| makofoto | 07-12-2004 02:21 AM |
Which R Compounds for WRX, SM ...
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I've served penance for buying my first Victoracers too early in my AX development, I've gotten my first EVO School under my belt ... with my more controlled driving and better suspension ... it's time for me to get off my Azenis and go back to a R compound tire.
Today only one of three STI's and 2 Evo's (SK1) beat my SM WRX time. But I only came in 7th in SM. Everyone ahead of me had R tires.
Instead of Victoracers ... should I consider any other R compounds? I think I'm pretty much stuck with 225/45/17's under my wagon with rolled rear fenders. I don't mind paying more for Hoosiers ... which ones ?
Today only one of three STI's and 2 Evo's (SK1) beat my SM WRX time. But I only came in 7th in SM. Everyone ahead of me had R tires.
Instead of Victoracers ... should I consider any other R compounds? I think I'm pretty much stuck with 225/45/17's under my wagon with rolled rear fenders. I don't mind paying more for Hoosiers ... which ones ?
| Scooby South | 07-12-2004 08:57 AM |
that all depends on your budget...
Hoosiers....without a doubt is the best you can get...new compound...as304's
Kuhmo's....if your on a budget......
Advans....if you want longevity
Hoosiers....without a doubt is the best you can get...new compound...as304's
Kuhmo's....if your on a budget......
Advans....if you want longevity
| DonA | 07-12-2004 10:44 AM |
Avon Tech-R
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Avon&tireModel=Tech+R[/url]
Some say these are quicker than Kumhos and almost as fast as hoosier with better wear, I like them
I have 4 wins out of 5 events on them
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Avon&tireModel=Tech+R[/url]
Some say these are quicker than Kumhos and almost as fast as hoosier with better wear, I like them
I have 4 wins out of 5 events on them
| Silver Bullet 02 | 07-12-2004 10:55 AM |
Hoosier A3S04's are the fastest, most expensive and probably have less than half the life of the Victoracers.
Kumho V710, when they come out in a size for the WRX will probably be the next best choice in terms of performance.
I've heard some decent reviews on the Avon's but according to a guy in our club who has raced A3S04's, V710's and Avon's this year he puts the Avon's at the bottom. May be more grippy than the Victoracer though.
I ran A3S03's last year and won driver of the year (most pax points for 5 of 8 events) for my region of around 500 drivers. This year I'll be lucky to be in the top 10 running on Kumho Victoracers. Not to mention I've added a Quaife LSD up front and the better gearing of the STi RA gearset and I'm still well behind my position from last year. Guys I beat every race last year are beating me in the PAX every race this year on the V710's and A3S04's.
If money isn't an object then get the Hoosiers. If tire wear and $$ factor into your autocrossing equation then the Avon's or the Victoracers are the best bet. The difference between the fastest street tires and race tires is probably around 1 to 2 seconds per 30 seconds of course (my experience is on asphalt courses only. These gaps probably increase on a more grippy surface). The difference between Victoracers and A3S04's is probably in the neighborhood of 0.5-1 second per 30 seconds of course.
Kumho V710, when they come out in a size for the WRX will probably be the next best choice in terms of performance.
I've heard some decent reviews on the Avon's but according to a guy in our club who has raced A3S04's, V710's and Avon's this year he puts the Avon's at the bottom. May be more grippy than the Victoracer though.
I ran A3S03's last year and won driver of the year (most pax points for 5 of 8 events) for my region of around 500 drivers. This year I'll be lucky to be in the top 10 running on Kumho Victoracers. Not to mention I've added a Quaife LSD up front and the better gearing of the STi RA gearset and I'm still well behind my position from last year. Guys I beat every race last year are beating me in the PAX every race this year on the V710's and A3S04's.
If money isn't an object then get the Hoosiers. If tire wear and $$ factor into your autocrossing equation then the Avon's or the Victoracers are the best bet. The difference between the fastest street tires and race tires is probably around 1 to 2 seconds per 30 seconds of course (my experience is on asphalt courses only. These gaps probably increase on a more grippy surface). The difference between Victoracers and A3S04's is probably in the neighborhood of 0.5-1 second per 30 seconds of course.
| zzyzx | 07-12-2004 11:03 AM |
Re: Which R Compounds for WRX, SM ...
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by makofoto [/i]
[B]Instead of Victoracers ... should I consider any other R compounds? I think I'm pretty much stuck with 225/45/17's under my wagon with rolled rear fenders. I don't mind paying more for Hoosiers ... which ones ? [/B][/QUOTE]
Hoosiers are wider than their Kumho counterparts, so if the Kumhos barely fit, the same side Hoosier may not. Be sure to check the actual section width stats posted on Tirerack.
- Steve
[B]Instead of Victoracers ... should I consider any other R compounds? I think I'm pretty much stuck with 225/45/17's under my wagon with rolled rear fenders. I don't mind paying more for Hoosiers ... which ones ? [/B][/QUOTE]
Hoosiers are wider than their Kumho counterparts, so if the Kumhos barely fit, the same side Hoosier may not. Be sure to check the actual section width stats posted on Tirerack.
- Steve
| dwx | 07-12-2004 11:06 AM |
I use the A3S04s and they are great, but may try the V710s for the Pro finale and nationals this year. If you are running a full autox season you really have to budget for 3 sets of tires, and at like $190/tire I hate doing the math.
You may have issues fitting even 225/45/17 A3S04s or Avons on the car.
You may have issues fitting even 225/45/17 A3S04s or Avons on the car.
| Silver Bullet 02 | 07-12-2004 11:13 AM |
The 215/40/16 A3S03's were a great tire for the WRX with the stock gearset. They were wide (wider than the 225 Kumho), lightweight and stiff. Rubbing wasn't an issue because the ouside diameter was about 2" less than stock which gave the perfect Auto-x gear ratio. Considering the gearing benifits I would guess the 215/40/16 A3S03 would perform as well as the taller A3S04. For some reason they don't make the A3S04 in this size.
Just something to consider.
Just something to consider.
| KC | 07-12-2004 11:19 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Silver Bullet 02[/i]
[B] The 215/40/16 A3S03's were a great tire for the WRX with the stock gearset. They were wide (wider than the 225 Kumho), lightweight and stiff. Rubbing wasn't an issue because the ouside diameter was about 2" less than stock which gave the perfect Auto-x gear ratio. Considering the gearing benifits I would guess the 215/40/16 A3S03 would perform as well as the taller A3S04. For some reason they don't make the A3S04 in this size.
Just something to consider. [/B][/QUOTE]
But will they fit the rear of a wagon with Tein Flexes (8K springs in the Rear I beleive)? ;)
I don't know what will fit a wagon... it's tight back there. You might have to buy 1 and get them mounted until you find a set that will clear once you decide on a tire/brand/compound.
--kC
[B] The 215/40/16 A3S03's were a great tire for the WRX with the stock gearset. They were wide (wider than the 225 Kumho), lightweight and stiff. Rubbing wasn't an issue because the ouside diameter was about 2" less than stock which gave the perfect Auto-x gear ratio. Considering the gearing benifits I would guess the 215/40/16 A3S03 would perform as well as the taller A3S04. For some reason they don't make the A3S04 in this size.
Just something to consider. [/B][/QUOTE]
But will they fit the rear of a wagon with Tein Flexes (8K springs in the Rear I beleive)? ;)
I don't know what will fit a wagon... it's tight back there. You might have to buy 1 and get them mounted until you find a set that will clear once you decide on a tire/brand/compound.
--kC
| Silver Bullet 02 | 07-12-2004 12:56 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]But will they fit the rear of a wagon with Tein Flexes (8K springs in the Rear I beleive)? ;)
I don't know what will fit a wagon... it's tight back there. You might have to buy 1 and get them mounted until you find a set that will clear once you decide on a tire/brand/compound.
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
They fit the sedan with about a quater inch to spare between Tein RA's with 6K springs and around -0.8 deg camber. The outside isn't an issue since they are so far from the fender. It might be an issue with softer springs though? I was running a 7.5" wide 50mm offset wheel.
I don't know if the wagon is any different in the rear.
[B]But will they fit the rear of a wagon with Tein Flexes (8K springs in the Rear I beleive)? ;)
I don't know what will fit a wagon... it's tight back there. You might have to buy 1 and get them mounted until you find a set that will clear once you decide on a tire/brand/compound.
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
They fit the sedan with about a quater inch to spare between Tein RA's with 6K springs and around -0.8 deg camber. The outside isn't an issue since they are so far from the fender. It might be an issue with softer springs though? I was running a 7.5" wide 50mm offset wheel.
I don't know if the wagon is any different in the rear.
| KC | 07-12-2004 12:59 PM |
The wagons fenders aren't as flared as the sedans so the tires are close to the fenders. PLus the sedan has a 10mm wider track on either side of the car... giving 1cm more clearance for the tire... one centimeter can make or break a tire fitting, all other things being equal
However, in SM, you're allowed to flare the fenders, right? :) MMM Wagon with flaired fenders... yummay!!!
However, in SM, you're allowed to flare the fenders, right? :) MMM Wagon with flaired fenders... yummay!!!
| dwx | 07-12-2004 01:01 PM |
1 word: Sawzall.
| Silver Bullet 02 | 07-12-2004 01:02 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]The wagons fenders aren't as flared as the sedans so the tires are close to the fenders.
However, in SM, you're allowed to flare the fenders, right? :) MMM Wagon with flaired fenders... yummay!!! [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, you can flare the fenders in SM but I didn't have to with the 215/40/16 A3S03's since the suspension travel never put the fender down lower than the top of the tire. They would have rubbed at full suspension travel but I guess I never got it that far since there were no rubbing marks. I'm pretty sure you would need to flare the fenders even on a sedan if the tires were any taller.
[B]The wagons fenders aren't as flared as the sedans so the tires are close to the fenders.
However, in SM, you're allowed to flare the fenders, right? :) MMM Wagon with flaired fenders... yummay!!! [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, you can flare the fenders in SM but I didn't have to with the 215/40/16 A3S03's since the suspension travel never put the fender down lower than the top of the tire. They would have rubbed at full suspension travel but I guess I never got it that far since there were no rubbing marks. I'm pretty sure you would need to flare the fenders even on a sedan if the tires were any taller.
| KC | 07-12-2004 01:03 PM |
I was hoping my edit would have gotten in before you responded... see edit re: 10mm. :)
| Scooby South | 07-12-2004 01:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]The wagons fenders aren't as flared as the sedans so the tires are close to the fenders. PLus the sedan has a 10mm wider track on either side of the car... giving 1cm more clearance for the tire... one centimeter can make or break a tire fitting, all other things being equal
However, in SM, you're allowed to flare the fenders, right? :) MMM Wagon with flaired fenders... yummay!!! [/B]
[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.msu.edu/~hubbell5/STi.jpg[/IMG]
[B]The wagons fenders aren't as flared as the sedans so the tires are close to the fenders. PLus the sedan has a 10mm wider track on either side of the car... giving 1cm more clearance for the tire... one centimeter can make or break a tire fitting, all other things being equal
However, in SM, you're allowed to flare the fenders, right? :) MMM Wagon with flaired fenders... yummay!!! [/B]
[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.msu.edu/~hubbell5/STi.jpg[/IMG]
| makofoto | 07-12-2004 01:08 PM |
Silver ... going to the shorter tire doesn't require any spring perch change ... correct ?
At our local events ... I never have to go into third ... I imagine with your set-up ... one might have to. I wonder if what you gain in acceleration is largely off-set by that extra shift up, and then down?
By lowering your C of G ... have you experienced a noticeable increase in cornering G's ?
At our local events ... I never have to go into third ... I imagine with your set-up ... one might have to. I wonder if what you gain in acceleration is largely off-set by that extra shift up, and then down?
By lowering your C of G ... have you experienced a noticeable increase in cornering G's ?
| makofoto | 07-12-2004 01:10 PM |
ScoobyS ... you're torturing us! I know you can change the front fenders ... what did you do to the rear?
| Scooby South | 07-12-2004 01:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by makofoto[/i]
[B] ScoobyS ... you're torturing us! I know you can change the front fenders ... what did you do to the rear? [/B][/QUOTE]
Sedan Doors.....and Sedan Qtrs...Grafted in...Not mine..but I wish...
Bill
[B] ScoobyS ... you're torturing us! I know you can change the front fenders ... what did you do to the rear? [/B][/QUOTE]
Sedan Doors.....and Sedan Qtrs...Grafted in...Not mine..but I wish...
Bill
| makofoto | 07-12-2004 01:20 PM |
Are they a direct bolt on ... or ?
I couldn't bear to do shoddy fender extensions on my Suby ...
[IMG]http://images6.fotki.com/v87/photos/4/43793/1098813/QualcommSuby-vi.jpg[/IMG]
I couldn't bear to do shoddy fender extensions on my Suby ...
[IMG]http://images6.fotki.com/v87/photos/4/43793/1098813/QualcommSuby-vi.jpg[/IMG]
| Silver Bullet 02 | 07-12-2004 01:24 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by makofoto [/i]
[B]Silver ... going to the shorter tire doesn't require any spring perch change ... correct ?
At our local events ... I never have to go into third ... I imagine with your set-up ... one might have to. I wonder if what you gain in acceleration is largely off-set by that extra shift up, and then down?
By lowering your C of G ... have you experienced a noticeable increase in cornering G's ? [/B][/QUOTE]
I was running the 215/40/16 A3S03's on the Tein RA suspension with a quater inch clearance in the rear between the spring perch and the tire sidewall. I'm not sure how it would work with other suspension setups.
For the courses in my region I would get to the rev limiter on the longer straights but rarely had to shift to third. There was one course where I did have to shift but I feel like the extra power down low probably made up for the shift time. I don't have any objective data to support that though; just butt dyno.
Running the 40 sidewall gave a really quick steering response (much much better than the 225/45/17 Victoracer I'm running now) but it also made the limit more abrupt. Not much warning before everything let loose. I didn't mind that at all though.
Sorry but I don't have objective numbers on G-levels or accelerations. Its really course dependent. If you have courses that get you down in the 3000 rpm range the shorter tire helps a lot. If you have national type courses with little to no low speed corners then it may not help that much. All I know for sure is this:
Last season:
215/40/16 Hoosier A3S03's
Stock tranny
#1 in PAX for 500 driver region
This season
225/45/17 Kumho Victoracers
STi RA gearset
Quaife Front Diff
Went to 8kg rear Tein Springs
#10 in PAX with only one or two major changes in my competition's setups.
[B]Silver ... going to the shorter tire doesn't require any spring perch change ... correct ?
At our local events ... I never have to go into third ... I imagine with your set-up ... one might have to. I wonder if what you gain in acceleration is largely off-set by that extra shift up, and then down?
By lowering your C of G ... have you experienced a noticeable increase in cornering G's ? [/B][/QUOTE]
I was running the 215/40/16 A3S03's on the Tein RA suspension with a quater inch clearance in the rear between the spring perch and the tire sidewall. I'm not sure how it would work with other suspension setups.
For the courses in my region I would get to the rev limiter on the longer straights but rarely had to shift to third. There was one course where I did have to shift but I feel like the extra power down low probably made up for the shift time. I don't have any objective data to support that though; just butt dyno.
Running the 40 sidewall gave a really quick steering response (much much better than the 225/45/17 Victoracer I'm running now) but it also made the limit more abrupt. Not much warning before everything let loose. I didn't mind that at all though.
Sorry but I don't have objective numbers on G-levels or accelerations. Its really course dependent. If you have courses that get you down in the 3000 rpm range the shorter tire helps a lot. If you have national type courses with little to no low speed corners then it may not help that much. All I know for sure is this:
Last season:
215/40/16 Hoosier A3S03's
Stock tranny
#1 in PAX for 500 driver region
This season
225/45/17 Kumho Victoracers
STi RA gearset
Quaife Front Diff
Went to 8kg rear Tein Springs
#10 in PAX with only one or two major changes in my competition's setups.
| Scooby South | 07-12-2004 01:26 PM |
doors go right in..the qtrs...well thats some work there....not sure on labor...
Looks bad ass tho..
Bill
Looks bad ass tho..
Bill
| driggity | 07-12-2004 01:30 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] The wagons fenders aren't as flared as the sedans so the tires are close to the fenders. PLus the sedan has a 10mm wider track on either side of the car... giving 1cm more clearance for the tire... one centimeter can make or break a tire fitting, all other things being equal
[/B][/QUOTE]
Are you saying that the 10mm wider track gives greater strut to tire clearance? Because this does make sense with the stock suspension, but I don't know if its the case if you use the same strut on the sedan and the wagon. The knuckle (or housing or whatever you want to call it) is the same part number for both the sedan and the wagon so it doesn't effect the tire to strut clearance.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by makofoto[/i]
[B] Are they a direct bolt on ... or ?
I couldn't bear to do shoddy fender extensions on my Suby ...
[/QUOTE]
Not even close to a direct bolt on. As Scooby South said it would take some grafting to make it fit.
[B] The wagons fenders aren't as flared as the sedans so the tires are close to the fenders. PLus the sedan has a 10mm wider track on either side of the car... giving 1cm more clearance for the tire... one centimeter can make or break a tire fitting, all other things being equal
[/B][/QUOTE]
Are you saying that the 10mm wider track gives greater strut to tire clearance? Because this does make sense with the stock suspension, but I don't know if its the case if you use the same strut on the sedan and the wagon. The knuckle (or housing or whatever you want to call it) is the same part number for both the sedan and the wagon so it doesn't effect the tire to strut clearance.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by makofoto[/i]
[B] Are they a direct bolt on ... or ?
I couldn't bear to do shoddy fender extensions on my Suby ...
[/QUOTE]
Not even close to a direct bolt on. As Scooby South said it would take some grafting to make it fit.
| makofoto | 07-12-2004 01:34 PM |
Silver ... Sedan, correct?
40 Sidewalls plus my RevLab Quick Ratio Steering Rack ! :devil:
Hard to believe that those tires make that much difference ... but if they are worth even five Pax positions at that end of the "list" ... they are amazing. How much is it the A3S03's and how much the shorter tire? Since you have the RA gear set ... it must be more Hoosier VS Victoracers ...
How do you like the Quaife ... I can't wait for my clutch to go ... so I have an excuse to get into that area. With my new ScoobySport DownPipe ... and the resulting lower end torque ... I'm burning up the inside tire ... and limiting my exit speed/time. :mad:
40 Sidewalls plus my RevLab Quick Ratio Steering Rack ! :devil:
Hard to believe that those tires make that much difference ... but if they are worth even five Pax positions at that end of the "list" ... they are amazing. How much is it the A3S03's and how much the shorter tire? Since you have the RA gear set ... it must be more Hoosier VS Victoracers ...
How do you like the Quaife ... I can't wait for my clutch to go ... so I have an excuse to get into that area. With my new ScoobySport DownPipe ... and the resulting lower end torque ... I'm burning up the inside tire ... and limiting my exit speed/time. :mad:
| zzyzx | 07-12-2004 01:44 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dwx [/i]
[B]1 word: Sawzall. [/B][/QUOTE]
1 word: Grip
[IMG]http://www.peatpics.com/web_gallery/sub_chlng/heat_two/images/DSC_3226.jpg[/IMG]
:alien:
- Steve Sulatycki
P.S. No Sawzall required.
[B]1 word: Sawzall. [/B][/QUOTE]
1 word: Grip
[IMG]http://www.peatpics.com/web_gallery/sub_chlng/heat_two/images/DSC_3226.jpg[/IMG]
:alien:
- Steve Sulatycki
P.S. No Sawzall required.
| makofoto | 07-12-2004 01:47 PM |
Wow ... what spring rates
| zzyzx | 07-12-2004 01:52 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by makofoto [/i]
[B]Wow ... what spring rates [/B][/QUOTE]
Stiff.
:devil:
- Steve Sulatycki
[B]Wow ... what spring rates [/B][/QUOTE]
Stiff.
:devil:
- Steve Sulatycki
| KC | 07-12-2004 01:56 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx[/i]
[B] Stiff.
:devil:
- Steve Sulatycki [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought it was Stiff x 3? Or were you lying? :)
[B] Stiff.
:devil:
- Steve Sulatycki [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought it was Stiff x 3? Or were you lying? :)
| Scooby South | 07-12-2004 02:02 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx[/i]
[B] 1 word: Grip
[IMG]http://www.peatpics.com/web_gallery/sub_chlng/heat_two/images/DSC_3226.jpg[/IMG]
:alien:
- Steve Sulatycki
P.S. No Sawzall required. [/B][/QUOTE]
and what size is THAT????
:eek: :eek: :eek:
looks mean tho....and how much did you have to raise the car../\
Wow...
Bill
[B] 1 word: Grip
[IMG]http://www.peatpics.com/web_gallery/sub_chlng/heat_two/images/DSC_3226.jpg[/IMG]
:alien:
- Steve Sulatycki
P.S. No Sawzall required. [/B][/QUOTE]
and what size is THAT????
:eek: :eek: :eek:
looks mean tho....and how much did you have to raise the car../\
Wow...
Bill
| dwx | 07-12-2004 02:14 PM |
Yeah I want to move to 265/45/16 V710s maybe, but they are going to stick out in the rear. I think the spring rates I have will be high enough to keep them off the fender and I have a bit of tire clearance, but 265/45 is taller than the 245/45 I run now. Just need to get a tire and check it out.
Are those 275/45/16 Hoosiers? Still doesn't look as funny as Dennis Grant's car with the 275s sticking 2" out the front and rear.
Are those 275/45/16 Hoosiers? Still doesn't look as funny as Dennis Grant's car with the 275s sticking 2" out the front and rear.
| zzyzx | 07-12-2004 02:15 PM |
I'll do a write-up this evening on everything, with more pics. These pics were taken by Peaty at our Kansas City Subaru Challenge yesterday. Event results are here:
[url]http://kcrscca.org/solo/results/2004/20040711-subaru-challenge-results.htm[/url]
Could somebody tell me what the measurement is from the ground to the fender lip (front/rear) for a stock 2.5 RS GC8?
BTW the tires are Hoosier A3S03s, 275/45-16 :alien:
- Steve Sulatycki
[url]http://kcrscca.org/solo/results/2004/20040711-subaru-challenge-results.htm[/url]
Could somebody tell me what the measurement is from the ground to the fender lip (front/rear) for a stock 2.5 RS GC8?
BTW the tires are Hoosier A3S03s, 275/45-16 :alien:
- Steve Sulatycki
| ratt_finkel | 07-12-2004 02:27 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx [/i]
[B]
Could somebody tell me what the measurement is from the ground to the fender lip (front/rear) for a stock 2.5 RS GC8?
- Steve Sulatycki [/B][/QUOTE]
I can get that for you in about 4 hours when i get home.
[B]
Could somebody tell me what the measurement is from the ground to the fender lip (front/rear) for a stock 2.5 RS GC8?
- Steve Sulatycki [/B][/QUOTE]
I can get that for you in about 4 hours when i get home.
| Scooby South | 07-12-2004 02:34 PM |
Mines not stock..otherwise I could help you out
Bill
Bill
| Scooby South | 07-12-2004 02:51 PM |
oh....sorry for the hijack...
| makofoto | 07-12-2004 02:53 PM |
no ... I like the way these threads degenerate into general Suby talk ... :lol:
| makofoto | 07-12-2004 02:55 PM |
I'm using 17 X 7.5 SSR comps, 50 mm off-set ... this is also limiting my choices a bit ... might have to buy 8" Rota Torques ... any other 8" wheel suggestions ...
| zzyzx | 07-13-2004 02:16 AM |
I did a write-up here:
[url]http://zzyzxmotorsports.com/team/[/url]
- Steve Sulatycki
[url]http://zzyzxmotorsports.com/team/[/url]
- Steve Sulatycki
| dwx | 07-13-2004 08:41 AM |
What offset wheels are those and where did you get them? The K1s I know are cheap and would be about the same weight (or lighter) than my current 16x8 Gram Lights.
| Silver Bullet 02 | 07-13-2004 09:34 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by makofoto [/i]
[B]Silver ... Sedan, correct?
40 Sidewalls plus my RevLab Quick Ratio Steering Rack ! :devil:
Hard to believe that those tires make that much difference ... but if they are worth even five Pax positions at that end of the "list" ... they are amazing. How much is it the A3S03's and how much the shorter tire? Since you have the RA gear set ... it must be more Hoosier VS Victoracers ...
How do you like the Quaife ... I can't wait for my clutch to go ... so I have an excuse to get into that area. With my new ScoobySport DownPipe ... and the resulting lower end torque ... I'm burning up the inside tire ... and limiting my exit speed/time. :mad: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes - sedan
Actually its 10 PAX positions even with the addition of the Quaife and the RA gearset. 10 PAX positions is about a half second. Remember though, the other guys went up to the Hoosier A3S04's and the V710's so I may have dropped in the PAX even if I would have run the A3S03's this year. The A3S04's are a better tire but don't come the 215/40/16 size. I think they do offer a 205/45/16 which is about 1.8" shorter than stock but that's getting a little narrow. I think I would probably go with the 225/50/16 which is about the same diameter as stock. Even though you don't get the better gear ratio you get more traction and probably a little longer life. You can only expect about 30-35 competitive runs out of the A3S03's. I'm not sure how many you can get out of the A3S04's
The quaife is awesome. No more front inside tire spin. Less power on understeer exiting corners.
[B]Silver ... Sedan, correct?
40 Sidewalls plus my RevLab Quick Ratio Steering Rack ! :devil:
Hard to believe that those tires make that much difference ... but if they are worth even five Pax positions at that end of the "list" ... they are amazing. How much is it the A3S03's and how much the shorter tire? Since you have the RA gear set ... it must be more Hoosier VS Victoracers ...
How do you like the Quaife ... I can't wait for my clutch to go ... so I have an excuse to get into that area. With my new ScoobySport DownPipe ... and the resulting lower end torque ... I'm burning up the inside tire ... and limiting my exit speed/time. :mad: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes - sedan
Actually its 10 PAX positions even with the addition of the Quaife and the RA gearset. 10 PAX positions is about a half second. Remember though, the other guys went up to the Hoosier A3S04's and the V710's so I may have dropped in the PAX even if I would have run the A3S03's this year. The A3S04's are a better tire but don't come the 215/40/16 size. I think they do offer a 205/45/16 which is about 1.8" shorter than stock but that's getting a little narrow. I think I would probably go with the 225/50/16 which is about the same diameter as stock. Even though you don't get the better gear ratio you get more traction and probably a little longer life. You can only expect about 30-35 competitive runs out of the A3S03's. I'm not sure how many you can get out of the A3S04's
The quaife is awesome. No more front inside tire spin. Less power on understeer exiting corners.
| Silver Bullet 02 | 07-14-2004 07:27 PM |
Hoosier A3S03's on sale for $108 each at [url]www.hoosiertire.com.[/url] That's about a $70 discount! That may make it an easy decision for you.
| makofoto | 07-14-2004 07:33 PM |
I know ... they were out of my sizes ... :-(
| crystalhelix | 07-15-2004 09:46 AM |
Me too.... can I buy the R series and still grip like crazy, what is the difference between R and A compound.
| Templar | 07-15-2004 01:47 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scooby South [/i]
[B]Sedan Doors.....and Sedan Qtrs...Grafted in...Not mine..but I wish...
Bill [/B][/QUOTE]
Going back to that image of the wagon, and the original topic, that car would not be legal in anything except prepared or modified (not Street Modified) because it is not using the original doors. In SM the doors can be drilled for the attachment of bodykits etc, but they cannot be modified.
[B]Sedan Doors.....and Sedan Qtrs...Grafted in...Not mine..but I wish...
Bill [/B][/QUOTE]
Going back to that image of the wagon, and the original topic, that car would not be legal in anything except prepared or modified (not Street Modified) because it is not using the original doors. In SM the doors can be drilled for the attachment of bodykits etc, but they cannot be modified.
| makofoto | 07-15-2004 01:49 PM |
I wonder if one could use the front fenders off of the Sedan ... since one is allowed fender extensions ... :confused:
| KC | 07-15-2004 02:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Templar[/i]
[B] Going back to that image of the wagon, and the original topic, that car would not be legal in anything except prepared or modified (not Street Modified) because it is not using the original doors. In SM the doors can be drilled for the attachment of bodykits etc, but they cannot be modified. [/B][/QUOTE]
SM borrows from the SP concept where you can 'update-backdate' without having to convert to the total package like stock.
I would think that updating/backdating doors from the sedan to the wagon would be fully legal and in compliance not only with the letter of the rules, but the spirit too since the WRX Sedan/Wagon are on the same line (same model actually)
However, since the M3 and 325I are NOT on the same line in SP, no updating/backdating may occur between the two models. :D
--kC
[B] Going back to that image of the wagon, and the original topic, that car would not be legal in anything except prepared or modified (not Street Modified) because it is not using the original doors. In SM the doors can be drilled for the attachment of bodykits etc, but they cannot be modified. [/B][/QUOTE]
SM borrows from the SP concept where you can 'update-backdate' without having to convert to the total package like stock.
I would think that updating/backdating doors from the sedan to the wagon would be fully legal and in compliance not only with the letter of the rules, but the spirit too since the WRX Sedan/Wagon are on the same line (same model actually)
However, since the M3 and 325I are NOT on the same line in SP, no updating/backdating may occur between the two models. :D
--kC
| zzyzx | 07-15-2004 02:18 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]However, since the M3 and 325I are NOT on the same line in SP, no updating/backdating may occur between the two models. :D
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
You'd think so, wouldn't you?
Take a close look at the red Bimmerhaus / C&R Racing 330i in DSP and tell me those aren't E46 M3 1/4 panels on that car...
If that car doesn't constitute a "loose" interpretation of modified fender flares, I don't know what would...
- Steve Sulatycki
[B]However, since the M3 and 325I are NOT on the same line in SP, no updating/backdating may occur between the two models. :D
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
You'd think so, wouldn't you?
Take a close look at the red Bimmerhaus / C&R Racing 330i in DSP and tell me those aren't E46 M3 1/4 panels on that car...
If that car doesn't constitute a "loose" interpretation of modified fender flares, I don't know what would...
- Steve Sulatycki
| KC | 07-15-2004 02:21 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx[/i]
[B] You'd think so, wouldn't you?
Take a close look at the red Bimmerhaus / C&R Racing 330i in DSP and tell me those aren't E46 M3 1/4 panels on that car...
If that car doesn't constitute a "loose" interpretation of modified fender flares, I don't know what would...
- Steve Sulatycki [/B][/QUOTE]
If they are, that's his problem and he's not within the sprrit of the rules.
What I'm saying is that a WRX wagon using a WRX sedan doors shouldn't, and wouldn't be an issue in Street Mod.
--KC
[B] You'd think so, wouldn't you?
Take a close look at the red Bimmerhaus / C&R Racing 330i in DSP and tell me those aren't E46 M3 1/4 panels on that car...
If that car doesn't constitute a "loose" interpretation of modified fender flares, I don't know what would...
- Steve Sulatycki [/B][/QUOTE]
If they are, that's his problem and he's not within the sprrit of the rules.
What I'm saying is that a WRX wagon using a WRX sedan doors shouldn't, and wouldn't be an issue in Street Mod.
--KC
| dwx | 07-15-2004 03:01 PM |
It's another one of those things where no one in SM cares either way. If you want to go ahead and spend the money to graft in 1/4 panels from a sedan on a wagon, you'd likely not get protested for it. Technically the conebasher car from Cobb wasn't legal for SM since they modified the doors, nobody cared.
I looked at the Bimmerhaus 330Ci pretty closely this last weekend in Oscoda, but I'd have to see another 330Ci to figure out if it had different fenders/flares. Bob has fender flares on his SM M3 that are custom done, I wouldn't doubt if the ones on the 330 were the same style.
I have heard stories of Vic Sias's M3 and some fairly liberal rule interpretations. The top running E36 M3s run the lightweight doors off the M3 LTW, so changing doors is definitely legal.
Bleh, wonder if Hoosier has any 245/45/16 left...
I looked at the Bimmerhaus 330Ci pretty closely this last weekend in Oscoda, but I'd have to see another 330Ci to figure out if it had different fenders/flares. Bob has fender flares on his SM M3 that are custom done, I wouldn't doubt if the ones on the 330 were the same style.
I have heard stories of Vic Sias's M3 and some fairly liberal rule interpretations. The top running E36 M3s run the lightweight doors off the M3 LTW, so changing doors is definitely legal.
Bleh, wonder if Hoosier has any 245/45/16 left...
| zzyzx | 07-15-2004 03:14 PM |
Ah, so you saw the 330i, eh?
Yeah, the dead give away on that one is the indentation/crease that runs just above the front fender.
Note that on a stock 330i, this crease runs the length of the fender, uninterupted by the flare just above the wheel well.
On the E46 M3, due to the larger flare, this crease stops nicely just fore and aft of the actual flare above the wheel well.
You'll note that the crease on the 330i in question is identical to the M3.
Once you look at what I'm talking about, it's pretty obvious...
- Steve Sulatycki
Yeah, the dead give away on that one is the indentation/crease that runs just above the front fender.
Note that on a stock 330i, this crease runs the length of the fender, uninterupted by the flare just above the wheel well.
On the E46 M3, due to the larger flare, this crease stops nicely just fore and aft of the actual flare above the wheel well.
You'll note that the crease on the 330i in question is identical to the M3.
Once you look at what I'm talking about, it's pretty obvious...
- Steve Sulatycki
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