| WRXMaster | 10-22-2002 07:19 PM |
Why wont other car companys join the wrc?
From a poll from Motortrend "MOst watched Motorsports by Americans" 1. Nascar 2. WRC 3. F1 4. CART
Why wont more car companys join the wrc? I know that toyota is spending alot on IRL and Cart. It would be cool to see Honda, Toyota, VW and Mazda in the wrc. Will this ever happen?
Why wont more car companys join the wrc? I know that toyota is spending alot on IRL and Cart. It would be cool to see Honda, Toyota, VW and Mazda in the wrc. Will this ever happen?
| RS22b | 10-22-2002 08:53 PM |
Not sure but i hope so. For years Toyota was a big contender in the WRC with the Celica GT-4 and then the Corolla hatch.
AS far as VW i know that they are pretty big in smaller WRC events like Super 1600 and others.
Honda cars are being used more and more in Pro-Rally here in the states.
And Mazda is now a manufacturer in the running for points in the US aswell.
I hope as you do that others will join the madness.
Billyqua
rally driven...........
AS far as VW i know that they are pretty big in smaller WRC events like Super 1600 and others.
Honda cars are being used more and more in Pro-Rally here in the states.
And Mazda is now a manufacturer in the running for points in the US aswell.
I hope as you do that others will join the madness.
Billyqua
rally driven...........
| Thug | 10-22-2002 10:02 PM |
It all comes down to $.
The WRC team's budgets are outrageous.
The WRC team's budgets are outrageous.
| RawCode | 10-22-2002 10:10 PM |
I don't know of many Teams that actually WANT their expensive cars to be thrown along a dirt road in a forest at night while it is raining.
It would scare the crap out of me if I had a 10 million bucks of technology and engineering.
RawCode
It would scare the crap out of me if I had a 10 million bucks of technology and engineering.
RawCode
| erich_sc | 10-22-2002 10:19 PM |
I've always hoped Audi and Toyota would jump in. I suppose Audi is just afraid of their inferior awd technologies being exposed to the world. ;)
-Erich
-Erich
| Thug | 10-22-2002 10:24 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by erich_sc [/i]
[B]I've always hoped Audi and Toyota would jump in. I suppose Audi is just afraid of their inferior awd technologies being exposed to the world. ;)
-Erich [/B][/QUOTE]
Haha. Good one! :lol:
[B]I've always hoped Audi and Toyota would jump in. I suppose Audi is just afraid of their inferior awd technologies being exposed to the world. ;)
-Erich [/B][/QUOTE]
Haha. Good one! :lol:
| ChrisW | 10-22-2002 10:27 PM |
1) because WRC does not involve driving in circles in front of 100000 dumb beer guzzeling consumers.
2) It's easier to promote the [i]image[/i] than spend the R&D $$$ on the [i]real[/i] performance. God forbid we have decent long lasting cars:rolleyes:
3) Competing in the WRC means you have to have a quality product that will beat the performance of the old school V8 built with questionable quality controls.
2) It's easier to promote the [i]image[/i] than spend the R&D $$$ on the [i]real[/i] performance. God forbid we have decent long lasting cars:rolleyes:
3) Competing in the WRC means you have to have a quality product that will beat the performance of the old school V8 built with questionable quality controls.
| ProdriveMS | 10-22-2002 10:34 PM |
Well Toyota was banned for a while because they were caught cheating with their Corolla. I'm not sure if that ban is still in effect or if Toyota is waiting for the whole scandal to blow over still. Honda seems to have a nice little niche in road racing from touring cars all the way to F1, CART and recently IRL. Volkswagen is already in WRC with their Skoda cars. So far it's been kind of a half-assed effort on their part but the rumor around the rally crowd is that VW just doesn't care all that much about rallying. They are doing pretty well without having to win any racing events regardless if they are on dirt or tarmac. Mazda and Nissan would be good candidates but Mazda is controlled by Ford who already has a WRC car and Nissan was on the verge of bankrupcy not too long ago and is still rebuilding.
In they end it boils down to money and what spending that massive amount of money will get for you. In Subaru's case, their company image is centered around rallying. Subaru didn't do that because Rallying is the second most watched form of racing on American TV. But in any case, it would be nice to see some more manufacturers in WRC.
Alin
In they end it boils down to money and what spending that massive amount of money will get for you. In Subaru's case, their company image is centered around rallying. Subaru didn't do that because Rallying is the second most watched form of racing on American TV. But in any case, it would be nice to see some more manufacturers in WRC.
Alin
| mykrrrr | 10-22-2002 11:21 PM |
Toyota was banned back in 1996 or so when the were caught cheating with the CELICA...NOT the Corolla.
Toyota/TTE pulled out of factory based WRC competition when it was announced that they were going into F1 (shoulda stayed in WRC IMO.)
Italian based Grifone has been developing the Corolla since then and the Toyotas are still potent machines in the hands of experienced drivers.
Technically, VW is "in" the WRC with Skoda but it's Skoda not VW. VW runs Polo 1600 in the Super 1600 class. Skoda doesn't have the same budget as Ford, Subaru or Mitsubishi so it's harder for them to develop everything the want. Skoda's motorsport budget is SKODA's budget NOT VW's motorsport budget. They are separate entites under one parent ownership.
Ford doesn't say "we've got the Focus so Mazda can't put out a WRC car." Ford had a share in Mazda when the 323's were being raced in Grp. A against the Escort Cossie. Again, two different budgets/company agendas.
Nissan doesn't have a good platform for a WRC car. I guess the closest thing would be the new Z but I don't think you'll see one flying down the stages of Rally Finland or Rally Deuchland anytime soon.
-mykr.
Toyota/TTE pulled out of factory based WRC competition when it was announced that they were going into F1 (shoulda stayed in WRC IMO.)
Italian based Grifone has been developing the Corolla since then and the Toyotas are still potent machines in the hands of experienced drivers.
Technically, VW is "in" the WRC with Skoda but it's Skoda not VW. VW runs Polo 1600 in the Super 1600 class. Skoda doesn't have the same budget as Ford, Subaru or Mitsubishi so it's harder for them to develop everything the want. Skoda's motorsport budget is SKODA's budget NOT VW's motorsport budget. They are separate entites under one parent ownership.
Ford doesn't say "we've got the Focus so Mazda can't put out a WRC car." Ford had a share in Mazda when the 323's were being raced in Grp. A against the Escort Cossie. Again, two different budgets/company agendas.
Nissan doesn't have a good platform for a WRC car. I guess the closest thing would be the new Z but I don't think you'll see one flying down the stages of Rally Finland or Rally Deuchland anytime soon.
-mykr.
| travmn | 10-23-2002 12:55 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by erich_sc [/i]
[B]I've always hoped Audi and Toyota would jump in. I suppose Audi is just afraid of their inferior awd technologies being exposed to the world. ;)
-Erich [/B][/QUOTE]
hahaa... now, just for that... i'm gonna have to go watch my old group b videos and look at the ole audi car again
[img]http://tucars24.valuehost.ru/big/85audi_s1_gr_b_1.jpeg[/img]
[B]I've always hoped Audi and Toyota would jump in. I suppose Audi is just afraid of their inferior awd technologies being exposed to the world. ;)
-Erich [/B][/QUOTE]
hahaa... now, just for that... i'm gonna have to go watch my old group b videos and look at the ole audi car again
[img]http://tucars24.valuehost.ru/big/85audi_s1_gr_b_1.jpeg[/img]
| Thug | 10-23-2002 07:31 AM |
It's all marketing. The main reason VW & Audi dont run WRC anymore is because it's not their niche market now. Their long term goal is to have VW competing with BMW and Audi competing with MB. Obviously both are on the luxury end of the scale, not the muddy and sideways end. That's why it makes more sense for Audi to run Le Mans.
| Lou | 10-23-2002 11:46 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mykrrrr [/i]
Nissan doesn't have a good platform for a WRC car. I guess the closest thing would be the new Z but I don't think you'll see one flying down the stages of Rally Finland or Rally Deuchland anytime soon.
-mykr. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure the Z is eligable for WRC status because it is a 2 seater. It would be if the Killer B's (Group B) were still around but I could be wrong.
Nissan doesn't have a good platform for a WRC car. I guess the closest thing would be the new Z but I don't think you'll see one flying down the stages of Rally Finland or Rally Deuchland anytime soon.
-mykr. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure the Z is eligable for WRC status because it is a 2 seater. It would be if the Killer B's (Group B) were still around but I could be wrong.
| jprowland | 10-23-2002 01:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by y2k4door [/i]
[B]It's all marketing. The main reason VW & Audi dont run WRC anymore is because it's not their niche market now. Their long term goal is to have VW competing with BMW and Audi competing with MB. Obviously both are on the luxury end of the scale, not the muddy and sideways end. That's why it makes more sense for Audi to run Le Mans. [/B][/QUOTE]
Audi is still riding on its laurels of rally success way back when. They're still running video of rally championships from the 80s in their commercials. Why spend all the $$$ on a WRC team when you've already got the perception that Quattro is the superior AWD system on the market?
It's all about return on investment (ROI) and diminishing returns. I don't know of any car manufacturers that are running in more than 2 major car-based motorsports. Toyota has F1 & CART (or did they pull out of CART, too?). The only exception might be Ford, since they do both NASCAR and WRC and now Cosworth is building all the CART engines (but Cosworth can only be loosely considered part of Ford).
[B]It's all marketing. The main reason VW & Audi dont run WRC anymore is because it's not their niche market now. Their long term goal is to have VW competing with BMW and Audi competing with MB. Obviously both are on the luxury end of the scale, not the muddy and sideways end. That's why it makes more sense for Audi to run Le Mans. [/B][/QUOTE]
Audi is still riding on its laurels of rally success way back when. They're still running video of rally championships from the 80s in their commercials. Why spend all the $$$ on a WRC team when you've already got the perception that Quattro is the superior AWD system on the market?
It's all about return on investment (ROI) and diminishing returns. I don't know of any car manufacturers that are running in more than 2 major car-based motorsports. Toyota has F1 & CART (or did they pull out of CART, too?). The only exception might be Ford, since they do both NASCAR and WRC and now Cosworth is building all the CART engines (but Cosworth can only be loosely considered part of Ford).
| ProdriveMS | 10-23-2002 01:29 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mykrrrr [/i]
[B]Toyota was banned back in 1996 or so when the were caught cheating with the CELICA...NOT the Corolla.
Toyota/TTE pulled out of factory based WRC competition when it was announced that they were going into F1 (shoulda stayed in WRC IMO.)
Italian based Grifone has been developing the Corolla since then and the Toyotas are still potent machines in the hands of experienced drivers.
Technically, VW is "in" the WRC with Skoda but it's Skoda not VW. VW runs Polo 1600 in the Super 1600 class. Skoda doesn't have the same budget as Ford, Subaru or Mitsubishi so it's harder for them to develop everything the want. Skoda's motorsport budget is SKODA's budget NOT VW's motorsport budget. They are separate entites under one parent ownership.
Ford doesn't say "we've got the Focus so Mazda can't put out a WRC car." Ford had a share in Mazda when the 323's were being raced in Grp. A against the Escort Cossie. Again, two different budgets/company agendas.
Nissan doesn't have a good platform for a WRC car. I guess the closest thing would be the new Z but I don't think you'll see one flying down the stages of Rally Finland or Rally Deuchland anytime soon.
-mykr. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes it was the Celica not the Corolla. It was in 1995 however that they were caught cheating. It is true that ford and Mazda were both racing at the same time but at that time Ford only owned a small part of Mazda. Today Ford owns a controlling share(over 50%) so it would make little sense for Mazda to come in with a WRC car when Ford is already campaigning the Focus. Same thing goes for VW.
Alin
[B]Toyota was banned back in 1996 or so when the were caught cheating with the CELICA...NOT the Corolla.
Toyota/TTE pulled out of factory based WRC competition when it was announced that they were going into F1 (shoulda stayed in WRC IMO.)
Italian based Grifone has been developing the Corolla since then and the Toyotas are still potent machines in the hands of experienced drivers.
Technically, VW is "in" the WRC with Skoda but it's Skoda not VW. VW runs Polo 1600 in the Super 1600 class. Skoda doesn't have the same budget as Ford, Subaru or Mitsubishi so it's harder for them to develop everything the want. Skoda's motorsport budget is SKODA's budget NOT VW's motorsport budget. They are separate entites under one parent ownership.
Ford doesn't say "we've got the Focus so Mazda can't put out a WRC car." Ford had a share in Mazda when the 323's were being raced in Grp. A against the Escort Cossie. Again, two different budgets/company agendas.
Nissan doesn't have a good platform for a WRC car. I guess the closest thing would be the new Z but I don't think you'll see one flying down the stages of Rally Finland or Rally Deuchland anytime soon.
-mykr. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes it was the Celica not the Corolla. It was in 1995 however that they were caught cheating. It is true that ford and Mazda were both racing at the same time but at that time Ford only owned a small part of Mazda. Today Ford owns a controlling share(over 50%) so it would make little sense for Mazda to come in with a WRC car when Ford is already campaigning the Focus. Same thing goes for VW.
Alin
| MajinWRX | 10-23-2002 01:34 PM |
because they'll lose
| travmn | 10-23-2002 04:22 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mykrrrr [/i]
[B]Nissan doesn't have a good platform for a WRC car. I guess the closest thing would be the new Z but I don't think you'll see one flying down the stages of Rally Finland or Rally Deuchland anytime soon.
[/B][/QUOTE]
yeah... there's only one nissan i can think of that i would have made into a rally car would be one of the 1st gen altimas. overseas there was a model available with 4wd and the sr20det IIRC (called the bluebird)...
i don't see any current platform they can use now though... although, maybe if they redid the sentra it would be possible...
[B]Nissan doesn't have a good platform for a WRC car. I guess the closest thing would be the new Z but I don't think you'll see one flying down the stages of Rally Finland or Rally Deuchland anytime soon.
[/B][/QUOTE]
yeah... there's only one nissan i can think of that i would have made into a rally car would be one of the 1st gen altimas. overseas there was a model available with 4wd and the sr20det IIRC (called the bluebird)...
i don't see any current platform they can use now though... although, maybe if they redid the sentra it would be possible...
| Rodan | 10-23-2002 04:50 PM |
I would like to see Lancia and Audi come back to Rally.
| Robin2 | 10-23-2002 10:30 PM |
Well, I'll see a WRC ex-factory Corrolla this weekend at the Charlevoix FIA event in Quebec, Canada.... It's a german team who will be competing with it...
I'll take some pics in between my service stops...
Robin
I'll take some pics in between my service stops...
Robin
| Ryouga | 10-23-2002 11:25 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jprowland [/i]
[B]I don't know of any car manufacturers that are running in more than 2 major car-based motorsports. Toyota has F1 & CART (or did they pull out of CART, too?). The only exception might be Ford, since they do both NASCAR and WRC and now Cosworth is building all the CART engines (but Cosworth can only be loosely considered part of Ford).[/B][/QUOTE]
What about Formula 1 and Jaguar? :lol:
[B]I don't know of any car manufacturers that are running in more than 2 major car-based motorsports. Toyota has F1 & CART (or did they pull out of CART, too?). The only exception might be Ford, since they do both NASCAR and WRC and now Cosworth is building all the CART engines (but Cosworth can only be loosely considered part of Ford).[/B][/QUOTE]
What about Formula 1 and Jaguar? :lol:
| ForzaF1 | 10-24-2002 12:06 AM |
Ford spends more on the WRC effort than it does on all other motor sports in the US. It spends more on F1 than it does on WRC & all other racing combined.
| thetopaz | 10-24-2002 02:49 AM |
Nissan has the Pulsar GTiR. AWD, wagon like a P5, SR20DET. I am not sure if they rallied this.. but it would do very well.
If the world was perfect most of the companies would enter cars. I would love to see Lancias and UrQuattros alongside evos, stis and focii in the wrc.
But they wont :(
If the world was perfect most of the companies would enter cars. I would love to see Lancias and UrQuattros alongside evos, stis and focii in the wrc.
But they wont :(
| Dolphin Overton | 10-24-2002 03:51 AM |
Skoda Octavia= VW Jetta
there are already enough cars to fill the stages... more would be complicated
there are already enough cars to fill the stages... more would be complicated
| aspera | 10-24-2002 04:02 AM |
They might. What are WRX owners going to buy after the car gets old? Are they going to convert to FWD pushrod V6 ****boxes? Not me! If they want my $$$, then they'll have to lure me away using juicy bait.
Are there any domestic AWD cars?
Are there any domestic AWD cars?
| Adrian128 | 10-24-2002 04:23 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by thetopaz [/i]
[B]Nissan has the Pulsar GTiR. AWD, wagon like a P5, SR20DET. I am not sure if they rallied this.. but it would do very well.
[/B][/QUOTE]
They did use thse for rallies in the very early 90s. It went well.. against the Galant VR4 and the Liberty RS and the Mazda 323, etc. IIRC Tommi Makinnen started his career driving a Nissan Pulsar (Sunny), but I could be mistaken.
[B]Nissan has the Pulsar GTiR. AWD, wagon like a P5, SR20DET. I am not sure if they rallied this.. but it would do very well.
[/B][/QUOTE]
They did use thse for rallies in the very early 90s. It went well.. against the Galant VR4 and the Liberty RS and the Mazda 323, etc. IIRC Tommi Makinnen started his career driving a Nissan Pulsar (Sunny), but I could be mistaken.
| SCRAPPYDO | 10-24-2002 09:16 AM |
Well platforms can be changed. Who says that a car must be AWD from the factory to be a good WRC car. As far as I know the Focus was not designed as an AWD car from the start. Only recently was it available as a AWD model in the UK if I am not mistaken. Also the 206 is not a AWD car from the factory and its as dominant as the red cars in F1.
I dont know if the Skoda Octavia is an AWD car or not from the factory, but she does well. NO comment on the Hyundia, we know they have not AWD Elantra. So any car can be made an AWD chassis. With the WRC formula, not much of the original car is left anyway.
So with that being said, my wish list would be:
- Audi TT WRC/A4 WRC
- Mazda Protege 5 WRC
- Nissan Sentra Spec V WRC
- Honda Civic SI (it has the right shape???) not sure about this one
- Dodge neon WRC (I hate to say it, but its already doing the job in Prorally, and it has the turbo engine already somewhat developed)
- Chevrolet (nothing comes to mind AT ALL)
- What about MG! They make some beautiful cars now! They have a nice hot hatch that would be awesome
- lets not forget RENAULT! I would love to see an Alpine 110 again!
Please keep it going! I would love to see what your twisted little minds come up with!
SCRAPPYDO
stephen
I dont know if the Skoda Octavia is an AWD car or not from the factory, but she does well. NO comment on the Hyundia, we know they have not AWD Elantra. So any car can be made an AWD chassis. With the WRC formula, not much of the original car is left anyway.
So with that being said, my wish list would be:
- Audi TT WRC/A4 WRC
- Mazda Protege 5 WRC
- Nissan Sentra Spec V WRC
- Honda Civic SI (it has the right shape???) not sure about this one
- Dodge neon WRC (I hate to say it, but its already doing the job in Prorally, and it has the turbo engine already somewhat developed)
- Chevrolet (nothing comes to mind AT ALL)
- What about MG! They make some beautiful cars now! They have a nice hot hatch that would be awesome
- lets not forget RENAULT! I would love to see an Alpine 110 again!
Please keep it going! I would love to see what your twisted little minds come up with!
SCRAPPYDO
stephen
| jprowland | 10-24-2002 09:54 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ryouga [/i]
[B]
What about Formula 1 and Jaguar? :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Ok, so Ford inherited the F1 program with Jaguar. But then, it inherited Cart and IRL through Cosworth. My point is, these aren't run under the "Ford" banner, so as far as the marketing dept. is concerned, they gain enough benefit from the program to make it worthwhile.
What I'd like to see is for Saab to mount a WRC effort. And Peugeot needs to start selling cars in the U.S. again.
[B]
What about Formula 1 and Jaguar? :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Ok, so Ford inherited the F1 program with Jaguar. But then, it inherited Cart and IRL through Cosworth. My point is, these aren't run under the "Ford" banner, so as far as the marketing dept. is concerned, they gain enough benefit from the program to make it worthwhile.
What I'd like to see is for Saab to mount a WRC effort. And Peugeot needs to start selling cars in the U.S. again.
| jaybird | 10-24-2002 10:04 AM |
[QUOTE]Today Ford owns a controlling share(over 50%) so it would make little sense for Mazda to come in with a WRC car when Ford is already campaigning the Focus. Same thing goes for VW.[/QUOTE]
So I guess it makes little sense for the Citroen team to be running at all since they are "controlled by" Pugeut. That argument is pretty week. In other series you see Porches running against Audis; Chevys against Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles and Buicks; Fords against Jags etc.
Like others have said it's all image and money. I'm guessing most of the companies people are talking about don't feel they will get their money's worth to run in the WRC. It doesn't go along with the image they are selling. Audi is not going to spend all that $$$ to run against cars that sell for less then half of what theirs do.
My guess for next company to compete would be Toyota. they have done it before. They have a couple platforms they could run and aren't in to many other series, but they still have a bad taste in their mouth for WRC. Maybe Honda/Acura, but they would want to go full out and be competitive right out of the gate. That would require big $$$ and they are allready comitted to a buch of other series, not to mention bikes. I don't see other US companies getting in. Could you imagine a WRC Cavalier or Vibe? Then again look at Ford. Is there a series they don't have something in?
So I guess it makes little sense for the Citroen team to be running at all since they are "controlled by" Pugeut. That argument is pretty week. In other series you see Porches running against Audis; Chevys against Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles and Buicks; Fords against Jags etc.
Like others have said it's all image and money. I'm guessing most of the companies people are talking about don't feel they will get their money's worth to run in the WRC. It doesn't go along with the image they are selling. Audi is not going to spend all that $$$ to run against cars that sell for less then half of what theirs do.
My guess for next company to compete would be Toyota. they have done it before. They have a couple platforms they could run and aren't in to many other series, but they still have a bad taste in their mouth for WRC. Maybe Honda/Acura, but they would want to go full out and be competitive right out of the gate. That would require big $$$ and they are allready comitted to a buch of other series, not to mention bikes. I don't see other US companies getting in. Could you imagine a WRC Cavalier or Vibe? Then again look at Ford. Is there a series they don't have something in?
| NTP WRX | 10-24-2002 10:25 AM |
I've wondered why more companies don't compete in WRC as well. Seems to me that there would be far more "trickle down" technology that could improve the street versions of the cars that compete in WRC than you'd ever find from an F1, NASCAR, or
CART car. It would lend [i]a lot[/i] more credibility to the "Win on Sunday; Sell on Monday" mentality. I mean really, when was the last time you saw a rear wheel drive, V8 version of any of the cars that compete in NASCAR that you could buy? 1986?
Neil.
CART car. It would lend [i]a lot[/i] more credibility to the "Win on Sunday; Sell on Monday" mentality. I mean really, when was the last time you saw a rear wheel drive, V8 version of any of the cars that compete in NASCAR that you could buy? 1986?
Neil.
| jprowland | 10-24-2002 02:02 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by NTP WRX [/i]
[B]I mean really, when was the last time you saw a rear wheel drive, V8 version of any of the cars that compete in NASCAR that you could buy? 1986?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Well, hopefully we'll get to see this when the Holden comes to the States next year. I'd guess that's what Pontiac will be running in NASCAR...
[B]I mean really, when was the last time you saw a rear wheel drive, V8 version of any of the cars that compete in NASCAR that you could buy? 1986?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Well, hopefully we'll get to see this when the Holden comes to the States next year. I'd guess that's what Pontiac will be running in NASCAR...
| wistful | 10-24-2002 05:19 PM |
mmm.. Holden. As much as I have a like to ***** on American cars.. "american cars" that we don't get in America are frickin amazing. Holdens, Ford Falcons, Escorts, and the new Focus RS are amazing cars. why don't we get 'em?!? I wonder if they have build quality issues too? speaking of build quality issues, do you think IMprezas in other countries have equally poor paint as we do?
Don
Don
| Brady | 10-24-2002 11:14 PM |
i'm shocked no one has mentioned running a MINI WRC car. that would be freaking sweet!
| supermarkus | 10-25-2002 02:17 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wistful [/i]
[B]speaking of build quality issues, do you think IMprezas in other countries have equally poor paint as we do?
Don [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, as far as I've been told, they're all painted in Japan. As for Ford's US Focus quality control problems, they may not extend to the European cars because they aren't made in the same place. There is apparently a big difference between the parts vendors they use here with the ones they use in Europe.
[B]speaking of build quality issues, do you think IMprezas in other countries have equally poor paint as we do?
Don [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, as far as I've been told, they're all painted in Japan. As for Ford's US Focus quality control problems, they may not extend to the European cars because they aren't made in the same place. There is apparently a big difference between the parts vendors they use here with the ones they use in Europe.
| dmitrik4 | 10-25-2002 02:51 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bjlee [/i]
[B]i'm shocked no one has mentioned running a MINI WRC car. that would be freaking sweet! [/B][/QUOTE]
HELL YEAH. that's what i was thinking too. they had some rally success way back when (IIRC, they owned the monte carlo rally for a few years), and they've used that in their ad push for the new car.
and screw the P5 the protege sedan is the same car but lighter. it's competing very well in Pro-Rally and is REALLY successful in the [URL=http://www.world-challenge.com/2002/standings.html]Speed World Challenge TC series.[/URL]
[B]i'm shocked no one has mentioned running a MINI WRC car. that would be freaking sweet! [/B][/QUOTE]
HELL YEAH. that's what i was thinking too. they had some rally success way back when (IIRC, they owned the monte carlo rally for a few years), and they've used that in their ad push for the new car.
and screw the P5 the protege sedan is the same car but lighter. it's competing very well in Pro-Rally and is REALLY successful in the [URL=http://www.world-challenge.com/2002/standings.html]Speed World Challenge TC series.[/URL]
| aspera | 10-25-2002 07:25 PM |
I like the Neon idea, but I like the Civic idea even more. Honda isn't involved in any motorsport that runs on dirt. They need the learning experience, as a company.
If Honda built a Rallye variant of the Civic Si they could sell AWD versions to consumers. You all know how sought after Rally Golfs are. An AWD Civic Si turbo would bring all of the attention of the Hon-Duh boys to WRC. It would also improve the Honda aftermarket.
Honda has built a 4x4 Civic in the past. Maybe they could get it right this time. They need to build it as a sports car like the Subaru WRX, Mitsubishi EVO, and Nissan Skyline. Honda is in the same group as Mazda and Toyota (no AWD sports car).
If Toyota got back in to WRC, could they use an AWD Celica? Could Honda/Acura use an AWD RSX? That would be a battle.
If Honda built a Rallye variant of the Civic Si they could sell AWD versions to consumers. You all know how sought after Rally Golfs are. An AWD Civic Si turbo would bring all of the attention of the Hon-Duh boys to WRC. It would also improve the Honda aftermarket.
Honda has built a 4x4 Civic in the past. Maybe they could get it right this time. They need to build it as a sports car like the Subaru WRX, Mitsubishi EVO, and Nissan Skyline. Honda is in the same group as Mazda and Toyota (no AWD sports car).
If Toyota got back in to WRC, could they use an AWD Celica? Could Honda/Acura use an AWD RSX? That would be a battle.
| jaybird | 10-26-2002 09:24 AM |
Honda did and still does build an AWD civic, Now it's called the CR-V. I think the used to make AWD accords for JDM and a AWD Accord wagon acouple years over hear. A mini would be cool, but your never gona see it (at least as a full out BMW backed WRC). It's not the same company and it doesn't have the market share.
| aspera | 10-27-2002 01:50 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jaybird [/i]
[B]Honda did and still does build an AWD civic, Now it's called the CR-V. I think the used to make AWD accords for JDM and a AWD Accord wagon acouple years over hear. A mini would be cool, but your never gona see it (at least as a full out BMW backed WRC). It's not the same company and it doesn't have the market share. [/B][/QUOTE]
I totally forgot about the CR-V. I have that "I feel stupid" feeling now.:) But that just means the parts are already in the warehouse. Honda already has an AWD powertrain that is wasted on CR-V owners. It sure would be nice if they used it on the RSX, or Civic Si.
[B]Honda did and still does build an AWD civic, Now it's called the CR-V. I think the used to make AWD accords for JDM and a AWD Accord wagon acouple years over hear. A mini would be cool, but your never gona see it (at least as a full out BMW backed WRC). It's not the same company and it doesn't have the market share. [/B][/QUOTE]
I totally forgot about the CR-V. I have that "I feel stupid" feeling now.:) But that just means the parts are already in the warehouse. Honda already has an AWD powertrain that is wasted on CR-V owners. It sure would be nice if they used it on the RSX, or Civic Si.
| jamz | 10-27-2002 07:35 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by aspera [/i]
[B]I like the Neon idea, but I like the Civic idea even more. Honda isn't involved in any motorsport that runs on dirt. They need the learning experience, as a company.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Well actually they do- they do a hella lot of dirtbike stuff, just no 4-wheeling events. I agree that it would be good for them to start, especially with the new growth of WRC viewing in the US- it will need new fuel (participants) to keep the expansion going.
[B]I like the Neon idea, but I like the Civic idea even more. Honda isn't involved in any motorsport that runs on dirt. They need the learning experience, as a company.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Well actually they do- they do a hella lot of dirtbike stuff, just no 4-wheeling events. I agree that it would be good for them to start, especially with the new growth of WRC viewing in the US- it will need new fuel (participants) to keep the expansion going.
| Thug | 10-27-2002 11:29 AM |
An AWD Civic Si wouldnt be that impressive, assuming it would use the current Si motor. The Si is a torqueless wonder, and you need some torque to get an AWD system moving.
| WRXedUSA | 10-27-2002 12:08 PM |
WRXMASTER
You at BU for School?? How bout the Home of the big "O". Email me. I went there.
As for the factory support in WRC. It is turnign to be that the hatchback is the ideal WRC homoginized car for to be capable on all surfaces. As the 206 has demonstrated. For the following makes, here is conclusion why or why not these makes are into WRC.
VW- the Skoda answer is right. VW is creating a different image.
Skoda- They do make a 4x4 Octavia and it is promoted as the toughest WRC car, and it is.
Honda- They only make LEV FRONT DRIVERS, that is thier specialty and they will not deviate, sunk all $ and racign hope in open wheel.
Mazda- Need to develop Protege, attain FIA specs. Ford interest has nothing to do with it.
Ford- AWD Focus is a dream, but Turbo focus is found 'round the world except in US. This car was meant for WRC application, and as a replacement for the very old Escort Cossie.
Audi- They are still gloating about their success in the 1970's and '80. They feel that they have the top notch AWD system and will not contest.
Lancia- They only make luxury cars now. Intergrale HF is in our dreams, they have no platform to run off of.
Peugeot- It is the largest selling car in Europe so they have to rally, even though they only make a FWD NA car for the street.
GM Makes- What's WRC stand for?? They are about to get blindsided. But remember they own 33% of Fuji.
Subaru- Rally is the core of corporate image, bulletproof AWD and body styles dictacted by rally first, then delivered to the street.
Nissan- They have absolutely no platform to run on.
Citroen- Good call by making the Xsara Kit car a reality, it will win the WRC in 2003. Saxo is a great rally car as well.
Toyota- Matrix or Corolla S woudnt be a bad idea, but after Martini left them fo the '99 Focus WRC, and they had attained a Manufacturers title, why fo any further??
Mistubishi- Their yaw control system on their Lancers are the best innovation they have had. The T.M.E. and GSR Evo's have been cult central around the Pacific Rim.
Soooo...... What about BMW, Vauxhaul, Benz, Saab, and others, Image and $$$$. If you ever ahve seen a Skoda shipping container or rescue truck, you will understand how much money must be involved. The WRC is more of a contest of driver skill, than car capability, some car makers do not want to risk this image.
As for the factory support in WRC. It is turnign to be that the hatchback is the ideal WRC homoginized car for to be capable on all surfaces. As the 206 has demonstrated. For the following makes, here is conclusion why or why not these makes are into WRC.
VW- the Skoda answer is right. VW is creating a different image.
Skoda- They do make a 4x4 Octavia and it is promoted as the toughest WRC car, and it is.
Honda- They only make LEV FRONT DRIVERS, that is thier specialty and they will not deviate, sunk all $ and racign hope in open wheel.
Mazda- Need to develop Protege, attain FIA specs. Ford interest has nothing to do with it.
Ford- AWD Focus is a dream, but Turbo focus is found 'round the world except in US. This car was meant for WRC application, and as a replacement for the very old Escort Cossie.
Audi- They are still gloating about their success in the 1970's and '80. They feel that they have the top notch AWD system and will not contest.
Lancia- They only make luxury cars now. Intergrale HF is in our dreams, they have no platform to run off of.
Peugeot- It is the largest selling car in Europe so they have to rally, even though they only make a FWD NA car for the street.
GM Makes- What's WRC stand for?? They are about to get blindsided. But remember they own 33% of Fuji.
Subaru- Rally is the core of corporate image, bulletproof AWD and body styles dictacted by rally first, then delivered to the street.
Nissan- They have absolutely no platform to run on.
Citroen- Good call by making the Xsara Kit car a reality, it will win the WRC in 2003. Saxo is a great rally car as well.
Toyota- Matrix or Corolla S woudnt be a bad idea, but after Martini left them fo the '99 Focus WRC, and they had attained a Manufacturers title, why fo any further??
Mistubishi- Their yaw control system on their Lancers are the best innovation they have had. The T.M.E. and GSR Evo's have been cult central around the Pacific Rim.
Soooo...... What about BMW, Vauxhaul, Benz, Saab, and others, Image and $$$$. If you ever ahve seen a Skoda shipping container or rescue truck, you will understand how much money must be involved. The WRC is more of a contest of driver skill, than car capability, some car makers do not want to risk this image.
| WRXMaster | 10-27-2002 01:17 PM |
Re: WRXMASTER
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WRXedUSA [/i]
[B]You at BU for School?? How bout the Home of the big "O". Email me. I went there. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yea I go to flight school at baylor. I am trying to be a flight instructor at baylor. Its a good school but waco is boring! Except for cameron park :) The wrx loves those roads threw that park:devil: Oh yea your email link isnt working.
[B]You at BU for School?? How bout the Home of the big "O". Email me. I went there. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yea I go to flight school at baylor. I am trying to be a flight instructor at baylor. Its a good school but waco is boring! Except for cameron park :) The wrx loves those roads threw that park:devil: Oh yea your email link isnt working.
| WRXMaster | 10-27-2002 01:18 PM |
Re: WRXMASTER
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WRXedUSA [/i]
[B]You at BU for School?? How bout the Home of the big "O". Email me. I went there. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yea I go to flight school at baylor. I am trying to be a flight instructor at baylor. Its a good school but waco is boring! Except for cameron park :) The wrx loves those roads threw that park:devil: There is a karting track on I-35 that I am trying to get into. When did you graduate? Oh yea your email link isnt working.
[B]You at BU for School?? How bout the Home of the big "O". Email me. I went there. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yea I go to flight school at baylor. I am trying to be a flight instructor at baylor. Its a good school but waco is boring! Except for cameron park :) The wrx loves those roads threw that park:devil: There is a karting track on I-35 that I am trying to get into. When did you graduate? Oh yea your email link isnt working.
| WRXedUSA | 10-27-2002 01:55 PM |
WRXMASTER
try [email][email protected][/email]
That's funny because I'm getting my Private license certification at UN-Omaha now. BU has a nice hangar out at ACT.
That's funny because I'm getting my Private license certification at UN-Omaha now. BU has a nice hangar out at ACT.
| meebs | 10-27-2002 02:19 PM |
[quote][b]I like the Neon idea, but I like the Civic idea even more. Honda isn't involved in any motorsport that runs on dirt. [/b]
[/quote]
Actually, Honda used to dominate motocross a few years back... I think they still do, but I don't follow it at all anymore.
[quote][b]They need the learning experience, as a company. [/b][/quote]
Ferrari seem to be doing just fine... :)
[/quote]
Actually, Honda used to dominate motocross a few years back... I think they still do, but I don't follow it at all anymore.
[quote][b]They need the learning experience, as a company. [/b][/quote]
Ferrari seem to be doing just fine... :)
| Jewbaru | 10-27-2002 04:23 PM |
Ford competes in, and sponsers more motorsports than any other maker on the Planet. Be it thru Jaguar, Cosworth, or Ford. Hell, they even sponser some SBK races! Personally, I can't think of a single auto racing series where there isn't a Ford, or Ford owned company competing, from the Drag strip, to the rally course.
Peugeot doesn't need to bring there cars back here. They sold for crap, because they were crap. They're current lineup is far from exciting, and they would probably be drowned out by the cheaper US made cars, like the Focus, Taurus, Cavalier, Grand Am, etc. Not to mention the already common place Japanese hatches and coupes.
I think the Impreza is the only car running in the WRC that was built AWD from the ground up. Remember, the EVO is based off of a FWD chassis, and engine layout.
Oh, BTW, I thought GM only held 20% of FHI.
Peugeot doesn't need to bring there cars back here. They sold for crap, because they were crap. They're current lineup is far from exciting, and they would probably be drowned out by the cheaper US made cars, like the Focus, Taurus, Cavalier, Grand Am, etc. Not to mention the already common place Japanese hatches and coupes.
I think the Impreza is the only car running in the WRC that was built AWD from the ground up. Remember, the EVO is based off of a FWD chassis, and engine layout.
Oh, BTW, I thought GM only held 20% of FHI.
| aspera | 10-28-2002 01:28 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by meebs [/i]
[B]
Actually, Honda used to dominate motocross a few years back... I think they still do, but I don't follow it at all anymore.
Ferrari seem to be doing just fine... :) [/B][/QUOTE]
Damn motorcycles make me look like an ass!:) new rule: Cars and trucks count. Motorcycles don't.
Ferrari is not Honda. Few people use a Ferrari as a daily driver. Hondas get driven down gravel roads, and on snow covered streets. Ferrari also competes against different companies in the marketplace. Honda has to worry about losing sales to Kia. I don't think Ferrari does.:)
[B]
Actually, Honda used to dominate motocross a few years back... I think they still do, but I don't follow it at all anymore.
Ferrari seem to be doing just fine... :) [/B][/QUOTE]
Damn motorcycles make me look like an ass!:) new rule: Cars and trucks count. Motorcycles don't.
Ferrari is not Honda. Few people use a Ferrari as a daily driver. Hondas get driven down gravel roads, and on snow covered streets. Ferrari also competes against different companies in the marketplace. Honda has to worry about losing sales to Kia. I don't think Ferrari does.:)
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