| crzycujo | 06-22-2004 11:30 PM |
type of suspension on wrc cars?
�
�
unequal lenght double wishbone/a arm, or macpherson strut type? i know the group n class wrx uses the strut type all around, like the ones sold to the public, but what about those upper class wrc cars?
| Scooby South | 06-22-2004 11:51 PM |
same...just higher end struts...
[img]http://swrt.com/cpimages/520835.jpg[/img]
[img]http://swrt.com/cpimages/520835.jpg[/img]
| afpdl | 06-23-2004 12:04 AM |
They have to use the same type as the production car.
| DrBiggly | 06-23-2004 12:33 AM |
Scooby South,
That looks *really* expensive. :D
That looks *really* expensive. :D
| idrivefast | 06-23-2004 12:52 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DrBiggly[/i]
[B] Scooby South,
That looks *really* expensive. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
true
[B] Scooby South,
That looks *really* expensive. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
true
| DonA | 06-23-2004 12:58 AM |
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/520802.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/520791.jpg[/IMG]
and the gearbox :cool:
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/515127.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/521906.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/520791.jpg[/IMG]
and the gearbox :cool:
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/515127.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/521906.jpg[/IMG]
| crzycujo | 06-23-2004 01:14 AM |
are struts stronger or better for rallying? or is it because it just happens to be used on their production cars? cause on paved roads, double wishbone is suppose to be better.
| Blaze | 06-23-2004 02:10 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DonA [/i]
[B][IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/520802.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/520791.jpg[/IMG]
and the gearbox :cool:
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/515127.jpg[/IMG][/B][/QUOTE]
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM BEEFY!!!!
[B][IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/520802.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/520791.jpg[/IMG]
and the gearbox :cool:
[IMG]http://swrt.com/cpimages/515127.jpg[/IMG][/B][/QUOTE]
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM BEEFY!!!!
| kwh29 | 06-23-2004 09:54 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by crzycujo[/i]
[B] are struts stronger or better for rallying? or is it because it just happens to be used on their production cars? cause on paved roads, double wishbone is suppose to be better. [/B][/QUOTE]
Struts are simple and solid but mostly they are used because the rules say that they must be used -- quite a few bits have to be the same basic design as original. (I'm being vague because I don't really know the FIA rulebook hardly at all)
--Kevin H.
[B] are struts stronger or better for rallying? or is it because it just happens to be used on their production cars? cause on paved roads, double wishbone is suppose to be better. [/B][/QUOTE]
Struts are simple and solid but mostly they are used because the rules say that they must be used -- quite a few bits have to be the same basic design as original. (I'm being vague because I don't really know the FIA rulebook hardly at all)
--Kevin H.
| Jon Bogert | 06-23-2004 10:14 AM |
Strut Porn
�
�
Mmmm, Reiger. Each corner costs as much as a WRX.
[IMG]http://images6.fotki.com/v83/photos/4/43328/1034065/IMG_1196-vi.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images6.fotki.com/v83/photos/4/43328/1034065/IMG_1196-vi.jpg[/IMG]
| Chromer | 06-23-2004 11:44 AM |
So... Help a n00b. Why are these SOOO expensive.
They're stonger, sure, but metal is cheap and CNC machine-tool prices are coming down all the time...
Remote resevoir for greater fluid volume, prevents fluid overheating... A canister and some machining.
Trick valving, presumably seperate adjustments for high and low speed bounce and rebound.
Is it just that the development costs have to be recouped from very small sales volumes?
They're stonger, sure, but metal is cheap and CNC machine-tool prices are coming down all the time...
Remote resevoir for greater fluid volume, prevents fluid overheating... A canister and some machining.
Trick valving, presumably seperate adjustments for high and low speed bounce and rebound.
Is it just that the development costs have to be recouped from very small sales volumes?
| MNbiker | 06-23-2004 11:46 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Chromer [/i]
[B]So... Help a n00b. Why are these SOOO expensive.[/B][/QUOTE]
Can you say ACTIVE control?
[B]So... Help a n00b. Why are these SOOO expensive.[/B][/QUOTE]
Can you say ACTIVE control?
| Chromer | 06-23-2004 11:48 AM |
Ahhh... Development costs through the roof then, yah...
| NeoteriX | 06-23-2004 11:55 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by crzycujo[/i]
[B] are struts stronger or better for rallying? or is it because it just happens to be used on their production cars? cause on paved roads, double wishbone is suppose to be better. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm guessing you've been talking to Honda/Acura guys?
Each of the popular suspension setups have their pros/cons, and even then, certain "inherent" performance "advantages" aren't necessarily generalizable against other suspension designs. In other words, the correct tuning and optimization of a suspension setup is more important than the design heritage.
Just look at cars like the Porsche GT3, and tell me that the MacPherson strut suspension is a liability on it. Or the US Evo which is pulling handling performance figures here in the US rivalling cars that cost twice as much.
But yea, to answer your question, a Mac Strut style suspension has a couple of advantages in rallying. It can be designed with a lot of suspension travel, making it ideal for the rough environments and wildly uneven driving surfaces. It's also a very simple, compact, elegant setup where the struts and other components can easily and quickly be replaced/fixed -- critical when trying to stay within the pit time constraints in WRC.
[B] are struts stronger or better for rallying? or is it because it just happens to be used on their production cars? cause on paved roads, double wishbone is suppose to be better. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm guessing you've been talking to Honda/Acura guys?
Each of the popular suspension setups have their pros/cons, and even then, certain "inherent" performance "advantages" aren't necessarily generalizable against other suspension designs. In other words, the correct tuning and optimization of a suspension setup is more important than the design heritage.
Just look at cars like the Porsche GT3, and tell me that the MacPherson strut suspension is a liability on it. Or the US Evo which is pulling handling performance figures here in the US rivalling cars that cost twice as much.
But yea, to answer your question, a Mac Strut style suspension has a couple of advantages in rallying. It can be designed with a lot of suspension travel, making it ideal for the rough environments and wildly uneven driving surfaces. It's also a very simple, compact, elegant setup where the struts and other components can easily and quickly be replaced/fixed -- critical when trying to stay within the pit time constraints in WRC.
| afpdl | 06-23-2004 12:00 PM |
The only pro that I can think of for mac struts on tarmac is packaging.
| Scooby South | 06-23-2004 12:09 PM |
The Sachs units are about $4000-5000 a corner/Active Control/Motul or Sicoline fluid/ Rebuildable and are rebuilt every race/and probably have to unobtainium type metal in them...
Bill
Bill
| bigcale | 06-23-2004 01:20 PM |
the struts are pricey but that gearbox is $500,000:eek:
| Scooby South | 06-23-2004 01:21 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bigcale[/i]
[B] the struts are pricey but that gearbox is $500,000:eek: [/B][/QUOTE]
or you can "RENT" it for 25k a year...from Prodrive
Bill
[B] the struts are pricey but that gearbox is $500,000:eek: [/B][/QUOTE]
or you can "RENT" it for 25k a year...from Prodrive
Bill
| dwx | 06-23-2004 02:06 PM |
The last time Simon Lines posted a price the gearbox was $75k for last years model. The whole car is probably $500k...
| bigcale | 06-23-2004 02:24 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scooby South [/i]
[B]or you can "RENT" it for 25k a year...from Prodrive
Bill [/B][/QUOTE]
is that for the group n or the wrc level car?
[B]or you can "RENT" it for 25k a year...from Prodrive
Bill [/B][/QUOTE]
is that for the group n or the wrc level car?
| Scooby South | 06-23-2004 02:31 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bigcale[/i]
[B] is that for the group n or the wrc level car? [/B][/QUOTE]
WRC Sequential 6 speed with ACTIVE differentials....
Now that would Rock on a AutoX course...;)
Bill
[B] is that for the group n or the wrc level car? [/B][/QUOTE]
WRC Sequential 6 speed with ACTIVE differentials....
Now that would Rock on a AutoX course...;)
Bill
| trhoppe | 06-23-2004 02:59 PM |
How bad do you wanna win SM?? ;)
-Tom
-Tom
| dwx | 06-23-2004 03:22 PM |
The conebasher car once ran the Prodrive $14k dogbox setup...and they broke it. That car was cursed.
| trhoppe | 06-23-2004 03:25 PM |
The conebasher is/was a complete total waste of time money and effort.
See also: POS
-Tom
See also: POS
-Tom
| bigcale | 06-23-2004 04:12 PM |
only 25K a year, wheres that winning lottery ticket.
| PeterJ | 06-23-2004 04:57 PM |
Those are awesome pics, does anyone have any more?
| bigcale | 06-23-2004 05:28 PM |
those pics are all off swrt.com
try this link
[url]http://www.swrt.com/74331.html[/url]
try this link
[url]http://www.swrt.com/74331.html[/url]
| crzycujo | 06-23-2004 08:31 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by NeoteriX [/i]
[B]I'm guessing you've been talking to Honda/Acura guys?
Each of the popular suspension setups have their pros/cons, and even then, certain "inherent" performance "advantages" aren't necessarily generalizable against other suspension designs. In other words, the correct tuning and optimization of a suspension setup is more important than the design heritage.
Just look at cars like the Porsche GT3, and tell me that the MacPherson strut suspension is a liability on it. Or the US Evo which is pulling handling performance figures here in the US rivalling cars that cost twice as much.
But yea, to answer your question, a Mac Strut style suspension has a couple of advantages in rallying. It can be designed with a lot of suspension travel, making it ideal for the rough environments and wildly uneven driving surfaces. It's also a very simple, compact, elegant setup where the struts and other components can easily and quickly be replaced/fixed -- critical when trying to stay within the pit time constraints in WRC. [/B][/QUOTE]
no, i didnt talk to honda/acura guys, i just new about different suspensions. im sure there are strut suspensions that perform just as good as double wishbone ones, but generally the unequal length double wishbone design is favored for better overall perfromance. the evo and 911 use macpherson struts on the front only. the wrx uses struts all around. good suspensions have low weight, low rebound, with linear chamber change. strut suspensions tend to get slight positive chamber when compressed all the way, and this causes loss of grip, the bottom part of the wheel tilts in slightly. double wishbone suspensions usually have a more linear chamber change. also double wishbone suspensions are said to have a better ride/handling combination, and provide more confident, smoother steering. this doesnt mean cars with double wishbone will handle better than cars with struts, but its gonnna require more to make strut suspensions perform just as good, like dialing in more negative chamber.
[B]I'm guessing you've been talking to Honda/Acura guys?
Each of the popular suspension setups have their pros/cons, and even then, certain "inherent" performance "advantages" aren't necessarily generalizable against other suspension designs. In other words, the correct tuning and optimization of a suspension setup is more important than the design heritage.
Just look at cars like the Porsche GT3, and tell me that the MacPherson strut suspension is a liability on it. Or the US Evo which is pulling handling performance figures here in the US rivalling cars that cost twice as much.
But yea, to answer your question, a Mac Strut style suspension has a couple of advantages in rallying. It can be designed with a lot of suspension travel, making it ideal for the rough environments and wildly uneven driving surfaces. It's also a very simple, compact, elegant setup where the struts and other components can easily and quickly be replaced/fixed -- critical when trying to stay within the pit time constraints in WRC. [/B][/QUOTE]
no, i didnt talk to honda/acura guys, i just new about different suspensions. im sure there are strut suspensions that perform just as good as double wishbone ones, but generally the unequal length double wishbone design is favored for better overall perfromance. the evo and 911 use macpherson struts on the front only. the wrx uses struts all around. good suspensions have low weight, low rebound, with linear chamber change. strut suspensions tend to get slight positive chamber when compressed all the way, and this causes loss of grip, the bottom part of the wheel tilts in slightly. double wishbone suspensions usually have a more linear chamber change. also double wishbone suspensions are said to have a better ride/handling combination, and provide more confident, smoother steering. this doesnt mean cars with double wishbone will handle better than cars with struts, but its gonnna require more to make strut suspensions perform just as good, like dialing in more negative chamber.
| jprowland | 06-23-2004 08:33 PM |
You can buy a Subaru WRC off the shelf.
[url]http://www.prodrive.com/default2.asp?M=368[/url]
If you have to ask, you can't afford it...
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-driver, Wazoo Racing Subaru Impreza WRX, Production GT Class
[url]http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland[/url]
[url]http://www.prodrive.com/default2.asp?M=368[/url]
If you have to ask, you can't afford it...
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-driver, Wazoo Racing Subaru Impreza WRX, Production GT Class
[url]http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland[/url]
| Patrick L | 06-24-2004 01:14 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]How bad do you wanna win SM?? ;)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
probably not legal for SM.
I would love to see one take a stripped down Pro-Rally car from last year and run it in Prepared.
[B]How bad do you wanna win SM?? ;)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
probably not legal for SM.
I would love to see one take a stripped down Pro-Rally car from last year and run it in Prepared.
| trhoppe | 06-24-2004 10:14 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jprowland[/i]
[B] You can buy a Subaru WRC off the shelf.
[url]http://www.prodrive.com/default2.asp?M=368[/url]
If you have to ask, you can't afford it...
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-driver, Wazoo Racing Subaru Impreza WRX, Production GT Class
[url]http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
"Spark plugs: NGK"
Sweeet! My car has something in common with the WRC car :lol:
-Tom
[B] You can buy a Subaru WRC off the shelf.
[url]http://www.prodrive.com/default2.asp?M=368[/url]
If you have to ask, you can't afford it...
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-driver, Wazoo Racing Subaru Impreza WRX, Production GT Class
[url]http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
"Spark plugs: NGK"
Sweeet! My car has something in common with the WRC car :lol:
-Tom
| Scooby South | 06-24-2004 11:02 AM |
I would Love to see a WRC Subaru at a National tour or the finals...With Petter driving too.....The Look on peoples faces when he FTD's over the A-mod Guys would be priceless....:lol: :lol: And the Guy in the EP Mustang...
Bill
Bill
| XT6Wagon | 06-24-2004 01:18 PM |
Sure its legal for SM. only the engine block has to be from subaru.
| orbit03 | 06-24-2004 01:33 PM |
I wonder how a WRC would really do in solo or Pro Solo
| DonA | 06-24-2004 01:50 PM |
3.5bar @ 2500 :eek:
435 lb ft @ 3500 rpm :banana:
Anti-lag would be an interesting mod for AutoX
435 lb ft @ 3500 rpm :banana:
Anti-lag would be an interesting mod for AutoX
| orbit03 | 06-24-2004 02:44 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DonA[/i]
[B] 3.5bar @ 2500 :eek:
435 lb ft @ 3500 rpm :banana:
Anti-lag would be an interesting mod for AutoX [/B][/QUOTE]
I think it would be a hoot. I've thought about this in the past. It would be especially cool if the car looked knda sleeper. :) Roll up to the line (people thinking, "why is that car in SM?"), flag drops and all hell breaks loose! :) Popping, banging, insta-shifts, etc. That would be totally fun.
:banana:
[B] 3.5bar @ 2500 :eek:
435 lb ft @ 3500 rpm :banana:
Anti-lag would be an interesting mod for AutoX [/B][/QUOTE]
I think it would be a hoot. I've thought about this in the past. It would be especially cool if the car looked knda sleeper. :) Roll up to the line (people thinking, "why is that car in SM?"), flag drops and all hell breaks loose! :) Popping, banging, insta-shifts, etc. That would be totally fun.
:banana:
| bigcale | 06-24-2004 04:03 PM |
good tint job and some stock body panels and you could drive one killer sleeper:lol:
| trhoppe | 06-24-2004 10:14 PM |
Speaking of double wishbone vs. mcpherson strut.
Here are two data charts of a jaguar double wishbone as compared to a stock WRX front suspension as far as front camber is concerned.
Jaguar
Starts at -0.5 static camber at 0 bump
SusProg3D jaguar.s3d Front Roll and bump
Chassis roll values calculated every 1.00 degrees. Right hand turn.
Semi dynamic roll centre. Roll starts at 0.787 bump.
Toe variation has NOT been calculated.
Outer wheel (LH) roll centre
camber caster kpi scrub tramp toein offset height fvsax
0.00 roll [b] -1.66[/b] 5.14 11.483 0.084 0.012 0.039 0.000 2.441 37.700
1.00 roll [b] -1.41[/b] 5.21 11.231 0.083 0.019 0.039 -1.364 2.442 36.293
2.00 roll [b] -1.19[/b] 5.28 11.008 0.080 0.027 0.039 -2.692 2.447 34.913
3.00 roll [b] -0.99[/b] 5.35 10.816 0.075 0.034 0.039 -3.950 2.456 33.562
4.00 roll [b] -0.83[/b] 5.42 10.657 0.069 0.041 0.039 -5.110 2.472 32.243
5.00 roll [b] -0.71[/b] 5.49 10.531 0.062 0.048 0.039 -6.147 2.496 30.956
6.00 roll [b] -0.62[/b] 5.56 10.443 0.053 0.055 0.039 -7.042 2.532 29.704
7.00 roll [b] -0.56[/b] 5.62 10.392 0.044 0.061 0.039 -7.784 2.583 28.488
8.00 roll [b] -0.55[/b] 5.68 10.381 0.034 0.067 0.039 -8.370 2.650 27.310
-----------------------------------
-1.0 static camber at 0 bump (stock) :eek:
SusProg3D Subaru.s3d Front Roll and bump
Chassis roll values calculated every 1.00 degrees. Right hand turn.
Semi dynamic roll centre. Roll starts at 0.787 bump.
Outer wheel (LH) roll centre
camber caster kpi scrub tramp toein offset height fvsax
0.00 roll [b]-1.68[/b] 5.18 15.000 0.129 0.011 0.000 0.000 3.586 70.413
1.00 roll [b]-1.06[/b] 5.28 14.358 0.123 0.018 0.000 -5.203 3.447 75.677
2.00 roll [b]-0.41[/b] 5.37 13.686 0.108 0.025 0.001 -10.530 3.022 82.382
3.00 roll [b]0.27[/b] 5.48 12.981 0.087 0.033 0.003 -16.115 2.287 91.219
4.00 roll [b]0.98[/b] 5.59 12.240 0.065 0.040 0.007 -22.126 1.199 103.397
5.00 roll [b]1.74[/b] 5.70 11.461 0.049 0.047 0.012 -28.782 -0.316 121.248
6.00 roll [b]2.53[/b] 5.83 10.639 0.045 0.054 0.020 -36.402 -2.376 149.933
7.00 roll [b]3.36[/b] 5.96 9.771 0.061 0.061 0.031 -45.479 -5.172 203.574
8.00 roll [b]4.25[/b] 6.10 8.850 0.109 0.068 0.046 -56.835 -9.033 339.694
Double Wishbone > Mcpherson Strut for asphalt
-Tom
Here are two data charts of a jaguar double wishbone as compared to a stock WRX front suspension as far as front camber is concerned.
Jaguar
Starts at -0.5 static camber at 0 bump
SusProg3D jaguar.s3d Front Roll and bump
Chassis roll values calculated every 1.00 degrees. Right hand turn.
Semi dynamic roll centre. Roll starts at 0.787 bump.
Toe variation has NOT been calculated.
Outer wheel (LH) roll centre
camber caster kpi scrub tramp toein offset height fvsax
0.00 roll [b] -1.66[/b] 5.14 11.483 0.084 0.012 0.039 0.000 2.441 37.700
1.00 roll [b] -1.41[/b] 5.21 11.231 0.083 0.019 0.039 -1.364 2.442 36.293
2.00 roll [b] -1.19[/b] 5.28 11.008 0.080 0.027 0.039 -2.692 2.447 34.913
3.00 roll [b] -0.99[/b] 5.35 10.816 0.075 0.034 0.039 -3.950 2.456 33.562
4.00 roll [b] -0.83[/b] 5.42 10.657 0.069 0.041 0.039 -5.110 2.472 32.243
5.00 roll [b] -0.71[/b] 5.49 10.531 0.062 0.048 0.039 -6.147 2.496 30.956
6.00 roll [b] -0.62[/b] 5.56 10.443 0.053 0.055 0.039 -7.042 2.532 29.704
7.00 roll [b] -0.56[/b] 5.62 10.392 0.044 0.061 0.039 -7.784 2.583 28.488
8.00 roll [b] -0.55[/b] 5.68 10.381 0.034 0.067 0.039 -8.370 2.650 27.310
-----------------------------------
-1.0 static camber at 0 bump (stock) :eek:
SusProg3D Subaru.s3d Front Roll and bump
Chassis roll values calculated every 1.00 degrees. Right hand turn.
Semi dynamic roll centre. Roll starts at 0.787 bump.
Outer wheel (LH) roll centre
camber caster kpi scrub tramp toein offset height fvsax
0.00 roll [b]-1.68[/b] 5.18 15.000 0.129 0.011 0.000 0.000 3.586 70.413
1.00 roll [b]-1.06[/b] 5.28 14.358 0.123 0.018 0.000 -5.203 3.447 75.677
2.00 roll [b]-0.41[/b] 5.37 13.686 0.108 0.025 0.001 -10.530 3.022 82.382
3.00 roll [b]0.27[/b] 5.48 12.981 0.087 0.033 0.003 -16.115 2.287 91.219
4.00 roll [b]0.98[/b] 5.59 12.240 0.065 0.040 0.007 -22.126 1.199 103.397
5.00 roll [b]1.74[/b] 5.70 11.461 0.049 0.047 0.012 -28.782 -0.316 121.248
6.00 roll [b]2.53[/b] 5.83 10.639 0.045 0.054 0.020 -36.402 -2.376 149.933
7.00 roll [b]3.36[/b] 5.96 9.771 0.061 0.061 0.031 -45.479 -5.172 203.574
8.00 roll [b]4.25[/b] 6.10 8.850 0.109 0.068 0.046 -56.835 -9.033 339.694
Double Wishbone > Mcpherson Strut for asphalt
-Tom
| MNbiker | 06-25-2004 09:56 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scooby South [/i]
[B]I would Love to see a WRC Subaru at a National tour or the finals...With Petter driving too.....The Look on peoples faces when he FTD's over the A-mod Guys would be priceless....:lol: :lol: And the Guy in the EP Mustang...
Bill [/B][/QUOTE]
It would be fun.:D
However, there's no way on Earth a WRC Subaru would stand a chance in hell against a well driven A-Mod car. LIke comparing apples & kumquats....
[B]I would Love to see a WRC Subaru at a National tour or the finals...With Petter driving too.....The Look on peoples faces when he FTD's over the A-mod Guys would be priceless....:lol: :lol: And the Guy in the EP Mustang...
Bill [/B][/QUOTE]
It would be fun.:D
However, there's no way on Earth a WRC Subaru would stand a chance in hell against a well driven A-Mod car. LIke comparing apples & kumquats....
| NeoteriX | 06-25-2004 11:22 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B]
-1.0 static camber at 0 bump (stock) :eek:
SusProg3D Subaru.s3d Front Roll and bump
Chassis roll values calculated every 1.00 degrees. Right hand turn.
Semi dynamic roll centre. Roll starts at 0.787 bump.
Outer wheel (LH) roll centre
camber caster kpi scrub tramp toein offset height fvsax
0.00 roll [b]-1.68[/b] 5.18 15.000 0.129 0.011 0.000 0.000 3.586 70.413
1.00 roll [b]-1.06[/b] 5.28 14.358 0.123 0.018 0.000 -5.203 3.447 75.677
2.00 roll [b]-0.41[/b] 5.37 13.686 0.108 0.025 0.001 -10.530 3.022 82.382
3.00 roll [b]0.27[/b] 5.48 12.981 0.087 0.033 0.003 -16.115 2.287 91.219
4.00 roll [b]0.98[/b] 5.59 12.240 0.065 0.040 0.007 -22.126 1.199 103.397
5.00 roll [b]1.74[/b] 5.70 11.461 0.049 0.047 0.012 -28.782 -0.316 121.248
6.00 roll [b]2.53[/b] 5.83 10.639 0.045 0.054 0.020 -36.402 -2.376 149.933
7.00 roll [b]3.36[/b] 5.96 9.771 0.061 0.061 0.031 -45.479 -5.172 203.574
8.00 roll [b]4.25[/b] 6.10 8.850 0.109 0.068 0.046 -56.835 -9.033 339.694
Double Wishbone > Mcpherson Strut for asphalt
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
That's some pretty cool info... I guess I should have figured that theory closely relates to reality. I shall stand corrected.
So, these "performance cars" that still in general, perform well with macstruts do so in spite having ish loads of postive camber? Is this where stuff like weight distribution, spring rates, rebound/damper, and other universal suspension stuff come into play?
[B]
-1.0 static camber at 0 bump (stock) :eek:
SusProg3D Subaru.s3d Front Roll and bump
Chassis roll values calculated every 1.00 degrees. Right hand turn.
Semi dynamic roll centre. Roll starts at 0.787 bump.
Outer wheel (LH) roll centre
camber caster kpi scrub tramp toein offset height fvsax
0.00 roll [b]-1.68[/b] 5.18 15.000 0.129 0.011 0.000 0.000 3.586 70.413
1.00 roll [b]-1.06[/b] 5.28 14.358 0.123 0.018 0.000 -5.203 3.447 75.677
2.00 roll [b]-0.41[/b] 5.37 13.686 0.108 0.025 0.001 -10.530 3.022 82.382
3.00 roll [b]0.27[/b] 5.48 12.981 0.087 0.033 0.003 -16.115 2.287 91.219
4.00 roll [b]0.98[/b] 5.59 12.240 0.065 0.040 0.007 -22.126 1.199 103.397
5.00 roll [b]1.74[/b] 5.70 11.461 0.049 0.047 0.012 -28.782 -0.316 121.248
6.00 roll [b]2.53[/b] 5.83 10.639 0.045 0.054 0.020 -36.402 -2.376 149.933
7.00 roll [b]3.36[/b] 5.96 9.771 0.061 0.061 0.031 -45.479 -5.172 203.574
8.00 roll [b]4.25[/b] 6.10 8.850 0.109 0.068 0.046 -56.835 -9.033 339.694
Double Wishbone > Mcpherson Strut for asphalt
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
That's some pretty cool info... I guess I should have figured that theory closely relates to reality. I shall stand corrected.
So, these "performance cars" that still in general, perform well with macstruts do so in spite having ish loads of postive camber? Is this where stuff like weight distribution, spring rates, rebound/damper, and other universal suspension stuff come into play?
| afpdl | 06-25-2004 11:25 AM |
Its not that a car cant perform well with mac struts its that it is easier to get it to perform well with double wishbones. With mac struts you have to run more static camber, stiffer bars/suspension to maintain it all.
| trhoppe | 06-25-2004 11:28 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] Its not that a car cant perform well with mac struts its that it is easier to get it to perform well with double wishbones. With mac struts you have to run more static camber, stiffer bars/suspension to maintain it all. [/B][/QUOTE]
Bingo.
Check out the A-stock suspension thread. There I posted what the #s look like with -2.5 static camber. If you have the right spring/bar combination on the car with some static negative camber (or more caster to allow for dynamic camber changes) you will be good to go.
-Tom
[B] Its not that a car cant perform well with mac struts its that it is easier to get it to perform well with double wishbones. With mac struts you have to run more static camber, stiffer bars/suspension to maintain it all. [/B][/QUOTE]
Bingo.
Check out the A-stock suspension thread. There I posted what the #s look like with -2.5 static camber. If you have the right spring/bar combination on the car with some static negative camber (or more caster to allow for dynamic camber changes) you will be good to go.
-Tom
| crzycujo | 06-25-2004 07:53 PM |
the evo uses struts on the front, but multilink in the rear, so the upper level wrc evo uses the same type of suspension? or does the rule book say struts?
| afpdl | 06-25-2004 07:56 PM |
I thought the evo used a double wishbone rear? Whatever the type the production car uses is what the wrc car would use, cars like the evo confuse me though because I have no idea what that wrc evo is supposed to be based off of.
| go go go | 06-25-2004 08:37 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by crzycujo [/i]
[B]the evo uses struts on the front, but multilink in the rear, so the upper level wrc evo uses the same type of suspension? or does the rule book say struts? [/B][/QUOTE]
Stock EVO use front struts and rear multi-link.
but WRC car ditched the multi-link and uses struts all around
In rally, strut type suspention is prefered in many teams because it gives more stroke.
Suspeition stroke is the most important thing in rally, at least in WRC. Also it is easier to change.
They only have 45 min. to work on the car after each leg.
As far as I know, all the current factory team uses struts all around.
Mcpherson strut > doublewishbone in Rally
[B]the evo uses struts on the front, but multilink in the rear, so the upper level wrc evo uses the same type of suspension? or does the rule book say struts? [/B][/QUOTE]
Stock EVO use front struts and rear multi-link.
but WRC car ditched the multi-link and uses struts all around
In rally, strut type suspention is prefered in many teams because it gives more stroke.
Suspeition stroke is the most important thing in rally, at least in WRC. Also it is easier to change.
They only have 45 min. to work on the car after each leg.
As far as I know, all the current factory team uses struts all around.
Mcpherson strut > doublewishbone in Rally
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