA wants to use their participation in rallying as a form of advertisement then I think its pretty obvious that Travis makes more sense.[/QUOTE]
Makes perfect sense. But I thought this poll was about driver skill :)
Makes perfect sense. But I thought this poll was about driver skill :)
| Scooby South | 03-09-2005 12:43 PM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens]Makes perfect sense. But I thought this poll was about driver skill :)[/QUOTE]
It is...I am trying to figure out which driver "Should" get the seat if it develops...If it comes down to it....I think Pat should, as currently he's the best N/A driver....
Bill
It is...I am trying to figure out which driver "Should" get the seat if it develops...If it comes down to it....I think Pat should, as currently he's the best N/A driver....
Bill
| bjorn240 | 03-09-2005 12:48 PM |
Pat and Travis will be the first to tell you that no such thing as "should" in motorsports.
But if that's what you're trying to sort out, you might be better off asking the question in September, when both drivers have actually driven some events this year.
Oh, and I need to get hooked up with your grapevine, because you sure know things I don't. :lol:
- Christian
But if that's what you're trying to sort out, you might be better off asking the question in September, when both drivers have actually driven some events this year.
Oh, and I need to get hooked up with your grapevine, because you sure know things I don't. :lol:
- Christian
| Subie Gal | 03-09-2005 12:52 PM |
pastrame cant hold a candle to patrick
pat has the seat time
pat has the ball balls
pat is simply... the man :)
Jamie
pat has the seat time
pat has the ball balls
pat is simply... the man :)
Jamie
| FaastLegacy | 03-09-2005 01:01 PM |
Travis P has talent no doubt but I'd like to see how he'd run with an average rally car. He pretty much started out with one of the best rally cars out there(in the US) and really hasn't had to work his way up.
Whether he's WRC talent or not is another question. We've seen plenty of talented drivers here in the US that have struggled to make the transition to WRC or any of the European rally circuits. Maybe in time....
Whether he's WRC talent or not is another question. We've seen plenty of talented drivers here in the US that have struggled to make the transition to WRC or any of the European rally circuits. Maybe in time....
| rallynutdon | 03-09-2005 01:13 PM |
As Christian said, how many events has Travis run (rally)? Not too many yet. Lets see where things stand this fall. As for now, Pats the man. ;)
| WRXedUSA | 03-09-2005 01:13 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]thru the grapevine I am hearing that there might be a US/Canadian Driver in WRC in select events for 06 driving a Subaru (Factory backed, Not Prodrive)....which is one reason for the poll....;)[/QUOTE]
NICK!
Yep, It would be a Prodrive built car like FFSA's SRTF or like the S9 or S10 that Rally Team Olsbergs in using for Tobias Johansson but managed by RED or Vermont Sports Car.
I just have a hard time believeing any NA driver will be on the world circuit with the glut of good drivers out there at the end of 2005. (Stohl, A. McRae, Higgins, Sohlberg, Galli, Hirvonen, Mortl, Loeb, Martin, Gronholm, Carlsson, Duval, Bugalski, Meeks, PG Andersson, Wilks, McShea, Crocker, H. Solberg, Bengue, Ekstrom, Pons)
NICK!
Yep, It would be a Prodrive built car like FFSA's SRTF or like the S9 or S10 that Rally Team Olsbergs in using for Tobias Johansson but managed by RED or Vermont Sports Car.
I just have a hard time believeing any NA driver will be on the world circuit with the glut of good drivers out there at the end of 2005. (Stohl, A. McRae, Higgins, Sohlberg, Galli, Hirvonen, Mortl, Loeb, Martin, Gronholm, Carlsson, Duval, Bugalski, Meeks, PG Andersson, Wilks, McShea, Crocker, H. Solberg, Bengue, Ekstrom, Pons)
| Scooby South | 03-09-2005 01:35 PM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]Pat and Travis will be the first to tell you that no such thing as "should" in motorsports.
But if that's what you're trying to sort out, you might be better off asking the question in September, when both drivers have actually driven some events this year.
Oh, and I need to get hooked up with your grapevine, because you sure know things I don't. :lol:
- Christian[/QUOTE]
Trust me....I know "should"...;)
hooked up...no...just some common sense with some of the people I deal with thruout the day...(some have ties to Sponsorship, as others have "office memo's")....Bits and peices here and there...But I did mention it to one of the Sponsors.....and it wasn't denied...sortof a wink wink nudge nudge thing...
Who Knows...I could be speaking WAY off...So If I am then I appologize in Advance...But then again...I don't think I could have so many 'coinsidences' and " Oh BTW did you hear" things...
Bill
But if that's what you're trying to sort out, you might be better off asking the question in September, when both drivers have actually driven some events this year.
Oh, and I need to get hooked up with your grapevine, because you sure know things I don't. :lol:
- Christian[/QUOTE]
Trust me....I know "should"...;)
hooked up...no...just some common sense with some of the people I deal with thruout the day...(some have ties to Sponsorship, as others have "office memo's")....Bits and peices here and there...But I did mention it to one of the Sponsors.....and it wasn't denied...sortof a wink wink nudge nudge thing...
Who Knows...I could be speaking WAY off...So If I am then I appologize in Advance...But then again...I don't think I could have so many 'coinsidences' and " Oh BTW did you hear" things...
Bill
| skuttledude | 03-09-2005 01:51 PM |
Put Travis in there for show/press. Put Pat in the to give the veteran WRC drivers something to be scared of.
Might vote is 100% for Pat.
Might vote is 100% for Pat.
| joey1313 | 03-09-2005 01:54 PM |
To heck with both of em.....I should get the sponsored ride...LOL
| Scooby South | 03-09-2005 02:30 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]NICK!
the glut of good drivers out there at the end of 2005. (Stohl, A. McRae, Higgins, Sohlberg, Galli, Hirvonen, Mortl, Loeb, Martin, Gronholm, Carlsson, Duval, Bugalski, Meeks, PG Andersson, Wilks, McShea, Crocker, H. Solberg, Bengue, Ekstrom, Pons)[/QUOTE]
Well if thats the case with all "those" good drivers...Why did Subaru go with a relativly unk in the 2nd car this year....
$$$ has something to do with it I am sure...But I also think Subaru likes to bring up and coming drivers up to showcase the main driver...(Petter)... and hopefully make the Unk driver better to take over the reins when(if) Petter retires or leaves...
Bill
the glut of good drivers out there at the end of 2005. (Stohl, A. McRae, Higgins, Sohlberg, Galli, Hirvonen, Mortl, Loeb, Martin, Gronholm, Carlsson, Duval, Bugalski, Meeks, PG Andersson, Wilks, McShea, Crocker, H. Solberg, Bengue, Ekstrom, Pons)[/QUOTE]
Well if thats the case with all "those" good drivers...Why did Subaru go with a relativly unk in the 2nd car this year....
$$$ has something to do with it I am sure...But I also think Subaru likes to bring up and coming drivers up to showcase the main driver...(Petter)... and hopefully make the Unk driver better to take over the reins when(if) Petter retires or leaves...
Bill
| Bonzo | 03-09-2005 02:31 PM |
[QUOTE=Subie Gal]pastrame cant hold a candle to patrick
pat has the seat time
pat has the ball balls
pat is simply... the man :)
Jamie[/QUOTE]
I will never argue about Pat's balls, (hmm that kinda sounds funny) :p especially after witnessing him launch into low orbit over the paved yump at LSPR a few years ago. :eek: However one also has to agree Travis has a pretty big pair himself for what he has accomplished in the air.
:)
pat has the seat time
pat has the ball balls
pat is simply... the man :)
Jamie[/QUOTE]
I will never argue about Pat's balls, (hmm that kinda sounds funny) :p especially after witnessing him launch into low orbit over the paved yump at LSPR a few years ago. :eek: However one also has to agree Travis has a pretty big pair himself for what he has accomplished in the air.
:)
| Tensen | 03-09-2005 05:44 PM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]Do I get a vote? :p[/QUOTE]
no.
:)
(nice to meet/talk to you this weekend, btw!)
no.
:)
(nice to meet/talk to you this weekend, btw!)
| patr | 03-10-2005 02:30 AM |
gee I'm away for a few days and I see this ? *** ?!? weird.
anyways, thanks for the props from some of you, but here's my semi-jaded stance on this for everyone:
1) I would relish ANY opportunity to get in the same, equal car, as someone else, and battle it out on the stages, against anyone - be it Stig, Ramana, Lauchlin, Antoine, Erickson, etc. Not because I think I would beat them, but more because I want to know myself, prove to myself, learn if I get beat, etc. I think its the same for any driver.
2) That being said, even within the same team, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to ever be in that situation. Even if the cars are 'identical', setups, test time, tires, fuel, all that stuff matters. So reality is, that never happens. And then you get differing teams with budgets and it all goes from there.
3) So the cars are never equal, and you make the best of it, with what you have.
it would be great for the sport for a North American to earn the opportunity to drive a decent spec top level WRC car. It would be great for the sport for a North American to earn the opportunity to drive a decent spec GrpN/S1600/GrpA car as well ! Would it be hurtful to the sport for someone to do that and then get creamed ? Tobias, driving the Osbergs car, for xample, I have shared 2 of his last co-drivers. I know the history of the sponsorship hunt, getting the rides, their desperation of trying to crack top 15 etc. We talk regularly. Tobias is in a decent car, FFSA ran decent cars with an even better tire hookup. It is compeltely wasteful (not to mention may make our sport look bad) to not have the best team/car and driver in the mix if that were to ever happen. But it is soo much $$ you wouldn't believe, and people here are afraid to take the perceived risks when its that kind of $$. I think Stig's presence will help gauge the NA level to assist with that.
4) way more drivers at the top level are paying into it (with their or their personal sponsors' $$) than you think
That being said, I've gotten on from believing it was possible for me. Ramana was closest of anyone due to his hookup, but it all went south for various reasons. For me, you cant look at PCWRC results to make any judgements, especially given the car differences alone. People forget that the exact same car that was used by DSC in early 03 (Rowe/Stig/Ramana) I drove at Rally GB in '02. SAME CAR. Setting top 20 stage times, fastest Grp n etc. Then I drove our car, against same guys, completely inverted order (when it wasn't broken). Few people remember or even are able to tell, but the drivers in the fights know, who can and cant do what.
In the US this year, we are barely getting by with a car with 40+ rallies on it. We run in Group n not because we want to, but because we have to (contingency $$). I say that tongue in cheek, because others might look at us as big budget, but the reality is we dont rally unless its paid for, and there isn't exactly a huge pool for north american rallying right now. Its like I was saying above, basically, if you are hoping to prove something, you have to do it at least 'semi-properly'. I hope that the car will hold up, because I think at the end of this year we will have accomplished something, if nothing, then just seeing how we fared against Stig and everyone else regardless of the car differences (there is no such thing as excuses in motorsport).
Whatever might happen from the rumours, I can tell you, everyone also has a different opinion of what "should" happen. I've been burnt by serious politics in this sport before, when people's families, lives, and livelyhoods were at stake, by just a few guys who were looking out for themselves. Crazy things like 'special tires for you, not for you' etc. etc. it happens all the time. Hopefully whatever happens, doors will open up for future North American drivers. If anything, that would be the best thing, a lot better than someone having a good time and closing those doors for good !
IMHO the best North American rally drivers live in Quebec and dont drive Subarus (well, actually, they both own Subarus for street, just not in rallies).
Christian we should do a noted event someday then we will see who talks the talk (hehe). Just not in any car that I own so I dont have to worry about the consequences ;)
anyways, thanks for the props from some of you, but here's my semi-jaded stance on this for everyone:
1) I would relish ANY opportunity to get in the same, equal car, as someone else, and battle it out on the stages, against anyone - be it Stig, Ramana, Lauchlin, Antoine, Erickson, etc. Not because I think I would beat them, but more because I want to know myself, prove to myself, learn if I get beat, etc. I think its the same for any driver.
2) That being said, even within the same team, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to ever be in that situation. Even if the cars are 'identical', setups, test time, tires, fuel, all that stuff matters. So reality is, that never happens. And then you get differing teams with budgets and it all goes from there.
3) So the cars are never equal, and you make the best of it, with what you have.
it would be great for the sport for a North American to earn the opportunity to drive a decent spec top level WRC car. It would be great for the sport for a North American to earn the opportunity to drive a decent spec GrpN/S1600/GrpA car as well ! Would it be hurtful to the sport for someone to do that and then get creamed ? Tobias, driving the Osbergs car, for xample, I have shared 2 of his last co-drivers. I know the history of the sponsorship hunt, getting the rides, their desperation of trying to crack top 15 etc. We talk regularly. Tobias is in a decent car, FFSA ran decent cars with an even better tire hookup. It is compeltely wasteful (not to mention may make our sport look bad) to not have the best team/car and driver in the mix if that were to ever happen. But it is soo much $$ you wouldn't believe, and people here are afraid to take the perceived risks when its that kind of $$. I think Stig's presence will help gauge the NA level to assist with that.
4) way more drivers at the top level are paying into it (with their or their personal sponsors' $$) than you think
That being said, I've gotten on from believing it was possible for me. Ramana was closest of anyone due to his hookup, but it all went south for various reasons. For me, you cant look at PCWRC results to make any judgements, especially given the car differences alone. People forget that the exact same car that was used by DSC in early 03 (Rowe/Stig/Ramana) I drove at Rally GB in '02. SAME CAR. Setting top 20 stage times, fastest Grp n etc. Then I drove our car, against same guys, completely inverted order (when it wasn't broken). Few people remember or even are able to tell, but the drivers in the fights know, who can and cant do what.
In the US this year, we are barely getting by with a car with 40+ rallies on it. We run in Group n not because we want to, but because we have to (contingency $$). I say that tongue in cheek, because others might look at us as big budget, but the reality is we dont rally unless its paid for, and there isn't exactly a huge pool for north american rallying right now. Its like I was saying above, basically, if you are hoping to prove something, you have to do it at least 'semi-properly'. I hope that the car will hold up, because I think at the end of this year we will have accomplished something, if nothing, then just seeing how we fared against Stig and everyone else regardless of the car differences (there is no such thing as excuses in motorsport).
Whatever might happen from the rumours, I can tell you, everyone also has a different opinion of what "should" happen. I've been burnt by serious politics in this sport before, when people's families, lives, and livelyhoods were at stake, by just a few guys who were looking out for themselves. Crazy things like 'special tires for you, not for you' etc. etc. it happens all the time. Hopefully whatever happens, doors will open up for future North American drivers. If anything, that would be the best thing, a lot better than someone having a good time and closing those doors for good !
IMHO the best North American rally drivers live in Quebec and dont drive Subarus (well, actually, they both own Subarus for street, just not in rallies).
Christian we should do a noted event someday then we will see who talks the talk (hehe). Just not in any car that I own so I dont have to worry about the consequences ;)
| Scooby South | 03-10-2005 07:35 AM |
:) :cool: :eek: cooooool.....the man himself speaks...thanks Pat...
It is very interesting to hear your words...makes sense....I know it sux sometimes...but if it comes down....I think you 'Deserve' the chance...good Luck...
Bill
It is very interesting to hear your words...makes sense....I know it sux sometimes...but if it comes down....I think you 'Deserve' the chance...good Luck...
Bill
| Geek Guy | 03-10-2005 08:39 AM |
I'm going to second pat regarding the Quebecquois - if you folks haven't had an opportunity to see a really fierce competition, you must go check out some of the races held in Quebec.
Probably the best one to visit is Baie-des-Chaleurs, as all of the stages are close to service and you can hop around as a spectator. In addition, it has what must be the biggest WOT jump in NA.
And since we're talking about pat: [url]http://www.rallyebdc.com/videos/2004/richardC4.wmv[/url]
[IMG]http://www.rallyesaguenay.com/Photos/Site_photos/BDC_2004/DSC_0424.JPG[/IMG]
Probably the best one to visit is Baie-des-Chaleurs, as all of the stages are close to service and you can hop around as a spectator. In addition, it has what must be the biggest WOT jump in NA.
And since we're talking about pat: [url]http://www.rallyebdc.com/videos/2004/richardC4.wmv[/url]
[IMG]http://www.rallyesaguenay.com/Photos/Site_photos/BDC_2004/DSC_0424.JPG[/IMG]
| Jaxx | 03-10-2005 12:23 PM |
wow the most one sided poll i have ever seen ... correctly so
that said
in marketing terms travis is far better known
in driving terms pat can drive my car any day
that said
in marketing terms travis is far better known
in driving terms pat can drive my car any day
| akuhner | 03-10-2005 01:05 PM |
[QUOTE=Pete 97 GS-T]I just want to see Ramana back in a rally car.
Pete
[url]www.onalimbracing.com[/url][/QUOTE]Why? He wasn't really that amazlingly fast.
Pete
[url]www.onalimbracing.com[/url][/QUOTE]Why? He wasn't really that amazlingly fast.
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