| Kostamojen | 10-02-2002 01:54 AM |
Why sooooo many Scoobie DNF's now in Autocrosses?
In the previous two seasons ive been watching auto-x's, I NEVER saw ANY subaru DNF at an Auto-x... Now, I swear there is a DNF by almost every car other Impreza other than me and a couple of regulars!!! (in my region)
Whats going on???
Whats going on???
| Jewbaru | 10-02-2002 02:23 AM |
Re: Why sooooo many Scoobie DNF's now in Autocrosses?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kostamojen [/i]
[B]In the previous two seasons ive been watching auto-x's, I NEVER saw ANY subaru DNF at an Auto-x... Now, I swear there is a DNF by almost every car other Impreza other than me and a couple of regulars!!! (in my region)
Whats going on??? [/B][/QUOTE]
newbs in WRXs.
[B]In the previous two seasons ive been watching auto-x's, I NEVER saw ANY subaru DNF at an Auto-x... Now, I swear there is a DNF by almost every car other Impreza other than me and a couple of regulars!!! (in my region)
Whats going on??? [/B][/QUOTE]
newbs in WRXs.
| Kostamojen | 10-02-2002 03:25 AM |
Re: Re: Why sooooo many Scoobie DNF's now in Autocrosses?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jewbaru [/i]
[B]
newbs in WRXs. [/B][/QUOTE]
I didnt even hit a cone til the last lap of my 2nd auto-x :p
Same with some other folks I know in WRX's/02 RS's running on stock tires... Its not just a "newb" thing I dont think
[B]
newbs in WRXs. [/B][/QUOTE]
I didnt even hit a cone til the last lap of my 2nd auto-x :p
Same with some other folks I know in WRX's/02 RS's running on stock tires... Its not just a "newb" thing I dont think
| grimlock | 10-02-2002 07:40 AM |
I've never hit a cone in Autocross. My friends tell me I'm not trying hard enough. I can't help it that I know where the corners of my car are. Now if I could just stop overdriving the tires, I'd be a pretty fast driver.
Ross N.
Ross N.
| Lou | 10-02-2002 08:10 AM |
Hitting cones isnt neseccarily a bad thing as long as you can put one clean run together at the end. Hitting cones the first run or two actually helps you realize where you can and cant push too hard. I hit cones quite a bit early on in the day which is okay as long as you know why you hit them. After all, you will see plenty of divisional and even national drivers hit a cone or two.
| Orion | 10-02-2002 08:21 AM |
In my AutoX career (all 17 months ans 20+ events of it) I've DNF'd twice, the last time being on the second day at Nationals on the North Course a couple weeks ago.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised it's only been twice. With some of the technical courses and poor surfaces that I've run on I've seen people MUCH better than me DNF quite often.
I wouldn't equate DNF's and cones with bad driving all the time (with n00bs it IS bad driving). There are some people that go out 200% on the first run to see what the limits are and there's a very high cone/DNF probability with it. Of course they realize all it takes it ONE clean fast run and you're all set. I used to not understand this, but after my recent trend of running my fastest on the 1st run for 2 big events in a row (Divisionals and Nationals) I can see why it helps.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised it's only been twice. With some of the technical courses and poor surfaces that I've run on I've seen people MUCH better than me DNF quite often.
I wouldn't equate DNF's and cones with bad driving all the time (with n00bs it IS bad driving). There are some people that go out 200% on the first run to see what the limits are and there's a very high cone/DNF probability with it. Of course they realize all it takes it ONE clean fast run and you're all set. I used to not understand this, but after my recent trend of running my fastest on the 1st run for 2 big events in a row (Divisionals and Nationals) I can see why it helps.
| KC | 10-02-2002 08:29 AM |
Depends on where in the day they are running. If it's their 1st/2nd runs, then they don't know the course and are going off course. If it's at the end of their runs, then they're pushing too hard and overcooked a tight turn.
Heck, just last weekend I DNF'd a gate... I was wondering how come I was carrying so much speed to this corner when I realized I should have been slowing down... BACK THERE. Then the combination of brakes and turning at the same time... causes what? :D
If it were in the beginning of their runs, then I would attribute it to not walking the course enough/or running it through in their heads. But later in the day, if they have a few times in already, they know the course and are pushing harder.
I'll DNF about 7 times a year on all different courses... it happens. But then again, it's not that I don't know the course, it's I'm overcalculating my speed and not looking ahead enough.
--kC
Heck, just last weekend I DNF'd a gate... I was wondering how come I was carrying so much speed to this corner when I realized I should have been slowing down... BACK THERE. Then the combination of brakes and turning at the same time... causes what? :D
If it were in the beginning of their runs, then I would attribute it to not walking the course enough/or running it through in their heads. But later in the day, if they have a few times in already, they know the course and are pushing harder.
I'll DNF about 7 times a year on all different courses... it happens. But then again, it's not that I don't know the course, it's I'm overcalculating my speed and not looking ahead enough.
--kC
| Thug | 10-02-2002 08:34 AM |
It's clearly an FBI conspiracy.
| ChrisW | 10-02-2002 11:02 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by y2k4door [/i]
[B]It's clearly an FBI conspiracy. [/B][/QUOTE]
no, I blame clinton
[B]It's clearly an FBI conspiracy. [/B][/QUOTE]
no, I blame clinton
| wrxmontao!! | 10-02-2002 12:44 PM |
Autocross career = 1 event.......now what does DNF stands for?
| Orion | 10-02-2002 01:38 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrxmontao!! [/i]
[B]Autocross career = 1 event.......now what does DNF stands for? [/B][/QUOTE]
Did Not Finish.;)
[B]Autocross career = 1 event.......now what does DNF stands for? [/B][/QUOTE]
Did Not Finish.;)
| KC | 10-02-2002 02:27 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrxmontao!! [/i]
[B]Autocross career = 1 event.......now what does DNF stands for? [/B][/QUOTE]You get a DNF from going OC. If you have all DNFs, you become DFL. :D
--KC
[B]Autocross career = 1 event.......now what does DNF stands for? [/B][/QUOTE]You get a DNF from going OC. If you have all DNFs, you become DFL. :D
--KC
| Orion | 10-02-2002 02:41 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]If you have all DNFs, you become DFL. :D
--KC [/B][/QUOTE]
Between cones and DNFing I was dangerously close to DFL. I got owned in Topeka.;)
[B]If you have all DNFs, you become DFL. :D
--KC [/B][/QUOTE]
Between cones and DNFing I was dangerously close to DFL. I got owned in Topeka.;)
| jds | 10-02-2002 03:06 PM |
I had DNF trouble in my first couple of events. I chalk it up to the immense amount of input a driver has to process during a run, and my not looking far enough down the course. Once I learned to keep my head up, the DNF's went away. Now I'm just slow.
-jds
-jds
| Achilles38WRX | 10-02-2002 06:08 PM |
i dnf once in a while, sometimes you just push the car to hard, cant make a turn, or cant complete a slalom. the worst is when you dnf and dont know where, happened to me one race last year, my first 3 runs until i ran out and asked the corner worker where i was going wrong.
i hit cones occasionally, last few races, a few more than normal, but it only bothers me when it messes up a decent run:p
keeping your head and looking as far ahead as possible helps a ton!
i see dnfs all the time, imprezas, vettes, s2ks...u name it!:)
mark
i hit cones occasionally, last few races, a few more than normal, but it only bothers me when it messes up a decent run:p
keeping your head and looking as far ahead as possible helps a ton!
i see dnfs all the time, imprezas, vettes, s2ks...u name it!:)
mark
| boxer02 | 10-02-2002 06:17 PM |
the only dnf i ever got was from coming into to a tricky finish a bit hot, and i clipped, clipped mind you - didnt even knock it out of the box- a finish cone.
in the region where i run, you touch a start or finish cone and you get a dnf. i guess it makes sense though, they want you to have it under control near other people and all the expensive equipment...
edit: usually what we get is OC from the newbs who don't take the course walk seriously...
in the region where i run, you touch a start or finish cone and you get a dnf. i guess it makes sense though, they want you to have it under control near other people and all the expensive equipment...
edit: usually what we get is OC from the newbs who don't take the course walk seriously...
| Fred | 10-02-2002 06:39 PM |
At my last event, I had a DNF because I entered the first slalom the wrong way. I forgot to look at the course map again after waiting the 2 hours or so between the course walk and my first run.
Then, I hit 2 cones each of the next two times. Then, I ran a clean run that was good enough for 2nd place STS (on stock suspension + rear swaybar). I was happy with my 4 runs, especially the last one.
For those of you with a "perfect record" - my wife has never hit a cone, either - she always places close to last, though (and we both drive the RS)... if you're not hitting cones and DNFing, you're not driving hard enough. And if you're not hitting cones and DNFing, but you're winning, either you're an incredible driver, or everybody else sucks.
Then, I hit 2 cones each of the next two times. Then, I ran a clean run that was good enough for 2nd place STS (on stock suspension + rear swaybar). I was happy with my 4 runs, especially the last one.
For those of you with a "perfect record" - my wife has never hit a cone, either - she always places close to last, though (and we both drive the RS)... if you're not hitting cones and DNFing, you're not driving hard enough. And if you're not hitting cones and DNFing, but you're winning, either you're an incredible driver, or everybody else sucks.
| randy zimmer | 10-02-2002 07:11 PM |
DNF?
I'm confused...
DNF is pretty bad, like puking a motor.
OC is missing a gate or getting lost.
hitting cones is normal.
Looks like a bunch of confusing terms around the country or something?
rz
DNF is pretty bad, like puking a motor.
OC is missing a gate or getting lost.
hitting cones is normal.
Looks like a bunch of confusing terms around the country or something?
rz
| TheWRX | 10-02-2002 08:31 PM |
Randy, most DNFs happen because somebody completely misses a gate. It doesn't mean that they didn't reach the finish line, more like "did not finish the course correctly". As somebody explained, there are two main reasons why this could happen: Either somebody gets confused by all the cones, and doesn't know where to go (every newbie's nightmare). Or somebody overdrives a section, and just can't make it into a gate, or spins out. In the second case, you can turn around, and reenter the course before the gate you missed, but often people don't bother because the run is messed up anyway.
And I agree, if you never hit a cone, you're going too slow, and you're driving too far from the cones. I tend to hit too few, and have been encouraged by experienced drivers to hit more. I took out a total of 7 last Sunday (4 in one run and 3 in another), so I guess I'm improving. :lol:
On a slightly more serious note: I've seen a few Subarus taking nasty spins in slaloms (once from behind the wheel...), and I think it has to do with the soft stock suspension that we get. When you take too much speed into a slalom, and get late around the cones, the rear end just becomes more and more unsettled. Quick transitions seem like the biggest issue with a soft suspension, and a series of them only multiplies the problem.
And I agree, if you never hit a cone, you're going too slow, and you're driving too far from the cones. I tend to hit too few, and have been encouraged by experienced drivers to hit more. I took out a total of 7 last Sunday (4 in one run and 3 in another), so I guess I'm improving. :lol:
On a slightly more serious note: I've seen a few Subarus taking nasty spins in slaloms (once from behind the wheel...), and I think it has to do with the soft stock suspension that we get. When you take too much speed into a slalom, and get late around the cones, the rear end just becomes more and more unsettled. Quick transitions seem like the biggest issue with a soft suspension, and a series of them only multiplies the problem.
| randy zimmer | 10-02-2002 09:45 PM |
DNF?
See, we'd call that, "Off Course" (OC) and the best way to not do that is to hit part of a cone on the way by.
I don't know why anyone'd not re-enter after an OC and continue unless it was very near the finish, you get a free try at the remaining gates and you may learn something.
I drove a friend's stock WRX a couple weeks ago (with BFGs) and found it much slower to slide it around (after it dried out). I had an arguement with myself 3x during the run to go faster but stuck to the plan and dropped seconds while thinking I'd be laughed off the property for taking so long to complete the run.
No fancy stuff, just textbook momentum and planning ahead.
rz
I don't know why anyone'd not re-enter after an OC and continue unless it was very near the finish, you get a free try at the remaining gates and you may learn something.
I drove a friend's stock WRX a couple weeks ago (with BFGs) and found it much slower to slide it around (after it dried out). I had an arguement with myself 3x during the run to go faster but stuck to the plan and dropped seconds while thinking I'd be laughed off the property for taking so long to complete the run.
No fancy stuff, just textbook momentum and planning ahead.
rz
| Kostamojen | 10-03-2002 03:19 AM |
1 Attachment(s)
This is what I saw that peaked my interest in this (along with how I kicked the crap out of everyone other Impreza [All GDA's] at my last auto-x... On only my 4th time auto-x'ing):
| thechickencow | 10-03-2002 03:29 AM |
I'm a n00b but...
After 2 autox and 2 rallyx, i've only hit cones at my last rallyx. I did manage to hit a cone on every run last weekend though. I do think that I could push harder in autox, but my times have been pretty close to the leaders of my class so far. No DNFs yet.
tcc
After 2 autox and 2 rallyx, i've only hit cones at my last rallyx. I did manage to hit a cone on every run last weekend though. I do think that I could push harder in autox, but my times have been pretty close to the leaders of my class so far. No DNFs yet.
tcc
| Kostamojen | 10-03-2002 04:36 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by thechickencow [/i]
[B]I'm a n00b but...
After 2 autox and 2 rallyx, i've only hit cones at my last rallyx. I did manage to hit a cone on every run last weekend though. I do think that I could push harder in autox, but my times have been pretty close to the leaders of my class so far. No DNFs yet.
tcc [/B][/QUOTE]
Ya, its definatly not a newb thing...
I think its more of a "some people cant drive as well as they think they can" thing :lol:
[B]I'm a n00b but...
After 2 autox and 2 rallyx, i've only hit cones at my last rallyx. I did manage to hit a cone on every run last weekend though. I do think that I could push harder in autox, but my times have been pretty close to the leaders of my class so far. No DNFs yet.
tcc [/B][/QUOTE]
Ya, its definatly not a newb thing...
I think its more of a "some people cant drive as well as they think they can" thing :lol:
| Jaxx | 10-03-2002 12:24 PM |
drivers getting used to throttle lift oversteer? i personally have had 3-4 dnfs from massive spinns at the 3rd gate in a salom
| dwx | 10-03-2002 12:37 PM |
Randy, different organizations call "off-course" differently. Here in the SE WI/Chicago area if you are off-course (miss a gate) it's called a "DNF". I know I did an event down in central Illinois and was calling "DNF" and the guy thought the car was broken down on the course. They call it in as an "off-course".
The best autoxers hit cones and may occasionally DNF. I DNF'd my last autox on my first run because it just wasn't worth it to try and make the cone, my car probably would have spun had I tried.
I'm sure that guy is really glad you posted his autox results on I-Club for all to see... He is probably new to autox and just needed some instruction. I think I DNF'd my first three runs on my first autox, it happens.
The best autoxers hit cones and may occasionally DNF. I DNF'd my last autox on my first run because it just wasn't worth it to try and make the cone, my car probably would have spun had I tried.
I'm sure that guy is really glad you posted his autox results on I-Club for all to see... He is probably new to autox and just needed some instruction. I think I DNF'd my first three runs on my first autox, it happens.
| trhoppe | 10-03-2002 02:11 PM |
I've had my share of DNFs myself. Its usually when I KNOW I can take a turn faster and take it too fast the next time around. "Oops I need to back off a tenth there mmmkay"
-Tom
-Tom
| nt5k | 10-03-2002 05:26 PM |
I don't understand the title to this thread.. Do the cars drive themselves and dnf?
Maybe not everyone was born with superior driving talent like yourself..
Everyone starts somewhere..
Maybe not everyone was born with superior driving talent like yourself..
Everyone starts somewhere..
| Kostamojen | 10-04-2002 01:10 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nt5k [/i]
[B]I don't understand the title to this thread.. Do the cars drive themselves and dnf?
Maybe not everyone was born with superior driving talent like yourself..
Everyone starts somewhere.. [/B][/QUOTE]
You sound like you are defending yourself...
I didnt mean for this to come to blows or anything, I just want to know if maybe there is a reason other than "newbie driver ignorance and over-weight WRX's with too much power on ****ty stock tires" :confused:
[B]I don't understand the title to this thread.. Do the cars drive themselves and dnf?
Maybe not everyone was born with superior driving talent like yourself..
Everyone starts somewhere.. [/B][/QUOTE]
You sound like you are defending yourself...
I didnt mean for this to come to blows or anything, I just want to know if maybe there is a reason other than "newbie driver ignorance and over-weight WRX's with too much power on ****ty stock tires" :confused:
| nt5k | 10-04-2002 07:31 AM |
I guess I might be.. I had my first autox back in september.. no-cones/1 dnf.. came out at the bottom of the pack...
not ashamed of it.. my goal was to be able to drive my car home on its own power afterwards.. :)
i don't consider the wrx a really easy car to drive, especially for inexperienced drivers, the turbo adds a challenge and the weight distro isn't ideal. but i'm not one to blame a car on my shorcomings and with time i'll be able to drive the car correctly.
there are alot of things in life that i sucked at in the beginning then with practice got better at..
I just felt you were being unjustly critical of people just starting out in the sport and felt like the suckyness of other subaru riders somehow took away from abilities or 'prestige'. But i think if there's anything that regulars at autox know it's the car is not king and the driver is who is making the car dance..
not ashamed of it.. my goal was to be able to drive my car home on its own power afterwards.. :)
i don't consider the wrx a really easy car to drive, especially for inexperienced drivers, the turbo adds a challenge and the weight distro isn't ideal. but i'm not one to blame a car on my shorcomings and with time i'll be able to drive the car correctly.
there are alot of things in life that i sucked at in the beginning then with practice got better at..
I just felt you were being unjustly critical of people just starting out in the sport and felt like the suckyness of other subaru riders somehow took away from abilities or 'prestige'. But i think if there's anything that regulars at autox know it's the car is not king and the driver is who is making the car dance..
| lushboy | 10-04-2002 08:02 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nt5k [/i]
[B] But i think if there's anything that regulars at autox know it's the car is not king and the driver is who is making the car dance.. [/B][/QUOTE]
NT5k, I agree with you there whole heartedly. Couldn't have said it better myself. It's amazing how fast these good drivers can finish the course with some POS cars based on good driving skills. Though I must say that having a good car is still a winning edge.
I remember my first time autoX and I had a blast, but I'm sure looked like a dumbass out on course plowing and squealing through every turn in my wagon. I've DNF a few times because walking the track and driving it at 40mph is just not the same on the first run out. Noob, yes. Fun, definitely. Not everyone out there on the course is looking to win.
[B] But i think if there's anything that regulars at autox know it's the car is not king and the driver is who is making the car dance.. [/B][/QUOTE]
NT5k, I agree with you there whole heartedly. Couldn't have said it better myself. It's amazing how fast these good drivers can finish the course with some POS cars based on good driving skills. Though I must say that having a good car is still a winning edge.
I remember my first time autoX and I had a blast, but I'm sure looked like a dumbass out on course plowing and squealing through every turn in my wagon. I've DNF a few times because walking the track and driving it at 40mph is just not the same on the first run out. Noob, yes. Fun, definitely. Not everyone out there on the course is looking to win.
| Kostamojen | 10-05-2002 02:03 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nt5k [/i]
[B]I just felt you were being unjustly critical of people just starting out in the sport and felt like the suckyness of other subaru riders somehow took away from abilities or 'prestige'. But i think if there's anything that regulars at autox know it's the car is not king and the driver is who is making the car dance.. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well the thing, like i said, was that last year I didnt see any of this from new scoobie drivers... I saw a couple of auto-x's with 10+ Imprezas too, and none of them were spinning out. I dont know... Thats why i'm asking! :lol:
[B]I just felt you were being unjustly critical of people just starting out in the sport and felt like the suckyness of other subaru riders somehow took away from abilities or 'prestige'. But i think if there's anything that regulars at autox know it's the car is not king and the driver is who is making the car dance.. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well the thing, like i said, was that last year I didnt see any of this from new scoobie drivers... I saw a couple of auto-x's with 10+ Imprezas too, and none of them were spinning out. I dont know... Thats why i'm asking! :lol:
| Warp3 | 10-05-2002 12:43 PM |
According to the SCCA Solo Rulebook, finishing the course incorrectly is called a DNF and the inability to finish due to mechanical issues is an MDNF (Mechanical DNF) (but an MDNF can be listed as simply DNF on the results).
Of course, this is SCCA rules, which means non-SCCA clubs can do whatever the hell they want... :lol:
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
STS 729 -- CCar Region
Of course, this is SCCA rules, which means non-SCCA clubs can do whatever the hell they want... :lol:
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
STS 729 -- CCar Region
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